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Poker Video: No Limit Hold'Em by WiltOnTilt (Mid Stakes)

Awesome! Thanks for this.

Sounds like a good reason to keep my subscription

On the first hand you didn't mention T9 as part of his range. I think it's very possible that he has T9 as well as QJ like you said, maybe an ace or some goofy Ts. When I though about the amount of our river bet I thought about 220ish. You said a shove is a possibility but I don't like shoving. betting 220 has the same effect as shoving I guess (but not the same as 140ish) and saves 100$.

edit: I wrote this before I saw his hand

On the 2nd hand I don't agree with what you think his turn potbet means. I don't think he has KK or 99 here a lot, he probably is scared of a K on the turn and when we check back he realizes he is good and wants value with like QQ-TT or A9. He might have KJ and is scared of us having a better kicker. A9 being kinda unlikely I would call. If he has KJ so be it.

Yeah! Sukiyaki Western Django style intro! Love. It.

"lone rangers", lol, apparently im not the only one who liked that band name

Time Link to 01:06:10

In the 3 bet pot where you had 8h5h on a 8cAsKh4h board can you explain why you decided to check/raise vs check/call? This seems like a situation where no better hands will fold and no worse hands will call, so why not just check/call?

Give the man that makes the intros a beer from me will ya?

Your Wu-Tang style trumps his shaolin style.

Really proud of you, Aaron. From 2/4 on Party Poker to your own Dojo. You the man.

Very nice video. Not only for HU. All NLHE players should watch this.

lol that titantom guy is not exactly a donkey. He might be at HUNL from your read but he crushes HSMTTs

lol that titantom guy is not exactly a donkey. He might be at HUNL from your read but he crushes HSMTTs

-27k on PTR and an entire downswing.

The 34ss hand seems amazing to me. I can never make that kind of float/play/calldown. Guess i need more hands/heart.

-27k on PTR and an entire downswing.

The 34ss hand seems amazing to me. I can never make that kind of float/play/calldown. Guess i need more hands/heart.

ya but i think hes up a few hundred k from mtts

yeah, about tom, the interesting thing IS that he was running some good, believable bluffs at times that it almost made me think he had a clue. so i guess what you say kinda makes some sense.

looking at his sharkscope he's had a couple big scores but overall after thousands of them he's up like 100k. that's not crushing, is it? especially when you've dusted off like 40k in cash games.

here's my favorite hand of the match (aside from when he 5bet shipped 86o preflop for 200bbs and rivered a flush vs my AK)

Full Tilt Poker $3/$6 No Limit Hold'em - 2 players
The Official DeucesCracked.com Hand History Converter

Hero (BB): $2249.00
BTN/SB: $1298.50

Pre Flop: ($9.00) Hero is BB with J T
BTN/SB raises to $18, Hero calls $12

Flop: ($36.00) 8 7 9 (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN/SB checks

Turn: ($36.00) 2 (2 players)
Hero bets $36, BTN/SB raises to $114, Hero requests TIME, Hero raises to $366, BTN/SB requests TIME, BTN/SB calls $252

River: ($768.00) 7 (2 players)
Hero bets $1865 all in, BTN/SB requests TIME, BTN/SB calls $914.50 all in

Final Pot: $2597.00
Hero shows J T (a straight, Jack high)
BTN/SB mucks 8 3
Hero wins $2596.50
(Rake: $0.50)

The 34ss hand seems amazing to me. I can never make that kind of float/play/calldown. Guess i need more hands/heart.

with that guys barreling frequency though, aaron's definitely right that 3-betting's the play if i wanna continue there.

but then on the turn hey we have a pair and his barreling frequency is so high that it's a pretty easy call.

the reason i called the river was his bet size more than anything, if he bets half pot i fold there and don't think twice about it (he was one of the bluff big valuebet small guys, goofy goofy)

ya for sure. seems pretty terribel and HUNL but i think sharkscope has only included results form mtts for like 6 months and those mtt guys play on ever site so i am pretty sure the guy has scores on various sites.

and LOL at that hand

On the 43o hand where you snapped off T8o river bluff...

That hand just goes to show you how bad floating is. You lose that pot every time you don't turn a pair.

On the 43o hand where you snapped off T8o river bluff...

That hand just goes to show you how bad floating is. You lose that pot every time you don't turn a pair.

well yeah i already said as much, so did aaron, and it was pretty obvious to everyone else but thanks for pointing it out.

unfortunately i don't play perfectly at all times.

well yeah i already said as much, so did aaron, and it was pretty obvious to everyone else but thanks for pointing it out.

lol. nice retort

nh's.

well yeah i already said as much, so did aaron, and it was pretty obvious to everyone else but thanks for pointing it out.

unfortunately i don't play perfectly at all times.

someone who is this sensative to a "critical" post.. must tilt like a mofo.. eightfold path.. breath

Wasn't attempting to attack or criticize. Apologies for unnecessarily stirring anything up. Cheers.

In the 3 bet pot where you had 8h5h on a 8cAsKh4h board can you explain why you decided to check/raise vs check/call? This seems like a situation where no better hands will fold and no worse hands will call, so why not just check/call?

part of the reason we have to checkraise here against good players is because they wont play straight up to our c/c on the turn. so it's quite conceivable that if we c/c the turn we're going to get bluffed a fair amount on the river when we are best.

there's a concept i've talked a bit about with jk3a before and it's where we are certain a turn checkraise all in is profitable but we're uncertain about the guys river bluffing frequency. if we think he bluffs the river a ton, then c/c, c/c would be better. if we think he doesn't bluff the river much, then we can c/c and c/f a lot. however, if we aren't sure then we potentially make a big mistake on the river (either by folding incorrectly or calling incorrectly) whereas if we jam the turn it's almost certainly +EV.

Also, I don't think it's completely outside the realm of possibility for him to turn some slightly better hands into bluffs on the turn if he thinks my turn c/c'ing range isn't strong enough to c/c rivers too...but i agree there aren't tons of better hands that are making a "standard" turn bet/fold.

WoT

Regarding the first hand T8o where you suggest to overbetshove the river: I am a little confused with these spots I remember watching a vid here on DC where someone made a call in this spot (I think it was NoahSD)because villain would bet less with the "flush" (don't remember exactly) and his hand looked like marginal SDV so he expected a smallish valuebet in case villain had a big hand.

In the A8 hands where you say the plan is to check call the turn. Say he does bet and you can check call. What do you think his action will be on the river and how will you react to it ? In other words, what is your river line ?

Awesome series btw, love the analysis looking forward to the rest.

I agree that CRAI turn is +EV, but I'm not convinced that it is more +EV than just taking the check/call turn and check/call river line *regardless* of villain's river bluff frequencies.

For example,

Case 1:
villain value bets turn and river with a real hand and we do not improve. -> we lose all our chips whether we CRAI turn or check/call down.

Case 2:
villain value bets turn and river with a real hand and we do improve. -> overwhelming majority of the time we win the hand.

Case 3:
villain value bets turn but checks back river and river does not improve our hand. -> we lose less chips taking the check/call down line.

case 4:
villain value bets turn but checks back river and river does improve our hand. -> we win less chips taking the check/call down line.

Case 5:
villain bluffs turn and bluffs river. -> we win more chips taking the check/call down line.


Since most of the time we do not improve our hand on the river, case 3 occurs more often than case 4 so if villain is always checking back river we lose less money taking the check/call down line vs CRAI. And it's easy to see that cases 1,2,5 taken as a whole makes more money than taking the CRAI line. Given the above I think we actually need villain to be bet/folding better hands a decent portion of the time for a CRAI to be better than just calling down, but I don't think the vast majority of players are bet/folding turn with better hands often enough for this to be true.

Time Link to 00:52:57

Wow, this didn't even come to mind when I was watching this hand, I was pretty convinced from watching your commentary you would call him here and pick off those hands he turned into bluffs. This line however seems much more effective since now you do fold out better in the two pairs he randomly shows up with and if you get shoved on here you can be fairly certain he has a flush. That was a head explosion moment.

Regarding the first hand T8o where you suggest to overbetshove the river: I am a little confused with these spots I remember watching a vid here on DC where someone made a call in this spot (I think it was NoahSD)because villain would bet less with the "flush" (don't remember exactly) and his hand looked like marginal SDV so he expected a smallish valuebet in case villain had a big hand.

yea it just depends on what level we think the guy is on. Some guys view big bets as big hands, other guys view big bets as "i want you to fold". One thing I try to do in a HU match is set the dynamic one way or another and then play off it later. So we would want to overbet for thin value and then allow that to help us to overbet bluff later, or show lots of thin value small bets and then be able to thin value bluff later...etc.

One thing is almost universally true though, and that is when there's no dynamic for overbetting, the small bet sizes will rarely make people fold...so in other words, spots come up where if we think we want to bluff, it's still better to overbet because we have to give them a chance at folding their marginal hands, whereas if we try to make a more balanced bet size it's just going to get called every time.

hope that helps
WoT

In the A8 hands where you say the plan is to check call the turn. Say he does bet and you can check call. What do you think his action will be on the river and how will you react to it ? In other words, what is your river line ?

Awesome series btw, love the analysis looking forward to the rest.

I'd go ahead and c/c both streets...because i think he can float and bluff this way and because even if he has a better hand this time, it will protect my future donk bet and turn checks.

Thanks for watching.

WoT

digeng, good post. I agree with most of what you wrote. Some other things you can consider though:

1) how many better hands he bluffs the turn with

2) how we want to balance our turn checkraising range

3) how he views our turn c/c'ing range in the future.

it could definitely be that #1 is slim to none, but it could be that it's high.

Overall I'm not convinced that either c/c, c/c is better but I definitely can see where you're coming from. I think being capable of doing both is probably good. There are lots of factors that are very hard to quantify that could sway the correct answer.

Another argument for c/c c/c is at least you get to showdown and see what he's capable of defending preflop and floating on the flop with and you get to see if he's going to fire the river a lot after I c/c the turn...so your suggestion does gain us more info in general about how he thinks... but I would puke my guts out if he had like K7 and bet the turn with the intention of trying to get me off Ax on the river and I called down.

That said, the extra info we gain by c/c'ing the turn and river might make it worth it, so you could be right.

WoT

Why are you outing fish? (eg. titantom) Couldn't you replace the villain's name with "villain"?

Why are you outing fish? (eg. titantom) Couldn't you replace the villain's name with "villain"?

we'll do this for future hand history episodes, but i've already recorded ep 4 and we didn't change any screen names.

In the A2s hand you didn't explain your river bet size. Did your reasoning include ensuring you could fold to a raise because it would be almost impossible for him to bluff? If so, wouldn't 2/3 the pot do the same trick. Also, you said it would cost $3k to call, when it would only cost you ~$2,400, giving you even better pot odds.

In the A2s hand you didn't explain your river bet size. Did your reasoning include ensuring you could fold to a raise because it would be almost impossible for him to bluff? If so, wouldn't 2/3 the pot do the same trick. Also, you said it would cost $3k to call, when it would only cost you ~$2,400, giving you even better pot odds.

yea basically i felt like it was the most i was going to get from worse hands and also allows me to fold if shoved on.

Time Link to 00:51:22

Not seen his hand here, but I really hate his raise on this river if its a bluff. (would really like a thin value raise with AT+ here)

Just because he is repping nothing. Most drawss/air would bet the turn so he really doesnt have much in terms of backdoor hands, except maybe a weak Kxs. Becfause of that its fairly obvious he eitehr has a poorly played air hand or a hand like 9x which decided to turn his hand into bluff.

The only bet size I really like from him is a shove from him. We never really have a flush beacuse we would bet a FD on turn, so the best hand we have is a set/2pair which may just c/r the flop or double barrel donk,. Not only that he can have a few Kxs and its really hard to make a big calldown on the river with a set or 2 pair.

Thoughts WoT?


Lol just noticed you 3bet! Thats pretty sick if you think he wont 4bet bluff or wont calldown with 2pair (which IMO he should call given you really shouldnt have any flushes in your range just because you would DB more flush draws than check them on the turn.)

Time Link to 00:57:40

What do we think about x/c on the river here instead of b/f? This allows him to possibly bet missed draws that would have just folded to our bet. Do you think he would check back top pair here? We obviously like betting if he is going to call w/ AQ or whatever, but he might bet that on the river. And if he bets something like 3400 like you did, aren't we paying the same price but a) getting missed draws to bet and b) getting to see his hand for future info.

I guess it all comes down to whether or not we think he would bet top pair only here if checked to because if he wouldn't bet it, then we HAVE to bet.

Thoughts?

In the A2s hand you didn't explain your river bet size. Did your reasoning include ensuring you could fold to a raise because it would be almost impossible for him to bluff? If so, wouldn't 2/3 the pot do the same trick. Also, you said it would cost $3k to call, when it would only cost you ~$2,400, giving you even better pot odds.

Where are you getting $2,400? Wilt has $3118.75 left.

Time Link to 00:22:43

My standard is to check back the flop here as well, but I also find myself in the awkward predicament of having to call 2 full PSB's (which is wrong every time) when villain is slowplaying because now I have shown weakness and I question whether he might be bluffing. However, if we bet the flop and villain c/r'es, we're obviously beat, and if he check/calls and the turn is check/check and he bets the river, we are also clearly beat IMO on this board texture. So it seems betting the flop makes this hand easier to play given what he has, and I agree that it is easier in general vs. his whole range.

Time Link to 00:41:59

Just to point out that both of you noted that he would be continuing with 6 8 and 8 10 here but neglected to mention J 10 which is also a double bellybuster and needs to be considered accordingly.

Lol just noticed you 3bet! Thats pretty sick if you think he wont 4bet bluff or wont calldown with 2pair (which IMO he should call given you really shouldnt have any flushes in your range just because you would DB more flush draws than check them on the turn.)

Yeah I would like to see some more thoughts on this. Your river 3bet just doesn't seem believable to me?

I mean, he'd have to assume you have exactly what - KXss or AXss that for some reason didn't bet the turn this deep? Really?

If he raises a hand for value, I think he needs to call the 3bet...

Lol just noticed you 3bet! Thats pretty sick if you think he wont 4bet bluff or wont calldown with 2pair (which IMO he should call given you really shouldnt have any flushes in your range just because you would DB more flush draws than check them on the turn.)

Yeah I would like to see some more thoughts on this. Your river 3bet just doesn't seem believable to me?

I mean, he'd have to assume you have exactly what - KXss or AXss that for some reason didn't bet the turn this deep? Really?

If he raises a hand for value, I think he needs to call the 3bet...

Why would Kxss or Axss bet the turn? Just because it's pair + draw? Nah man, think about what sort of range he peels the flop with and think about what it looks like I have.

When he calls the flop and checks behind the turn, does it look like he's folding to my river lead? def not right? I don't rep much on the flop, he checks the turn indicating showdown value, and now I bet the river... it does not look like he's folding. If it doesn't look like he's folding, my river bet should be for value, depending on how thinly he thinks I can value bet, it becomes easy for him to raise me off thin value.

You heard the part where I was donk betting this hand to induce action because I cannot rep much, right? What makes you think that I would always bet the turn with a flush draw if that's the case? The same reason I checked the A8 on the turn would be the same reason I would also check a flush draw on the turn a lot, either to c/c or c/r and pick off floats depending on the exact turn card and the exact 2 spades I have.

More importantly though, it's much more likely that I have a flush than he does, and it's a tough spot with 2pair and he can turn some showdownable hands into bluff. My 3bet size does not look like air at all, especially given the raise size.

hope that helps!

WoT

Ok that makes some sense. Are you worried villain might think the way I (or NoWayFolding) did?

What's the worst flush you'd 3bet river with?

(Just remembered I hadn't responded to this)

You heard the part where I was donk betting this hand to induce action because I cannot rep much, right? What makes you think that I would always bet the turn with a flush draw if that's the case? The same reason I checked the A8 on the turn would be the same reason I would also check a flush draw on the turn a lot, either to c/c or c/r and pick off floats depending on the exact turn card and the exact 2 spades I have.

More importantly though, it's much more likely that I have a flush than he does, and it's a tough spot with 2pair and he can turn some showdownable hands into bluff. My 3bet size does not look like air at all, especially given the raise size.

hope that helps!

WoT

Didnt think about this, your comments here are almost as usefull as the video itself
(also liked the other ones, especially the first one about c/c c/c vs crai)

Nice vid overall also.