Poker Video: No Limit Hold'Em by 2fouroffsuit (Micro/Small Stakes)

Time Link to 00:30:00

I meant to say TOP of your folding range! The best hands that we aren't going to be calling with!

Time Link to 00:19:03

Hey, nice to hear your poker story & it will be interessting to follow you.

Q2s, Isnt this TurnPotBet better if you dont have one of the FD´s yourself? My point is your hand is close to nuts when u have Toppair + one of the FDs.

Can you explain why pre UIGEA reform were the games easier?

Time Link to 00:12:54

hi 2fouroffsuit, just wondering about the check back with the 10 high a couple hands before and the btm pair check back on the flop with 4-3...as standard i'd be betting hands that probs wont be good at showdown and btm pair just because it gets hard to bluff catch on the turn if villain leads..i guess my checking back range without reads would be 2nd pair type hands with mid kickers...what do you think of this as a default?
and were you taking the lines you took due to both villains being short stacked??

just thought id ask as it was kinda different to how i usually aproach things

thanx

Steve

Time Link to 00:29:53

with the 10-10 when you 4bet and villain calls, the flop comes down Q-Q-X you cbet smallish and villain folds, you said " if we get jammed on its going to depend somewhat on his timing ect"
could you explain what u'd be looking for with regard to villains timing and how it would make you lean towards calling or possibly folding, as its something that given the same spot i have'nt thought a ton about in the past.

thanx

Big Ballinnnnnn congrats on your first solo ep!

just finsihed watching the vid enjoyed it ...good stuff!!

Time Link to 00:27:29

Don't get why you raise 97o oop. I mean i get that he's folding most of the time and folding to c-bet but seems marginal to me. 98s seems ok but 97o seems to play too poorly + the 3$ sizing that will make him play his hand correctly

Hey, nice to hear your poker story & it will be interessting to follow you.

Q2s, Isnt this TurnPotBet better if you dont have one of the FD´s yourself? My point is your hand is close to nuts when u have Toppair + one of the FDs.

Thank you!

I think that what you are asking is, since we have more equity in the hand why are we betting as large as he will be more likely to fold to a larger bet? Is that about right? There's not a lot of difference between Q2s and Q2o vs his range except that occasionally he can make 2 pair or a flush when we make our flush.

In this particular instance it's a bit of an awkward stack size as he has 1.5x pot left behind, so the question is how can we make the most vs his entire range? So what I was saying in the video was that he's shown us that he's playing his draws passively, so if we can get a big bet out of him now before the draws miss that'll make us more than betting small and small. The second option would be better if more of his range consists of one pair hands.

Can you explain why pre UIGEA reform were the games easier?

Pre-UIGEA, it was very easy for anyone to throw some money onto a pokersite via credit card. Sites like Oooooooooooooh Party Poka! were advertising everywhere. You didn't need to be "good" to make a lot of money, you just had to be better than the fish. As a result, very few people had incentive to get really really good. You didn't need advanced concepts to beat very poor players. Cardrunners existed, but was small, and the training site industry was very young. There just wasn't as much known about the game. Programs like pokerstove didn't exist/weren't widely used. Poker tracker 2 was around, but it was far from as robust of a tool as PT3 or HEM is. HUDs existed but were very primitive and not nearly as prevalent as they are in today's games.

After the UIGEA was passed, and headlines of "online poker made illegal" and the new hoops that people had to jump through to get money online, Party and others leaving the US market, made the pool of recreational players significantly dry up. After that, people *needed* to get better in order to survive, strategies like light 3betting became very common and eventually the game progressed to where it is today where people have fully thought about 3bet/4bet/5bet+ strategies and dynamics, and the training site industry began to grow as a result.

hi 2fouroffsuit, just wondering about the check back with the 10 high a couple hands before and the btm pair check back on the flop with 4-3...as standard i'd be betting hands that probs wont be good at showdown and btm pair just because it gets hard to bluff catch on the turn if villain leads..i guess my checking back range without reads would be 2nd pair type hands with mid kickers...what do you think of this as a default?
and were you taking the lines you took due to both villains being short stacked??

just thought id ask as it was kinda different to how i usually aproach things

thanx

Steve

This was the very first hand and I was kind of talking through what was going on and another guy sat down, and I checked because I wasn't paying as much attention. I think that as a standard I would be betting this as well. Re: hands to check back, I think that 2nd pair witha decent kicker you can probably get pretty good value from still, depending on the board texture. In HU, you opponents will often be calling cbets with a fairly wide range, any pair, A-high, K-high sometimes, so something like a decent 2nd pair is usually a pretty easy value bet. Obviously this depends on what your opponent is doing vs your cbets, but something like ace high or bottom pair can be ok to check back if you are comfortable bluff catching with them sometimes.

The shortness of my opponents and the fact that it is the beginning of the match lends me to not cbetting as much until i find out if they are going to be very aggressive hit and runners or not.

with the 10-10 when you 4bet and villain calls, the flop comes down Q-Q-X you cbet smallish and villain folds, you said " if we get jammed on its going to depend somewhat on his timing ect"
could you explain what u'd be looking for with regard to villains timing and how it would make you lean towards calling or possibly folding, as its something that given the same spot i have'nt thought a ton about in the past.

thanx

Kind of difficult to express in text but I'll try, all of which are kind of my general opinions vs unknowns in a situation like this.

-Personally, I think that a snap decision in a spot like that is unlikely to be a Qx hand, as I think that most people would consider slowplaying for at least a second.
-A very quick but not instant c/r - "in tempo" if you will, would be the most likely timing if he decided to raise a Qx hand on the flop imo.
-Something between "in tempo" and a tank would probably begin to lean more away from him having Qx the longer he thinks.
-Tank probably a hand he was very unsure about and eventually decided to jam instead of play a difficult turn. I'd probably be most likely to call in this situation.

Just trying to figure out what his motivation is for the amount of time that he took. Timing tells can be iffy overall though, with latency, multitabling, and other distractions...

Don't get why you raise 97o oop. I mean i get that he's folding most of the time and folding to c-bet but seems marginal to me. 98s seems ok but 97o seems to play too poorly + the 3$ sizing that will make him play his hand correctly

I agree that it is thin, but since he is choosing to incorporate limping into his strategy he is likely raising the top part of hand that he is willing to play, limping the bottom part of them, and folding hands that he deems not worth playing. So vs his limping range, we will likely get a lot of folds and he is unlikely to ever have anything very good as he would be opening that himself at least most of the time. Since it is on the more marginal side I do opt for a larger size, I'm not sure what you mean that it will make him play correctly?

Checking and playing a small pot would be ok as well, but early on vs someone who is limping I really want to see how they will react vs a raise, what kind of range he will be limping, etc... If someone is limping a lot through the match and you just play passively against it, you will end up leaving a lot of money on the table that you could've had vs aggressively attacking their limps, esp at the lowest levels of hu where sites rake after the flop.

If you feel uncomfortable raising some more marginal hands when they limp or vs someone that limp calls a lot, I like to raise hands that can flop at least a good 2nd pair that I will be comfortable value betting (thanks WoT!). That might work as a good guideline for you.

Big Ballinnnnnn congrats on your first solo ep!

Just finsihed watching the vid enjoyed it ...good stuff!!

Thanks!

Good vid, thumbs up!

I enjoyed this, I'm impressed with your ability to keep things simple, looking forward to more vids from you.

gj man well done and love it

Pre-UIGEA, it was very easy for anyone to throw some money onto a pokersite via credit card. Sites like Oooooooooooooh Party Poka! were advertising everywhere. You didn't need to be "good" to make a lot of money, you just had to be better than the fish. As a result, very few people had incentive to get really really good. You didn't need advanced concepts to beat very poor players. Cardrunners existed, but was small, and the training site industry was very young. There just wasn't as much known about the game. Programs like pokerstove didn't exist/weren't widely used. Poker tracker 2 was around, but it was far from as robust of a tool as PT3 or HEM is. HUDs existed but were very primitive and not nearly as prevalent as they are in today's games.

After the UIGEA was passed, and headlines of "online poker made illegal" and the new hoops that people had to jump through to get money online, Party and others leaving the US market, made the pool of recreational players significantly dry up. After that, people *needed* to get better in order to survive, strategies like light 3betting became very common and eventually the game progressed to where it is today where people have fully thought about 3bet/4bet/5bet+ strategies and dynamics, and the training site industry began to grow as a result.

Thanks for your response. So its both a combination of the game evolving and the changes in player pool.

For those outside of USA that can play on party poker etc (I live in Australia). Would these games/sites be "softer" than say american player based sites (assuming american players are the most well equiped/informed etc)?

Thanks for your response. So its both a combination of the game evolving and the changes in player pool.

For those outside of USA that can play on party poker etc (I live in Australia). Would these games/sites be "softer" than say american player based sites (assuming american players are the most well equiped/informed etc)?

From what I've heard second hand, sites that don't allow American players are "different" and somewhat softer, but they probably aren't the fishponds that Americans think they are. I've heard that sites like ipoker are very reg heavy with rakeback grinders. My best advice would be to try for yourself to see how the different sites play, there are also some threads on DC here discussing the relative softnesses of the euro sites vs previously American sites like FTP and Stars.

From what I've heard second hand, sites that don't allow American players are "different" and somewhat softer, but they probably aren't the fishponds that Americans think they are. I've heard that sites like ipoker are very reg heavy with rakeback grinders. My best advice would be to try for yourself to see how the different sites play, there are also some threads on DC here discussing the relative softnesses of the euro sites vs previously American sites like FTP and Stars.

Yes FT and PS are definitely softer now. Good for us non US residents i guess.

cheers for the feedback 2four

thought this was very decent.

Can see Wilt on Tilt in your head haha.

Maybe you can upload your HEM HUD Layout? Just going to start NL HU and really like it.

Maybe you can upload your HEM HUD Layout? Just going to start NL HU and really like it.

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=0OY5EE2J
Let me know if that link works for you.

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=0OY5EE2J
Let me know if that link works for you.

Great. Thanks!

Just loved the snap-sitout-hitnrun by that triguy dude, haha...funniest ever

Time Link to 00:24:30

I think the value bet on the river is too thin against this player who ,we have labeled as playing pretty straight forward,he's showed us few hands ago he'll flat with AA,also he hasn't been giving you any resistance on any other hands so why go for a thin value bet like this the 1 hand he shows resistance?

I think that you might be right. I don't think that I factored in the AA slow play as well as I should have when I was recording this live. On a board that dry, his range usually has a lot of Jx, 5x, and some other pp's. He was somewhat weak passive so I expected to get 3 streets from any 5x, 33, 44 hand and when the J pairs on the river that significantly cuts down on the number of combos of hands better than ours. However, if he's going to be slow playing some bigger pairs, then that likely makes this too thin.

You played 2 underpair hands in 4B pots. One was TT on QQx, the other JJ on KKx. This is a spot I normally check back and you think it's better to just bet flop straight away. My main concern is having him do something weird like ch/raise so I feel much more comfortable checking back and calling the turn or betting the turn for value.

Why do you not like checking back and going for thin value on turn/river?

You played 2 underpair hands in 4B pots. One was TT on QQx, the other JJ on KKx. This is a spot I normally check back and you think it's better to just bet flop straight away. My main concern is having him do something weird like ch/raise so I feel much more comfortable checking back and calling the turn or betting the turn for value.

Why do you not like checking back and going for thin value on turn/river?

I prefer betting on the flop (and I could've bet even smaller than I did) for a couple of reasons. The first of which is that people tend to play somewhat straightforwardly in 4bet pots on a board texture like these.

So if we check back, it's not really like we expect him to bluff very often (unless you have a read), and giving up free cards vs someone that's not likely to put in more money without improving to hand that beats us when the pot is this large kinda sucks.

We also get decent value right away from lower pocket pairs, it's unlikely that we don't have the best hand given that higher overpairs jam pre, as do AK and some AQ hands. The fact that the overcard is also paired just cuts down on the number of combos of hands that he can have that beat us.

I talk a little about what happens if we get c/r'd on these board textures as well in the video. I think that the immediate value we can get + not giving him a free card to improve vs us, is greater than the small chance that he c/r's (because of the board texture) + if he does something like snapjam or times down for forever, I think that we should still be calling as stated earlier in this thread.

If you have a read that he'll spew on the later streets and you don't mind giving him a free card in some spots, checking back could be fine also, but I wouldn't check back as a default just because i'm scared fo getting c/r'd/