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meowjr

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535 posts
Joined 02/2011

OP, from most of your posts it seems like you don't have a firm grasp on stack depth and/or effective stacks and how this will affect decisions. You might try playing some different online SNGs to get a better sense of this.

Posted over 6 years ago

SCS

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6528 posts
Joined 06/2008

The math of poker will never ever change.

I will stick to my 30 year old poker book.



Context does change though, which may or may not render the particular math you are using incorrect, or at least inappropriate for the situation at hand.

Posted over 6 years ago

UU!I.I.4AAUU35

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2192 posts
Joined 07/2010

The knowledge pool of poker math has expanded significantly in 30 years.

Posted over 6 years ago

TecmoSuperBowl

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Tribe Leader
5690 posts
Joined 01/2009

The math of poker will never ever change.

I will stick to my 30 year old poker book.


Don't take this the wrong way because I'm actually trying to help. This mindset is going to prevent you from improving. If you really want to discuss the math behind poker, then watch Wilt's series Math of NL. As for Doyle's book, saying you'll stick with it is like saying "internet? nah, I'm good, I have a whole set of encyclopedias."

Posted over 6 years ago

TravD

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54 posts
Joined 02/2012

I acknowledge that the game has changed a lot in 30 years.

What I am trying to say is this...

When people used to ride horses it was to get from point A to point B. And now we do it a lot faster in nice comfortable cars with air conditioners, music, and GPS or even faster in airplanes.

But the result is the same. Point A to point B.

Follow me?

Posted over 6 years ago

shuttle

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3362 posts
Joined 11/2008

Honestly I think you'd do really really well to completely re-assess your game.

Sure the fundamental structure of the mathematics of combinatorial games haven't changed as they aren't able to change but the understanding people have of the game these days is much greater than it was back then.

People simply have a better understanding of the game now as compared with 30 years ago.

Posted over 6 years ago

UU!I.I.4AAUU35

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2192 posts
Joined 07/2010


What I am trying to say is this...

When people used to ride horses it was to get from point A to point B. And now we do it a lot faster in nice comfortable cars with air conditioners, music, and GPS or even faster in airplanes.

But the result is the same. Point A to point B.

Follow me?


How much do you charge for coaching?

Posted about 6 years ago

identifier

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2141 posts
Joined 07/2008

*something about carrying figs over a mountain*

OP, without meaning to sound mean you really need to consider that we're not all wrong and maybe there's some merit in what we're saying here. Just from reading a couple of your posts it's obvious that your hand reading could def do with some work, along with some other fundamentals.

Posted about 6 years ago

Sillygoose87

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85 posts
Joined 08/2011

OP is a distraction. I think we'd all do well to ignore this thread

Posted about 6 years ago

joel

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136 posts
Joined 02/2011

Sounds like you guys need to read Super System. Doyle said it best when he said that he has gone broke the most when he had bottom 2 pair. To confirm this, I just put in a 13 hour session and this is what I saw repeatedly...

Flop is K 5 3 and donk has KQ and turn is another K or Q giving him the best hand over and over and over it kept happening.

Or here is another...flop is K 5 3 and I have 5 3 and donk has KQ and turn and river is 7 7...
WTF? It's so crazily unbelievable but once you actually think about it, bottom 2 pair is extremely vulnerable to suckouts when someone has an overpair.



Assuming no flush draws, you're about a 3-to-1 favourite holding 53 v. AK on a K53 flop. Good poker playing means putting as much money in when you have the best hand (thus maximising EV). Sure, you'll occasionally get sucked out on when he hits an A, K, or runner-runner pair, but in the long run you're making *a lot* of money.

I did read Super System a couple of years back. Don't remember Doyle's quote specifically but I suspect that he's talking about something different. In particular when playing good opponents, they won't necessarily be super happy committing all their chips with just top pair on such a board. What Doyle may be saying is that, in general, when good players *are* willing to put all their chips in, they probably have a better hand than just top pair or overpair, and that therefore means a better hand than bottom two, as well. But in the situation at hand, it's very difficult for an UTG opener to have better than top pair or overpair on a K53 rainbow board.

Just to belabour the super obvious, I am *not* advocating getting all the money in on, say, an AKQ flop with KQ facing an UTG open. Because if the money goes in, you're almost certainly behind.

Posted about 6 years ago

infire

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1422 posts
Joined 02/2008

The math of poker will never ever change.



A lot of poker math is based upon range assessment, and ranges are always in flux.

Posted about 6 years ago

zachd2323

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3148 posts
Joined 04/2010

A lot of poker math is based upon range assessment, and ranges are always in flux.



This is true.

Posted about 6 years ago

TravD

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54 posts
Joined 02/2012


Just to belabour the super obvious, I am *not* advocating getting all the money in on, say, an AKQ flop with KQ facing an UTG open. Because if the money goes in, you're almost certainly behind.



THIS is all I was ever saying bubba. Who stacks off with just AK on a K 5 3 flop? Not many people that I know of unless they are tourists or short stacked.

I appreciate all of the help from you guys. It helped me to chop a local tourney 7 ways last night.

Posted about 6 years ago

TravD

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54 posts
Joined 02/2012

How much do you charge for coaching?



I probably could do some coaching. Thanks for the support Smile It's great to have a fan club.

BTW, the donks who stack off with bottom 2 are the ones who I make my money from. All day.

Posted about 6 years ago

identifier

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2141 posts
Joined 07/2008




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