Poker Video: Misc/Other by Tommy Angelo (Micro/Small Stakes)

The Eightfold Path to Poker Enlightenment: Episode Two

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The Eightfold Path to Poker Enlightenment: Episode Two by Tommy Angelo

Today we take the second step on the path to poker enlightenment, right thinking. Tommy and Wayne discuss topics like position, anticipation, door a and door b, reciprocality, rake, rules, and lopping off the C game.

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Join Tommy Angelo (author of Elements of Poker) and Wayne Lively as they embark on the Eightfold Path to Poker Enlightenment. This remarkable series is an excellent companion to Tommy's book and has been lovingly crafted over the past year. Featuring brand new musical composition from Tommy, this series is designed with the iPod in mind and transcends standard video poker training. Watch. Listen. Breathe. Win.

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tommy angelo wayne lively the eightfold path to poker enlightenment ipod friendly tilt control

Video Details

  • Game: other
  • Stakes: Micro/Small Stakes
  • 47 minutes long
  • Posted over 5 years ago

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punish15

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SnappieVouz

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AlCapown3d

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Time Link to 00:44:18

Why did you have to say "So let those aces, go"? Grin
I almost had my tilt level down to almost normal again.

Anyways great video, great series so far.
I can make a lot of use of it at the moment.

Posted over 5 years ago

TecmoSuperBowl

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Thanks Tommy/Wayne/Entity!!! Can't wait to check this out!

Posted over 5 years ago

ThatDeviant

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I can't begin to express how important the piano interludes are to these videos.

Posted over 5 years ago

elieliasson

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I am confident that this is the video series that will lead to the biggest improvement of my winrate.

love this!

Posted over 5 years ago

Speedlimits

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How is this not getting 5 stars!!! Are you kidding me guys?

Posted over 5 years ago

Freudian

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It did feel a bit like a repetition of episode one. I don't particularly mind, since I believe in the value of repetition when learning.

Posted over 5 years ago

simonpoker

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It did feel a bit like a repetition of episode one. I don't particularly mind, since I believe in the value of repetition when learning.



cant wait to see it.

Posted over 5 years ago

nakke

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It did feel a bit like a repetition of episode one. I don't particularly mind, since I believe in the value of repetition when learning.


Yeah there's definitely a lot of repetition from either the first episode or the preview thing. But I don't think that's a particularly bad thing either.

Posted over 5 years ago

Wayne Lively

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Yeah there's definitely a lot of repetition from either the first episode or the preview thing. But I don't think that's a particularly bad thing either.



That's interesting. After you listen to something forty-seven times it feels repetitive, but I never got the feeling from one to the other we were repeating. We spent time in E1 listing the things we are going to talk about, and of course there is a lot of overlap between these topics.

Hope it doesn't diminish the value.

Now when I think about all my good stuff which added nothing but filler that got cut out really puts me on tilt.

We appreciate all comments, in case we ever lose our minds and do this again.

Wayne

Posted over 5 years ago

simonpoker

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really good video and promising series thus far and as far as repetition goes it surely is positive.

Posted over 5 years ago

Soepgroente

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Time Link to 00:16:46

This is not necessarily true. There's also relative position, e.g. you're in the big blind and the button raises, the small blind calls and you call. Since often the small blind and you check to the raiser you have the privilige of seeing what the small blind does after a continuation bet. In this case it could definitely be argued that being in the big blind can be better than being on the button.

Compare it to the cutoff raising, you calling on the button and the small blind calling, he now checks near 100% of the time and the raiser places a cbet, now you have no idea what the small blind is up to.

Although in most cases I agree that being last to act is a big advantage, just wanted to point out that this statement is not set in stone (like most things in poker).

Posted over 5 years ago

Soepgroente

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Time Link to 00:24:34

Oh this is so true, especially in limit games (for me). If you say to yourself before betting "I am going to bet and fold to a raise" you will fold to the raise but likely pay it off if you hadn't promised yourself you would be beat if he raised.

Posted over 5 years ago

groove

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Excellent again.

I really need some of Tommy's piano playing to listen to whilst playing. Very soothing and slightly uplifting.

Posted over 5 years ago

Tommy Angelo

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This is not necessarily true. There's also relative position, e.g. you're in the big blind and the button raises, the small blind calls and you call. Since often the small blind and you check to the raiser you have the privilige of seeing what the small blind does after a continuation bet. In this case it could definitely be argued that being in the big blind can be better than being on the button.

Compare it to the cutoff raising, you calling on the button and the small blind calling, he now checks near 100% of the time and the raiser places a cbet, now you have no idea what the small blind is up to.

Although in most cases I agree that being last to act is a big advantage, just wanted to point out that this statement is not set in stone (like most things in poker).



You make a strong case in support of the possibility that being last to act on the flop is not always better than being not last to act.

(I'm trying to work in as many negatives as I can. How'm I doing?)

When we look at a whole hand, that is, the flop, turn, and river, I do not think a reasonable case can be made to support a claim that last to act on all three streets is not always best.

Tommy

Posted over 5 years ago

Wayne Lively

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Soepgroente

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When we look at a whole hand, that is, the flop, turn, and river, I do not think a reasonable case can be made to support a claim that last to act on all three streets is not always best.

Tommy


Hmm, I see your point and although I agree for 95%, what I'm saying is not that unlikely/far fetched Wink. I wasn't trying to critisize but rather add some information.

Have you ever played limit 2-7 triple draw? In this case it's a very reasonable situation that comes up rather frequently that the person in position gets squeezed in between players. Say the cutoff raises, you call on the button and the small blind reraises and the cutoff caps. You complete the cap and the small blind draws 2, cutoff 1 and you draw 1.

Now a check from the small blind and a bet from the cutoff will happen 100% of the time between regular players, so suddenly you're first to act with no way of closing the action and if you call this bet you might very well get checkraised and get trapped for multiple bets since the action re-opens every time!

Anyway, we in holland have a saying which translates to "It's the exception that confirms the rule". So yes, in general, getting position is my mission (how about that catchphrase Wink)

Thanks for the video. I was on the right path already but this series is definitely helping me. I played many hours on my B or C game yesterday (because of running bad) and today I feel like I've played my A game with a hint of my B game, despite not running too incredibly well.

EDIT- when I say 'I played bad because I was running bad' I mean 'I played bad because I didn't deal with bad luck well.' But I'm sure you understood that Poke Tongue

Posted over 5 years ago

Wayne Lively

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EDIT- when I say 'I played bad because I was running bad' I mean 'I played bad because I didn't deal with bad luck well.' But I'm sure you understood that Poke Tongue



Oh, he does.

Grin

Posted over 5 years ago

nair

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Tommy Angelo

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getting position is my mission (how about that catchphrase Wink)



I like it!

I wasn't trying to critisize but rather add some information.



Understood.

Have you ever played limit 2-7 triple draw?



No. But I have played many hours of various forms of double-draw and triple-draw, high only, low only, and hi-lo. So I'm familiar with the place you are taking me.

In this case it's a very reasonable situation that comes up rather frequently that the person in position gets squeezed in between players. Say the cutoff raises, you call on the button and the small blind reraises and the cutoff caps. You complete the cap and the small blind draws 2, cutoff 1 and you draw 1.

Now a check from the small blind and a bet from the cutoff will happen 100% of the time between regular players, so suddenly you're first to act with no way of closing the action and if you call this bet you might very well get checkraised and get trapped for multiple bets since the action re-opens every time!



So what's the problem? I get to see how many they draw! Twice! And if I make a big hand, I rate to make more being last than I would as first. I just can't imagine that my EV on the hand would be improved by trading places with either one of them.

Thanks for the video.



You're very welcome. It has been, truly, my pleasure.

Tommy

Posted over 5 years ago

nakke

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That's interesting. After you listen to something forty-seven times it feels repetitive, but I never got the feeling from one to the other we were repeating. We spent time in E1 listing the things we are going to talk about, and of course there is a lot of overlap between these topics.

Hope it doesn't diminish the value.

Now when I think about all my good stuff which added nothing but filler that got cut out really puts me on tilt.

We appreciate all comments, in case we ever lose our minds and do this again.

Wayne


It might just be that you've talked about what you're going to talk about a few times, and then when you actually talk about it in detail we remember that it's already been mentioned and associate to the thoughts we had when you just mentioned the topic. Especially if it's something that's relatively simple to grasp (but hard to always remember/do correctly). As I said, this is in no way a negative thing, and probably actually helps the learning process.

To add to ThatDeviant's comment, I can't begin to express how important it is to the whole DC EXPERIENCEâ„¢ to have the video producers be so actively involved in the comment threads.

Posted over 5 years ago

SnappieVouz

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Being emotionally attached to your cards, what does this exactly mean?

I think it means that you are connected to the cards you are getting like you own them,
but how does it really work?
How can someone ever get emotional attatched to a piece of paper with an A on it?

Posted over 5 years ago

SnappieVouz

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Time Link to 00:06:55

Looking at the graph, it seems like the 'eventually' has no c-game, while you say everybody has a C-game

So is the 'eventually' graph when you die?

Posted over 5 years ago

volition

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Ncoa

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Really great! The way you guys has constucted this is very professional...I mean...I would probably watch this even if I had never played poker Poke Tongue...much of what you say here can be used in real life aswell. I definetly find the buddhism perspective very interesting...and entertaining!

Just awesome!!!

Posted over 5 years ago

lammy

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Really great! The way you guys has constucted this is very professional...I mean...I would probably watch this even if I had never played poker Poke Tongue...much of what you say here can be used in real life aswell. I definetly find the buddhism perspective very interesting...and entertaining!

Just awesome!!!


+1

Posted over 5 years ago

nakke

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Being emotionally attached to your cards, what does this exactly mean?

I think it means that you are connected to the cards you are getting like you own them,
but how does it really work?
How can someone ever get emotional attatched to a piece of paper with an A on it?


Pretty sure it means like you flopped a boat with T7 once and won your biggest pot ever, or won a tournament with it, or whatever like that, and after that you always want to play it since it has a "special value" for you.

Posted over 5 years ago

Tommy Angelo

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Being emotionally attached to your cards, what does this exactly mean?

I think it means that you are connected to the cards you are getting like you own them,
but how does it really work?
How can someone ever get emotional attatched to a piece of paper with an A on it?



You attach to the value that your mind assigns to it, in the same way you attach to a car or a lover. And since everything deteriorates and/or ends, attachment always causes suffering.

Tommy

Posted over 5 years ago

Tommy Angelo

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Looking at the graph, it seems like the 'eventually' has no c-game, while you say everybody has a C-game

So is the 'eventually' graph when you die?



Yup! That's one of the two things I had in mind when I decided to end the graph with a "flat line." The other is that it's possible to flat-line without dying. That has been called things like nirvana and satori. It means being in a state of non-resistance to everything. In that space, there is no C game, or A game or B game. There just is.

Tommy

Posted over 5 years ago

Tommy Angelo

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As I said, this is in no way a negative thing, and probably actually helps the learning process.



Agreed on both points. In this series, repetition (I prefer that word over "redundancy") isn't merely a part of the teaching method, it's also one of the lessons! (As you'll soon find out, repeatedly, in episode 3. :-) )

Tommy

Posted over 5 years ago

SnappieVouz

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Yup! That's one of the two things I had in mind when I decided to end the graph with a "flat line." The other is that it's possible to flat-line without dying. That has been called things like nirvana and satori. It means being in a state of non-resistance to everything. In that space, there is no C game, or A game or B game. There just is.

Tommy



So it's possible that you will end up having "your game", instead of "a, b or c game"?

Or do you mean that there is no A, B or C game because without an A-game there also isn't a B or C game, which makes it all connected to eachother and without A, C couldn't excist?

Posted over 5 years ago

Chazb0t

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elieliasson

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You attach to the value that your mind assigns to it, in the same way you attach to a car or a lover. And since everything deteriorates and/or ends, attachment always causes suffering.

Tommy



Everything you said before made me happy, this made me sad.
Isnt that the mindset of really lonly, and sad people. Possibly living
in a small house out in the mittle of no where, whitout family?

Posted over 5 years ago

Wayne Lively

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Being emotionally attached to your cards, what does this exactly mean?




Ever seen somebody who couldn't throw away AK after the flop? Many times players, esp tight players, feel they waited so long to get a good hand they can't throw it away, even if they are sure they are behind.

Ego has a lot to do with stuff, more than we want to believe.

Wayne

Posted over 5 years ago

Wayne Lively

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Everything you said before made me happy, this made me sad.
Isnt that the mindset of really lonly, and sad people. Possibly living
in a small house out in the mittle of no where, whitout family?



A big fallacy is detachment leads to emptiness. It is not, but a appreciation of fullness, which can only come with cessation of suffering. A true love is one without complication.

Tommy is no ascetic, but one of the best hedonists I know.

Wayne

Posted over 5 years ago

Wayne Lively

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So it's possible that you will end up having "your game", instead of "a, b or c game"?



I think of it like pi.

Posted over 5 years ago

Tommy Angelo

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ME:

You attach to the value that your mind assigns to it, in the same way you attach to a car or a lover. And since everything deteriorates and/or ends, attachment always causes suffering.



YOU:

Everything you said before made me happy, this made me sad.
Isnt that the mindset of really lonly, and sad people. Possibly living
in a small house out in the mittle of no where, whitout family?



Couple things...

Gratefulness in the moment means being content with your new car during the moments you are with it, without worrying about it getting scratched or old in the future, because right now, it's not scratched, and if you come outside tomorrow to find that someone did a hit-and-run on your parked car and crushed the bumper, then you would be exactly as content with your reality at that moment as you were yesterday. Non-attachment doesn't mean non-enjoyment. It means non-discontentment.

It's possible to live alone in a small house in the middle of nowhere with no family and be blissfully happy. If someone who lives alone in a small house in the middle of nowhere with no family is unhappy, it's not because of their circumstances, it's because of their attachment to mental formations in their mind as to how things "used to be" or how things "should be." If their body and mind were to actually live in the reality that actually is, they would not be unhappy.

Tommy

Posted over 5 years ago

Big Owl

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Gratefulness in the moment means being content with your new car during the moments you are with it, without worrying about it getting scratched or old in the future, because right now, it's not scratched, and if you come outside tomorrow to find that someone did a hit-and-run on your parked car and crushed the bumper, then you would be exactly as content with your reality at that moment as you were yesterday. Non-attachment doesn't mean non-enjoyment. It means non-discontentment.

It's possible to live alone in a small house in the middle of nowhere with no family and be blissfully happy. If someone who lives alone in a small house in the middle of nowhere with no family is unhappy, it's not because of their circumstances, it's because of their attachment to mental formations in their mind as to how things "used to be" or how things "should be." If their body and mind were to actually live in the reality that actually is, they would not be unhappy.

Tommy



Nice

Posted over 5 years ago

Entity

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Guys -- just FWIW, but MP3s of this have been added to the download menu. Smile

Rob

Posted over 5 years ago

Straydog

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Guys -- just FWIW, but MP3s of this have been added to the download menu. Smile

Rob



Great!

Posted over 5 years ago

Sounded Simple

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Gratefulness in the moment means being content with your new car during the moments you are with it, without worrying about it getting scratched or old in the future, because right now, it's not scratched, and if you come outside tomorrow to find that someone did a hit-and-run on your parked car and crushed the bumper, then you would be exactly as content with your reality at that moment as you were yesterday. Non-attachment doesn't mean non-enjoyment. It means non-discontentment.



This is something that I have been thinking about a lot and the above paragraph makes total sense in the context of a possession.

Translating that into poker and the quest for tiltlessness, how does our enjoyment of when it's going well relate to our possible tilt when it's not?

To use a typical example in NL, we have QQ in a blind battle against an aggressive player and ship over his 4-bet (assume we are totally confident and correct in analysis that all is +EV with the play).

Possibility 1:
Opponent shows JJ, river is a J. I'm totally fine with the fact that I need to disregard the river and concentrate my efforts on taking note of any information that the opponent has given me in this hand then prepare for the next.
Possibility 2:
Opponent shows AA, river is a Q. I think I'm not alone when I say this makes me happy, maybe even elated. I may even feel a little more alert and positive, my confidence is up and I am a step closer to "A Game".

My question is this:
Does our level of emotion in "Possibility 2" have an effect on our ability to control our emotion in "Possibility 1"?

I'm confused because (for me anyway) the positive emotion in "Possibility 2" can have a positive effect on mindset. However in this context wouldn't it be easier to aim for an unemotional reaction to both situations rather than try to filter good and bad emotion?
I should add that while I am aware of how I should react in "Possibility 1" I'm still very much in the learning process.

Posted over 5 years ago

shades

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Another great episode , nice work guys
Im confused about the goals and target discussion , you say goals are set up which result in sucess or failure , but should we not set up goals to help give us a direction , to have an idea where we want to go and then use targets as a means of what we need to do to get there.
As a small stakes player would you say its bad to make a goal which says for example, by the end of the year i hope to be playing and beating X limit. Then realise what must be done in order to acheive this goal and set up your targets.
Do you not think goals help you have motivation ? If i was to set up a goal which was to play 30k hands of poker next month do you not think id more likely play the 30k or close to it rather than if i had set up no goal and just played as much or as little as i felt like ?

Posted over 5 years ago

bluffindeuce

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Guys -- just FWIW, but MP3s of this have been added to the download menu. Smile

Rob


That's great, but why are the files double the size of the MP4?

Posted over 5 years ago

Entity

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That's great, but why are the files double the size of the MP4?


Because MP4 uses a significantly better compression algorithm for compressing the audio (HE-AACv2) which allows it bitrates of ~32kbps that sound similar or in many cases better than 128kbps recordings. The combined audio+video is smaller than the standard MP3 setting.

We may attempt some VBR-based encodes in the future but right now we wanted to get these a bit smaller and retain quality, but 42mb is about right, if not a bit on the small side, for nearly an hour of audio in MP3 format.

Rob

Posted over 5 years ago

Tommy Angelo

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This is something that I have been thinking about a lot and the above paragraph makes total sense in the context of a possession.

Translating that into poker and the quest for tiltlessness, how does our enjoyment of when it's going well relate to our possible tilt when it's not?

To use a typical example in NL, we have QQ in a blind battle against an aggressive player and ship over his 4-bet (assume we are totally confident and correct in analysis that all is +EV with the play).

Possibility 1:
Opponent shows JJ, river is a J. I'm totally fine with the fact that I need to disregard the river and concentrate my efforts on taking note of any information that the opponent has given me in this hand then prepare for the next.
Possibility 2:
Opponent shows AA, river is a Q. I think I'm not alone when I say this makes me happy, maybe even elated. I may even feel a little more alert and positive, my confidence is up and I am a step closer to "A Game".

My question is this:
Does our level of emotion in "Possibility 2" have an effect on our ability to control our emotion in "Possibility 1"?

I'm confused because (for me anyway) the positive emotion in "Possibility 2" can have a positive effect on mindset. However in this context wouldn't it be easier to aim for an unemotional reaction to both situations rather than try to filter good and bad emotion?



Instead of answering your question as asked, I'm going to revise it a little bit so that I can give the answer I want to give. :-) Let's pretend you had asked:

Should I aim for an unemotional reaction to both situations rather than try to filter good and bad emotion?

And the answer is...

YES!!

Losing to two-outers and winning with two-outers are both emotional spikes. It so happens that when you win with a two-outer, it means someone else lost to a two-outer, so the increase in EV that you feel isn't just from you feeling good, it's also from them feeling bad. The perfect player in my opinion collects from the other person feeling bad, but he doesn't need to gain extra EV from feeling good since he just plays like a rock-star all the time anyway. And, spikes of elation are caused by the same things as dips of despondency. To whatever extent you diminish one, you will diminish the other.

Meanwhile, it's fine and sensible to prioritize filtering out the bad emotions since they rate to be the most expensive, financially and otherwise.

I'm still very much in the learning process.



As are we all.

Tommy

Posted over 5 years ago

Tommy Angelo

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Another great episode , nice work guys
Im confused about the goals and target discussion , you say goals are set up which result in sucess or failure , but should we not set up goals to help give us a direction , to have an idea where we want to go and then use targets as a means of what we need to do to get there.
As a small stakes player would you say its bad to make a goal which says for example, by the end of the year i hope to be playing and beating X limit. Then realise what must be done in order to acheive this goal and set up your targets.
Do you not think goals help you have motivation ?



Yes.

If i was to set up a goal which was to play 30k hands of poker next month do you not think id more likely play the 30k or close to it rather than if i had set up no goal and just played as much or as little as i felt like ?



I don't know.

Let's make up a person. Joe sets a goal of 30k hands for the next month. Halfway through the month, he has played 5K hands. Do you think the act of setting up the goal will increase or decrease the likelihood that he will play his A-game tomorrow?

The discussion in the series about goals and targets is really a discussion of how we can be careful with our language so that it helps us and not hurt us. It's a topic that is so gray that there isn't even a speck of black or white around the edges.

As a small stakes player would you say its bad to make a goal which says for example, by the end of the year i hope to be playing and beating X limit.



It depends on how bad you will feel if you don't achieve your goal. I think you should use whatever words are most likely to keep you performing well, and not cause mental clutter than can keep you from reaching your [fill in blank here]. :-)

Tommy

Posted over 5 years ago

Rocknrollla

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I enjoyed this episode. Anticipation was the most interesting thing in this video for me.

Posted over 5 years ago

bellatrix

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What about in Stud, where position can constantly change, that is just emotionally wrecking. It's like one less thing to hold on to. No wonder I feel so lost in the Stud games all the time.

What if you had made up your mind to b/f, but then you get a tell that the c/r is not as strong as you thought it was. Can you still be surprised by that tell?

My goal is to watch every episode of this series Smile

Posted over 5 years ago

SnappieVouz

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About anticipation:
I am bluff monkey, sometimes I can't help myself and I just make a bluff for my entire stack,
when I shove the river, do I need to anticipate on a call?
Or is the hand over once the stack is in the middle?

Posted over 5 years ago

Wayne Lively

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Targets vs. goals really was an enlightenment for me, personally. (I had a lot of these and some of them are actually caught on tape.)

Goals set me up for a lot of emotional turmoil. As a habitual goal-setter, I am always looking into the future and falling far short of my goals, because I was taught that if you reach your goal you set them too low. This is a guarantee of mental anguish.

Changing my mindset to trying to hit targets puts me in the moment. A target has no future pass/fail, but is all about the present. Going from "I'm going to play 30K hands this month, to I'm going to set a target of playing this hand at this time as well as I can," is a big change for me. I no longer worry so much about the future, which I cannot control, and focus on the present, which is more controllable.

This eliminated a lot of suffering for me.

Wayne

Posted over 5 years ago

Wayne Lively

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539 posts
Joined 05/2007

I enjoyed this episode. Anticipation was the most interesting thing in this video for me.



You and me, both. Second only to Breathing. Both take a LOT of practice. If I could do anything over, I'd put more emphasis on anticipation. This is one of Tommy's biggest secrets. He anticipates so well that he is already in position to be calm before something happens.

I can't do it...yet.

I'm glad you brought this up because I think we didn't hammer it enough and this is my opportunity to do just that.

Thanks.

Posted over 5 years ago

Daybreak

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1 posts
Joined 03/2009

I don't really comment much here, but these series empressed me a lot. Never thought such topics are that interesting!

Posted over 5 years ago

a5wantinga10

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3 posts
Joined 08/2008

THE MUSIC TO THIS SERIES IS SO CALMING! LOVE IT! TOMMY UR VOICE IS VERY SEXY IYAM!

Posted over 5 years ago

Tommy Angelo

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What if you had made up your mind to b/f, but then you get a tell that the c/r is not as strong as you thought it was. Can you still be surprised by that tell?



I meant to go into that. Wayne probably interrupted me just when I was about to. :-)

At internet poker, you might get a timing tell that changes your mind. Or you might plan for it in advance, for example "If he checkraises fast, I'm shoving. If he takes a while and then checkraises, I'm folding."

At table poker, the same kind of "deciding to decide later" type of anticipation can come up, with many more variations, and all of them are fine in terms of being in a proper state of anticipation. There's a big difference between having decided to not decide yet what do to do because you are awaiting the arrival of new information (timing tells or physical tells), and being surprised by the raise itself. Being surprised is always bad IMO.

My goal is to watch every episode of this series Smile



Excellent combo of goals and anticipation! :-)

Tommy

Posted over 5 years ago

Tommy Angelo

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About anticipation:
I am bluff monkey, sometimes I can't help myself and I just make a bluff for my entire stack,
when I shove the river, do I need to anticipate on a call?
Or is the hand over once the stack is in the middle?



Anytime all your chips are in the pot, the only things to anticipate are what you are going to do if you win the pot, and what you are going to do if you lose the pot. I do this every time, and besides it helping me make good quitting/staying/rebuying-amount decisions, it also helps a ton with remaining focused and on my A-game when I lose the pot.

So back to your questions -- "Do I need to anticipate on a call?" -- the answer is yes. If you know you will lose if called, then you should anticipate what your next decisions will be if you are called, as in, quitting, changing tables, staying, and how much to rebuy for.

"Or is the hand over once the stack is in the middle?" Yes, the hand is over for you the moment your chips go in, but the game plays on.

Tommy

Posted over 5 years ago

critikal

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35 posts
Joined 04/2008

Tommy,

I think I might be the opposite from Wayne with regards to C-game. When I'm on my c-game I play too tight and make my decisions too quickly (typically while multi-tabling online). In the games I play in, most of the regulars play as many tables as I do (or more in some cases) and my C-game seems to consistently beat theirs. I know if I cut the number of tables I play in half that my overall win rate would go up, but it wouldn't double.

I was in vegas a few weeks ago and I found that I was in my C-game a lot. I was making decisions as if I had 3 other hands going at the same time. Even though my c-game leads me to making pretty decent overall decisions, I know that I would be playing better if I thought through each hand. While at the tables, I noticed I was not playing my best but had trouble pinpointing what the problem was. Now I know that I was making decisions too fast, but if I had known that at the table then I would not have been on my c-game.

I guess the problem is that my multi-tabling A-game that makes me money is really a C-game for someone playing in a live setting. While I don't play live often or for serious income, I know that developing different poker skills (be it live, heads up, or a different game) will benefit me in the long run.

What do you do to mentally prepare to play your A-game? I can only play one table of a heads-up game online, would that be a good place to work on my A-game? I feel that if I simply cut back on the number of ring game tables that I play, I'll still bring my C-game like I did in Vegas.

Thanks.

Posted over 5 years ago

Tommy Angelo

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248 posts
Joined 10/2007

Tommy,

I think I might be the opposite from Wayne with regards to C-game. When I'm on my c-game I play too tight and make my decisions too quickly (typically while multi-tabling online). In the games I play in, most of the regulars play as many tables as I do (or more in some cases) and my C-game seems to consistently beat theirs. I know if I cut the number of tables I play in half that my overall win rate would go up, but it wouldn't double.

I was in vegas a few weeks ago and I found that I was in my C-game a lot. I was making decisions as if I had 3 other hands going at the same time. Even though my c-game leads me to making pretty decent overall decisions, I know that I would be playing better if I thought through each hand. While at the tables, I noticed I was not playing my best but had trouble pinpointing what the problem was. Now I know that I was making decisions too fast, but if I had known that at the table then I would not have been on my c-game.

I guess the problem is that my multi-tabling A-game that makes me money is really a C-game for someone playing in a live setting. While I don't play live often or for serious income, I know that developing different poker skills (be it live, heads up, or a different game) will benefit me in the long run.

What do you do to mentally prepare to play your A-game? I can only play one table of a heads-up game online, would that be a good place to work on my A-game? I feel that if I simply cut back on the number of ring game tables that I play, I'll still bring my C-game like I did in Vegas.

Thanks.



critikal,

It sounds to me like you've got good awareness as to what your C-game is, when it appears, and some things you can do to reduce how often it shows up. One thing you might consider is to move making-the-most-money-I-can to a second level priority for a while. If you think you play better by playing half as many tables, but that your hourly earn will go down, well, that doesn't mean that playing half as many tables is a bad idea. I think that if you look at the long run, it's more important to learn how to play your A-game consistently than it is to make a few extra bucks today. If you feel that way too, then now is the time to make some changes to that end. Think of it as training. As to what changes to make, I don't know you well enough to suggest any particulars.

What do you do to mentally prepare to play your A-game?



Oh my lordy. Lots. What I eat, how I sleep, how I walk, how I sit. Pretty much everything I do you could think of as A-game prep. Oh, you asked about mental preparation and everything I said was physical. Well, I guess my mental preparation is done by leaving my mind out it and just trying to be present while I'm playing.

Tommy

Posted over 5 years ago

Wayne Lively

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539 posts
Joined 05/2007

What do you do to mentally prepare to play your A-game?



The entire eight hours of EPTPE is dedicated to mentally preparing to play your A game. Don't get frustrated. It is a process, a long process, and results are incremental. I am much better, but way far away at the same time.

Everything Tommy teaches--and I resist--are supposed to improve your A game by lopping off the C game. Do as I say, not as I do. Smile

Good luck.

Wayne

Posted over 5 years ago

SnappieVouz

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2620 posts
Joined 03/2009

If you really aply what tommy angelo says in his book and only already this 2 episodes your tilt reduces a lot,
but I found its a constant battle to contain A-game

The hardest battle in poker. I think all DC member can be very lucky with this serie

Big up for Tommy and Wayne

Posted over 5 years ago

Tommy Angelo

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248 posts
Joined 10/2007

Do as I say, not as I do. Smile

Good luck.

Wayne



You reminded me of a T-shirt I gave my Uncle Nick about 100 years ago. Nick is a major fan of Fra... oh, wait, I almost spoiled it. Okay, here's what the shirt said:

"TO BE IS TO DO." -- Socrates

"TO DO IS TO BE." -- Sartre

"DO-BE-DO-BE-DO" -- Sinatra

Posted over 5 years ago

Fish1000

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11 posts
Joined 02/2008

Sickness!

This is the best poker series ever made on any training site.

Posted over 5 years ago

sostegno

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42 posts
Joined 09/2008

When do we get the other episodes? Cancelled?

Posted over 5 years ago

dia

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227 posts
Joined 08/2008

after playing 5k hands of my c game and loosing about 1$/hand I need to get rid of it, thanks to my awful C game my winrate looks so small....

Posted over 5 years ago

JammyJenny

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208 posts
Joined 06/2008

Pickaface

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463 posts
Joined 10/2008

Sickness!

This is the best poker series ever made on any training site.



Without doubt! Tommy Angelo you're the king and I don't think the series would be this great without Wayne since you two guys toghether make this series perfect.

Posted over 5 years ago

erby

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185 posts
Joined 01/2009

Time Link to 00:04:24

Do you think that your win rate would be better in the middle of the day with all the pros playing or on a friday night when you're a little tired but there are less pros / more inexperienced players playing.

I struggle with this a lot, and part of the reason i don't play in the day. Maybe I should start playing in the day because I'm more awake?

Posted over 5 years ago

Tommy Angelo

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248 posts
Joined 10/2007

Do you think that your win rate would be better in the middle of the day with all the pros playing or on a friday night when you're a little tired but there are less pros / more inexperienced players playing.

I struggle with this a lot, and part of the reason i don't play in the day. Maybe I should start playing in the day because I'm more awake?



I think it's better to make playing your best and feeling your best the priorities. If you have to play when your tired in order to pay the bills, that's one thing. But if you don't, don't.

Posted over 5 years ago

MattSLY

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1001 posts
Joined 11/2008

Time Link to 00:41:23

IMO there has to be a right thinking about goals/targets that embraces the planning process. Human brains have evolved to have very powerful visualization/imagination powers and an ability to understand cause/effect relationships that enable us to plan for the future in a way that no other animal can. The main reason why humans are so successful is because they can plan for the future. So I think that a concept of right thinking should embrace our ability to plan since it is fundamental to being human and our survival. And it definitely shouldn't be viewed as wrong from any philosophy, eastern or western.

Now, worrying about the future is obv pretty bad and should be avoided. But proactive thinking about the future should be embraced IMO.

I like to have poker goals for myself and I don't feel bad if I don't meet them. I like to have a direction to move in and motivation to get there and my goals do that for me.

Posted over 5 years ago

Pickaface

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463 posts
Joined 10/2008

That is exactly the case for me too. Trying to reach targets instead of thinking "I hope I'll play x-stake in a year" etc is changing my mindset.

Thank you guys for making an excellent series!

Posted about 5 years ago

Dzikijohnny

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142 posts
Joined 12/2009

Time Link to 00:36:13

The following part about the difference between goals and targets really really reached me and made a big impact in my thinking.

Posted almost 5 years ago

run.it.twice

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29 posts
Joined 05/2009

flight2q

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54 posts
Joined 05/2007

AFAIK. A target is something you shoot at. A goal is something you kick at.

Posted almost 5 years ago

elorean

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718 posts
Joined 05/2009

first time I see the series but great thumbs up,
the best tilt control: watch this series of videosSmile

Posted over 4 years ago

irtoast

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170 posts
Joined 09/2009

I enjoyed this episode. Anticipation was the most interesting thing in this video for me.




I agree. Every hand I play now, i'm anticipating that I get raised or bet into. Feels good when it doesn't happen, but when it does I was ready for it.

Posted over 4 years ago

BustedUFish

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5 posts
Joined 05/2008

just discovered it and its delightful!!!

Posted over 4 years ago

ceegee

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622 posts
Joined 05/2008

Time Link to 00:21:09

So do you think people don't 3 bet enough on the btn?

Posted almost 4 years ago

Anonomous1

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75 posts
Joined 12/2010

The piano music in this video is really good, who's the artist?

Posted over 3 years ago

XtremeUngar

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34 posts
Joined 09/2009

Love this series... amazing stuff... gonna check out the book which I only glanced into before... The music is also awesome... amazing production overall.... I agree with almost 100% Tommy and Soepgroente said in this thread.... u guys rock

Posted over 3 years ago

SavingForBenz

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648 posts
Joined 12/2011

Is it C-game that I watch this on the cross trainer?

Posted almost 3 years ago

kamitis

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3 posts
Joined 09/2012

Time Link to 00:23:29

This point is really great for new player like me. Thanks.

Posted about 2 years ago

OranRai

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59 posts
Joined 02/2010

OranRai

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59 posts
Joined 02/2010

Time Link to 00:38:30

Same as goals and objectives. in general we could say that :
.Goals are generic, long term and may be not measurable and tangible.
.Objectives are specific actions measurable and tangible, mid term / short term.
We have to define our goal and define objectives (targets, steps) to achieve this goal.

Posted almost 2 years ago

ohinever

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8 posts
Joined 07/2013



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