Poker Video: MTT by AMT (High Stakes)

Push: AMT and Bones (#1) - STT Shorthanded

Push: AMT and Bones (#1) - STT Shorthanded by AMT, bones

Finally, shorthanded donkaments! AMT introduces Deucescracked's newest tournament coach Bones, as together they explore, analyze and break down a replay of AMT playing a \$236, 6 max STT on Full Tilt Poker. They discuss some general aspects to shorthanded SNG play including picking up the aggression, player observation, game flow, note taking, and much more!

Sit and Go'ers beware: DC's tournament specialists walk you through everything about STTs. Watch and learn how to destroy sit and go tournaments: when to bluff, when to fold, and of course, when to push.

Video Details

• Game:
• Stakes: High Stakes
• 87 minutes long
• Posted about 9 years ago

Comments for Push: AMT and Bones (#1) - STT Shorthanded

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Hood

1088 posts
Joined 08/2008

ohboyohboyohboyohboy

bones

624 posts
Joined 03/2008

I made an error in my initial calculations and it's actually a much worse shove than we quoted in the video.

AJs resteal

start- 18.69%

If lose- 0 (.766)

If win with a fold- 22.201 (.424)

If win when called- 35.4 (.234)

If he's opening 22+,A8s+,KTs+,QTs+,JTs,ATo+,KJo+ (14.9%) and calling 77+,AJs+,KQs,AJo+ (8.7%)

ev= .424 (22.201) + .576(.234(35.4) - .766(0)) = 14.18

ev shove= 14.18

ev fold= 18.69

bones

624 posts
Joined 03/2008

icm 98 hand

start

1- .519 (ssmmss)
2- 24.58 (sizzlinbettas)
3- 18.425 (minxminxx)
4- 39.413 (yellowmoto)
5- 17.063 (AMT)

if win both

1- 0
2- 24.410
3- 18.302
4- 38.539
5- 18.748

if win side, lose main

1- 1.54
2- 24.365
3- 18.269
4- 38.455
5- 17.372

If lose both by checking (yellow scoops)

1- 0
2- 24.872
3- 18.638
4. 40.63
5- 15.86

If lose both (yellow wins side, ssmmss wins main)

1- 1.554
2- 24.621
3- 18.455
4- 39.664
5- 15.706

If lose both by betting 120 ( yellow scoops)

1- o
2- 24.965
3- 18.689
4- 41.873
5- 14.473

If lose both by betting 120 (yellow wins side, ssmmss wins main)

1- 1.567
2- 24.838
3- 18.612
4. 40.561
5- 14.422

side pot

Board: Kh 9d 3s

equity win tie

Hand 0: 25.348% 24.07% 01.28% { 55-22, A9s-A2s, KJs-K2s, Q2s+, J2s+, T2s+, 92s+, 82s+, 72s+, 62s+, 52s+, 42s+, 32s, A9o-A2o, KJo-K2o, Q2o+, J2o+, T2o+, 92o+, 82o+, 72o+, 62o+, 52o+, 42o+, 32o }

Hand 1: 74.652% 73.38% 01.28% { 9c8d }

main 3 handed

equity win tie

Hand 0: 21.269% 20.16% 01.11% { 55-22, A9s-A2s, KJs-K2s, Q2s+, J2s+, T2s+, 92s+, 82s+, 72s+, 62s+, 52s+, 42s+, 32s, A9o-A2o, KJo-K2o, Q2o+, J2o+, T2o+, 92o+, 82o+, 72o+, 62o+, 52o+, 42o+, 32o }

Hand 1: 54.767% 53.09% 01.68% { 9c8d }

Hand 2: 23.964% 22.91% 01.05% { random }

main hu

equity win tie

Hand 0: 27.844% 26.70% 01.14% { random }

Hand 1: 72.156% 71.01% 01.14% { 9c8d }

keep_shoving

16 posts
Joined 07/2008

im shocked to see that a 200\$+ sng player flats AJ in that spot, to me its a clear fold, he probably folds ATo, (when you would be in bst shape), if i would think about playing the hand i def wouldnt think bout calling. isnt that really bad ? (since i only play up to 104)

Hood

1088 posts
Joined 08/2008

AJs resteal

start- 18.69%
...
ev fold= 18.69

The EV of folding I calculate as 18.974 (assuming you and everyone else ofds and yellow picks up the blinds).

I agree the AJ definately looks like a bad shove, but flatting here i would have never considered. I mean you say you aren't just going to fold if you miss the flop (no pair, no flush draw, no overs, you say), but then you instamuck on a Kxx board that doesn't really hit his hand range. I'm just not seeing what kind of boards you are going to attack. Against his 15% opening range you picked, you have equal equity. You have position but you dont have the initiative, and you have an extremely transparent hand range (unless you are going to balance your flatting range here by also flatting AA sometimes, and you are calling 15% of your stack and you're not closing the action. I'm gonna look at this spot more later but i would really like to here a bit more reasoning on what exactly your post-flop plan is to make this a +EV call.

Q_caine

36 posts
Joined 09/2008

Seriously, guys, this is probably the worst video I've seen on DC so far. The AJs hand was just awful, as well as 98o as you already noticed yourself in the vid, some other explanations really sucked as well, especially about why "YelloMoto"'s minraise with QQ was something a good player would never do. Actually imo, minraising in this spot is not too bad at all. shoving is obv also an option, but mr/f a bad hand might be even better, especially when you say that you in the BB don't think you have much FE, which should lead to the conclusion that any reasonable player in the BB won't shove very loose against the SB minraise.

After all I was really disappointed, especially by AMT's performance(bones did a way better job there), hope the next sng vids you guys release can keep up to DC's standard again

AMT

2036 posts
Joined 01/2008

The EV of folding I calculate as 18.974 (assuming you and everyone else ofds and yellow picks up the blinds).

I agree the AJ definately looks like a bad shove, but flatting here i would have never considered. I mean you say you aren't just going to fold if you miss the flop (no pair, no flush draw, no overs, you say), but then you instamuck on a Kxx board that doesn't really hit his hand range. I'm just not seeing what kind of boards you are going to attack. Against his 15% opening range you picked, you have equal equity. You have position but you dont have the initiative, and you have an extremely transparent hand range (unless you are going to balance your flatting range here by also flatting AA sometimes, and you are calling 15% of your stack and you're not closing the action. I'm gonna look at this spot more later but i would really like to here a bit more reasoning on what exactly your post-flop plan is to make this a +EV call.

Well, I believe I addressed this at one point and I know Tommy Angelo has, that the spots that people will be debating over the most are more likely to be neutral EV spot or very close situation.
That said, in this situation specifically, I agree, in the end, with these stacks/positions/the situation at hand, folding is the best play (as Bones and I arrive upon after going through all the options in the video replay), but I actually believe we gave a pretty thorough and accurate analysis of the situation, with the stipulation of, we should probably have more like 1800-2000 to start getting 'more advanced' (or FPS, as the case may be )

Re: The plan of not auto-shutting down relating to the profitability of the call, as I mentioned above I think it's a bit more of a mistake than we stressed with the stacks, but it's still close under these conditions, and still *extremely* important to work through all of the options in this particular spot, and I'd go so far as to say that you should rarely if ever fold in a scenario with a *bit* bigger of effective stacks/with slightly different dynamic or more of a player-specific read with this strong of a hand 5 handed.

I also do disagree about your assessment of this flop "not hitting his hand range" as you describe a "Kxx" board (which is of course why I didn't give as much thought to making a play in this particular spot). I believe that when you're looking at that type of hand range possibilities of what player type you might at least consider flat calling against (those consistent losing, straightforwardish TAGfishy type players, for lack of a better description here?), that a KTx 2-tone board very much hits his hand range (AK/KQ/KJ/QJ/AT/any suited broadway of diamonds etc.) That said, in any given similar situation where you may be considering calling as a viable option (again, hopefully being a bit deeper next time!), a player of similar description may often have a tendency to quickly bet, bet super big/super small, or most commonly for those straightforward multi tablers, check/give up because our flat does look fairly strong here with the situation as is. All of these add to those nuances and tendencies that you should investigate when you develop plans for later streets, and here, why it might not be a super-snap fold (as opposed to just a slow-sigh fold after the preflop mistake).

Further, some of these breakevenish or not amazing players at any buy in may not vary bet sizing much at all, so when you see him betting the same amount as he did preflop here, it furthers the argument of solidifying the player type as it relates to the argument for calling with a bit more comfortable of positioning/stack sizing etc., and also, with many of them in my experience, would add fold equity when they decide to snap c-bet 1/2 pot (or less) on any presumably safe board.

Talking through this also makes me want to add the stipulation that another mistake with our preflop call in this vid would simply just be not having a ninja-read to manipulate the math to work in our favor in any given situation that it might (of course, we won't consider calling vs all or even most player types often. As I mentioned it may be a super standard shove vs. many). I'm of course imagining a scenario where a top 8 tabling high stakes (200s-1k+) 6m exclusive-STT reg who has reads on all the regs and semi regs calls (even with the stacks as they lie almost! zomggg), and profitably so for a lot of the aforementioned reasons. I'm not sure whether sadly or happily, but I can say with certainty that I am not fitting of this description. I can also say with certainty, as I said in the video, that if the spot is marginal and might lead to more post flop decision making to talk through, even if a mistake on my part, I'm happy to make, and attempt to thoroughly analyze/discuss the mistake in the name of poker academia imoz. Do hope you enjoyed the video though, thanks for your post and comments!

AMT

2036 posts
Joined 01/2008

Seriously, guys, this is probably the worst video I've seen on DC so far. The AJs hand was just awful, as well as 98o as you already noticed yourself in the vid, some other explanations really sucked as well, especially about why "YelloMoto"'s minraise with QQ was something a good player would never do. Actually imo, minraising in this spot is not too bad at all. shoving is obv also an option, but mr/f a bad hand might be even better, especially when you say that you in the BB don't think you have much FE, which should lead to the conclusion that any reasonable player in the BB won't shove very loose against the SB minraise.

After all I was really disappointed, especially by AMT's performance(bones did a way better job there), hope the next sng vids you guys release can keep up to DC's standard again

Thank you for the input. I disagree completely on most accounts, and perhaps some of it is addressed in the explanation I posted after, but what exactly about mistakes made by a coach in a video as a concept makes it a bad video in itself when the explanation comes as it does? I know I don't make an even marginal amount of money in the long term from poker magically. I can tell you that this discussion with Bones in this video helped me to reflect a lot on how I grew as a player and why (again, possibly helped in my explanation that came after your post) and specifically, why I take the general philosophy of making mistakes in a video and thoroughly discussing why they may be mistakes and in what situations (if any) they may not be mistakes, and of course, what the right play should've been if it wasn't made correctly or standard or whatever (AJs hand being the biggest example of why I think the "Best hand of the Vid" is why you think it is the worst example of the vid perhaps, and if I didn't make it clear, I'm sorry that you feel that way but my opinions on the hand certainly have not changed from anything stated to this point).

especially when you say that you in the BB don't think you have much FE, which should lead to the conclusion that any reasonable player in the BB won't shove very loose against the SB minraise.

While you forgot to add the stipulation of me saying in the video "from my experience on FTP [as opposed to another site], based on these raises from some of these similar player types..."

Re: YellowMotto, not so much that a good player may never minraise with a monster there, but given everything pointed out about said player, him not having to have a monster there necessarily (again, the core of why I believe this is such a great spot for a video is talking through it, *especially* with quite an admittedly marginal or hell even straight up bad push made).
Like if I can't convince you guys that the point of this video was to take some marginal spots in addition to some general 6m STT strat and break them down and some of the thought processes behind them and the optimal plays, I'm not sure we're on the same page at all as far as what I put into videos and why I discuss what I discuss with people in poker.
Part of this sentiment in even wanting to shove *just* to see a showdown in order to achieve our end of academic understanding of the concepts behind it (and not just pretend we can play perfect poker) might help to think about what would've happened if motto was just a different specific guy and a worse reg and folded to that shove, or if he had snapped and showed K6s---> and even this is a point I didn't expand on enough in the video imo. The correlarry to your saying that this could very well be a monster (obv.) is that, at a higher buy in some regulars believe a small raise would be viewed as stronger than a shove nowadays, and while applicably the same (they'd never bet/fold), any given reg may decide to use it as his version of the shove-to-steal-blinds (AKA, wide range or ATC shove), which is where non-0% chances of certain players in this spot folding, or showing up without QQ+ definitely either come into application when you're playing your games or happen enough that seeing the spot and even concluding to yourself "now I fully know why I can't get it in with that ace there to a weak raise from this player even if he IS pretty wide" might be valuable to you or hopefully at least some of the viewers out there.

Guess we won't go into it here more than we did in the vid with the 98o hand, as you said yourself, Bones explained in the video, and my own philosophies behind just simple mistake-making in videos (hell, whether they be on purpose or unintentional) vs. actual content and analysis of good or bad play in videos make this fairly simple as to why there probably isn't much more to elaborate on for that point unless you'd like to discuss the general topic further, or if there was anything not already covered in the aforementioned hands.

And since you highlighted my performance (however you defined the term in your head) being particularly poor, if you meant anything beyond the clicking of buttons being replayed, if there is anything that hasn't already been mentioned, by all means, criticisms are not new to me, good and bad I s'pose (though people need to come out with it with the bad more often, because as you imply, perhaps there are methodologies in which I could improve upon that no one's ever mentioned from a productions perspective or from a strategic perspective), public or private.

I simply find it odd that where I personally advertise and find strengths in the way a video should be approached, analyzed studied, played or viewed, you found weaknesses, and, given all of the explanations both in-video and out to this point, I s'pose I'm still struggling to understand why. I do appreciate the input though, and will consider all comments as I read, think through and reply to them as best as I can (you do NOT ever want to get onto an MTT sleep schedule, or lack thereof, trust me).

MrMillions

131 posts
Joined 09/2008

I really enjoyed this vid, I liked the format and freezing the action for discussions. Good to see a 6 man vid but generally there is a gap about how higher buy-in plays vs lower buy-ins.

vandweller

474 posts
Joined 12/2008

Seriously, guys, this is probably the worst video I've seen on DC so far. The AJs hand was just awful,

Mistakes in videos are learning opportunities. From that perspective, this video is a gold mine.

j/k I haven't watched it yet.

474 posts
Joined 12/2008

<3 AMT

Tehanu

105 posts
Joined 02/2008

Seriously, guys, this is probably the worst video I've seen on DC so far. The AJs hand was just awful, as well as 98o as you already noticed yourself in the vid, some other explanations really sucked as well, especially about why "YelloMoto"'s minraise with QQ was something a good player would never do. Actually imo, minraising in this spot is not too bad at all. shoving is obv also an option, but mr/f a bad hand might be even better, especially when you say that you in the BB don't think you have much FE, which should lead to the conclusion that any reasonable player in the BB won't shove very loose against the SB minraise.

After all I was really disappointed, especially by AMT's performance(bones did a way better job there), hope the next sng vids you guys release can keep up to DC's standard again

I thought it was a pretty good video.

Mistakes happen and when you address them in the video i think it is more useful learning material than only releasing videos where the play is "perfect".

About the A3o hand. I think that the minraise from yellowmoto is like absolute trash that he's going to fold to a shove and some monsters. I don't think he would do the MR with hands like Kx,Ax,small pairs etc if the name that AMT is playing under is unknown. A bad/weird player might just flat there and it would be a disaster if he was minraising with a shoving hand.

Hood

1088 posts
Joined 08/2008

fwiw i wanted to come back to this thread and clarify that i thought this video was excellent, as are the responses from AMT and bones here in the thread. Response to the vid has been pretty negative and is v. undeserved. The couple of thin mistakes made by AMT lead to some interesting discussion both in the video and afterwards.

I think the format worked really well and i am pretty psyched about you guys having your own tourney day next season. Along with the vandapants - who put out perhaps two of the best classroom style SNG videos ever made imo - it's gonna be pretty sick imo.

so thanks again guys.

Blackstone27

2 posts
Joined 07/2008

Thought the video was really good. I learned a few things so great. Think its good too see mistakes made and discussed. The only complaint i have is that AMT talks to fast and too long. English is not my first language so i find it hard to follow AMT's 1000 words a minute sentences. But looking forward to the next vid. Keep up the good work.

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