General Poker Discussion Poker Forums

I think some of you guys are blaming the wrong people. You should blame the poker sites. If the claims FBI is making turn out to be correct then the management of FT, PS and UB really fucked up.

For sure. If you read the indictment (found here: http://www.scribd.com/doc/53107543/Indictment-DOJ-vs-Scheinberg-Bitar-Tom-et-al) you'll quickly realize the fraud charges are no joke and the fact that FTP, Stars, et al were circumventing the UIGEA laws from 2006 (this is of course open to debate) in the eyes of the DOJ is NO JOKE.

I think american players are getting what they deserve. Their selfishness and lack of capacity to think beyond their own short term interest was mind numbing. I include 2p2 in this infamous group. They were unable, an unwilling, to use their big audience and nfluence in any serious effort to get things done. I made a thread expressing my concerns about this months ago that got locked http://www.deucescracked.com/forums/4-General-Discussion/topics/231751-2p2-forums-going-down-the#post_1907391 and now the facts are saying I was right.

You guys got what you deserve. Stop whining like little bitches.

gtfo with this, seriously. How long do you think the feds were onto FPT, Stars, and UB? All of the sites catering to US players were going to be squeezed out of the US market in light of the recent charges brought against them, regardless of poker regulation in the US.

Stand on your pulpit some other time. A ton of DC people have a lot of money in limbo, and this is the last thing they need to hear right now.

I suppose you could view it like Prohibition in the 20s...

It was illegal to drink or whatever, and yet people still did it. Eventually the Gov. realized how much everybody wanted to drink and just let em do it.

We're just gonna go through a poker prohibition period, maybe. Then the Gov. is gonna realize how much everybody wants to play poker and they'll just let us do it.

...maybe

LOL, of course they were circumventing the UIGEA. They did it so you, American players, could deposit, play and get paid.

If you think people is going to believe you didn't know they circumvented the UIGEA then you are just dumb.

I think some of you guys are blaming the wrong people. You should blame the poker sites. If the claims FBI is making turn out to be correct then the management of FT, PS and UB really fucked up.

Well they didn't really have too many alternatives to let U.S. players transfer money on and off the sites, did they? If they hadn't done it the way they aparrently did it Americans would not have had the chance to play poker for the last 4-5 years at all.
As long as all of you are able to get your money I think we can't really blame the sites.

Unfortunately in Austria you are allowed to play only on sites from the state-controlled company (win2day) afaik

while that may be true they dont really care as full tilt pro and friend of mine markus golser was under investigation and found not guilty

Most Americans are starting to realize how wrong things have gone in this country. That is why the Tea Parties arose. When hundreds of thousands of people are protesting in the streets, you can bet that there are a lot of people who feel displeased with the direction of the country. A recent poll put the number who thought the country was going in the wrong direction at 70 percent. Still, I doubt that things will change until there is a total system breakdown because there are too many people and corporations with too much power invested in the current system. I never thought I would leave this country but now, I think that I am 80 percent to move. Some people on here have asked what the upside of this poker crackdown is. i believe that the upside is that if you move to somewhere else, you will not be here when the dollar collapses and that currency crisis is going to be a total disaster in which most people will lose almost everything. It is really so sad for a country that was supposed to be built on liberty. Now, the USA is nowhere near free, let alone the freest. Even China allows people to play poker! What a day!

v good post sir!!! the land of the free my arse. but...that aside laws are laws!

Krantz on the QJ's Ustream feed right now discussing Boom:

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/day-2-qj-live-show

Krantz on the QJ's Ustream feed right now discussing Boom:

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/day-2-qj-live-show

they're STILL going? epic imo

I just won 50k in play chips on FT. God this is depressing.....lol

Well they didn't really have too many alternatives to let U.S. players transfer money on and off the sites, did they? If they hadn't done it the way they aparrently did it Americans would not have had the chance to play poker for the last 4-5 years at all.
As long as all of you are able to get your money I think we can't really blame the sites.

As fizzo and trapeze both point out, there was no way for the poker sites to accommodate U.S. players without circumventing the UIGEA.

I play exclusively on Absolute Poker and I'm from the US. Anyone know if and when it will be shut down to US players?

I think some of you guys are blaming the wrong people. You should blame the poker sites. If the claims FBI is making turn out to be correct then the management of FT, PS and UB really fucked up.

Oliver, I don't agree with this. The sites would't have had to set up fake companies and deceive the banks about the purpose of money if the UIEGA would not have been passed.

If you leave something unregulated or try to ban/prohibit it without undertanding what it is about, then it's only a matter of time until illegal activity happens.. see trading etc which is money on a much larger scale than some offshore poker sites. as a government, you should try to set up some rules and not have no rules and then just shut everything down. Online poker is a logical evolutionary step and it just shows that the people in power have absolutely no idea what they are doing.. which you can now argue of course is just a function of the electorate being mostly illiterate which you then can use to argue about democracy as a form to run a state and that the profession of a politican is actually a pretty big desing flaw because in these very complex times you will *always* have to rely on someone telling you how to word the laws you want to pass. Follow the whole Dodd-Frank deaster and you get the drift.. and if the government fails when a piece of regulations has to be passed with such a huge significance, then you can safely assume they will mostly fail at other things of much lesser importance.

It still is mind-melting that the government wants to tell me how to spend my highly taxed income, and this is for US AND Europe. It just takes other countries like Germany longer to enforce stuff but essential they will, so I agree with the poster that said it will happen elsewhere as well. You probably need to move to a country where gambling is accepted as a cultural good like UK or go to a 3rd/2nd world country where they have bigger things to worry about...

For sure. If you read the indictment (found here: http://www.scribd.com/doc/53107543/Indictment-DOJ-vs-Scheinberg-Bitar-Tom-et-al) you'll quickly realize the fraud charges are no joke and the fact that FTP, Stars, et al were circumventing the UIGEA laws from 2006 (this is of course open to debate) in the eyes of the DOJ is NO JOKE.

I'm not sure I agree.

For fraud to stick, you have to have a victim. Someone has to be "tricked" into losing money.

Who lost money here?

They're claiming fraud against the banks, right?

Well, did any bank lose any money??

Don't think so.

Good lawyers will tear this thing to shreds.

I'm not sure I agree.

For fraud to stick, you have to have a victim. Someone has to be "tricked" into losing money.

Who lost money here?

They're claiming fraud against the banks, right?

Well, did any bank lose any money??

Don't think so.

Good lawyers will tear this thing to shreds.

I want to agree with you, but I think the Wire Fraud is against the government. Basically, money laundering. No real defense against false business fronts.