Poker Video: Limit Hold'Em by PygmyHero (Micro/Small Stakes)

~0:45
Attempt to make Jess say "about" in a Canadian accent (e.g., 'aboot').
Mission failed.

It'll come naturally, PH, just like saying zed instead of z . Love ya, Adri!

lmao on the above screenshot before I even finish dl'ing the vid!

Oh, but there are even better ones in the video! Start watching!

Just wait you guys - I'm pretty sure I have the BEST PowerPoint slide in episode 3...

U were borned to do this pygcoach!

On the J7 (~41) hand I think u should have talked some about polarized ranges. U kind of circle around it, but it's a really important concept. I understand that ur point is that they always have a 9. But perhaps explain why the fact that they are not raising AA can lead to a call. Perhaps AR allready knows this? Just a thought.

one way that helps me put ideas like the .1 BB edge into perspective is to relate it to winrate in terms of BB/100. so, in this case, value-betting the river when you going to win .1BB on average = 10 BB/100!! don't know if that helps.

about 20:00: we have KTo on btn and its 3 limpers to us. one of the big considerations on whether to raise or overcall is how often we can expect to win the pot unimproved. against this many players, and at these low stakes, where the average player's sin is calling too much, that may not be a likely enough expectation.

what i wanted to talk about was the turn decision. this is a very interesting card and its now 3 handed. on one hand, the green J puts a ton of draws on the board that we can expect to get value from. on the other hand, it also completes a lot of draws. 98, J9, J8 all got there. JT, QJ and KJ are all hands that these types of players limp w/ pre-flop too. so, i just wonder... what is our plan if we are check-raised. my guess is that we don't have to worry about a turn-check-raise semi-bluff in a multi-way pot from these guys. that would be an aggression level that is inconsistent with a player who open limps or overlimps. so, against passive players a value-bet >> a value-check! so, are we comfortable folding to a check-raise?

I watched it just hoping to see what the pictures were about but I still have no clue. Eurodonk with no idea about that american football of yours though so it might not be surprising.

Great vid again, keep up the good work! I'm blaming poker also for my drinking habit!

~0:45
Attempt to make Jess say "about" in a Canadian accent (e.g., 'aboot').
Mission failed.

lololol major fail!

U were borned to do this pygcoach!

On the J7 (~41) hand I think u should have talked some about polarized ranges. U kind of circle around it, but it's a really important concept. I understand that ur point is that they always have a 9. But perhaps explain why the fact that they are not raising AA can lead to a call. Perhaps AR allready knows this? Just a thought.

Thanks sushi!

You make a good point and I'll make sure I talk to Jess about it soon. I totally get where you're going with it, but I think the good ol' polarized range is probably unlikely for the limits she's playing. But it's definitely something she should be aware of as she moves up, so thanks for pointing that out.

about 20:00: we have KTo on btn and its 3 limpers to us. one of the big considerations on whether to raise or overcall is how often we can expect to win the pot unimproved. against this many players, and at these low stakes, where the average player's sin is calling too much, that may not be a likely enough expectation.

what i wanted to talk about was the turn decision. this is a very interesting card and its now 3 handed. on one hand, the green J puts a ton of draws on the board that we can expect to get value from. on the other hand, it also completes a lot of draws. 98, J9, J8 all got there. JT, QJ and KJ are all hands that these types of players limp w/ pre-flop too. so, i just wonder... what is our plan if we are check-raised. my guess is that we don't have to worry about a turn-check-raise semi-bluff in a multi-way pot from these guys. that would be an aggression level that is inconsistent with a player who open limps or overlimps. so, against passive players a value-bet >> a value-check! so, are we comfortable folding to a check-raise?

imnuts4u, I agree that the J isn't the best possible card for our holding, but I still think it's a value bet until one of the villains wants to tell me they have something. I definitely think we're not gettting c/r semi-bluffed here since it's 3-ways, but moreover because I just really doubt anyone does it at this limit, even HU.

So, I'd have to check the pot size, but I'd consider folding to a c/r. I doubt villains can c/r 'just' a J here, so I'd expect to be up against 2 pair+ when it happens.

I watched it just hoping to see what the pictures were about but I still have no clue. Eurodonk with no idea about that american football of yours though so it might not be surprising.

No matter - I thought the origami slide was the best one this week.

No matter - I thought the origami slide was the best one this week.

my best contribution imo ^.^ I can't wait till Amigo can be in slides!

lmao on the above screenshot before I even finish dl'ing the vid!

perfect freezeframe screenshot

It'll come naturally, PH, just like saying zed instead of z . Love ya, Adri!

x, y, and zed... how else would u say it?

Or perhaps AR already knows this? Just a thought.

AR knows nothing >.>

Pygmy, I like your vids a lot, and basically RLMG was one of my first serious introductions to poker. The torch is also a great job by you and Adrienne!

But I think in this one (I've only watched the beginning yet) you got something wrong when you argue that we can disregard the pot size when deciding whether a river bet is +EV.

If I understood it correctly, it says in the vid (around 3:30) that we have to be good 50% of the time to break even in a bet-call situation on the river, regardless of pot size. I don't understand this. Let's say the pot is 3 BB before the river action. In a bet-call situation (as well as in a check-call situation) I have to invest 1 BB to win 4. This means I am contributing 20% of the final pot (of 5 BB) with my river bet or call. Therefore, the break-even-point is when I win the pot 20% of the time (as 0,2*5=1, which is the 1 BB I risk to lose; or in terms of EV: (0,2*4)-(0,8*1)=0).

Disregarding the pot size would mean that I always have to win 50% of the time if I risk a bet on the river, regardless of whether the pot is 3 BB or 30 BB, which cannot be the case.

Or is it me who's getting something wrong here?

Kudos on the use (and I’m assuming continued use) of Stove. Help us Stove newbies out.

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A10 at 26:00. Board is 46J3
We open-raised in the HJ after UTG open-limped. SB CCs (this is Ax 80+% of the time verse these guys). We c-bet the flop and get 2 callers. Checks to Hero in position on the Turn…

Because of the board and $.5/1 stake, I would argue that this Turn is most likely a check for a few reasons. If we take the pot down with a Turn bet here, we had the best hand. I think this is pretty clear against these guys. If we are called, especially in two spots, I think it is very likely one of them has a Jack (more than 50% likely by the river?, looking forward to our possible v-bet on the river if we spike a T *wink* to awesome point in Xcel). The flop was rainbow and now the Turn brings the 4th suit, making it very unlikely that our opponents hold draws that can call our Turn bet. I would argue that this is the case in many low-low-high rainbow Flops with another low card Turn.
I don't like betting the Turn because we cannot v-bet a T profitably on the river against what I perceive to be their range. We also need to think about what worse hands can call on this board by the river. I could totally be wrong here, but I’m trying to look ahead to the river and our possible v-bet.

On boards like this (where there are few draws that can call our turn bet) and against LP opposition, I find the line of betting the Turn for a free SD with A-high to be rather ineffective, especially if our kicker is under the one high card on the board since I think v-betting a spiked T, in this instance, is tough. We also give up the opportunity for one of them to make a bad river bluff (opportunity cost ). We are putting only 1 more BB into the pot either way (verse betting the Turn).

Again, this is micro/low stakes and we are facing LP opposition, so this is my read. Just thought I would add my experienced 2 cents in this instance.

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KQo at 31:00
Would you please respond to this with some Xcel with why this is a river v-bet? I think this is super thin at best. LP have tooons of Ax combos here, as you mentioned, especially since the board is paired. Hearts missed and we chop with all Kx. I think we need to balance a little in regards to all players calling with any PP here since a K and now A hit the board (ie, is 55 calling always?). Are we b/f’ing always? Thanks.

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lol.
“He’s that kind of mean guy.”
“This is why I drink.”
Love it.

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ATo at 48:00
Insta- b/f river. If you are c/r, he has flush, A6/K6/J6, 66 all day.

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AKs at 54:00
9799T board. KQs (etc) is never folding so I think this is an easy v-bet.

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“Oh, the maniac was in the pot. I must have been pissed.” lol. Awesome. Been there.

10 points for the use of “Willy-Nilly.”

Pygmy, great analysis the whole way. You da man.

Jess, just a little tip I used when I started to really consider v-betting and river play. If you think you have a v-bet, bet and call if they raise. Most of the time they will just call and you will get paid. Also, calling this raise is never losing you a full BB, so consider this the price of learning. You will not miss value and you will always see the opponent’s hand. Then, later on (don’t tilt, move-on ) you can post/review the hand and analyze the situation. That way, next time the situation arises (a million times) you will know exactly what to do and never feel bad about your action.

Another BankRoll management tip I created for myself when my tilt was not as in check as it is now are Win/Lose STOPLOSS goals. Here is what I did/do if I feel tilty:
Buy in for XBB, I like 20BB. Once I drop below or rise above a 10/12BB swing either way, I uncheck “auto-post blinds.” When I’m tilty, my rule is that I MUST, MUST do this. Now, to RECHECK auto-post blinds, I need to find a LOT of good reasons to do so… ie, huge, utterly horrendous whale to my immediate right. Otherwise, finish the orbit and get up. This will insure that you always book a win when up and never book a huge loss. Take a break (whether you’re up OR down) if you feel ANY negative emotion. If you feel only positive emotion, find another good table. If not, listen to some music or whatever will help bring your emotions back up.

** post a sticky note on your computer that says “SMILE!!! =)” **

Ciao.

BG

~0:45
Attempt to make Jess say "about" in a Canadian accent (e.g., 'aboot').
Mission failed.

I forgot to say, such obv TARP !

Kudos

<snip>

Ciao.

BG

Wow BG you sure put a lot of work in your responses. GG.

lol.
“He’s that kind of mean guy.”
“This is why I drink.”
Love it.

lots of mean guys at .50/1

10 points for the use of “Willy-Nilly.”

I remember thinking along those lines when Pygmy busted that out!

** post a sticky note on your computer that says “SMILE!!! =)” **

Amigo will save the day imo

Great vid again, keep up the good work! I'm blaming poker also for my drinking habit!

it's only natural

17:00 UTG opens, HJ calls, CO and BTN fold. I agree totally that we muck Q3s, but what is the worst suited queen you call here?
20:00 KTo after 3 limpers. Definitely call here as your RIO is high. I'll raise KTs with any number of limpers.

Disregarding the pot size would mean that I always have to win 50% of the time if I risk a bet on the river when called, in order to break even ON THAT BET , regardless of whether the pot is 3 BB or 30 BB.

fyp

PH assumed, in his analysis, that you are always CALLED on the river. sometimes you have the best hand and win. sometimes you have the worst hand and lose. regardless, you are risking 1 bet on the river. and since you are always called, your reward is always 1 bet... the bet he/she calls you with.

the money that is already in the pot is not being risked. that money already belongs to someone and it doesn't matter who as far as the river betting is concerned in this scenario.

let's say you have the best hand at the river and the pot is x dollars at this point. when you now risk 1 more bet on the river and get called, how much more do you win? you win 1 more bet! you are risking 1 to win 1. it is a 1:1 ratio.

alternatively, let's say you have the worst hand at the river and the pot is x dollars at this point. when you now risk 1 more bet on the river and get called, how much more do you lose? you lose 1 more bet! you are risking 1 to win 1. it is a 1:1 ratio.

17:00 UTG opens, HJ calls, CO and BTN fold. I agree totally that we muck Q3s, but what is the worst suited queen you call here?

my first instinct was Q8s b/c it has reasonable pair value with an 8, plus it can make a 2 card straight. however, stoving, assuming a 15-20% range for UTG, and a reasonable ccing range for HJ, and a random for the BB (who i assumed is coming)... and it looks like we don't start to get our fair share of hot/cold equity until QTs.

if we assume BB doesn't come along, then its a bit worse for us (our equity as compared to our share), but we do get subsidized by the dead BB and our relative position is better.

fyp

PH assumed, in his analysis, that you are always CALLED on the river. sometimes you have the best hand and win. sometimes you have the worst hand and lose. regardless, you are risking 1 bet on the river. and since you are always called, your reward is always 1 bet... the bet he/she calls you with.

the money that is already in the pot is not being risked. that money already belongs to someone and it doesn't matter who as far as the river betting is concerned in this scenario.

let's say you have the best hand at the river and the pot is x dollars at this point. when you now risk 1 more bet on the river and get called, how much more do you win? you win 1 more bet! you are risking 1 to win 1. it is a 1:1 ratio.

alternatively, let's say you have the worst hand at the river and the pot is x dollars at this point. when you now risk 1 more bet on the river and get called, how much more do you lose? you lose 1 more bet! you are risking 1 to win 1. it is a 1:1 ratio.

Oh, how stupid of me - I was a little confused.
So basically, if I got it right now: The bet on the river is not money we risk in order to win the pot (but just to win 1 additional bet) and therefore pot size is irrelevant.
And therefore the break even point for the bet-call scenario is higher (we have to be good more often) than for calling a bet.

Thanks, always learning s.th. new ;-)

Giants > Steelers ldo

Giants have a special place is my heart, for ending the Patriot's little tea party ^.^

Hey ritschke, it looks like this has already been sorted out in the thread, but let me just add one or two notes.

Keep in mind that I've imagined a very simple game (HU IP on the river and opponent cannot c/r) that is NOT poker. It has some poker elements and can be used as a framework for exploring and understanding poker situations.

I am not arguing that we can ignore the pot size - in fact I think there's an important point about pot size I'll make in a moment. The key is that the money in the pot belongs to the pot. All we can win/lose at this point (the river) are the bets we put in from now on. You seem to be ignoring the fact that when we check we sometimes win the pot.

Anyway, the point about pot size I wanted to make is that it does obviously affect how often your opponent will CALL you. The obvious implication there is that when the pot is bigger we should value bet more thinly since we expect to be called more liberally by weaker holdings.

BG, thanks for your great post here. I appreciate the effort you've put into it.

ATo at 26
I agree that a turn check may be best. At the least I think we need to VERY seriously consider it. I'm just not crazy about it 3 ways and I think when we bet and get called we very often are best. I'm with you. I also just don't think we're going to get bluffed off the best hand if we check back the turn and face a river bet (I think they'll be value betting).

KQo at 31
So I did some Stove work and I admit this isn't as stellar as I initially thought it was. I'm still going to favor a bet though since I like to keep the pressure on my opponents (give them a chance to make an error like folding a chop) and because I think we have a pretty easy fold if raised. If that's the case I'd rather go for the thin value and expose myself to potentially making a small error (I think we can agree it's not a huge error). As for your comment on 55, I mean yeah, I do kind of expect that hand to call here (not that it should). And the call with 88 I think bears this out since eights and fives are the same here. I'd also expect to get called by 33 FWIW.

Time stamp for willy-nilly?

17:00 UTG opens, HJ calls, CO and BTN fold. I agree totally that we muck Q3s, but what is the worst suited queen you call here?

My initial thought was Q8s because it can make a two card straight. I expect there to be some non-negligible equity gain once we move from Q7s to Q8s and I doubt it's huge between Q8s and Q9s. Upon stoving I think the former was true but the latter was not (the difference between Q8s and Q9s was ~1% (same as between Q7s and Q8s). That said, I still think Q8s probably gives us enough. I'd probably go a bit higher in a high rake environment - I'd definitely play QJs so I think QTs is likely then close.

20:00 KTo after 3 limpers. Definitely call here as your RIO is high. I'll raise KTs with any number of limpers.

Absolutely - I realized this at some point between episodes 1 and 2 and like it more and more as I think about it longer.

Anyway, the point about pot size I wanted to make is that it does obviously affect how often your opponent will CALL you. The obvious implication there is that when the pot is bigger we should value bet more thinly since we expect to be called more liberally by weaker holdings.

.. good point, thanks!

KQo at 31
So I did some Stove work and I admit this isn't as stellar as I initially thought it was...

I went back to check, we have position on this hand. Now, we didn't get donked into when the A hit on the river, so that's good, but I was thinking that we are going to be just-called by a pair of Aces here sometimes, making our v-bet worse against his whole range. So, we cannot only consider this bet to be good always.

Time stamp for willy-nilly?

lol. I took notes as I watched, so this must be within the last 5-10minutes.

peace

I think stoving is great, but you have to be carefull with it in alot of situations when using it to 'prove' something is good or bad. Hot and cold equity does not exist(ex all-in).
The main reason to play most of the suited connectors, one and two gappers in multiway pots for me is that these PLAY well against multiple people not so much that they do well as far as hot and cold equity goes.
Also...flopping straigh and flush or even straightflush draws is just too awesome.

Nice video Jess and PH - finally got the time to watch it all.

Agree with BG on the AT hand at 26:00, that a turn check IP is best here.
Agree with PH on the KQo at 31:00, that we should v-bet this river. An Ace would have donked into us, we chop with all K's but we get value from most other pairs. And if they fold, we did give them the change to make the mistake of calling and if we get check-raised we can safely fold.

17:00 UTG opens, HJ calls, CO and BTN fold. I agree totally that we muck Q3s, but what is the worst suited queen you call here?

I would go for Q8s. If the BB folds we need around 27% if his calling it's about 21%, and with our good IO I think Q8s is the borderline.

PygmyHero, this is the best explanation I have ever seen about river value betting in a video. Period.

I also had trouble with the KQ hand, but, I'll have to watch the vid again.

I love watching these videos, just for your Excel and Stove examples!!

[Just out of curiosity, and possible imitation..., what did you DO, in order to obsess about value betting? Seems one of the hardest things for me to get down in limit holdem! Thanks!]

PygmyHero, this is the best explanation I have ever seen about river value betting in a video. Period.

I also had trouble with the KQ hand, but, I'll have to watch the vid again.

I love watching these videos, just for your Excel and Stove examples!!

[Just out of curiosity, and possible imitation..., what did you DO, in order to obsess about value betting? Seems one of the hardest things for me to get down in limit holdem! Thanks!]

Thanks! I appreciate the feedback. As for obsessing about value betting, as I said in the video a big part of it really was calculating and understanding how much I was losing by being bad at it. When I figured it out it was truly sickening.

The casino example really hit home with me, but I think it's probably best understood in terms of your win rate. For example, let's say we took someone who wasn't good at value betting. We then go through a few random 100 hands samples and find spots where they missed value. Then Stove up some ranges and figure out how big an edge they passed on / how much they gave up by not value betting. I'd be shocked if superior vbetting didn't gain them at least 0.5 BB/100.

I think for a while my paranoia about vbetting caused me to be overly optimistic and bet in spots where I wasn't a favorite (i.e., value cutting). But that's okay - it was an important part of my learning process and I think what I lost from cutting was less than what I gained from vbetting correctly in spots where I had been checking (so this overly aggressive approach still yielded better results than what I had been doing). Of course I fine tuned that over time and am still working on it...