Poker Video: No Limit Hold'Em by livebikebart (High Stakes)

Poker with Your Pants On: Episode Two

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Poker with Your Pants On: Episode Two by livebikebart

Bart talks new hands, new opponents, old opponents, but always interesting spots.

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Bart brings his live No-Limit hands from his play in LA's casinos.

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bart hanson livebikebart nlhe ipod friendly hh review hand replayer live hands

Video Details

  • Game: nlhe
  • Stakes: High Stakes
  • 57 minutes long
  • Posted almost 2 years ago

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sprowls

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1 posts
Joined 05/2011

http://www.deucescracked.com/videos/11241-Episode-Two?seek=2738

First of all just wanted to say that I'm really loving this video series. In my play at 2/5NL I've had all of these spots come up and definitely agree with your analysis. On this particular hand you were trying to pinpoint his possible diamond holdings, and I agree with Jd and Td aren't really in his range, but what do you think about pocket nines with 9d. It does seem like a pretty plausible hand that he could have 3 bet preflop to try and take down the dead money. The flop check makes sense, since he probably doesn't want to get check raised there, instead hoping to spike a 9 on the turn, or possible fire the turn if checked around to again. However when the 3rd diamond rolls off, his hand gained some possible showdown value so again I think he could check that on the turn. The only question would be if hes capable of making the value bet on the river, but I think he can be pretty confident no one is checking the nuts to him, so he is really only losing to the Td, which most people would probably fire with as well.

Posted almost 2 years ago

yozman

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18 posts
Joined 10/2009

UGAnation

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303 posts
Joined 01/2010

LOL METH DEALER???



seriously I am going to go ahead and nominate this as the most "interesting" table line up so far.

Great job so far Bart. I am enjoy this unique series even though I have limited live experience. No casinos in my state

Posted almost 2 years ago

neomorf

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1 posts
Joined 07/2009

good videos thanks. in the AKs hand I really loved to watch how you would kill the 8d8x guy if the calls Smile

and i need some information. im coming to vegas in a week. do you have any information about 10-20? where can i play? how strong it is? i played at commerce 10/20 so if u can compare these two i would understand

Posted almost 2 years ago

Chimeni

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93 posts
Joined 04/2009

Brilliant analysis and explanations Bart. DC members, if you want more of this you must watch LATB with Bart in booth. BTW, are any of these hands from LATB (just wondering if the "names" apply to any players I see.

Posted almost 2 years ago

pr0wler

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82 posts
Joined 05/2008

On the last hand, I think a call is correct but I wanted to add a few points to the discussion.

- I don't think AJ with Jd is out of his range at all. If he squeezed AJ preflop in position, then why does he necessarily bet it on an AQJ flop? If we just said that we're willing to check/fold AK on that board, then what exactly is he getting value from with top and bottom? I know he isn't thinking exactly like that, but the fact that someone is willing to fold TPTK + gutshot to 1 bet illustrates the 'scariness' of a particular flop and I feel like he will pot control AJ here some portion of the time.

- IMO, his river bet is very polarizing. As mentioned earlier by Bart, this type of 2/3ish pot bet (let alone in a 3-bet pot) is very scary and usually indicative of a very strong hand, or a bluff. When he bets that much, I think we can discount a lot of 9d type hands because he himself is worried about J/Td and in his eyes is prolly only getting value from 8d and worse. Based on Bart's description, this guy probably isn't even good enough to merge his value range and make this sizing with 9d/8d etc. When live players show up with 3rd nut diamond type hands, I find they tend to bet smaller here in order to pot control/extract value from marginal hands.

Since we can discount the Td based on the analysis in the video, and 9d and below because of preflop action/bet sizing, he pretty much has the few combos of Jd or crap. I think the combos of random crap he is bluffing with here outweigh the Jd combos by a longshot so a call is definitely +EV....wp.

Posted almost 2 years ago

Steppin Razor

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Section 9
2237 posts
Joined 12/2009

Time Link to 00:45:34

Did you forget 9x9d for him or do you think he doesn't 3bet prf with it? Not that it being in there really affects anything.

Posted almost 2 years ago

MaoMao

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93 posts
Joined 11/2010

Time Link to 00:52:07

Thank you for this wonderful video, Please explain why you name the guy FartHead ?

Ok a more serious question, what do you think it is the appropriate bankroll for somebody winning 100NL 6max at 5bb/100 over half million hands to play 5/10 live ?

Posted almost 2 years ago

DiggerTheDog

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696 posts
Joined 09/2008

Time Link to 00:46:05

I like your analysis for the AK hand but I think you should consider turning your bluffcatcher into a bluff.
If we assume that all that you say is true - and that neither opponent has Jx of D or very rarely.
And you believe from previous showdowns that he is not betting many low diamonds.
And you dont have strongish reads on how stationary the Asian recreational player is...

I kinda like the idea of check/raising maybe check shipping the river rather than just calling.
Reasoning being - given its rare that either player has nut 2nd holding.
then russians range is one pairs turning into a bluff/ thin value bets
Asian recreational bluff-catchers/give up hands/ very rare superslowplay
then the only difference between c/c and c/r is that sometimes we are being thin value bet when we thought it unlikely and overcalled by asian bluffcatcher diamonds - and we likely can get those to fold also by c/r.

Posted almost 2 years ago

threads13

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1781 posts
Joined 03/2008

Time Link to 00:50:20

I was driving home from the poker room last night thinking "I think I need to stop chopping. I can probably outplay most players in that situation above the rake (which is smaller in the games I play in) and it may go on tilt."

Good timing for this video.

Posted almost 2 years ago

livebikebart

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276 posts
Joined 03/2008

http://www.deucescracked.com/videos/11241-Episode-Two?seek=2738

First of all just wanted to say that I'm really loving this video series. In my play at 2/5NL I've had all of these spots come up and definitely agree with your analysis. On this particular hand you were trying to pinpoint his possible diamond holdings, and I agree with Jd and Td aren't really in his range, but what do you think about pocket nines with 9d. It does seem like a pretty plausible hand that he could have 3 bet preflop to try and take down the dead money. The flop check makes sense, since he probably doesn't want to get check raised there, instead hoping to spike a 9 on the turn, or possible fire the turn if checked around to again. However when the 3rd diamond rolls off, his hand gained some possible showdown value so again I think he could check that on the turn. The only question would be if hes capable of making the value bet on the river, but I think he can be pretty confident no one is checking the nuts to him, so he is really only losing to the Td, which most people would probably fire with as well.



What I failed to say in the video after watching that hand again, is that he QUICKLY bet $500, as if he gave it no thought. That's why I decided to dismiss those types of thin value bets with the 9 or 8d.

Posted almost 2 years ago

livebikebart

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276 posts
Joined 03/2008

good videos thanks. in the AKs hand I really loved to watch how you would kill the 8d8x guy if the calls Smile

and i need some information. im coming to vegas in a week. do you have any information about 10-20? where can i play? how strong it is? i played at commerce 10/20 so if u can compare these two i would understand



My suggestion would be to stay at Commerce. The 10-20 is the absolute best when most of the pros are at the WSOP.

Posted almost 2 years ago

livebikebart

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276 posts
Joined 03/2008

Brilliant analysis and explanations Bart. DC members, if you want more of this you must watch LATB with Bart in booth. BTW, are any of these hands from LATB (just wondering if the "names" apply to any players I see.



No,

But episode 4 is planned to be a live action video of hands taken from the night I won big on LATB.

Posted almost 2 years ago

livebikebart

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276 posts
Joined 03/2008

Thank you for this wonderful video, Please explain why you name the guy FartHead ?

Ok a more serious question, what do you think it is the appropriate bankroll for somebody winning 100NL 6max at 5bb/100 over half million hands to play 5/10 live ?



That's really hard to say. I played 2000 hours of 5-10 and never went on more than a 7k downswing...that is until my most recent 150 hours where I lost 18k straight. I think you can definitely take a shot with 10K and chances are that if you are good you'll run it up to 25 before you run it down to 0.

Posted almost 2 years ago

livebikebart

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276 posts
Joined 03/2008

I like your analysis for the AK hand but I think you should consider turning your bluffcatcher into a bluff.
If we assume that all that you say is true - and that neither opponent has Jx of D or very rarely.
And you believe from previous showdowns that he is not betting many low diamonds.
And you dont have strongish reads on how stationary the Asian recreational player is...

I kinda like the idea of check/raising maybe check shipping the river rather than just calling.
Reasoning being - given its rare that either player has nut 2nd holding.
then russians range is one pairs turning into a bluff/ thin value bets
Asian recreational bluff-catchers/give up hands/ very rare superslowplay
then the only difference between c/c and c/r is that sometimes we are being thin value bet when we thought it unlikely and overcalled by asian bluffcatcher diamonds - and we likely can get those to fold also by c/r.



I guess I just thought because he bet the river with little to no thought that he almost never had a value hand. My call looks super strong and I just don't see that guy in the middle over calling with less than the Td. I think that your idea has merit though. It may be the most optimal way to play the river.

Posted almost 2 years ago

TheLooool

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10 posts
Joined 06/2010

DiggerTheDog

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696 posts
Joined 09/2008

bart - re AK bluff catch.

It really is an interesting hand.
umm leave aside what you should have done.

If Asian recreational player had like 8d
I am undecided whether I think his fold is worse than russians bluff...I think it prolly is.

I think when you just call the river - you rarely have a diamond better than 8d.
He has to put you squarely on 99 with a diamond.
Obviously if you got to the river with Jd say KJ with d - you might check raise but you never just call the river.
It is highly likely if you had the T of diamond that you would either lead turn or river but if somehow you did check - surely he would think that it would be to check raise.
So when you just call - your range has to be bluffcatchers.
Then if he was to consider relative hand strength - he might be able to surmise that you might view top two or a turn or rivered set as a bluff catcher given russians line makes no sense for value.
So I think with something like 6x or better of diamonds it must be an overcall.
particularly if he credits you with being a good handreader/player or better.
This is particularly true when its $500 to win what $1800+ by that stage.

Which makes me think that a river check raise with the bottom end of your bluffcatchers is clearly better.

fwiw I dont think I would have seen it myself in game but with time I think it makes sense

Posted almost 2 years ago

marcel23

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50 posts
Joined 12/2010

In the last hand where you both chop the pot with 8 10 and 9 10

If you were in his position ie utg, and he was last to act and he bet 400 on the river, would you call it to chop?

Posted almost 2 years ago

marcel23

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50 posts
Joined 12/2010

Also, for those who play live poker more and appreciate a non online poker coaching approach, can you make a video for us to watch everyday ;-)

We definitely need more live poker material. I believe thats whats lacking from deuces cracked.

Posted almost 2 years ago

terp

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1996 posts
Joined 01/2008

Time Link to 00:33:48

definitely a live poker video when you call it 'big slick suited'

Heart

nice job bart

Posted almost 2 years ago

livebikebart

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276 posts
Joined 03/2008

In the last hand where you both chop the pot with 8 10 and 9 10

If you were in his position ie utg, and he was last to act and he bet 400 on the river, would you call it to chop?



I would never have called the turn.

Posted almost 2 years ago

CajunDragon

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27 posts
Joined 12/2009

Yes, I'm leaving Vegas and going to LA for the whole WSOP. I'm getting tore up here! Smile

Posted almost 2 years ago

CajunDragon

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27 posts
Joined 12/2009

Time Link to 00:48:10

I was fricking appalled in LA when the I chopped and the dealer kept my $2. You just get your money back in Vegas. What about the decision to not ever chop... Most books (Carro, Doyle etc) say you should maintain a happy, personable image at the table. Is it better to not chop/piss someone off and have them go after you, or have them want to be your friend and enjoy your presence?

Posted almost 2 years ago

mkalish1

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118 posts
Joined 08/2010

Time Link to 00:56:04

Love the video, I was confused on the logic for the last hand though.

I agree with you that he spazzed out. But I was confused why we are trying to get the spazzer to fold with the over-pot sized barrels. Were you saying you think you're good more than 50% of the time when called? For a bit there I thought it sounded like you were arguing that you were repping a 7 and he could fold his 10 sometimes.

Posted almost 2 years ago

fifilein

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54 posts
Joined 11/2009

i love this series, i just recently started playing live (some local 1.5/3 and 3/6) and it can be pretty fun, especially when there are like 10k usd on the table for the 3/6 game with some nice wealthy whales.

i really would like to see at least one (maybe even two) episodes on how to "tag" players. for some reason i find it pretty easy with online poker, but super hard for live.

u mentioned something like "missing value bets" shows how good players are. what do u pay attention to when u come up with your TAG, Meth Dealer, .... and what player types do u use live?

Posted almost 2 years ago

marcel23

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50 posts
Joined 12/2010

In live, when blinds are 1/2$ and people are sitting with 200-500$ behind them. Would you suggest limping every pot (when you have something like 56 or k2s etc), in a game when a lot of preflop action goes unraised just to see a cheap flop? (something that never happens online)

Posted almost 2 years ago

livebikebart

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276 posts
Joined 03/2008

Love the video, I was confused on the logic for the last hand though.

I agree with you that he spazzed out. But I was confused why we are trying to get the spazzer to fold with the over-pot sized barrels. Were you saying you think you're good more than 50% of the time when called? For a bit there I thought it sounded like you were arguing that you were repping a 7 and he could fold his 10 sometimes.



That's exactly what I was arguing--My hand should be a 7 a lot of the time here, I knew he had a T and I was trying to get him to fold out a chop.

Posted almost 2 years ago

livebikebart

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276 posts
Joined 03/2008

i love this series, i just recently started playing live (some local 1.5/3 and 3/6) and it can be pretty fun, especially when there are like 10k usd on the table for the 3/6 game with some nice wealthy whales.

i really would like to see at least one (maybe even two) episodes on how to "tag" players. for some reason i find it pretty easy with online poker, but super hard for live.

u mentioned something like "missing value bets" shows how good players are. what do u pay attention to when u come up with your TAG, Meth Dealer, .... and what player types do u use live?



Well the Meth Dealer was a huge tweeker--shaking and mumbling under his breath constantly. TAG guys will play tight preflop but will recognize certain types of texture to correctly Cbet. They also will raise and check raise with draws. Most players fall into the loose passive category which are the easiest to play against.

Posted almost 2 years ago

livebikebart

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276 posts
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In live, when blinds are 1/2$ and people are sitting with 200-500$ behind them. Would you suggest limping every pot (when you have something like 56 or k2s etc), in a game when a lot of preflop action goes unraised just to see a cheap flop? (something that never happens online)



I definitely wouldn't limp every pot but you should open up your overlimping range with position. You have to take into account the rake structure in these small games because entering small pots will eat up your winrate.

Posted almost 2 years ago

livebikebart

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276 posts
Joined 03/2008

I was fricking appalled in LA when the I chopped and the dealer kept my $2. You just get your money back in Vegas. What about the decision to not ever chop... Most books (Carro, Doyle etc) say you should maintain a happy, personable image at the table. Is it better to not chop/piss someone off and have them go after you, or have them want to be your friend and enjoy your presence?



There are so many people in my player pool that it really doesn't matter if they like me or not. I think that there is much more immediate value in winning a big pot blind vs blind than trying to have everyone at the table like me.

Posted almost 2 years ago

cam167

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853 posts
Joined 09/2009

Hey Bart have you thought off doing an episode with LIMON as a co-host?
could be effing awesome imo

Great series so far btw.

Posted almost 2 years ago

gwjones00

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5 posts
Joined 01/2011

Time Link to 00:46:02

Interesting hand analysis. Why would you discount a 3 bet squeeze by Russian Kid with a 99 with the 9 of diamonds? Do you just not think that it would be possible that he would 3 bet a 99 with all the dead money in the pot?

Posted almost 2 years ago

livebikebart

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276 posts
Joined 03/2008

Interesting hand analysis. Why would you discount a 3 bet squeeze by Russian Kid with a 99 with the 9 of diamonds? Do you just not think that it would be possible that he would 3 bet a 99 with all the dead money in the pot?



99 is definitely possible I don't think that I ever accounted for it in the video. However, what I failed to talk about in the video was his bet timing on the river. He insta bet 1/3 pot, without a second thought. I think someone there with the 9d at least thinks about his sizing.

Posted almost 2 years ago

beachbum

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101 posts
Joined 01/2008

That's really hard to say. I played 2000 hours of 5-10 and never went on more than a 7k downswing...that is until my most recent 150 hours where I lost 18k straight. I think you can definitely take a shot with 10K and chances are that if you are good you'll run it up to 25 before you run it down to 0.



Hey Bart, love your series so far. I'm in the LA area and considering playing live a bit more to spread out my bankroll and my risk while continuing to play online (while I can). I know this is a topic beat to death, but it seems like there's quite a lot of difference in what people estimate for live winrates and bankroll requirements. Since you're an LA live pro you probably have a better idea of winrates and BR requirements specifically for LA cardrooms than most people.

I was listening to your podcast "Limon III" and he mentioned something like the 2/5 game isn't even worth playing because if you win 5 pots per hour, you get raked like $30/hr and end up with a profit of ~$10/hr. This hourly expectation seems a bit off. Should I really expect to win 5 pots per hour? If my VPIP is 25% and I'm getting dealt 28 hands/hr, that means I'd win 5 out of 7 pots I enter.

I'm not looking for exact numbers but roughly what hourly rates should a solidly winning NL200 online reg expect to win at 2/5, 3/5, 5/5, and/or 5/10? Also, how many BB's for a BR would you consider being adequately rolled for each limit? The game I'd look to start in would be the 2/5 at Hustler, but the buy in is $100-$300, and this very short stack structure would seem to make for a smaller hourly rate.

Posted almost 2 years ago

PutMyRobeOnRITE

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193 posts
Joined 06/2009

The drop in Vegas is 10% up to 4 or 5 bucks, + 1 dollar for jackpot. Depending on the house they don't take a jackpot if it's less than 4 handed even if the pot hits 10 dollars. Some places use .50 cent pieces for 10% at increments of 5 dollars. In higher stakes game they may take 1 dollar at 20, 2 at 40, 3 at 60 etc...but I don't play high, so I'm not exact on that.

Posted almost 2 years ago

dkarius

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19 posts
Joined 07/2010

On the win rates:
I would expect a solid NL200 regular, who can successfully dumb down their game, can expect to win at least 5bb per hour at a standard 2/5 game or even 5/10 game after making the proper adjustments. That rate is considering a 100bb buyin in both. In the deeper games you would expect the win rate to go up. Over time I would expect it to go up. However, if I was planning on completely shifting from being an online professional to being a live professional player then I would probably cut that estimate in half and have enough bankroll to weather some decent break even periods.

With that said, no matter what you bankroll is I would absolutely start at 2/5 even if you play higher than 100NL. There will be an adjustment, to several things that are different between the games. First, getting used to how much slower it is, but if you can focus you can learn a ton about players much faster. Second, adjusting to all the limp/calling and limp/folding and the strange ranges that people have. Third, adjusting to the passivity (especially preflop), Bart's totally right the average non-professional players at 2/5 and 5/10 are probably around %30 vpip with a 5% pfr and a 2% 3bet (QQ+ I doubt even 50% 3bet AK). Four, adjusting to the instant money instead of it being a number in an online account you constantly have all this cash and know how much you win/lose in a given day, which can have big implications on tilt. Five, not tilting when you aren't winning in a game filled with some of the worst players you have seen.

Based on those thoughts and a few others, I would suggest a 20 bi minimum if it's not going to be your only source of income. You could tweak it down to less once you are used to live players and games. However, you have to remember it is easily possible even at a big win rate to go on a 200 to 300 hour break even stretch and if you are a professional player there are several more considerations for your bi requirements based on expected win rate. If it is going to be your sole source of income then I would actually suggest double that.

Rake:
Most of the 5/10 games in Vegas are raked on time, usually 6 to 7 a down (every 30 minutes). Of the 2/5 games I believe that the Venetian still has the best rake but it also usually has the toughest games. I think the rake is $1 for every $20 in the pot with a max of $4 bucks (no bad beat jp drop).

In other locations, I could spend a few pages explaining the raking methodolgy. I think in most "legal games" the rake is almost always capped. However, in many underground games the rake often isn't capped.

For example, at one casino, they drop $1 every hand for the bad beat, and they pull the standard rake schedule if 1 player limps in, but if the blinds are stolen then only the $1 is taken. Of the standard drop, they take 10% of the pot up to $5. Based on this rake at 5/10, the table pulls down about $175 an hour.

I hope that helps.

Posted almost 2 years ago

MaoMao

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93 posts
Joined 11/2010

On the win rates:
I would expect a solid NL200 regular, who can successfully dumb down their game, can expect to win at least 5bb per hour at a standard 2/5 game or even 5/10 game after making the proper adjustments. That rate is considering a 100bb buyin in both. In the deeper games you would expect the win rate to go up. Over time I would expect it to go up. However, if I was planning on completely shifting from being an online professional to being a live professional player then I would probably cut that estimate in half and have enough bankroll to weather some decent break even periods.

With that said, no matter what you bankroll is I would absolutely start at 2/5 even if you play higher than 100NL. There will be an adjustment, to several things that are different between the games. First, getting used to how much slower it is, but if you can focus you can learn a ton about players much faster. Second, adjusting to all the limp/calling and limp/folding and the strange ranges that people have. Third, adjusting to the passivity (especially preflop), Bart's totally right the average non-professional players at 2/5 and 5/10 are probably around %30 vpip with a 5% pfr and a 2% 3bet (QQ+ I doubt even 50% 3bet AK). Four, adjusting to the instant money instead of it being a number in an online account you constantly have all this cash and know how much you win/lose in a given day, which can have big implications on tilt. Five, not tilting when you aren't winning in a game filled with some of the worst players you have seen.

Based on those thoughts and a few others, I would suggest a 20 bi minimum if it's not going to be your only source of income. You could tweak it down to less once you are used to live players and games. However, you have to remember it is easily possible even at a big win rate to go on a 200 to 300 hour break even stretch and if you are a professional player there are several more considerations for your bi requirements based on expected win rate. If it is going to be your sole source of income then I would actually suggest double that.

Rake:
Most of the 5/10 games in Vegas are raked on time, usually 6 to 7 a down (every 30 minutes). Of the 2/5 games I believe that the Venetian still has the best rake but it also usually has the toughest games. I think the rake is $1 for every $20 in the pot with a max of $4 bucks (no bad beat jp drop).

In other locations, I could spend a few pages explaining the raking methodolgy. I think in most "legal games" the rake is almost always capped. However, in many underground games the rake often isn't capped.

For example, at one casino, they drop $1 every hand for the bad beat, and they pull the standard rake schedule if 1 player limps in, but if the blinds are stolen then only the $1 is taken. Of the standard drop, they take 10% of the pot up to $5. Based on this rake at 5/10, the table pulls down about $175 an hour.

I hope that helps.



Thank you so much for this imformation

Posted almost 2 years ago

MaoMao

Avatar for MaoMao

93 posts
Joined 11/2010

Thank you Bart for this great video and Thank you for answering my question. On the other hand I have a very interesting live hand from last night. I should post it at the FR form, but I want to know what you guy make of it.
Its 2/5 $300 CAPed Live at the Hustler Casino
I'm UTG with $1100 stack limp with As6s. The table is fairly passive, not a lot 3beting pre. I have decent respect from all the players since I have been crashing them for the past hours.
MP3 called with $300ish stack, He is a chubby kid at least 300 pounds, who has been playing his phone for the whole time, I saw him limp calling a 40 Rise and then check and fold.
Cutoff called with $200 ish stack
Button Called with a $300 ish stack,
Small Blind called with a 250 ish stack.
Big Blind with $200 ish then rise it to $15, he is a old man who has been playing his cards face up, wont lay down top pair+ regardless of action. He plays extreme straight forward.
I called and everybody else called.
Flop is 4d 5h 6c rainbow.
Small blind check, Big Blind check
I decide to test the water, plan to fold to a rise. I bet $30 into the pot of $70( raked a $5)
To my amazing surprise,
MP3 called
Cutoff called
Button called
Small Blind called
And big blind thought about it for a bit and called.
Everyfuckingbody called !!!!!!!!
I was like man I'm done with this hand.
The Turn is Ad, bring a backdoor flash draw, gives me two pair.

Small blind checks,
The big blind (old man, original riser), Bet $40. I just know he got AK or AQ. He has been playing very straight forward. He bets when he hits and fold when he miss. Rarely rise and never saw him bluff.
I decide to call and see what happens.
Here is the most interesting part:
The MP3 reach over to the deal's drawer or pan (where he holds all the chips, button and signs) and grabs the all-in sign and place it in front of him, without even saying anything and continuing to play with his phone. ( He is all in for $270, I need $230 to call)
Cutoff fold
Button fold
Small blind fold
Big Blind thought about it and put his remaining 100ish stack in the middle.
Action goes back to me
The pot is $250+3*40 +$130+$230= 730
And cost me $230 to call getting roughly 3:1.

What do I do ?????

Posted almost 2 years ago

beachbum

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101 posts
Joined 01/2008

Thanks dkarius, good info. How much do you think the buy-in amounts affect the expected winrates though? Like I mentioned in my post, I think the Hustler 2/5 game has a BI of $100-$300. Almost nowhere in the LA area can you find a game at a cardroom lower than 5/10 where you can buy in for 100bb.

Posted almost 2 years ago

MaoMao

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93 posts
Joined 11/2010

Thanks dkarius, good info. How much do you think the buy-in amounts affect the expected winrates though? Like I mentioned in my post, I think the Hustler 2/5 game has a BI of $100-$300. Almost nowhere in the LA area can you find a game at a cardroom lower than 5/10 where you can buy in for 100bb.



True... so if you want to make a living on poker playing live. 5-10 is the least in L.A..

Posted almost 2 years ago

dkarius

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19 posts
Joined 07/2010

The deeper the average buy-in the more post flop decisions players have to make. If you are better than your opponents at making turn and river decisions then your win rate can go up quite a bit the deeper the game gets.

To be honest, I have no experience with 20-60bb Buy-in games and any information I gave you would really only be a guess. I might compare it to a typical $1/2 or $1/$3 game for a guess on win rate.

You might consider starting with 50bb at 5/10 instead. It will have a bit more of a swing to it, but would probably be more profitable than 2/5 with a 20-60bb game.

Posted almost 2 years ago

dkarius

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19 posts
Joined 07/2010


The pot is $250+3*40 +$130+$230= 730
And cost me $230 to call getting roughly 3:1.

What do I do ?????



Well it depends on your read of the situation. I'll agree that you probably have the old man beat. But what hands is the "chubby kid" shoving all-in for. I think we can agree he is very rarely bluffing in this spot. So, what hands is he shoving AI for value? If it includes worse two pair hands then it is positive EV to call. If it doesn't include any two pair hands then a call is negative EV. Obviously, if you think the kid is moving AI with worse than two pair the EV gets even better.

I would encourage you to stick the hand into poker stove. (include the old man's AK). See what combinations of hands give you at least 25% equity. See what combinations give you better than 25% equity. (i.e. the call is positive EV).

BTW, even though you are in a passive game, based on the average stack sizes I think the preflop limp with A6s from UTG is negative EV. You don't have the type of implied odds that make that hand profitable from early position. Tight is still right in many situations.

Also, I don't find it surprising at all that every player called the flop bet. I see this all the time even at 5/10. Even though it is a rainbow board that flop hits a ton of limp/calling hands.

Good luck

Posted almost 2 years ago

MaoMao

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93 posts
Joined 11/2010

Well it depends on your read of the situation. I'll agree that you probably have the old man beat. But what hands is the "chubby kid" shoving all-in for. I think we can agree he is very rarely bluffing in this spot. So, what hands is he shoving AI for value? If it includes worse two pair hands then it is positive EV to call. If it doesn't include any two pair hands then a call is negative EV. Obviously, if you think the kid is moving AI with worse than two pair the EV gets even better.

I would encourage you to stick the hand into poker stove. (include the old man's AK). See what combinations of hands give you at least 25% equity. See what combinations give you better than 25% equity. (i.e. the call is positive EV).

BTW, even though you are in a passive game, based on the average stack sizes I think the preflop limp with A6s from UTG is negative EV. You don't have the type of implied odds that make that hand profitable from early position. Tight is still right in many situations.

Also, I don't find it surprising at all that every player called the flop bet. I see this all the time even at 5/10. Even though it is a rainbow board that flop hits a ton of limp/calling hands.

Good luck



Thank you dkarius:
I dont put him on 2pair or set. I think he would be smart enough to rise it on the flop given how many people are in the pot. I put him on made straight like 78 or 23 and huge draws that just pick up a flash draw.
I give him 12 combos of 78 and 4 combos of 23( since he would rise a button straight sometimes for protection) 4 combos of huge draws( pair plus draw).
I run it up I only have 11% equity.
On the other hand, I think limping utg is close. Right is tight does apply here.

Thank you again.

I will pm you the result

Posted almost 2 years ago

reasons14

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3 posts
Joined 05/2008

I like your analysis for the AK hand but I think you should consider turning your bluffcatcher into a bluff.
If we assume that all that you say is true - and that neither opponent has Jx of D or very rarely.
And you believe from previous showdowns that he is not betting many low diamonds.
And you dont have strongish reads on how stationary the Asian recreational player is...

I kinda like the idea of check/raising maybe check shipping the river rather than just calling.
Reasoning being - given its rare that either player has nut 2nd holding.
then russians range is one pairs turning into a bluff/ thin value bets
Asian recreational bluff-catchers/give up hands/ very rare superslowplay
then the only difference between c/c and c/r is that sometimes we are being thin value bet when we thought it unlikely and overcalled by asian bluffcatcher diamonds - and we likely can get those to fold also by c/r.




i think check ship is bad on the riv, seems like a check min raise would be better. asian guy always folds and you dont risk your whole stack. Dont know if check min raise is better than a call though

BTW THIS SERIES IS AWESOME!!! KEEPEM COMING DC!!

Posted almost 2 years ago

hank

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15 posts
Joined 05/2010

That's really hard to say. I played 2000 hours of 5-10 and never went on more than a 7k downswing...that is until my most recent 150 hours where I lost 18k straight. I think you can definitely take a shot with 10K and chances are that if you are good you'll run it up to 25 before you run it down to 0.



this is what we pay for?

jk bart. u da man!

Posted almost 2 years ago

hank

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15 posts
Joined 05/2010

My suggestion would be to stay at Commerce. The 10-20 is the absolute best when most of the pros are at the WSOP.



do u really make enough as video boy to give out this info?

Posted almost 2 years ago

hank

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15 posts
Joined 05/2010

Hey Bart have you thought off doing an episode with LIMON as a co-host?
could be effing awesome imo

Great series so far btw.



LDO. they should just play HU and charge $1000 an episode. (or get some decent sponsors and GIVE IT AWAY NOW chilli peppers style)

Posted almost 2 years ago

ananas

Avatar for ananas

3 posts
Joined 06/2011

Thank you dkarius:
I dont put him on 2pair or set. I think he would be smart enough to rise it on the flop given how many people are in the pot. I put him on made straight like 78 or 23 and huge draws that just pick up a flash draw.
I give him 12 combos of 78 and 4 combos of 23( since he would rise a button straight sometimes for protection) 4 combos of huge draws( pair plus draw).
I run it up I only have 11% equity.
On the other hand, I think limping utg is close. Right is tight does apply here.

Thank you again.

I will pm you the result


I too wanna know the result post it pls Wink

Posted almost 2 years ago

ananas

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3 posts
Joined 06/2011

Realize these hands were taken from a past deuce plays episode, were the hands for the 1st ep too?

Posted almost 2 years ago

chuck651

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1342 posts
Joined 11/2010

in the Q10s hand what do you think about 3 betting the uber nit?

Posted almost 2 years ago

chuck651

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1342 posts
Joined 11/2010

Do you think on the AKhh 4 flush river hand vs. the asian rec and the russian, would it be better to raise in a vacuum given the read that the russian can't really have a high diamond to insure that the asian rec folds a low to medium strength diamond? Obviously he folded the 8d in this situation but i think he folds much more often when we put in a raise to like 1200 here. If it was heads up obviously we just call because the russian is super polarized and won't bet for value without the 9d+ which he rarely has anyways so bluff catching is the far superior play.

Posted almost 2 years ago

MRDORSEY

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5 posts
Joined 06/2010

Well, the K was a really good river card for you because if any other card comes out other than A,K,J you lose.

Posted almost 2 years ago

tripleh

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1 posts
Joined 10/2011

Time Link to 00:43:54

Why can't he have 9d9x? Or less likely JTdd with a royal where maybe he can't bet turn cause there is nothing that can look him up?

Posted over 1 year ago

soleztis

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DC Dalai Lama
1019 posts
Joined 09/2010

Time Link to 00:06:06

Bart,

Even though you said you don't want to barrel these boards, you bet, hoping to get through the blinds, and not expecting limpers to check a K. If you expect limpers c/c'ing range to not include K's wouldn't this encourage barreling most turns?

Posted about 1 year ago

livebikebart

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276 posts
Joined 03/2008

Yes. But in this case when the 9 pairs I'm either ahead of a straight draw, he is not folding a K or he has tripped up with 9s.

Posted about 1 year ago

dummyhyphy

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9 posts
Joined 08/2008

ccheiden

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467 posts
Joined 06/2009

leslieweizen

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4 posts
Joined 02/2011

Time Link to 00:18:43

I like raising bigger on the flop so you can just shove turn. As is you are almost giving him odds to call turn with a fd.

Posted 4 months ago

Pittsburgh

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5 posts
Joined 11/2012

Time Link to 00:43:15

Good analysis, but you missed an Obvious one. He could very easily have KJo with the Jd. where he checks flop, then turn because of the one liner to the straight. Then he makes the Nuts on the river. It worked out and the thought process is HUGELY important. But KJ in that spot makes PERFECT sense.

Posted 3 months ago



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