Poker Video: MTT/SNG by Luceboy (Mid Stakes)

Endgame: Episode Two

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Endgame: Episode Two by Luceboy

Luceboy returns with a friend, as they discuss a recent tournament Luceboy played and ICM.

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Luceboy breaks down the business end of 6max SNGs in his debut miniseries.

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luceboy endgame hh review hand replayer ipod friendly sng 6max

Video Details

  • Game: mttsng
  • Stakes: Mid Stakes
  • 80 minutes long
  • Posted 11 months ago

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Comments for Endgame: Episode Two

Farmer108

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293 posts
Joined 07/2010

Time Link to 00:28:15

Do you like to employ Nash in BVB situations as standard, or is this an exception?

Posted about 1 year ago

eddywally75

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125 posts
Joined 12/2010

eddywally75

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125 posts
Joined 12/2010

Farmer108

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293 posts
Joined 07/2010

Really good video, your best so far imo. I would really like to see more of these discussion type videos from you as the content was of such a high quality. Would be interesting to watch you coaching somebody less knowledable than your friend (who I was really impressed by), say maybe a student of yours, and correcting their mistakes.

Posted about 1 year ago

Luceboy

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80 posts
Joined 11/2010

Do you like to employ Nash in BVB situations as standard, or is this an exception?



I use the nash tables when im up against tough oppoenents and dont think that i have much of an edge, especially if they understand that im likely to be pushing wide and will call me light. Otherwise ill either push wider against tight people or try and limp against passive opponents.

Posted about 1 year ago

Skitz0Frenik

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199 posts
Joined 03/2009

Time Link to 01:01:42

What do you think of a shove here over his limp considering the bubble and stack dynamic? I tend to like a shove here personally. Nice video!

Posted about 1 year ago

Luceboy

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80 posts
Joined 11/2010

What do you think of a shove here over his limp considering the bubble and stack dynamic? I tend to like a shove here personally. Nice video!



Im not a great fan of shoving when people limp, just because i *usually* think that i can use my skillzzz and play post-flop. Dont get me wrong i'll shove rag aces, small pairs etc but dont mind checking stuff behind that plays well. I guess it all comes down to what limping/calling range you put your opponent on. In my experience, people who limp when they have 6BB are the kind of people who will call a shove with a hand like QTo. In this case ive played a fair amount with the fishbowl in the SB and know that considering their HUD stats its not really worth pushing the T2s. They're not that aggressive post flop, and so i feel that i dont really need to do anything drastic. Usually a push might be a good idea if you think they'll fold often enough but in this extreme case i dont feel that i need to risk 1200.

Posted about 1 year ago

sharpie07

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87 posts
Joined 07/2008

Time Link to 00:36:21

Is limping really preferable to shoving here? If Jody is a loose passive then he most likely will not call your shove with the correct range of hands. Limping with a hand as bad as 75o just seems like giving chips to Jody as your hand does not have any SD value and he might call your flop stabs too light for it to even be profitable. SNGwiz shows that Jody needs to be calling slightly more than 30% for your shove to be BE. Now the real question is whether shoving is more +EV or limp/stabbing. I personally prefer shoving but I would like to hear why you would prefer limp/stabbing.

Posted about 1 year ago

tychoon

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364 posts
Joined 06/2010

Really good video, your best so far imo. I would really like to see more of these discussion type videos from you as the content was of such a high quality. Would be interesting to watch you coaching somebody less knowledable than your friend (who I was really impressed by), say maybe a student of yours, and correcting their mistakes.


Unfortunately I haven't had the opportunity to watch the video yet but two professionals discussing hands seems a lot more interesting than a professional discussing with an amateur.
Just wanted to get that in here asap =)

Posted about 1 year ago

Luceboy

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80 posts
Joined 11/2010

Is limping really preferable to shoving here? If Jody is a loose passive then he most likely will not call your shove with the correct range of hands. Limping with a hand as bad as 75o just seems like giving chips to Jody as your hand does not have any SD value and he might call your flop stabs too light for it to even be profitable. SNGwiz shows that Jody needs to be calling slightly more than 30% for your shove to be BE. Now the real question is whether shoving is more +EV or limp/stabbing. I personally prefer shoving but I would like to hear why you would prefer limp/stabbing.



Shoving is almost certainly +$EV although considering i feel i have a very large edge against two of the opponents at the table (who are both passive), i dont feel i need to shove this as pushing here is a marginal +$EV move when compared to limp/stabbing. Jody only needs to fold 1/3 times to a min bet on the flop (assuming she doesnt raise which is unlikely considering her PFR of 5) and so with her fold to flop bet percentage of ~60%, i expect to see an immediate profit without risking my tournament life. Although pushing may be profitable, maximising your profits is all about adapting to exploit your opponents. Jodys style is one that means that considering your hand and your relative skill edge over most of the table, limp/stabbing is my preferred option.

Although this strategy of limp/stabbing on a short stack is itself very expoitable, Jody isnt the kind of player who will realise this and adapt accordingly. In times like these, consider moving your skill edge up to 1.00 on SNG wiz. It often isnt neccessary to stack light into enormous passive fish.

Posted about 1 year ago

sharpie07

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87 posts
Joined 07/2008

Yeah I generally like limp/stabbing against weaker players as well but I think this is actually a very +EV shove because of how tight I expect Jody to be calling. It's true that you are risking your tournament life on the shove but lets say Jody is calling top 20% (this is a bit light imo), we are going to pick up the pot pre-flop 80% and the other 20% when he calls, we have at least 30% equity. We're going to win the pot 86% of the time with a shove and double up 6% of those times. Limp stabbing is definitely profitable but you are letting him see a flop for free and the times where you stab and fail, you wasted 150 and gain the same you would have by shoving. I think winning the 150 and improving our stack to 1000 or more 86% of the time by shoving is probably better than improving it to 1000 60% of the time and losing another 100 on a stab the other 40% of the time. Overall a 1000 chip stack has much more utility than a 700 chip stack should your limp stab fail.

Posted about 1 year ago

sharpie07

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87 posts
Joined 07/2008

Time Link to 00:47:33

This spot with the T3s is pretty close to a shove depending on the BTN's limp/calling range. At this point in the SNG, our skill edge comes from push/folding better than the other two players and I would take even the smallest of edges. I'm pretty sure you could play with sngwiz to make this an extremely bad push or a decently good push, but with that said I would probably still push because there is 375 out there which is almost half our stack. The other two have been fairly passive and we still maintain a lot of FE because of our stack relative to theirs. Also, our hand is SOOTED.

Posted about 1 year ago

sharpie07

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87 posts
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Time Link to 00:51:06

I don't mind the shove here but I would like to ask whether folding might be better than shoving given the table dynamic. There are a couple of things that are working in your favor. The two fish are overly passive meaning they are more likely to limp than raise your BB. The big stack knows you are committed and therefore will not be shoving ATC (although still a very wide range) and if Jody and SetTheHook folds, Sally is either going to limp or fold. If Sally limps, you can either jam over him preflop or if you think there is ABSOLUTELY no chance of him folding, then you can check and shove the flop if he checks to you or just call if he shoves getting just about 2:1.
I think the only real difference is that shoving preflop in this spot will get more folds from SetTheHook than if it folds to him OTB on the next hand where he can shove a wider range himself. The other two players are so passive that they are almost a non factor. If anything, it works in your favor.

Posted about 1 year ago

sharpie07

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87 posts
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Time Link to 00:53:24

Maybe this is a leak of mine, but I think these are great spots to pick up chips against habitual limpers with 5-6bbs. You and your friend said that this is definitely a fold but Sally is a habitual limper and if he is limping about 40%, he would have to limp/call more than half that range for this not to be profitable with T7s.

Posted about 1 year ago

sharpie07

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87 posts
Joined 07/2008

Time Link to 00:55:09

I think it would be an extremely good idea to use sngwiz on some of these spots in future videos but the K5o looks to me to be a close call and KTo is a snap call. If SetTheHook is a good reg, he should be shoving fairly wide given how weak the SB is and how much FE he has on the two of you. Sngwiz shows the BE point to be slightly more 50%. I personally would shove more than 50% OTB. You are too far from the money and too short on chips for ICM to be a huge factor. Just pokerstoving this spot shows that K5o has 43% equity against a 50% range and your pot odds shows you need 42%. The fact that sngwiz agrees with your pot odds should show you how little ICM matters.

With all that said, I think folding here is fine given how close it is. The two other fish are fairly passive which should offer us more +EV future spots. But if the BTN continues to push, I would be looking to call wider since a disparity in chips between us and another good player is detrimental to our chances of winning.

Posted about 1 year ago

sharpie07

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87 posts
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Time Link to 01:06:03

I can't see how a bet here is better than a check at all. IF Sally is willing to c/rai on the turn as a bluff then he is just as willing to bluff the river with anything that doesn't have a piece of this board. I rather check the turn and give all his air a chance to bluff the river than bet the turn and force most if not all his air to fold. Checking the turn might also induce a lighter call or bluff on the river when you minbet for value since that is the last street he has to worry about.

I almost never shove the river when a heart falls. It's true that when he c/c the turn and checks river, he rarely has a better hand than your two pair but at the same time there are very few hands that can call your shove on the river. He can still have a weakly played suckers end of the straight, slowplayed straight, weakly played set, and a backdoored flush. You can realistically get value from 88, 34 and 45 only. I'm amazed that he called you with AJ and given that information I like your play, but not so much if it wasn't known that he is a station at the time.

Posted about 1 year ago

sharpie07

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87 posts
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Time Link to 01:09:59

Given what you know about him being a passive player with a fairly high FvCB and high F_BB, wouldn't it be a better strategy to be aggressive and minraise close to ATC OTB and cbet close to 100%?

Posted about 1 year ago

sharpie07

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87 posts
Joined 07/2008

Forgive me for abusing the timeline comment ability and if I sound a little bit rude. I just like to jump straight to the point =P. There isn't much 6max sng content on DC and I just wanted to take this opportunity to start a dialogue with you. I play 6max turbos as my main game so I might be taking some thinner spots than desirable for regular speed 6max games. I am really enjoying this series and hopefully you can get back to as many of my comments as possible and we can create a good learning environment! Thank you for your time Luceboy.

Posted about 1 year ago

Luceboy

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80 posts
Joined 11/2010

Yeah I generally like limp/stabbing against weaker players as well but I think this is actually a very +EV shove because of how tight I expect Jody to be calling. It's true that you are risking your tournament life on the shove but lets say Jody is calling top 20% (this is a bit light imo), we are going to pick up the pot pre-flop 80% and the other 20% when he calls, we have at least 30% equity. We're going to win the pot 86% of the time with a shove and double up 6% of those times. Limp stabbing is definitely profitable but you are letting him see a flop for free and the times where you stab and fail, you wasted 150 and gain the same you would have by shoving. I think winning the 150 and improving our stack to 1000 or more 86% of the time by shoving is probably better than improving it to 1000 60% of the time and losing another 100 on a stab the other 40% of the time. Overall a 1000 chip stack has much more utility than a 700 chip stack should your limp stab fail.



I think this calls for a full hand equity analysis, I hope you can follow all this...

Right:

Im going to make a number of assumptions

1) Jody will call our shove with 17.1% of hands. This range is equal to 33+, A2s+, A7o+, KTs+ and KQo. This is what i estimate considering ive had some history with this player.

2) When we limp jody will raise us 5% of the time. This value is equal to Jodys HUD stats and the range includes TT+, AQs+ and AQo+. In this case we will fold and have a stack size of 835 chips.

3) If Jody doesnt raise our limp, we will min bet the flop 100% and Jody will fold 60% of the time (according to the HUD stats). In this case we will end up with 1035 chips.

4) The remaining 40% of the time, Jody calls our min bet stab, we check/fold and will never win the hand (a conservative assumption). In this case we will end up on 735 chips.

Now considering we know all the stack sizes, we can plug them into http://www.icmpoker.com/Calculator.aspx. This tells us our equity for each stack size. Now we can make the following calculation in order to find our equity of limp/stabbing.

5% of the time we end up on 835 chips. Here we end up with a 10.444% equity.

Of the other 95% of the time:

60% of the time we have 12.762% Equity
40% of the time we have 9.261% Equity

Therefore,

(0.05*10.444)+(0.95*0.6*12.762)+(0.95*0.4*9.261) =
0.5222+7.2742+3.5192= 11.3156

So assuming we never win when we min bet and get called,

EqL/S% = 11.3156

We know from SNG Wiz that:

EqP% = 11.74
EqF% = 11.03

So it would appear that pushing is indeed the best option. However,

It was wrong to assume that we would never win when called. The question is, how often do we need to win when we're called to make limp/stabbing favourable?

To work this out we just equate the equity value for pushing with our calculation and add in an extra equity sum on the LHS.

Of the 40% we're called, will will win a percentage which i'll call X. Estimating our equity when we win is hard, but lets assume that jody checks it down (what with her being so passive) so no more chips go into the pot. If we win we have a stack of 1135 and an equity of 13.899.

So recalculating,

(0.05*10.444)+(0.95*0.6*12.762)+(0.95*0.4*9.261*(1-X))+(0.95*0.4*13.899*X) = 11.74

7.7964+3.5192(1-X)+5.2816X=11.74

3.5192(1-X)+5.2816X=3.9436

3.5192 - 3.1592X + 5.2816X = 3.9436

2.1224X = 0.4244

So X = 0.2

Assuming that youre going to hit a pair 32% of the time on the flop, this value of 20% for your win rate when called is not unreasonable. Ok, granted youre going to probably hit middle or bottom pair, but if you assume that:

1) Jody wont bluff you off your hand very often, and you wont get value bet very often (because she's that passive)
2) Youre only going to bet then onwards for value...

Then this figure of 20% is even more reasonable as sometimes youll be increasing your equity further by value betting, and because youll rarely be losing more equity by calling value bets. It is Jodys very nature in being very passive that allows us to make these assumptions - and this passisvity is the reason why I feel I can exploit her post flop so much with a hand such as 75o. (N/B: This is only possible due to the HUD, which is why its so goddam useful).

In conclusion, given Jodys calling range, our hand (which plays fairly well post flop), all the reasons above and MOST IMPORTANTLY, her pre AND post flop passivity, i prefer limp/stabbing to pushing.

If youre still not convinced, think about it this way. When you have a big edge over someone dont you want to play them post flop as much as possible as this is where you probably have your biggest advantage? I mean yeah youve only got 9BB to play with but this is plenty for a couple of small bets. If theyre really passive then thats even better as you can just take a cheap stab and then value bet if neccessary.

You only need to push wide into aggressive opponents who will attack your limps, bluff you off and generally discourage you from playing out of position. Feeble poker creatures do not need the same treatment.

Safe

Posted about 1 year ago

Luceboy

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80 posts
Joined 11/2010

This spot with the T3s is pretty close to a shove depending on the BTN's limp/calling range. At this point in the SNG, our skill edge comes from push/folding better than the other two players and I would take even the smallest of edges. I'm pretty sure you could play with sngwiz to make this an extremely bad push or a decently good push, but with that said I would probably still push because there is 375 out there which is almost half our stack. The other two have been fairly passive and we still maintain a lot of FE because of our stack relative to theirs. Also, our hand is SOOTED.



My SNG wiz ranges are:

Jody calling 14.3% and Sally Opening with 44% and calling with 28.2% give a range of 37% however because of my edge id probably push something like 20% which is 33+, A5o+, A2s+, KJs+,QTs+ and JTs. Pushing over a limp, especially if its an unpredictable fishbowl limping and you only have 5.5BBs, requires some sort of a hand in my book, T3s just doesnt quite cut it.

Posted about 1 year ago

sharpie07

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87 posts
Joined 07/2008

My SNG wiz ranges are:

Jody calling 11% and Sally Opening with 44% and calling with 19.5% gives:

Push with 33+, A5o+, A2s+, KJs+,QTs+ and JTs. This is pretty much the range im going to push here.



I did this a second time and used your inputs. I got push with 99.1%.

Posted about 1 year ago

Luceboy

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80 posts
Joined 11/2010

I don't mind the shove here but I would like to ask whether folding might be better than shoving given the table dynamic. There are a couple of things that are working in your favor. The two fish are overly passive meaning they are more likely to limp than raise your BB. The big stack knows you are committed and therefore will not be shoving ATC (although still a very wide range) and if Jody and SetTheHook folds, Sally is either going to limp or fold. If Sally limps, you can either jam over him preflop or if you think there is ABSOLUTELY no chance of him folding, then you can check and shove the flop if he checks to you or just call if he shoves getting just about 2:1.
I think the only real difference is that shoving preflop in this spot will get more folds from SetTheHook than if it folds to him OTB on the next hand where he can shove a wider range himself. The other two players are so passive that they are almost a non factor. If anything, it works in your favor.



SetTheHookJJ is an all-round top notch pro. I know that he will attack my blind with a very very wide range and ill probably have to call all-in. I really do not like this predicament. Addionally, i really prefer having fold equity and will always prefer to push ATC UTG than take a random hand in the BB. Anytime you find yourself with a stack so small that you cant steal the blinds then youve blinded yourself out and youre basically out of the SNG (see Moshmann SNG Strategy for this one).

Posted about 1 year ago

Luceboy

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80 posts
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Given what you know about him being a passive player with a fairly high FvCB and high F_BB, wouldn't it be a better strategy to be aggressive and minraise close to ATC OTB and cbet close to 100%?



Yeah almost certainly. I was probably playing a lot of tables at the time.

Posted about 1 year ago

sharpie07

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87 posts
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Love the analysis, the numbers really help put things in perspective. I didn't assume that we would never win when called but I did not know how to analyze our equity postflop. I greatly appreciate your effort put into explaining this hand and I learned a thing or two.

I agree that 20% is not unreasonable, but that is just the BE point. This shows you how small the EV difference really is even though we are making a lot of assumptions about his game. If he deviates from what you think he would do even a small % of the time, it has a big negative impact on the EV of limp/stabbing.

I totally love the math though, thank you thank you!

Posted about 1 year ago

Luceboy

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80 posts
Joined 11/2010

I think it would be an extremely good idea to use sngwiz on some of these spots in future videos but the K5o looks to me to be a close call and KTo is a snap call. If SetTheHook is a good reg, he should be shoving fairly wide given how weak the SB is and how much FE he has on the two of you. Sngwiz shows the BE point to be slightly more 50%. I personally would shove more than 50% OTB. You are too far from the money and too short on chips for ICM to be a huge factor. Just pokerstoving this spot shows that K5o has 43% equity against a 50% range and your pot odds shows you need 42%. The fact that sngwiz agrees with your pot odds should show you how little ICM matters.

With all that said, I think folding here is fine given how close it is. The two other fish are fairly passive which should offer us more +EV future spots. But if the BTN continues to push, I would be looking to call wider since a disparity in chips between us and another good player is detrimental to our chances of winning.



The fish in the SB does enjoy calling all-ins, i cant say how tightly but i expect SetTheHookJJ to know this and to tighten up his range. If i was him i'd probably be pushing 50% but i think hes a bit tighter than me as he only plays reg speeds and because im mainly a stack happy turbo player. Its a marginal call at best. KTs is a snap but it would be towards the bottom of my range. Id call with 55+ mid aces and big kings.

Posted about 1 year ago

Luceboy

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I can't see how a bet here is better than a check at all. IF Sally is willing to c/rai on the turn as a bluff then he is just as willing to bluff the river with anything that doesn't have a piece of this board. I rather check the turn and give all his air a chance to bluff the river than bet the turn and force most if not all his air to fold. Checking the turn might also induce a lighter call or bluff on the river when you minbet for value since that is the last street he has to worry about.

I almost never shove the river when a heart falls. It's true that when he c/c the turn and checks river, he rarely has a better hand than your two pair but at the same time there are very few hands that can call your shove on the river. He can still have a weakly played suckers end of the straight, slowplayed straight, weakly played set, and a backdoored flush. You can realistically get value from 88, 34 and 45 only. I'm amazed that he called you with AJ and given that information I like your play, but not so much if it wasn't known that he is a station at the time.



Honestly the only reason i played it this way is because i know the player and have enough hands for accurate HUD stats. Against anyone else i would have bet more on the flop or shoved the turn.

Posted about 1 year ago

Luceboy

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80 posts
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Forgive me for abusing the timeline comment ability and if I sound a little bit rude. I just like to jump straight to the point =P. There isn't much 6max sng content on DC and I just wanted to take this opportunity to start a dialogue with you. I play 6max turbos as my main game so I might be taking some thinner spots than desirable for regular speed 6max games. I am really enjoying this series and hopefully you can get back to as many of my comments as possible and we can create a good learning environment! Thank you for your time Luceboy.



I appreciate your interest, it helps me to learn too Smile. Whats your username and what site do you play on?

Posted about 1 year ago

Luceboy

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I did this a second time and used your inputs. I got push with 99.1%.



I apologise i keep forgetting to change the game structure from Full Table to 6max, if my numbers are wrong in the future this is why Frown

I think i then edited the comment and changed the values

Posted about 1 year ago

Luceboy

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Love the analysis, the numbers really help put things in perspective. I didn't assume that we would never win when called but I did not know how to analyze our equity postflop. I greatly appreciate your effort put into explaining this hand and I learned a thing or two.

I agree that 20% is not unreasonable, but that is just the BE point. This shows you how small the EV difference really is even though we are making a lot of assumptions about his game. If he deviates from what you think he would do even a small % of the time, it has a big negative impact on the EV of limp/stabbing.

I totally love the math though, thank you thank you!



If he deviates im in trouble, but thats when youve got to just trust the HUD - it helps i have a decent sample size though.

If you want another one of these im afraid you may have to pay for coaching, the thing took me ages!

Posted about 1 year ago

Luceboy

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80 posts
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Maybe this is a leak of mine, but I think these are great spots to pick up chips against habitual limpers with 5-6bbs. You and your friend said that this is definitely a fold but Sally is a habitual limper and if he is limping about 40%, he would have to limp/call more than half that range for this not to be profitable with T7s.



Sounds like youre a born turbo player. T7s plays well postflop and so im not looking to pick up the pot right now. I prefer to use my skillzzz and eek out some value OOP. I agree that high blind limpers need to be exploited but in this case i prefer to limp, it is a reg speed after all. Im sure that calling here is more +$EV than shoving

Posted about 1 year ago

sharpie07

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87 posts
Joined 07/2008

I appreciate your interest, it helps me to learn too Smile. Whats your username and what site do you play on?



I play on UB. Username will have to be kept a secret =). Thank you very much for responding to all my comments, I appreciate it soooooo much. I realize that I asked a ton of questions that people would probably normally ask in coaching. I wanted to get the most out of the video and figured that this would be the best way, whether you answered the questions or not. I'm surprised you answered all of them.

I like the format of the video where you and your friend review your play together. I normally do a lot of HH reviews with a friend as well. Keep up the good work and I'll try to ask fewer questions on my next one! Thanks again =)

Posted about 1 year ago

Luceboy

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80 posts
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I play on UB. Username will have to be kept a secret =). Thank you very much for responding to all my comments, I appreciate it soooooo much. I realize that I asked a ton of questions that people would probably normally ask in coaching. I wanted to get the most out of the video and figured that this would be the best way, whether you answered the questions or not. I'm surprised you answered all of them.

I like the format of the video where you and your friend review your play together. I normally do a lot of HH reviews with a friend as well. Keep up the good work and I'll try to ask fewer questions on my next one! Thanks again =)



I'll bear that in mind for future videos. I actually made this video without showing my friend the HH so that his suggestions would be totally genuine. Feel free to ask as many questions as you want, i just wont be able to promise that i'll be able to respond to them all (and in as much detail) but ill try!

Ill be interested to hear what you think of my 3rd video (out today), let me know.

Posted about 1 year ago

Evjen

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17 posts
Joined 05/2010

Time Link to 00:31:45

I think fold in this situation, because a raise would make the SPR really awkard for a C-bet. Furthermore, a call is very likely here as you are raising into four opponents, two of them being fishbowls that is very likely to call.

Posted about 1 year ago

Evjen

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Joined 05/2010

Time Link to 01:12:47

If you assume that villain almost always have some kind of the flop here, why would you call? You mentions implied odds, but you don't actually have most implied odds, your SPR are only around 10, and you don't have anywhere near expressed odds to call, if you assume you likely are indeed behind.

Posted about 1 year ago

Luceboy

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Joined 11/2010

I think fold in this situation, because a raise would make the SPR really awkard for a C-bet. Furthermore, a call is very likely here as you are raising into four opponents, two of them being fishbowls that is very likely to call.



Even though im fairly short i still prefer the raise. Ive got A9 which is too good for me to fold, although at the same time isnt good enough for a stack from UTG for 12.5BB. As for my opponents, pokerpro is playing a million tables and will be playing a tight robot poker game, Jody Nines although a fishbowl, is actually fairly tight preflop (and passive postflop) and SetTheHook wont neccessarily see this as an opportunity to resteal considering my position UTG. All in all, i can happily fold if im reraised preflop.

The most likely scenario is that i'll be called by the BB in which case im going to have to play a pot without much room to manouevre (like you said) but then again i do stand to be well ahead of his range and have position on him so i still like that situation. This move wouldnt be so great if there was a larger chance of me being reraised preflop. I still have enough chips to make a small c-bet, although in reality i'd be checking behind unless i had hit the flop - the opponent isnt all that aggressive and my hand has a lot of showdown value.

I can understand the reasons why you would prefer to fold here, it does put you in a tight spot most of the time and gives you tough decisions. However i just feel that folding A9 in this situation is too tight and am comfortable playing it with a really small SPR. You always have to remember that everyone *might* fold in which case you will steal those juicy blinds. If you're playing a 3 dollar then i dont like this move so much but considering i know my opponents its definitely +EV.

Posted about 1 year ago

Luceboy

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80 posts
Joined 11/2010

If you assume that villain almost always have some kind of the flop here, why would you call? You mentions implied odds, but you don't actually have most implied odds, your SPR are only around 10, and you don't have anywhere near expressed odds to call, if you assume you likely are indeed behind.



Jody is probably not betting a 6 or a draw, meaning shes most likely betting either top or second pair. My express odds are only 3:1, when i need like 8.2:1 in order to call profitably to hit two pair or trips considering my plan is only to see the turn and fold if she bets again. However, I definitely have implied odds as she has 3800 behind and she will definitely stack off if she holds an ace. I wouldnt fold bottom pair here to anyone, not in position anyway. Theres also the chance that you have the best hand as Jody is a fishbowl and might surprise you some time.

Are you a cash game player? You keep talking about SPR which is something that i rarely ever use. 6max SNGs are far too fast paced and people are far too willing to stack off for 50BB with top pair for it to be of much use in my opinion. I dont doubt that its a useful tool, i think i have an intuitive sense but never actually translate that into numbers.

Posted about 1 year ago

Evjen

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17 posts
Joined 05/2010

Are you a cash game player? You keep talking about SPR which is something that i rarely ever use. 6max SNGs are far too fast paced and people are far too willing to stack off for 50BB with top pair for it to be of much use in my opinion. I dont doubt that its a useful tool, i think i have an intuitive sense but never actually translate that into numbers.



I am not a cash game player, I specialize in SNGs. I know that SPRs are more of a cash game concept than a SNG concept and I seldom calculates it at the tables. One exception are when I am considering set mining preflop, as Md261 advocates to have an SPR of at least 20 in those scenarios (or multiple limpers).

That being said, I think it's a quite useful term to use when discussing a) implied odds and b) such situations like in the A9 utg raise hand, as you woldn't like the SPR to be somewhere in between 1,1 and 3 if considering a C-bet.

Posted about 1 year ago

Luceboy

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80 posts
Joined 11/2010

I am not a cash game player, I specialize in SNGs. I know that SPRs are more of a cash game concept than a SNG concept and I seldom calculates it at the tables. One exception are when I am considering set mining preflop, as Md261 advocates to have an SPR of at least 20 in those scenarios (or multiple limpers).

That being said, I think it's a quite useful term to use when discussing a) implied odds and b) such situations like in the A9 utg raise hand, as you woldn't like the SPR to be somewhere in between 1,1 and 3 if considering a C-bet.



I'll confess i actually had to look up what SPR meant as i'd never heard of it before i read it in your post. Setmining is probably its most useful application as many SNG players seem to think that its ok to setmine at 25-50 and even 50-100, which as you pointed out is a bad idea as you rarely get enough implied. Maybe ill give it a mention in my next video.

As for the A9, i realise that considering the circumstances i dont want to be c-betting with that stack, A9 is one of those trouble hands that i consider almost too good to fold first in at 50-100, but not good enough to stack for 12.5BB. Other hands would include KJ and 66. Usually i'd fold them but occasionally when the table is right you can drop in a min raise if your oppoenents are tight and generally passive. I guess it depends on how comfortable you are playing post-flop with probably just A high with a short stack. Most people arent so i really dont mind a fold.

Posted about 1 year ago

Evjen

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17 posts
Joined 05/2010

As for the A9, i realise that considering the circumstances i dont want to be c-betting with that stack, A9 is one of those trouble hands that i consider almost too good to fold first in at 50-100, but not good enough to stack for 12.5BB. Other hands would include KJ and 66. Usually i'd fold them but occasionally when the table is right you can drop in a min raise if your oppoenents are tight and generally passive. I guess it depends on how comfortable you are playing post-flop with probably just A high with a short stack. Most people arent so i really dont mind a fold.



Would you consider making it 400, folding to a 3-bet, but stacking the flop no matter what? True, you would get huge odds of 3-betted, but then again almost guaranteed be dominated bad. Furthermore, a 3-bet is unlikely, as you are projecting massive strength, and because you are mostly up against passive opponents (and the good players are tight enough and would probably reason they don't have any fold equity if they shove over, incorrectly so in this particular instance).

Posted about 1 year ago

Luceboy

Avatar for Luceboy

80 posts
Joined 11/2010

Would anyone who posted on this video be interested in sending me a Tournament HH that i could use in my next series?

I'm looking for a 6max SNG tournament HH, preferably 25$+ played on PokerStars (lol). As I work with a HUD i'd prefer it if you were able to supply me with a few stats on your opponents such as VPIP, PRF, AF and Attempt to Steal. You'll also have to have an ITM finish.

Any takers? Let me know soon, ive only got 2 weeks til im back Smile

Posted about 1 year ago



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