Poker Video: Limit Hold'Em by DeathDonkey (High Stakes)

Five's A Crowd S2: Episode Five

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Five's A Crowd S2: Episode Five by DeathDonkey, mike l.

DeathDonkey and Mike L. continue their debate about the proper way to play limit hold'em. This video is a continuation of a session review from last week but we get a new twist when an unknown shows up at the table and shifts the dynamics.

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A continuation of DeathDonkey and mike L.’s popular 6max LHE series. Attack high stakes LHE, featuring deep discussion of hand ranges, preflop balancing, playing the river, image considerations and short handed play.

Tags

deathdonkey mike l. ipod friendly shorthanded five's a crowd s2 short-handed 3-handed $5/10 lhe

Video Details

  • Game: lhe
  • Stakes: High Stakes
  • 59 minutes long
  • Posted almost 3 years ago

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Comments for Five's A Crowd S2: Episode Five

sweetjazz3

Avatar for sweetjazz3

1854 posts
Joined 02/2007

Cheeziest video yet!

A5o in SB 2:00 in -- I hate this spot. I feel like your reverse implied odds are such that just folding the flop can't be that bad. I kind of think the optimal strategy is to balance in a way that you fold enough to induce more three barrels, so that when you do call down some of the time, you are more likely to be getting your money in good.

J6o in BB 13:00 in -- Tricky spot, but I think the line of check/raise flop and probably bet/fold turn is probably pretty good. I think there is a fourth thing to add to DD's list of things to think about (the three were 1. Is he vbetting worse?, 2. Do I have enough outs to call?, 3. Can I call down unimproved?) is how likely is he to make a free showdown raise. It could be correct to call the turn raise and then fold the river unimproved if you think (1) the combination of the chance he is FSR'ing plus the chance you will improve to beat a hand you are currently losing to merits calling the turn AND (2) the chances his turn raise is a semibluff that he will follow through with on the river do not merit calling the river unimproved.

DD 17:40 in -- "I shouldn't call him a fish..." I lost count of how many times he referred to him as the fish after that point. Smile

QTo in SB 19:00 in -- I disagree with DD that CCing the SB is that bad. The problem with 3betting is that you are bloating a pot against a player whose biggest mistake is most likely going way too far with his hands. Unfortunately, that's not much of a mistake when your opponent isolates you OOP with Q high. Also, I think the danger of letting a good BB in is mitigated by the fact that you have good relative position against the weaker player, allowing you to check/raise the flop when you connect and give the BB bad odds with his weaker holdings.

95o in BB 22:00 in -- Agree with preflop fold, though calling isn't terrible. Agree strongly the turn check/raise is spew. I'm curious what Nfinity had here, since his river raise on the K is pretty surprising given what hand range we are putting him on. The hand reading suggests he has KK or K6s.

Q9s in SB/BB 25:00 in -- Interesting hand. Agree that SB check/overcall on the river is a mistake (one that I make a lot too). BB's bet is interesting; could argue for check/call if fish bets, check/fold if fish bets and SB calls, to induce bluffs from the random single spades in button's range.

22 in BB 31:00 in -- Well played. I don't think button's call down with T6s is terrible. There's not much worse he can get value from and he has to be concerned about 4x. There would be a lot more value in the raise if there was a bluff/rebluff dynamic on these kind of boards between the players. (Obviously, I'm not saying the fish necessarily was just calling down with the right thought process, but I know this would be a marginal spot if I were button, especially if I knew villain flatcalled his whole range preflop and could play overpairs this way.)

KJo in BB 34:00 in -- Well played. I don't think Tilty's river bet is that bad. He should expect call downs from AQ, QJ, JJ, and often a pocket pair below Ts (not that fnupple would necessarily call those down, but Tilty doesn't know that). Given how the hand has played out, he's only losing to AK and KJ. Actually, I think checking behind this river is somewhat poor.

KK OTB/A6o in SB 36:00 in -- Great discussion about this spot. Interesting that you think SB should fold if button raises the flop. Could be right, but I doubt many players ever do it.

A8o/KQo in SB 48:00 in -- Gross spots, but I agree the c/c c/f line with A8o isn't good versus this guy. If you check turn, it should be either to give up or to induce bluffs and see a show down. The KQo is again tough, but this time I think the river c/f is good because you are hoping to chop the pot and your odds aren't there.

Posted about 3 years ago

bigbluffben1

Avatar for bigbluffben1

591 posts
Joined 08/2008

I don't have anything to constructive about the content but I just want to say that I hope this series never ends.
Mike and DD are way too good
Keep it up guys and hopefully we'll see season 3/4/etc

Posted about 3 years ago

BusinessGypsy

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1760 posts
Joined 11/2008

DonkeyOnTilt

Avatar for DonkeyOnTilt

33 posts
Joined 04/2008

I don't have anything to constructive about the content but I just want to say that I hope this series never ends.
Mike and DD are way too good
Keep it up guys and hopefully we'll see season 3/4/etc




Please. This and last video are close to the best thing I've ever watched ever, poker or otherwise. More please. If I could count on videos like this I'd never cancel my subscription.

Posted about 3 years ago

DonkeyOnTilt

Avatar for DonkeyOnTilt

33 posts
Joined 04/2008

Just rewatched some parts.

mike l. you just utterly blew my mind on the A6o KK hand. Your analysis is so perfect. I think mike l. and DD should just make fives a crowd videos for all eternity. Seriously good stuff. Watching this has made me depressed because I just don't think I'll ever be this good.

Thanks for trying to help though.

Posted about 3 years ago

BusinessGypsy

Avatar for BusinessGypsy

1760 posts
Joined 11/2008

Watching this has made me depressed because I just don't think I'll ever be this good.



Careful... our intentions are very powerful. Saying this stuff will cause it to be true.

These kind of vids make me excited to play poker and know that someday I WILL be this good. Wink

Posted about 3 years ago

marching_on_together

Avatar for marching_on_together

4 posts
Joined 02/2007

Hi guys, I'm really enjoying this series, it's great to have two peoples perspectives as it sure makes for some interesting discussion. This series more than the last though i have found myself thinking both DD and mike come at this from very much a six maxers perspective rather than someone who primarily plays hu. These days I put myself in the HU camp as that's where I play 90% of my games (when they run Frown ) and I find that both mike and DD are tending to put opponents on a much tighter range than what i would. Also both you guys are much harsher in your criticism on some of the plays which we have seen (poor lela). For example, the KJ hand at 34 mins, DD criticises tiltys bet with two pair when the board pairs. I doubt this is so bad as the alternative of check calling or check folding are not exactly welcoming. Tilty has to assume his opponent will be calling with worse hands here and certainly all better hands will bet. While his opponent will not bluff much he could easily bet a worse hand for value (AQ, QJ or the tied Q10) so CF is not appealing too. On the basis of this hand alone betting certainly doesn't indicate that tilty is really bad at poker as DD says. In HU you will bet far worse hands than this on the river (and you would be correct to do so) as random opponents (which lela is to tilty) will call with a wider range than I think DD assumes.

Great series though i hope you do a series 3 (where the central sheep should get his revenge).

Posted about 3 years ago

sushiglutton

Avatar for sushiglutton

2752 posts
Joined 11/2007

I totally agree with the others.

One question: In some spot u seem to argue that the two payers involved should take lines that kind of contradict eachother. Like when u say nfinity should v-bet A8 and jbanana fold A5 on the river in the first hand. Or when u say that jbanana should raise KK and lela dax fold A6 on that AJx board (This is not strictly contradictory, but I guess raising KK means jbanana should raise QQ and KJ too making folding wrong). Are u thinking of how the default 5/10 plays in these spots? Or is it the way u suppose these actual players will play?

A thought on letting the fish in when u're in the SB: When u miss u XF and gain nothing extra. When u hit u try to XR BTN to shut SB out. (This is obviously an oversimplification)

Posted about 3 years ago

DeathDonkey

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5229 posts
Joined 11/2006

Hi sushi,

Well when we talk about what one player should do with his hand, we are trying to discuss it relative to the opponents he has at the time, and if we don't know anything about them then we try to think of our idea of the default player in that game. So yes its how we hope they will actually play in the spot they are in vs the opponent they have, though we hope we aren't results or information-oriented by knowing other holecards. That definitely makes it a little tougher and adds a potential hurdle for our analysis, but I think we do an ok job of not getting results oriented.

It can be completely correct for one guy to raise say KK and the other guy to fold his pair of aces, as they are dealing with each other's full ranges, and it just works out that the actual hands held in that scenario aren't the "typical" hand in the range, but fall probably far to one end of the spectrum.

Posted about 3 years ago

sushiglutton

Avatar for sushiglutton

2752 posts
Joined 11/2007

Thnx that makes sense. I'm no saying at all that ur analysis is wrong just wanted to know the thouhtprocess. And I think u make a great job of not beng results oriented.

It can be completely correct for one guy to raise say KK and the other guy to fold his pair of aces, as they are dealing with each other's full ranges, and it just works out that the actual hands held in that scenario aren't the "typical" hand in the range, but fall probably far to one end of the spectrum.



I agree. That's what I tried to say with my QQ, KJ comment. It's in there if u read carefully Wink!

Posted about 3 years ago

fnupple

Avatar for fnupple

1117 posts
Joined 11/2007

and I find that both mike and DD are tending to put opponents on a much tighter range than what i would. Also both you guys are much harsher in your criticism on some of the plays which we have seen (poor lela).


lol that's ok. i would MUCH prefer getting criticized too harshly (not saying that's what DD and Mike are doing) to them just singing my praises. First of all, I can take it. Second of all, them not being critical would render the whole series useless for everybody. Third of all, I want everyone to think I'm the biggest fish around so I can get more action Wink

FWIW I'm agreeing with the vast majority of their criticism (regarding my play and everyone else's).

For example, the KJ hand at 34 mins...


I like your thought process here. Unfortunately, it doesn't apply to the hand in question since villain has position on me.

Posted about 3 years ago

sweetjazz3

Avatar for sweetjazz3

1854 posts
Joined 02/2007

Time Link to 00:34:44

I'm testing the timeline comment feature, so I just wanted to link to the hand where QT bets the river on a KT2-Q-2 board after raising the turn. I still think I disagree that this is a bad bet. Given how the hand played to the river, you're now losing to AK, KJ and some random Kxs hands. You still beat AQ, QJ, JJ, AT that probably all call the river. It's close because the club flush draw is a small part of fnupple's range as well.

I guess I'm pretty indifferent to betting or checking back, but I wouldn't see someone who bets here as bad, just someone who is focused on getting value and may try to do so in marginal or possibly even very poor spots in the future. But this hand I think is a marginal spot, not a very poor one.

Posted about 3 years ago

marching_on_together

Avatar for marching_on_together

4 posts
Joined 02/2007




I like your thought process here. Unfortunately, it doesn't apply to the hand in question since villain has position on me.



argh my error I remembered disagreeing when viewing the hand the first time around (when i knew villian had position) then mistook the position when viewing this again. However it's clearly not a terrible bet.

Posted about 3 years ago



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