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DeathDonkey

Avatar for DeathDonkey

5385 posts
Joined 11/2006

ok. I think I did it. I made a video. Its hopefully available at the link below.
if not, please let me know, cause I did something wrong.
please let me know if this works.
thanks...oh...and go ahead and rip my play. I dont mind...thats the idea.

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=ETLHGGQY



Notes as I watched:

2:30 easy fold with K3o on 4flush board, I'd probably have folded any river, bad turn card
4:25 I'd usually try to CR a late position bet here, I'd bet out with monsters only 5 ways.
5:40 discussing my ability to do audio - I spend a bit more time on each decision than you, I think you are playing a little too fast
6:25 KQo hand played well
7:45 nice fold with 66 vs UTG raise, I'd 3 bet a CO or button opener unless I had a read as very passive
8:20 yeah knowing SB is tight and bb unknown I'd isolate A5o here. no grief, river check fine, board too scary, nice hand
9:10 picking up clubs on the turn not really a reason to bet, bet if you think your hand is likely good vs his peeling range (it was, but just trying to point out what you should consider there)
9:55 A4o sb vs bb I think you played this well after he checks turn I like calling the river hoping to catch a bluff
10:30 K5s fold preflop vs tight UTG raiser!!
11:35 game may be a bit tight but you have awesome seat!!
12:50 45s I think is a bit loose from CO but good job trying to adjust to the tight guys behind you
13:25 with AJo 765 flop I think checking here 4 ways and basically peeling once and giving up is fine, 3 ways I'd definitely bet though. After they check to you on turn I think its close between giving up and betting again trying to protect your hand. I would not have called the river bet, you may have induced a bluff but the board is awful for you, the pot is medium sized, and your opponents are very passive, they probably rarely bluff there.
14:05 99 close to a 3 bet preflop for value, TT I'd 3 bet for sure. I'd check/fold the flop, it hits a PFR range way too hard. Easy fold when you have to overcall on the river.
15:00 KTo hand good turn bet when Ace hits, I'd give up on a low card hitting turn.
15:35 T8o limp I like but its close and marginal. 94s in sb on left table also close, the fold preflop is fine would definitely complete if there were 2 limpers.
16:45 I notice you didn't notice his short stack at all, all the money is going in anyway here, your thoughts are fine in general (see safe turn and then raise him again) but just pay more attention to stack sizes
17:20 Nope I guess I'm just a natural blabbermouth Smile
17:55 Even K8o I'd fold preflop because raiser is so passive, likely dominated, I'd rather call with 87o. nice job trying to hand read the tight players on the river for monsters.
19:00 "range" is simple taking "he has a good hand" and looking at the board texture as well as your read on him to figure out what he considers a "good hand" on that board. So there if you think he has "a good hand" that probably means Tx, 9x, a mid pocket pair, or maybe a draw like QJ, or a set.
19:30 QTo hand I'd checkraise flop as a default.
20:35 I wouldn't say I "visualize" a range I talk through what hands make up the range as best as I can and try to be thorough so I don't lie to myself about his true range by forgetting some of it.
20:45 he's so passive I would not 3 bet the flop, I'd try to improve or check/call down. Use your stats read. I would bet out on the river, you improved to a very strong hand and he can have many worse combinations of sets, two pairs, small flushes, etc. This is where thinking through his full range would have helped you realize how many hands in the range you pulled ahead of on the river.
21:35 Fastplay and raise flop! Nobody will ever put you on quads. Ugh hate slowplaying on the turn. What if he has a big pair? You miss out. Also would have probably 3 bet preflop but its close with his pretty passive stats
22:55 good job taking notes, good call down when he could have a worse jack or a semibluff, but try to use your questions when he raised turn to guess his range, you basically said it "Jx, a straight, two pair, a flush draw".
24:00 Jeez you are running sick hot, nice river full house Smile
24:35 bad flop call with 96o, not closing the action, drawing at the bottom end vs a passive player in a small pot.
25:15 KQo in sb with 2 limpers I think is close to a raise pre. Tight BB means I probably would. Well played postflop.
26:20 good isolation with tight blinds with K9o.
26:55 no we don't allow our video makers to drink and stuff in videos, but we can edit that out! Smile
28:00 I agree, you ran so hot in this video but the hands were pretty easy to play, its interesting to get your audio comments though. I think in general you are too emotionally invested and not able to think logically at all times about the hands. The way I talk about poker in my videos is exactly the way I think when not making a video, unless I'm tilted Smile
28:20 I would just call preflop because he's so passive (you have AKo). His flop check is pretty scary but its pretty tough to fold AK with such little action. River has to be close to a raise, but again his flop check is pretty scary (thinking set of jacks somewhat often).
29:20 AA turn bet is fine, standard bet bet bet.
30:00 If a diamond comes on the turn I don't like checking, too likely he has a single diamond and will call but will take a free card, no reason to get tricky vs most of these guys.
30:30 fine fold with A5o when passive guy donks into you. Could also call once and fold turn usually unless you improve.
31:20 I would definitely raise the river and call a 3 bet, he is so much more likely to have a set than a flush draw (most people would never cap the flush draw on turn). You got unlucky but I think you should have lost more.

Overall I thought you played very well but it was sort of an easy session to play and you ran well. As I mentioned earlier I think you are a bit too emotionally-driven in some of your decision making and I hope my comments about ranges were helpful. Looking forward to seeing what others thought about some of the hands as well.

-DeathDonkey

Posted about 5 years ago

Hypnotic

Avatar for Hypnotic

1169 posts
Joined 02/2008

I am going to watch this tonight.. I really doubt I can add anything worthwhile to DD's knowledge drop there, but I still wanna check it out.

I am also going to try and make one. I'm a little shy about it though since it will reveal just really how bad I am at poker and how flawed my thinking is during a game ;P

I guess thats a way to improve though!

Posted about 5 years ago

Hypnotic

Avatar for Hypnotic

1169 posts
Joined 02/2008

Doh, Overtime. Might not get to this tonight.

Posted about 5 years ago

Wayne Lively

Avatar for Wayne Lively

539 posts
Joined 05/2007

DD, majorly impressed at the effort you put into commenting! I shouldn't be, knowing you, but I really am. Kudos of the highest sort.

Now, what I can do is print out your comments, watch the video, and see where I'd have made the same or different mistakes. Huge learning tool!

Back on topic--

Where do we put the threads for this? Here in Videos, or in the appropriate stakes forum? No more commenting about the play on Mickey's video here, guys! Separate threads for videos and comments. This thread should be only for the general topic, or it's going to get jammed up.

*Editors, please open a new topic for Mickey's vid and copy his link and DD's comments?*

Posted about 5 years ago

JoeKnecht

Avatar for JoeKnecht

130 posts
Joined 05/2007

Thanks Mickey and DD. I find that I make many of the same errors/plays and wonder about my opps ranges too. Nicely done! If there is room for more videos I'd like to submit one .

Posted about 5 years ago

MickeyWins

Avatar for MickeyWins

1526 posts
Joined 07/2007

DD...this is way cool!!! ty for the long reply.
1) In my mind, there is no doubt what so ever that this is a great learning tool. I cant wait to do/record more of these, and to get more replys from my peers here on DC. And to watch some of theirs.
2) I am not sure if I fully understand this comment "I think in general you are too emotionally invested and not able to think logically at all times about the hands. The way I talk about poker in my videos is exactly the way I think when not making a video, unless I'm tilted Smile"
emotionally-invested (interesting term, what is it? ,am I on constant tilt?)
Can you explain this a little further, please. I think its very important.
3) I will go over all your notes with a fine toothed comb, and reply further if neccessary.

I feel like a kid in a candy store...life is good.

Posted about 5 years ago

MickeyWins

Avatar for MickeyWins

1526 posts
Joined 07/2007

Thanks Mickey and DD. I find that I make many of the same errors/plays and wonder about my opps ranges too. Nicely done! If there is room for more videos I'd like to submit one .



can we get somewhere to put/trade these?
I think we need our own forum.

Posted about 5 years ago

MickeyWins

Avatar for MickeyWins

1526 posts
Joined 07/2007

Thanks Mickey and DD. I find that I make many of the same errors/plays and wonder about my opps ranges too. Nicely done! If there is room for more videos I'd like to submit one .



Yes, please make a video and post it.

Posted about 5 years ago

Hypnotic

Avatar for Hypnotic

1169 posts
Joined 02/2008

Made one last night but had tech problems. Still trying to figure out what settings to use on camstudio

Posted about 5 years ago

MickeyWins

Avatar for MickeyWins

1526 posts
Joined 07/2007

DD....
your comments on my video..
9:10
AcTc on Kc3s6d..2c board vs SB 55/0/1.5 only 9 hands ..who called my PFR.
villain c/c my flop bet and checked turn...pot is 7.75sb

how would you think on this turn decision?
btw..not all my thoughts are being conveyed on the video, as if you pay attention to your thinking while taping, I doubt even half your thoughts get verbalized. I am not making excuses, I am trying to give you all the info you need to help me to improve. And when I make another video I will try to get more of my thoughts(which may help me slow down also..a good thing)verbalized so you can correct my thinking as much as possible.

19:30

Should I default c/r flop with any pair plus? or?
I lost a bet, maybe more cause I got greedy and waited.

I have more questions here, but I think I will make a new post out of them in small stakes.

thats all, so we are on the same wave length.

Posted about 5 years ago

DeathDonkey

Avatar for DeathDonkey

5385 posts
Joined 11/2006

1) Emotionally invested to me means you are making your decisions based on something besides just logic of his stats/hand range/actions, which I sort of assumed from your commentary. I get the feeling you really enjoy poker, love playing it and thinking about the game, which is awesome and makes you a great student and poster, but in some ways being more of a "robot" with regards to how you think about the decisions you have to make is going to keep you focused on the right variables and prevent you from getting upset at bad beats, bad results, etc. I'm not explaining this perfectly but I would tend to assume you are someone who allows how you are running, or any other metric of recent results to affect how much concentration and discipline in playing your A game you have at any given time. I could be wrong.

2) The ATcc hand I would be thinking its pretty close because he's loose and will peel the flop with lots of hands, so I could easily be betting for value, but on the other hand I'd hate to get CRed now that I picked up a pretty draw and he might bluff the river if I check but would have folded to a turn bet, so that's pretty appealing too. Anyway what I said in my comment was the REASON to bet the turn has nothing to do with you picking up the flush draw, so I just wanted to point that out because of your commentary, which told me you probably were making an error in decision making based on using "picked up outs" as a reason to bet. It's interesting that I would have played the hand the same, and if I just saw it in the forums I'd say "nice hand" but hearing your thoughts allows me to possibly still correct or improve your way of thinking about the hand.

3) The QT hand yeah I'd CR that flop (T93 or something if I remember) with any pair vs a decently aggro villain because his range should contain many many Ax and broadway combos we are ahead of. Also I would be worried that he might only bet the turn with a much narrower range, which our pair isn't so hot against and so waiting to CR the turn might just be a way of charging ourselves when we are behind but giving him a free card when we are ahead.

-DeathDonkey

Posted about 5 years ago

MickeyWins

Avatar for MickeyWins

1526 posts
Joined 07/2007

1) Emotionally invested to me means you are making your decisions based on something besides just logic of his stats/hand range/actions, which I sort of assumed from your commentary. I get the feeling you really enjoy poker, love playing it and thinking about the game, which is awesome and makes you a great student and poster, but in some ways being more of a "robot" with regards to how you think about the decisions you have to make is going to keep you focused on the right variables and prevent you from getting upset at bad beats, bad results, etc. I'm not explaining this perfectly but I would tend to assume you are someone who allows how you are running, or any other metric of recent results to affect how much concentration and discipline in playing your A game you have at any given time. I could be wrong.

2) The ATcc hand I would be thinking its pretty close because he's loose and will peel the flop with lots of hands, so I could easily be betting for value, but on the other hand I'd hate to get CRed now that I picked up a pretty draw and he might bluff the river if I check but would have folded to a turn bet, so that's pretty appealing too. Anyway what I said in my comment was the REASON to bet the turn has nothing to do with you picking up the flush draw, so I just wanted to point that out because of your commentary, which told me you probably were making an error in decision making based on using "picked up outs" as a reason to bet. It's interesting that I would have played the hand the same, and if I just saw it in the forums I'd say "nice hand" but hearing your thoughts allows me to possibly still correct or improve your way of thinking about the hand.

3) The QT hand yeah I'd CR that flop (T93 or something if I remember) with any pair vs a decently aggro villain because his range should contain many many Ax and broadway combos we are ahead of. Also I would be worried that he might only bet the turn with a much narrower range, which our pair isn't so hot against and so waiting to CR the turn might just be a way of charging ourselves when we are behind but giving him a free card when we are ahead.

-DeathDonkey



1) I dont know what to say here DD. This worries me, very much. I value your opinion very highly.
There must be something to it. You think I tilt a lot.
I hope you are misinterpreting my having a good time making a video, with tilt.
I have watched this video several times. I thought I played well.
I swore once, after I made a bad play. I dont mind losing. But I hate making mistakes.
thats why I swore.
I am planning on making another video in a couple days. I want you to look for my tilt factor again. I dont want you to pull punches, if its there lets fix it.

the reason this worries me so much is, 20 years ago, I was a fairly good amateur golfer. I was taking lessons. my teacher one day arrived at the driving range and had me hit a few balls. This was not unussual. I was hitting the ball well that day. Most of the shots looked good in the air.
After about ten minutes of just watching me hit shots. He had me stop. he then said. "Mike,you certainly hit the ball well, but I really cant help you much more, if you dont allow yourself to be better"
basically, he thought I was sabatoging myself. That I wouldn't let myself play as well as I was capable of playing. I sure hope thats not what is happening here. that would suck.

Posted about 5 years ago

DeathDonkey

Avatar for DeathDonkey

5385 posts
Joined 11/2006

Hey, I definitely think its an issue of sample size and somewhat of a lack of communication on my part. I really don't think you tilt a lot from watching the vid, in my mind I do make a distinction between tilt and what I said about you. Re-reading my own last post I tried to say I was just sort of making assumptions about you based on a very short sampling of your thoughts, what you are telling me makes me think I was wrong. You just sounded like someone who enjoys poker, and hasn't had the joy sucked from your soul by variance, its a good thing! Smile Smile

I guess I didn't hear as much logical analysis from you when you had a close decision as I would expect from a very strong player which could be due to a couple things. 1) as you found out, its not so easy making videos, and verbalizing your thought process, and 2) you still lack some of the way of breaking down a hand like we try to do (ranges etc.) even though I think you internally understand it fairly well. As I said in my notes, I felt like while you were protesting your understanding of ranges, the words you used at various times were in effect putting him on a range, just not as fleshed out as it could have been, so I think the right thoughts are there and they will come out more and more as you see that the process you go through is one of creating a range for a player and then narrowing it with each new piece of information, you just do it sort of intuitively.

Again I felt like your video showed a lot of great solid play, and I don't want you to be discouraged whatsoever. If I'm being honest you played better than I expected you too, and I feel confident in saying you are / would be a winning player at most lower limit online games, which is no easy feat these days. I'll be happy to look through future videos as well, maybe you'll find some more difficult situations and we can continue to find the areas to work on.

-DeathDonkey

Posted about 5 years ago

Ulkis

Avatar for Ulkis

671 posts
Joined 10/2007


I guess I didn't hear as much logical analysis from you when you had a close decision as I would expect from a very strong player which could be due to a couple things. 1) as you found out, its not so easy making videos, and verbalizing your thought process, and 2) you still lack some of the way of breaking down a hand like we try to do (ranges etc.) -DeathDonkey



DD's analysis was worth a lot considering how much effort and time he put into it. Shame I don't play LHE but hopefully we'll see NL videos too and as good feedback for them as for this video.

As for above, some people can do 1) and 2) and one would expect this from all the DC guys making instructional videos. Most(?) world class players can do 2) but would probably be hard pressed to do 1). I cannot do either one, that's for sure. But did that stop me doing a video? No sir. And provided it works out technically, I might post it and take all the heat associated with it - but reap the benefits too. This would be my 2nd attempt, 1st one I was trying to do as much commentary as I could. What happened? I was constantly timing out and thinking more about the commentary than the hands. B-game at best, perhaps C. 2nd video I cut down the commentary big time and played a lot better (and ran good too, that helps), and for a trained eye what I do should be quite obvious even with less commenting to back it up.

Posted about 5 years ago

MickeyWins

Avatar for MickeyWins

1526 posts
Joined 07/2007

DD..
I will do another video tonight and I am going to post it no matter what the result.
And take the heat, as so many others have posted here.(hey..its fun guys, try it!!)
I think you are right in that my thinking could be clearer, and more directed.
The clearer is a problem I have to find a way to work on/improve myself.
The more directed, I leave for you.
I understand the "robot"/poker machine thing.

poker is about making correct decisions. I need to think clearly, and I also need to know what to think about.
I am frustrated with ranges, because they dont come easily to me. I will work harder on RANGES, as to not cause fuzzy/tilty/unclear thinking.
I am not a good speaker/communicator(was a bad student in school too..lol). I cant fix that at this junture in life, so you/I/we will have to accept that and move on.

I have a goal. And as flippant as I may appear this goal is meaningful to me.
I might fail, but it will not be from lack of effort.

DD, I need you to make me 70% of the player you are.
This will gain me my goal.

so lets get at it.

good luck to all of us.

Posted about 5 years ago




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