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tHeBoYmUsTdIe

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1530 posts
Joined 01/2010

So separate question, if we're taught to believe in Santa Claus by our parents, obviously we hit a certain age where we're able to rationally come to the conclusion that Santa Claus is not real. So do you think that some people just never are able to do that for themselves when it comes to God?




I think almost everyone is totally able to do it but I think most people don't want to do it. It could be fear, could be that they want to hold on to hope, or thoughts of an afterlife, or just that they have invested too much to give up on it even if they didn't believe it anymore.

Also, I think a lot of people that claim to believe don't actually believe.

Like, do you really honestly believe the talking donkey was real? Undecided

Posted over 3 years ago

mitch

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I think all religions are just different perspectives on the same spiritual ideas, and that people get too caught up in the metaphors. That religions are just tools you can utilize at your own digression to live a better life and not blueprints to militaristically follow.

There's this thing Karma Yoga which is basically doing everything in your day as a devotion to Krishna. So you'll be washing the dishes and keep the idea "I'm washing the dishes as an offering to Krishna" in your mind, and you're meant to remove the idea of self from the equation and just do them for him. But it doesn't matter that you're doing it for him, it's just an exercise to make you more concious and aware, allows you to disengage from the ego and be aware that the you is separate from your body and thoughts etc. But some people miss the point and see it as "EVERYTHING I DO SHALL BE IN SERVICE TO YOU GREAT KRISHNA. LOOK HOW MUCH FAITH I HAVE AND HOW MUCH I'M SACRIFICING TO PLEASE YOU!!!"

So I think the Christian concept of praying to god is just an exercise in gratitude, positive think, visualization, etc and if there is some form of god, or even if there's not, he doesn't give a shit if you pray to him or not, and he doesn't punish you or reward you if you do/don't pray for him. You do that to yourself with the things you gain from doing this exercise (or not doing it). But there's obviously ways that you can practice those exercises as well without praying to god (gratitude journal, habits, etc).

So I think religions are just toolboxes, and people just have to find the best toolbox for them. Or even better look at all the toolboxes and pick which tools they like the most. Atheism is one of those tool boxes too fwiw (I'd assume it'd be completely distilled ideas from a logical/scientific perspective).

Sometimes I do Karma Yoga and provide offerings to Krishna. I don't believe in it one bit, but I believe in why I'm doing it and the effects it has on me. I could gain these effects in more normal ways than becoming a servant to a magical man in the sky, but I like the framework it provides - and I enjoy it. On some level too I probably trick myself into believing it's way more spiritual than it is, which is fine, more gains for me Smile

I also agree with Acombfosho (not trollin you this time man!)...

I am agnostic too, because the finite mind cannot comprehend the infinite. Saying there is or isn't a God is basically saying you know everything about the universe.



Debating about gods and their actions/existence in a literal sense seems pretty frivolous. I also think people take religion way too seriously. This is just a ride.

Posted over 3 years ago

mitch

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Hopefully I don't go to hell for calling God a toolbox.

Posted over 3 years ago

maglame

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Saying you are atheist isn't saying that you know everything about the universe, it's saying that you have no compelling reason to believe in God, therefore you don't.

Posted over 3 years ago

mitch

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Saying you are atheist isn't saying that you know everything about the universe, it's saying that you have no compelling reason to believe in God, therefore you don't.



Ya actually I agree with that, guess I was focusing more on the first sentence. Trying to prove/disprove the existence of god seems like squirrels trying to split the atom, imo we just don't have the capacity to do it. Obv debunking religion is fine though.

Posted over 3 years ago

infire

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Joined 02/2008

Hopefully I don't go to hell for calling God a toolbox.



You'd be much more likely to go to hell for washing your dishes for Krishna, I'd think. It's a neat notion, though (the devotion mantra, not going to hell, or at least not in the same way).

Posted over 3 years ago

Sneakers

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2022 posts
Joined 09/2009

@Sneakers
i guess i'm just confused about agnosticism. it seems to me a silly PC move of simply not wanting to be full on "god haters." but it's functionally the same as atheism. agnosticism seems like it's saying both sides can be correct (unknowable), so it tries to be on both sides and no sides.

maybe agnosticism is just too meta for me. Frown


Well damn! That is the first time someone has called Sneakers "politically correct". I never thought that would ever happen. I promise it has never been a goal of mine to be PC (quite the opposite). LOL

It is kind of weird to hear someone more-or-less claim I need to choose sides on this issue. For me, I guess it takes some real honesty to say "Hey, I do not know what to believe. I do not think it is 'provable'. But continue. Explain your ideas."

Why does someone find it necessary to be "full-on god-haters"?
Why do I need to participate in that thinking, if I choose not to participate. Hate is rational?

Again, the people I respect the most (just for me personally), are the ones that explain their main-stream thoughts -- and at the same time -- can give acknowledgment that it cannot be 100% proven. They are open-minded and honest with themselves (in my view). The people I admire the least are the militant "science says it is true" believers. I ask myself, why do they feel such a strong need to convince everyone that "there is no god". I am certain that they to not have 'proof', just ideas and theories.

In short, call it "silly PC" or whatever. My attempt to be neutral (and open to listening) on this issue, is my attempt to be open to learning about all of the views presented. I do not have fears of going to "hell" or whatever happens in anyone's given belief system.....and at the same time, I understand that man is still on a quest to "understand" ...... "the meaning of life" ...... and where everything started.

Definition of Agnostic (wiki):
Agnosticism is the view that the truth value of certain claims—especially claims about the existence or non-existence of any deity, but also other religious and metaphysical claims—is unknown or unknowable.......
BTW just a side-note. as I looked up the definition, I found there are different levels/branches of 'agnostic'. That is one thing that has kept me from also calling myself a complete 'libertarian' .....many branch-offs within the definition. Interesting.

Posted over 3 years ago

maglame

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You are missing a big important point, Sneakers. Agnosticism doesn't exclude atheism.

Posted over 3 years ago

Sneakers

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You are missing a big important point, Sneakers. Agnosticism doesn't exclude atheism.


Yeah, I guess I thought that was obvious. I probably could even say that I am atheist, if it were not for admitting doubt about the possibility for the existence of a god (or something bigger than ourselves).

But for what it is worth (and my beliefs or doubts)....
I am definitely rebellious against anyone telling me I MUST CHOOSE whether I believe in something bigger than ourselves. That seems so silly and militant to me. Maybe that is part of what I call "freedom". I can believe or not believe as I choose, right?
Sometimes, I feel a bit forced into defending the other side of the argument (that there is a god).
Why do I need to do that? What urgency is there that I do that?

================
Something that would turn the planet Earth upside down, is if beings from another planet showed up here. Then what would one believe? I am sure those "beings" would also have a strong belief-system. I am absolutely certain of it.

Posted over 3 years ago

Acombfosho

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spotDEspot

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I am absolutely certain of it.


LOL - in the context of the discussion Wink

Posted over 3 years ago

Sneakers

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Joined 09/2009

LOL - in the context of the discussion Wink


LOL Did You See What I Did? Just a little light "uncertain/certain" humor.
You're quick.
Wink

Posted over 3 years ago

Melville

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745 posts
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Buddhism is not a religion. It's a method. Smile

Posted over 3 years ago

maglame

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1015 posts
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Buddhism is not a religion. It's a method. Smile


It's a religion.

Posted over 3 years ago

spotDEspot

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910 posts
Joined 06/2008

LOL Did You See What I Did? Just a little light "uncertain/certain" humor.
You're quick.
Wink


Yes - I guessed you couldn't resist - made me chuckle.

Posted over 3 years ago




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