themightyjim2k
415 posts
Joined 04/2007
Time Link to 00:18:51
ok this makes no sense. first off you're 4betting so small given stack sizes that he can pretty much do whatever he wants with any part of his range and he isn't making a huge mistakes. i feel like you have to be 4betting bigger with both bluffs and value hands here since you want to reduce stack depth when you have the top of your range, and you want increased fold equity (float prevention) with bluffs.
secondly you expect him to 5bet KK-JJ and then fold to a 6bet bluff? and you think this guy is a good regular? i would be shocked if villain 5bet KK or QQ and then folded to a shove, and more importantly I just think most good regs are going to be flatting QQ-TT in his spot and playing a pot with position instead of 5betting them. so if you think 6bet bluffing here is best it has to be because you think he's going to be 5bet bluffing a decent portion of the time, not turning good hands into bluffs as a 5bet.
either way I don't love your logic behind this hand. seems to me like a 4bet is fine, but make it a believable size considering stack depth. and secondly give us a reason why you think villain is 5bet bluffing a decent amount of time before spewing 300bb in this spot. i dont think the reasoning that he's going to 5bet JJ-KK and you can get him to fold to a 6bet really makes any sense.
edit: considering how the hand played out I'd be shocked if villain folded a better hand. if he did he's not good. fwiw in his position i'm flatting your 4bet with 100% of my 3bet range which includes tons of hands that are worse and can't continue on that flop.
Posted about 2 years ago
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themightyjim2k
415 posts
Joined 04/2007
Time Link to 00:23:48
once you get to the river with 44 here you need to always turn your hand into a bluff. checking and hoping to be best seems like a huge leak. he's very unlikely to call with most of his made hands that are beating you, and he occasionally might bluff with stuff you are beating if you check to him.
Posted about 2 years ago
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themightyjim2k
415 posts
Joined 04/2007
Time Link to 00:29:44
this doesnt make any sense either. so villain doesn't cbet much, but he did here (meaning he likely has something to continue with) and we're deep with the nuts on a drawy board and we don't c/r? we got our dream scenario here and we're going to allow him to check back the turn and take free cards, or complete his draws for free on the turn and river.
not c/r'ing this flop seems like a crime.
edit: guess your read is better than mine, but with information given i still think not c/r'ing is really bad on the flop. I would need a read that villain only bluffs total air and attempts to SD for cheap with any Khigh or pair to think that c/c'ing was better in that spot.
Posted about 2 years ago
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slowlane123
378 posts
Joined 07/2010
ok this makes no sense. first off you're 4betting so small given stack sizes that he can pretty much do whatever he wants with any part of his range and he isn't making a huge mistakes. i feel like you have to be 4betting bigger with both bluffs and value hands here since you want to reduce stack depth when you have the top of your range, and you want increased fold equity (float prevention) with bluffs.
secondly you expect him to 5bet KK-JJ and then fold to a 6bet bluff? and you think this guy is a good regular? i would be shocked if villain 5bet KK or QQ and then folded to a shove, and more importantly I just think most good regs are going to be flatting QQ-TT in his spot and playing a pot with position instead of 5betting them. so if you think 6bet bluffing here is best it has to be because you think he's going to be 5bet bluffing a decent portion of the time, not turning good hands into bluffs as a 5bet.
either way I don't love your logic behind this hand. seems to me like a 4bet is fine, but make it a believable size considering stack depth. and secondly give us a reason why you think villain is 5bet bluffing a decent amount of time before spewing 300bb in this spot. i dont think the reasoning that he's going to 5bet JJ-KK and you can get him to fold to a 6bet really makes any sense.
edit: considering how the hand played out I'd be shocked if villain folded a better hand. if he did he's not good. fwiw in his position i'm flatting your 4bet with 100% of my 3bet range which includes tons of hands that are worse and can't continue on that flop.
I agree I should generally be 4betting much bigger here, somewhere around $130 (whatever ~4 x is) seems about right.
Playing 300bb deep isn't my standard and I definitely make some mistakes when doing across several tables (who doesn't?). I 4b smaller here to keep my 6b bluffs smaller or my barrels smaller. I don't think my sizing will play a huge factor in getting this player to lay down a big PP like JJ/QQ/KK, but the number of streets I bet (or fact that I 6b) will. My 4b size is unbalanced, but admittedly I sometimes 4b to this size not realising how deep I am with my opponent, so it isn't like I can't ever have aces here.
Posted about 2 years ago
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slowlane123
378 posts
Joined 07/2010
once you get to the river with 44 here you need to always turn your hand into a bluff. checking and hoping to be best seems like a huge leak. he's very unlikely to call with most of his made hands that are beating you, and he occasionally might bluff with stuff you are beating if you check to him.
As I said I axed this hand and just gave up on it. Betting river would be fine.
Posted about 2 years ago
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slowlane123
378 posts
Joined 07/2010
this doesnt make any sense either. so villain doesn't cbet much, but he did here (meaning he likely has something to continue with) and we're deep with the nuts on a drawy board and we don't c/r? we got our dream scenario here and we're going to allow him to check back the turn and take free cards, or complete his draws for free on the turn and river.
not c/r'ing this flop seems like a crime.
edit: guess your read is better than mine, but with information given i still think not c/r'ing is really bad on the flop. I would need a read that villain only bluffs total air and attempts to SD for cheap with any Khigh or pair to think that c/c'ing was better in that spot.
I agree with what you're saying.
Sometimes I go against the numbers and with my gut feeling in a hand. x/c this board when having it this crushed will rarely be bad, especially when I know this opponent is very competent and will put me on a fairly weak range when I x/c and may choose to dbarrel.
I definitely should have explained this one a little better, but yes against someone who cbets rarely and turn never, we should x/r here as a standard.
Thanks for your comments, glad you're enjoying the series.
Posted about 2 years ago
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themightyjim2k
415 posts
Joined 04/2007
fwiw I really am enjoying the series. and thanks for taking the time to respond to me. I know I come off as an arrogant know it all in some of my posts, and clearly I don't because I breakeven and lose just as much as the next reg.
keep up the good work, and thanks again for the vids and responses.
Posted about 2 years ago
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