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Poker Video: Misc/Other by Tommy Angelo (Micro/Small Stakes)

lol It seems this episode was made for me.

I know berating the fish is a bad thing to do, but I do exactly the same as Wayne does. I get a bad beat and I just NEED to tell my opponent that he/she played the hand horrible.
I do this super sarcastic by saying "nice hand, you played that hand SUPER well, calling the flop, and calling almost your whole stack off to hit on the river, SUPER.. you are going to be the next Phil ivey!!"

After that I already feel bad by doing it

Something I also do is when I had a horrible session jumping into the forum/aim to tell everybody poker is a game of luck

man, this was a great episode. Awareness, i love it

I know berating the fish is a bad thing to do, but I do exactly the same as Wayne does. I get a bad beat and I just NEED to tell my opponent that he/she played the hand horrible.
I do this super sarcastic by saying "nice hand, you played that hand SUPER well, calling the flop, and calling almost your whole stack off to hit on the river, SUPER.. you are going to be the next Phil ivey!!"

After that I already feel bad by doing it

#2

But I feel good afterwards.


Not berating the fish after a bad beat makes it more likely that I go on tilt although I really don't have big tilt issues. It's sort of like an outlet.


Maybe this episode will help me to get rid of it entirely. So far this (awesome) series really helped improving my overall game.

Great series, this might just be one step towards tiltlessness for me. My biggest leak

It was not easy confessing my sins. This is my biggest problem. I don't really tilt in the traditional sense, but I sure do when it comes to taking a hammer to the glass. Mostly it's ego. You know you are smarter than they are, and by accusing them (accurately) of being fish, you maintain your superiority in the face of evidence you're an idiot.

If I could change one thing I do, this is it. Do as I say, not as I do.

Glad you guys are enjoying the series. It is our contribution to mankind.

Best wishes,

Wayne

Hm i didn't know i had such a huge ego

I got a lot of testoteron though

It was not easy confessing my sins. This is my biggest problem. I don't really tilt in the traditional sense, but I sure do when it comes to taking a hammer to the glass. Mostly it's ego. You know you are smarter than they are, and by accusing them (accurately) of being fish, you maintain your superiority in the face of evidence you're an idiot.

If I could change one thing I do, this is it. Do as I say, not as I do.

Glad you guys are enjoying the series. It is our contribution to mankind.

Best wishes,

Wayne

Sorry but this comes off as pure hubris. 8(

In the video you said something about the famous "I didn't get what I deserve." And it obviously is wrong speech. But by not saying it I recon that it still is in my head and I still think it. I can manage to not say anything, but I still think it. And thinking about it makes me suffer. So how can I get it out of my mind? It's like you said in the beginning, by closing my mouth it sticks in my head and, well it doesn't literally explode eventually but it feels like.

Something I experienced maybe a year ago was when I played a big tournament with my friends. We all played and talked on skype. And on the money bubble everyone had a healthy chipstack expect me. Then I caught AA and went all in just to get called by 66 and he rivered me. So I went out of the tournament just before the money while all my friends were still in. I wasn't actually mad at the guy with 66. It was me busting out just before the money through a rough beat and everyone else making the money. They sort of ignored it and just said "oh, that's bad" and went on talking about their hands and other things. So I basically wanted them to express condolences to me just to feel better. And the really bad part was when I hoped that they would bust out quickly too so I am not the one left behind. And I really feel bad about hoping my friends would bust out.
But even if I didn't say anything after busting out (and I didn't tell them that I hoped they would bust) I still feel so bad and it still is in my mind.

Oh there's something I wanna add to right speech on the internet: Writing properly, and properly meaning writing capital letters, commas, don't instead of dont etc., is a big part of right speech I think. It makes you reflect more on what you write and it's just easier to read for others.

just wanted to say thanks for being awesome. offering videos like the eightfold path to poker enlightment in FOUR different formats AND drm free is really cool. keep up the good work.

just wanted to say thanks for being awesome. offering videos like the eightfold path to poker enlightment in FOUR different formats AND drm free is really cool. keep up the good work.

we do what we can.

Rob

like the piano riff at 19:50. pithy. dont like cutting the Stones like a rainbow short right before the delicious part, its like not getting off with sex. these are my thoughts.

In the video you said something about the famous "I didn't get what I deserve." And it obviously is wrong speech. But by not saying it I recon that it still is in my head and I still think it. I can manage to not say anything, but I still think it. And thinking about it makes me suffer. So how can I get it out of my mind?

By training your mind so that you are able to take charge of what is and isn't going on in your mind at any given moment. A simple (not to be confused with easy, cuz it ain't) and effective way to do this training is to count your breaths many times every day.

Oh there's something I wanna add to right speech on the internet: Writing properly, and properly meaning writing capital letters, commas, don't instead of dont etc., is a big part of right speech I think. It makes you reflect more on what you write and it's just easier to read for others.

Here's an article I wrote on that topic. This was an argument I couldn't possibly lose! :-)

http://tommyangelo.com/articles/its_all_well_and_good.htm

Fantastic series.

I'm curious about some aspects of table talk, specifically shutdown answers. I've often responded to "what did you have" with "cards and chips." I'm wondering if that's just a little too smartass. Should I just shut up when confronted with that question?

My wife loves cats, but has a phobia of green tree frogs. Thus, the end of the video was very much joy turned to suffering.

Love the series, big part of why I signed up to DC.

-Luke

Fantastic series.

I'm curious about some aspects of table talk, specifically shutdown answers. I've often responded to "what did you have" with "cards and chips." I'm wondering if that's just a little too smartass. Should I just shut up when confronted with that question?

It's really amazing how many questions at the poker table just scream out for some kind of smart ass reply. "What did you have" is very often one of those questions. You really only have four choices: Give an actual answer, meaning cards, that sounds serious (even if it's a lie), ignore the questioner entirely, give a smartass reply (such as "cards and chips"), or tell the real truth, such as "I'd rather not say."

I've done them all a zillion times each. Not saying anything is not ideal. But for me, nowadays, it's always the correct "least of evils" choice. The think that makes silence so much better than any of the others in my opinion is that any reaction at all brings you down to the level of the questioner. It means that you care about the question, and the answer, and the opinions formed because of them. It sends a message that you care about all the stuff that is exactly the same stuff that makes it impossible to really focus on the next hand. Basically it means you are just like the person who asked the question. If you want to separate yourself from him/them, then silence is the only way.

But let's say that's not an option. Of the remaining options, I think a smart-ass answer is the worst choice. But it's close.

Tommy

My wife loves cats, but has a phobia of green tree frogs. Thus, the end of the video was very much joy turned to suffering.

:-)

Maybe I'm wrong, but I think the argument that not chatting is +EV from informational standpoint isn't always true.
If someone can extract more information than his opponents from chatting, it can be +EV to chat and provoke responses.
Colin Moshman wrote this about showing hands: if it provokes your opponent to show too, and you use the information better, it's +EV to start showing your hands.

Actually, this is the single most important thing that prevent's me from just disabling chat.

Epic series, fantastic classic videos.... I was thinking if you could make a bonus video with possibly any other tidbits or answers to questions... and then end it with a mini concert perhaps ten or fifteen minutes where we can see you playing... i think it would be fantastic, and maybe at the end you could give a da da da da thats all folks it would be a great finish for an all time video series thank you and Wayne very much for all your efforts

#2

But I feel good afterwards.


Not berating the fish after a bad beat makes it more likely that I go on tilt although I really don't have big tilt issues. It's sort of like an outlet.


Maybe this episode will help me to get rid of it entirely. So far this (awesome) series really helped improving my overall game.

i haven't had a chance to watch this yet, so it might have been said in the video, but at least for online poker, i found it very healthy to recently exclude myself from pokerstars chat.
i just sent them an email, after once more i said pretty horrible things to some donk (i would be ashamed of repeating what i said), and so now i have been self excluded for 1 1/2 months and it's great. i simply CANNOT type anything.
funny enough though, i still sometimes do and hit enter?!
lol

Maybe I'm wrong, but I think the argument that not chatting is +EV from informational standpoint isn't always true.
If someone can extract more information than his opponents from chatting, it can be +EV to chat and provoke responses.
Actually, this is the single most important thing that prevent's me from just disabling chat.

My point in this debate is if you do chat, you are increasing the possibility of making a mistake. Does the risk outweigh the possible reward? Is there ego involved? Can you be sure?

It's easy to delude oneself into rationalizing actions, so easy that it raises the risks to a very high level. By thinking about it and making a conscious decision, you may lower the risks to an acceptable amount.

This makes poker players smarter than the average politician. The ability to think about long-term consequences.

Really loving the series so far, every episode so far has been great, this one wasn't an exception.

This makes poker players smarter than the average politician. The ability to think about long-term consequences.

Bailouts come to mind.

So this bi-weekly release schedule... is that some stealthy way of forcing me to practice patience or something?

Why can't it be next Tuesday NOW?

Thanks for the response, Tommy. I'm a terrible liar, so looks like I'll be sticking with silence or "I'd rather not say."

Mrage, you can use the time to review earlier episodes. I find just sitting and listening to one calming and uplifting.

My poker game is still struggling, but the Eight Fold Path has made me a far happier, positive and motivated person in general. This series is just incredible.

I love the quote about someone seeing Tommy for poker, which took several shots off their golf game. This happened to me after listening to The Eight Fold Path! I went out on Sunday and hit some shots I didn't even know I had in me. My putter was running ridiculously hot, I got up & down on five consecutive holes - which is better than good for me. I put it all down to mindfulness, my new favorite thing. 'mindful breathing, mindful posture' is so crucial to good golf.

I've been using 'right-speech' at work with awesome results. It's lifted the whole mood in my office.

Thanks Tommy and DC!

Swampy

I think HU chatting with bad regulars is a lot +EV because some tilts badly and the same is true 6max against some medium opponents.

To say I am impressed by this series would be an understatement. This series is worth the 30 bux a month by itself. I know it probably doesn't really mean much to these guys, but Tommy Angelo has earned my respect for putting into words concepts that I have thought about but never quite grasped as well as I do now. This particular episode hits home for me because I used to be a big mouth...I can still be if I don't watch myself.

Thank you Tommy. And Wayne too

Tommy I really hope DC gives u and Wayne a new series soon. U guys
are great and the back and forth camaraderie is gr8. This is the honest
truth, I signed up for DC just for the free trial and the first video I saw was episode 1 and bam couldnt quit. Anyway hope this is not it for u guys and u have many series to come.

Time Link to 00:02:01

what is this song/melody?

what is this song/melody?

Stairway to Heaven by Led Zeppelin. The next two piano inserts are other parts of the same song.

Stairway to Heaven, Led Zeppelin.

like the piano riff at 19:50. pithy. dont like cutting the Stones like a rainbow short right before the delicious part, its like not getting off with sex. these are my thoughts.

I have to agree to this. Still, this is an amazing series and the piano makes it that much better. I think I need to download the intro music and listen to it before each session, or rather, during the session. Repeatedly! That way I know I won't go on tilt due to it's soothing sound and associations it generates.

I think I need to download the intro music

Ask, and...

http://www.tommyangelo.com/music/Theme-Music-start-of-all-episodes.mp3

http://www.tommyangelo.com/music/Theme-Music-end-of-episode1.mp3

http://www.tommyangelo.com/music/Theme-Music-end-of-episode2.mp3

Thanks for the links Tommy, have you got any plans to put out some of the music you played during the series on mp3 or CD? The songs like Stairway to Heaven and She's a Rainbow and stuff?

Thanks for the links Tommy, have you got any plans to put out some of the music you played during the series on mp3 or CD? The songs like Stairway to Heaven and She's a Rainbow and stuff?

Yes. It'll all be up at my site (mp3s) within a week or couple months. lol Seriously!

Yes. It'll all be up at my site (mp3s) within a week or couple months. lol Seriously!

Excellent! Thank you!

Thank you from me, too. Very rarely can I relax that much like when I'm listening to your music. This is of the things that make this series more than a bare poker video series for me.

Thanks for the links Tommy, have you got any plans to put out some of the music you played during the series on mp3 or CD? The songs like Stairway to Heaven and She's a Rainbow and stuff?

I just put all of the music from the series at this page:

http://www.tommyangelo.com/the-eightfold-path-to-poker-enlightenment.html

Also there: some of the drawings and images from the series, some text about "the making of," and some older music of mine.

Tommy

Fantastic series so far. Im really interested in learning some things about Buddhism and meditation now. Tommy, do you have recommendations for books or other material on this subject? (i just ordered yours

do you have recommendations for books or other material on this subject?

Yep...

http://tommyangelo.com/meditation_101.html

I have always find it funny that people berathe the fish for making a bad play while they are making a bad poker decision themselves, namely wrong speech.

What do you think is the best thing to do when people berathe the fish? Do nothing or report it to the moderators in online poker?

What do you think is the best thing to do when people berathe the fish? Do nothing or report it to the moderators in online poker?

Do nothing.

Time Link to 00:48:16

Hey Wayne and Tommy,

I'm just re-watching the series ~1 year later (as per recommended). I want to say thanks again for all the time and effort that went into this.

I'm glad you addressed responding to open-ended questions (where a yes/no answer will not suffice). I played a live hand since my initial viewing of this episode that I want to get your thoughts on.

10/20 Borgata Full
I open the button with some cheese, like 94s or so.
Some action goes in post flop and the hand gets to showdown.
I roll the winning hand and drag the pot.
Big blind (who lost the hand): "I don't know how you raise with that..."
Me: "I just put the four chips out there."

Shutoff answer?

Hey Wayne and Tommy,

I'm just re-watching the series ~1 year later (as per recommended). I want to say thanks again for all the time and effort that went into this.

I'm glad you addressed responding to open-ended questions (where a yes/no answer will not suffice). I played a live hand since my initial viewing of this episode that I want to get your thoughts on.

10/20 Borgata Full
I open the button with some cheese, like 94s or so.
Some action goes in post flop and the hand gets to showdown.
I roll the winning hand and drag the pot.
Big blind (who lost the hand): "I don't know how you raise with that..."
Me: "I just put the four chips out there."

Shutoff answer?

I would say no. It's not an shutoff answer because you were not asked a question. I would call what you said a voluntary statement. (It could be taken as a smartass statement, or as a genuinely enjoyable fun statement, depending on the exact tone of the whole situation.) I think the best reaction to what your opponent said would have been silence.

That said, what you said does have a shutoff quality to it in that it doesn't invite the conversation to continue.

Time Link to 00:50:10

Really fantastic Series, loving every episode more than I have the last. This music interval is really soothing and I'd love to get hold of it. What's the music/melody?

Really fantastic Series, loving every episode more than I have the last. This music interval is really soothing and I'd love to get hold of it. What's the music/melody?

It's the song "Hurricane" by Neil Young. That track, and almost all the other music from the series, is on this page. Just keep on scrolling.

http://tommyangelo.com/the-eightfold-path-to-poker-enlightenment.html

Time Link to 00:32:39

i try not to be an asshole because i feel like kharma will smack me in the face, so the fear of getting that kharma would cause me to play timidly or feel uneasy while playing, so that's my reason for not being an asshole.

Thats crazy, I'm in Columbus Ohio and "slippery" and "Nervous" still deal at the charity game

I think talking about "tapping the aquarium" and "fish", etc, are also wrong speech. I have always had a problem with such language among players.

Time Link to 00:12:48

What your standpoint about turning the chat off completly?

What your standpoint about turning the chat off completly?

If you think that's a good idea for you, then it almost certainly is.

If you think that's a good idea for you, then it almost certainly is.

Thanks i that will help a lot the coming period.
This is the first serie i watch complety in a breath i think i will do it again in the next 2 month.
This was defintly worth my subsricption with deucescracked.

Im verry gratefull to watch this im 100% sure this is the turning point not only in my pokerlife but in real life also. Im usualy not so a suck up. But i dont care what other people think anymore.
Breathing is the best advise i got to relax and it worked a lot allready. I will follow a mindfulness course next month but i allready learn a lot from you.

Also i was just watching a Interview with Jose “Girah” Macedo on pokerstatic and the also mentioning you........i guesse your the PokerGuru of the community.....lol

I think the best way to start this new way is to sacrifice some current and old habbits;-).
Could you do a VID about sacrifice?

Thanks for your reply and for the life changing series.
Ken

People don't think enough about where the money comes from in poker. Recreational players play because they want to have a good time and being sarcastic and nasty etc at the table just puts them off and they leave and take their money with them.

I was in a situation once where the game was being built completely around a single very loose passive player and one of the aggressive regulars was being so nasty to me in chat trying to put me on tilt (I managed not to respond but it was hard) that the bad deepstacked recreational player got up and left the table. Definitely -EV for everyone.

Might I suggest that there are benefits to keeping the chat visible, even though you fully intend not to contribute to it. Think of it as information reciprocality. Seeing the comments of other players gives you a read on what their state of mind is, and reinforces what you might expect from them, eg. how badly have they taken the beat from the last hand etc.

A related point regarding "right speech" in general. It's well known that Daniel Negreanu chats a lot during table poker to provoke information from his opponents. I would strongly advise other players from assuming they can easily adopt this practice, since it takes a real master to be able to make it work, but in principle it demonstrates that "right speech" isn't necessarily no speech. Provided that you have awareness of your speech, its impact on others and on yourself, you can use it to your advantage.

I'm on the right track here right?

there are benefits to keeping the chat visible, even though you fully intend not to contribute to it. Seeing the comments of other players gives you a read on what their state of mind is

Agreed.

A related point regarding "right speech" in general. It's well known that Daniel Negreanu chats a lot during table poker to provoke information from his opponents. I would strongly advise other players from assuming they can easily adopt this practice, since it takes a real master to be able to make it work, but in principle it demonstrates that "right speech" isn't necessarily no speech. Provided that you have awareness of your speech, its impact on others and on yourself, you can use it to your advantage.

I'm on the right track here right?

I think so.

A couple related add-ons are 1) independent of whether we decide to use speaking as an information gathering tool, we still need to be rehearsed at how to be on the receiving end of an interrogation and come out ahead. 2) Even an expert at the vocal game needs to also be an expert at the quiet game for those times when it occurs naturally or on purpose.

Time Link to 00:49:43

Wow! Sixth street might be my biggest leak! A lot of other pros too.

Time Link to 00:06:53

im not much of a talked myself, but couldnt keeping all of this emotion inside lead to negative consiquences too? is this more of an add on to right thinking and almost a reminder of it?
i guess i just feel that if you suppress those emotions they could cause more damage.

im not much of a talked myself, but couldnt keeping all of this emotion inside lead to negative consiquences too? is this more of an add on to right thinking and almost a reminder of it?
i guess i just feel that if you suppress those emotions they could cause more damage.

Hi Matt,

The idea of "keeping emotions inside" and "suppressing those emotions" is precisely the opposite of what is taught by Buddhist teachers. It's unfortunate that the passage at 00:06:53 made you think otherwise!

With anger, for example, the suggested approach is to hold it close, to study it, to review it, after the fact, and if possible, while it is going on. To embrace it. To see it an a part of yourself, just like a finger. It's not good or bad. And it's definitely not something to hide or run away from. If the objective is to have your anger cause less damage than it does now, then the best approach is to treat anger as almost like a hobby, something you tinker with and improve on every day.

All of that, as you can see, is nothing at all like "suppression."

Tommy

thanks. i just finished this series and took a "bad beat" almost simultaneously
on impulse i went "dammit." then i stopped sat up straight and tried to breath, then i thought, why am i mad? i dont get mad when i lose in sports... so im mad now because it was out of my control?? that seems like a bad reason to be frustrated.
and just like that the madness was gone. so i can see what you mean, staying mad on the inside and studying it are very different things and im very happy i watched this series.
thanks alot.

matt.

Just finished the sixth episode - looking forward to the last two...sad that the series will be over, but looking forward to have your luggage with me for the rest of the journey.

Just ordered a piano *insert biggest smiley on the internet*

all the best

Just ordered a piano *insert biggest smiley on the internet*

*insert yer basic smiley*

Tommy great music selection, you played my favorite Neil Young song, I think we should all Take Five and listen some good music.

I had been pushing a lot in a live 1k mtt and a guy asked me why dont I ever see a flop, I answered and gave him information. What is a good answer to deflect the attention off of me but give no information?

It's your turn? Nothing? No ables english? random word? ruttabegga?

Just depends. If you have the balls to totally ignore someone who asks you a point blank question, then I think you should display them when appropriate.