Poker Video: No Limit Hold'Em by BalugaWhale (Mid Stakes)

Time Link to 00:32:32

If he doesn't cbet, how he would react to a turn and river bet? You could bet turn and river there with all your range.

At about 16:22 you check some guys pre-flop stats, trying to argue that playing back at him is bad because he's so tight. But you look at his PFR stat. I think you are better off looking at his raise 1st stat, which tells you how often he decides to raise when it's folded to him pre-flop.

I think this player actually opens a fairly wide range, but because he 3-bets so rarely his PFR stat is going to be deceptively low. I also think he is a prime target for 3-betting a lot, and very polarized, as his (likely) player type just doesn't defend very much to 3-bets.

Time Link to 00:32:50

If we were oop with the nines, would change you option of not cbeting?

Time Link to 00:20:48

Even though this guy's nitty, he's opening OTB. It seems like he adds a lot of hands that dominate you but won't call a 3bet like KJ, QJ, AT, KTs.

On the AQs hand, where you decide to call a 3-bet OOP, can you expand on why you decide to check/shove the turn?

On the AQs hand, where you decide to call a 3-bet OOP, can you expand on why you decide to check/shove the turn?

In my opinion, villain is not likely to ship the river as a bluff, after being called twice on a Ahi, semi dry board.

On the other hand he can have hands like QJ, J9, or random stuff that have equity against us which will be freerolling on the river.

after losing 10 buyins at my regular stake, i was browsing DC and watched your 3 bet special video.

to practice the many marginal, high variance spots that your video described, i moved down to where the buyin was 1/4 of my old stake, and made over 40 buyins in 1 week, with a winrate of 12bb/100 hands over 35k hand sample with exactly 6 players seated at the table.

if people are giving u flak about playing oop they are wrong, it is a great way to get money in good when u have something like KQ oop to a 4 bet, etc.

you, sir, are a rapist, plz continue creating content.

Time Link to 00:31:15

I don't know that it's true he's going to play perfectly v a 3bet. Maybe a stakes thing, but I think 9s, Ts, Js, AQs are going to agonize at the least, and call a fair amount.

Time Link to 00:36:27

In this kind of situation, are you ever, and if so when/how, bluff raising to to steal it? Based on what the squeezer's range looks like, he check/gives up a lot. Assuming the original raiser is aware that it's a good squeeze spot, how often do you think he stabs or thin value bets something you can blow off the hand? I realize it's a pretty uncommon spot, but I'm just curious what if any circumstances you bluff because you rep really strong when you do raise a flop.

If he doesn't cbet, how he would react to a turn and river bet? You could bet turn and river there with all your range.

well, if my whole range is ahead of him, he should fold, and if my whole range is behind him, he should call down, and if i dont bet my whole range, he should fold, etc etc

At about 16:22 you check some guys pre-flop stats, trying to argue that playing back at him is bad because he's so tight. But you look at his PFR stat. I think you are better off looking at his raise 1st stat, which tells you how often he decides to raise when it's folded to him pre-flop.

I think this player actually opens a fairly wide range, but because he 3-bets so rarely his PFR stat is going to be deceptively low. I also think he is a prime target for 3-betting a lot, and very polarized, as his (likely) player type just doesn't defend very much to 3-bets.

this is probably fair and valid

On the AQs hand, where you decide to call a 3-bet OOP, can you expand on why you decide to check/shove the turn?

was thinking about this a lot after, actually.
the board doesn't run off great for a c/ship (there's not a ton of draws and stuff he can 2 barrel). So, if I don't c/r, my options on turn are to either donk (dont like), c/f (kinda like but is totally contrary to my preflop reasoning), or c/c (again, fine, but i think he never bluffs riv after I do it).

an interesting/tough spot, to be sure.

Andrew

I don't know that it's true he's going to play perfectly v a 3bet. Maybe a stakes thing, but I think 9s, Ts, Js, AQs are going to agonize at the least, and call a fair amount.

again, this is fair.
my q isnt whether or not I can get value, though, its whether or not I can get better value by calling.

a close call. with a read i'll easily swing one way or the other.

Andrew

In this kind of situation, are you ever, and if so when/how, bluff raising to to steal it? Based on what the squeezer's range looks like, he check/gives up a lot. Assuming the original raiser is aware that it's a good squeeze spot, how often do you think he stabs or thin value bets something you can blow off the hand? I realize it's a pretty uncommon spot, but I'm just curious what if any circumstances you bluff because you rep really strong when you do raise a flop.

it would probably be better to bluff 4bet pre.
im not sure how light the caller is flatting, but i imagine he has a ton of combos that v-bet flop and a ton of combos that check back, making him pretty polarized, etc.
idk, flop is one opportunity, but my gut feeling is that pre is a better one.

i think that hand was probably a misplay

Andrew

In my opinion, villain is not likely to ship the river as a bluff, after being called twice on a Ahi, semi dry board.

On the other hand he can have hands like QJ, J9, or random stuff that have equity against us which will be freerolling on the river.

I cringed at the turn shove. Hear me out.

Just because villain is never 3-barreling (which by the way @ 2/4 with only 52 hands on someone is not true) you can't just ship AQ. The only hand you are beating that might potentially call you but also might easily fold is AJ. Nothing else is calling when you shove against someone with a full buy-in who seems reggish.

I really don't think a-xs is going for 2 streets and any A-xs that is going for 2 streets has probably already made 2 pair.

I honestly would check call this turn and fold on a bad/most rivers assuming villain isn't 3 barreling light. It seems like the old 2+2 mantra of check call flop, check call turn, fold river...but honestly with no knowledge of this opponent I doubt we are ahead here very much if he 3 barrels us on an ace high dry board because our hand looks exactly like AQ, slowplayed AK or maybe AJ. Villain would have to be pretty maniacal to try and 3brl bluff a hand that seems pretty face up unless he has history.

It's not about shoving because you know he won't 3 barrel light (which you don't), it's about calling because we don't beat anything but AJ by shoving and villains line looks extremely strong.

Also to say he is getting free cards with random things is kind of a moot point considering he is 3-betting an UTG raiser which weights his range less toward QJ and J9d which are probably his only barreling hands (maybe KQ which probably flats pre 95% of the time same with JQs). Our hand is also AQ which means we have a blocker to that so it's a lot less likely as well.

Look, I know that @ 5/10 3-betting UTG raisers light is pretty much a well understood concept but I don't think you can count on every player at 2/4 knowing and applying this. Until proven otherwise assume villains range here is strong and that he does not know that 3-betting Baluga light here is printing money (for a while). I would be much more inclined to shove the turn here if villain had shown that he can 3-bet J9s or QJ to UTG opens.

Just because villain is never 3-barreling (which by the way @ 2/4 with only 52 hands on someone is not true) you can't just ship AQ. The only hand you are beating that might potentially call you but also might easily fold is AJ. Nothing else is calling when you shove against someone with a full buy-in who seems reggish.

I really don't think a-xs is going for 2 streets and any A-xs that is going for 2 streets has probably already made 2 pair.

I honestly would check call this turn and fold on a bad/most rivers assuming villain isn't 3 barreling light.

It's not about shoving because you know he won't 3 barrel light (which you don't), it's about calling because in a vacuum our hand isn't that strong and we know absolutely nothing about this opponent. It seems like the old 2+2 mantra of check call flop, check call turn, fold river...but honestly with no knowledge of this opponent I doubt we are ever ahead here.

i think this is a good post.
the only point i might disagree with is that we don't know he's 3 barreling light, i think its a fair assumption to start with readless.

id be lying if I said I didn't have a vision of me taking a c/c c/c c/f line and getting absolutely flamed here for being a terrible poker player, though. probably shouldn't consider that at all!

If the turn card burns of a FD, tho, I still prefer a ship.

Andrew

Time Link to 00:33:30

Hi Andrew!
Table 2
Could u explain why u decided to choose such a big value bet on the river especially when third flush cards hits?

i think this is a good post.
the only point i might disagree with is that we don't know he's 3 barreling light, i think its a fair assumption to start with readless.

id be lying if I said I didn't have a vision of me taking a c/c c/c c/f line and getting absolutely flamed here for being a terrible poker player, though. probably shouldn't consider that at all!

If the turn card burns of a FD, tho, I still prefer a ship.

Andrew

Awesome! Keep up the good work Andrew, you have some of the best videos on the site and tbh out of all 3 videos in the series this was the only play that was questionable (aside from ak but I didn't mind that play heh).

I think you're underestimating the value of just picking up the pot in all these spots where you've been flatting AK to 3bets. It's a pretty huge win to pick up a 13 big blind pot uncontested, and I'd find it hard to believe you win this much on average when you just flat.

I think you're underestimating the value of just picking up the pot in all these spots where you've been flatting AK to 3bets. It's a pretty huge win to pick up a 13 big blind pot uncontested.

perhaps true

i think you're underestimating AK's equity vs a polarized range though

Andrew

Time Link to 00:56:15

Even though he might be raising you wide here preflop, what hands do you think he bets the turn with that you beat?

Even though he might be raising you wide here preflop, what hands do you think he bets the turn with that you beat?

i think this is a valid question that i addressed above.

Andrew

Time Link to 00:31:18

can you expand on why you like flatting KK there but AA is prob a 3bet? wouldnt flatting AA make him make even more mistakes post flop because now hands like Axs can't spike an A on the flop and beat you?

can you expand on why you like flatting KK there but AA is prob a 3bet? wouldnt flatting AA make him make even more mistakes post flop because now hands like Axs can't spike an A on the flop and beat you?

basically:

1) if you can get more value post than pre, you should flat. if you can get more value pre than post, you should 3bet.

2) your value pre with AA is obv ultra clean, whereas in that position with KK, its somewhat significantly less clean (i.e. if he gets splashy with like AA, AK, QQ, maybe JJ) thats not super great for us with KK whereas its awesome with AA.

obviously i'd rather have AA in both cases, its just a question of where the cleanest value is going to come from.

Andrew

basically:

1) if you can get more value post than pre, you should flat. if you can get more value pre than post, you should 3bet.

2) your value pre with AA is obv ultra clean, whereas in that position with KK, its somewhat significantly less clean (i.e. if he gets splashy with like AA, AK, QQ, maybe JJ) thats not super great for us with KK whereas its awesome with AA.

obviously i'd rather have AA in both cases, its just a question of where the cleanest value is going to come from.

Andrew

if we have KK, aren't we usually getting it in against AA whether we flat or 3bet, and if he gets splashy with QQ and JJ (and even AK) pre, isnt that good for KK (whereas we could lose action from QQ and JJ on an A high flop)? i.e. if villain will get it in pre with AK, QQ, JJ, vs our KK, arent we happy? isnt part of our reason for flatting to keep JJ and QQ in because 3betting an utg raiser from the blinds might look so strong that those hands might fold?

i understand our value is cleaner with AA than with KK pre and post and that theres not that much of a difference, but doenst flatting AA force more mistakes than flatting KK does because while he will make the same mistakes against us post flop with hands like QJs and JTs when they make top pairs/semi bluffing hands and medium pocket pairs on low boards ect whether we have AA or KK, all of his suited Aces, AJ, and AQ can now spike an A against us and win?

i guess i just dont really see the "line" between KK and AA making one better to flat and one better to 3bet in the same situation.

also, what would be ur standard with QQ in that same spot?

tyia

http://www.deucescracked.com/videos/8281-Episode-Three?seek=234

Why are we betting so small on this turn?

Also, when he CR'd flop I presumed that a pretty viable option was that as we only flatted a donk bet vs suspected weak player whose range is presumably weak SA3 may be CRing pretty wide. You seem to give him more credit.

balugawhale, one thing i noticed about your videos is you never explain your betsizing, which is pretty annoying seeing as how you actually vary it a lot. like there are tons of spots where you made unusually sized bets in this video, 1/2 pot on the turn, full pot on the river, etc.

balugawhale, one thing i noticed about your videos is you never explain your betsizing, which is pretty annoying seeing as how you actually vary it a lot. like there are tons of spots where you made unusually sized bets in this video, 1/2 pot on the turn, full pot on the river, etc.

noted! Will explain this better in the future. thx for the feedback.

Andrew

http://www.deucescracked.com/videos/8281-Episode-Three?seek=234

Why are we betting so small on this turn?

Also, when he CR'd flop I presumed that a pretty viable option was that as we only flatted a donk bet vs suspected weak player whose range is presumably weak SA3 may be CRing pretty wide. You seem to give him more credit.

i didn't really think that i was behind once he checks the turn (or even after preflop, on the flop, at all lol). however, im concerned with getting the most value from the types of hands that are exactly what he repped.

one way of getting great value is by going small on turn then big on river, it looks awkward and confusing to villains and often causes them to call. just a thought.

Andrew

Time Link to 00:11:44

Can you explain why its such a big leak for him to be 3b/folding AT/AJ there? Seems pretty reasonable to me

noted! Will explain this better in the future. thx for the feedback.

Andrew

thanks for replying, andrew.

at the time i posted that reply i didn't have the time to pick out specific examples. there is one hand where i was curious about your betsizing and rather disappointed that you didn't elaborate.

the hand is at 33:10, K5o against SilentAssassin3 where you turn 2 pair. you pot the river (102 into 105) when the flush gets there. it would seem that a lot of your turn barreling range consists of spade draws, and you can obviously have a lot of combos of spades when you raise the button, along with countless 2 pairs, straights, and some sets. i mean, you raised the button, so you have like all combos of 2 pairs.

when you pot that river, isn't it difficult for him to call with a K, which is presumably a big part of his range? were you trying to level him with your sizing and look super polarized?

i mean, not to be results oriented, but he tank-folded, so i think he folded a K... which is a really bad result for you of course.

thanks again, and i do really enjoy the videos.

Can you explain why its such a big leak for him to be 3b/folding AT/AJ there? Seems pretty reasonable to me

3betting hands when somebody doesnt call worse, but does raise them, but you fold to their raises, is bad.

its not bad to 3b/fold AT/AJ if you have a good idea the guy calls with worse but only 4bets better.

Andrew

My reason for V to be Cbetting those 99 on AJx after UTG open:
- if he checks, his range is face-up and will have to face tough decisions on later streets (like when you overbet a blank turn i.e. or just barrel 2 streets)
- if he checks, it polarizes his Cbetting range and next time in this spot, if his range is polarized I believe it makes playing him easier, any pocket pair becomes a easy call, evaluating his range on later streets seems easier too
-by cbetting he's often getting the dead money from the pot which is never bad
Could you explain to me why am I wrong?

Time Link to 00:24:10

Are we calling the turn to fold to draw completion cards (there are so many on the river) and pretty much fold even when the best cards that hit us come off which is correct b/c like you said, the river is not a bluff if it's dry that often and I really don't see a vbet with worst than aj. Should we fold the turn? Even given that a good opponent is value betting kj and qj still on the turn, maybe at/kt if he thinks you're going to play a draw passively.

If he's bluffing a wet river or a dry river and we call, we'd learn a lot about our opponent, but I think people are more likely to vbet any river a lot more often than they are to bluff it.

This is a tough spot even in position, I think I'd just fold the turn oop. What would be a good river bet sizing when checked to on a dry card? What do you think about an underbet vs something 2/3-3/4th pot?

3betting hands when somebody doesnt call worse, but does raise them, but you fold to their raises, is bad.

its not bad to 3b/fold AT/AJ if you have a good idea the guy calls with worse but only 4bets better.

Andrew

You don't think people will fold better? Maybe at 400NL 3betting MP vs UTG isn't perceived as super strong, but I think at lower stakes people will fold AQ/AJ and strong mid-pairs. He should probably have a 3bet bluffing range there, so why not pick the top of his folding range that has good blockers?

You don't think people will fold better? Maybe at 400NL 3betting MP vs UTG isn't perceived as super strong, but I think at lower stakes people will fold AQ/AJ and strong mid-pairs. He should probably have a 3bet bluffing range there, so why not pick the top of his folding range that has good blockers?

again, he's not bluffing if nobodys folding better, and they're not folding better but AJ/AT is ahead of the guys range, he should prob just flat.

Andrew

My reason for V to be Cbetting those 99 on AJx after UTG open:
- if he checks, his range is face-up and will have to face tough decisions on later streets (like when you overbet a blank turn i.e. or just barrel 2 streets)
- if he checks, it polarizes his Cbetting range and next time in this spot, if his range is polarized I believe it makes playing him easier, any pocket pair becomes a easy call, evaluating his range on later streets seems easier too
-by cbetting he's often getting the dead money from the pot which is never bad
Could you explain to me why am I wrong?

- its about making right choices, not making things easier to play
- 99 isnt the only hand he should be checking on this flop
- dead money means he would've folded his equity but now gets a clean shot at it. however, if villain is behind he almost always stays behind, and if villain is ahead he never folds, and if hes behind but has equity (KQ, lets say), he's not folding, and so we're not collecting dead money.

Andrew

Are we calling the turn to fold to draw completion cards (there are so many on the river) and pretty much fold even when the best cards that hit us come off which is correct b/c like you said, the river is not a bluff if it's dry that often and I really don't see a vbet with worst than aj. Should we fold the turn? Even given that a good opponent is value betting kj and qj still on the turn, maybe at/kt if he thinks you're going to play a draw passively.

If he's bluffing a wet river or a dry river and we call, we'd learn a lot about our opponent, but I think people are more likely to vbet any river a lot more often than they are to bluff it.

This is a tough spot even in position, I think I'd just fold the turn oop. What would be a good river bet sizing when checked to on a dry card? What do you think about an underbet vs something 2/3-3/4th pot?

we're IP in the hand
and ya, i'd fold river to another bet with AJ, but not necessarily with everything I had in that spot.
if I had JT, say, and he checked, id fire out a small v-bet, but i wouldn't expect it to get called SUPER often. I was really interested to see what he was donking with.


Andrew

- its about making right choices, not making things easier to play
- 99 isnt the only hand he should be checking on this flop
- dead money means he would've folded his equity but now gets a clean shot at it. however, if villain is behind he almost always stays behind, and if villain is ahead he never folds, and if hes behind but has equity (KQ, lets say), he's not folding, and so we're not collecting dead money.

Andrew

Thx for replying. Sorry to drag this out, but I guess you didn't explain it clear enough for me. Sorry for being hard to get to Here are my thoughts on that:

99 obviously isn't the only hand he's checking, but assuming he's polarizing his range, the only hands he is checking are medium value hands, so the best being probably somewhere around JTs (if he even opens that UTG) and the worst something like 77. Because I think we agree he should bet all his air here and all his aces. So his hand range is face-up, and our is completely undefined

Betting sets up a lot of better future spots from my perspective:
-we can't just call down light (his range is unpolarized and has a lot of medium pairs)
-when we fold, we always have equity, at least 2 outs, but sometimes as much as 10 w/KQ or QT
-when we call he can represent a lot of holdings on future streets and easily get us off a better hand because his value range will be wide enough we won't be able to profitably call 3 barrels even w/ a weak A (assuming he 3barrels AQ+ what isn't unreasonable)

So it's ultimately harder for us if he bets unless we're at the top of our range. Sure, we can fight that with bluff raising from time to time, but it doesent mean he isn't aware we can.

Does checking set up any profitable situations?
-he will have to fold without any reads when we 2 barrel after a check, because our value range again will be pretty wide, any J+
-we get 2 streets to realize our equity (i.e. bluffing turn and getting there on the river) River isnt exactly a "free" street assuming we're betting the turn, but we compensate that w/ fold equity.

And just to clarify, I'm not claiming I'm right, you're wrong. Actually, I bet you're probably right and my thought proccess is flawed somewhere, I'd just like to know where

Time Link to 00:24:31

I don't really understand why you continue betting the turn against this opponent when you said he's nitty, and you would employ a fit or fold strategy when defending (or did I misunderstand?). I can see you raising this flop as an immediate steal, since like c/r this flop vs him is like stealing his blinds probably, which you would do over and over.
You mention the Q turn as being a good card to keep barreling, but it's not like you have anything actually, and the nit called your checkraise, and is very likely to call at least one more time. So actually giving up on that river seems bad to me, in the sense that it should be a c/r steal on the flop and give up, or betting 3 streets to rep the flush or better and trips. Maybe AQ.

Then again, playing a FD that way kinda seems bad too, since he's calling most river blanks and folding to flush cards.

Anyway, just giving up after the c/r seems better to me, because if we barrel this gutshot on the turn, we should bet the river flushcard, or we don't ever have a bluffing range, which seems odd since we 2barrel with air.

Time Link to 00:32:00

About the opponent cbetting with 99. The only reason would be to avoid getting bluffed on the turn? All the hands that would have folded can now bet the turn, and he can't really call without a read. Is it that big of a mistake?

About the opponent cbetting with 99. The only reason would be to avoid getting bluffed on the turn? All the hands that would have folded can now bet the turn, and he can't really call without a read. Is it that big of a mistake?

if hes "getting bluffed a lot", why couldn't he call?

I don't really understand why you continue betting the turn against this opponent when you said he's nitty, and you would employ a fit or fold strategy when defending (or did I misunderstand?). I can see you raising this flop as an immediate steal, since like c/r this flop vs him is like stealing his blinds probably, which you would do over and over.
You mention the Q turn as being a good card to keep barreling, but it's not like you have anything actually, and the nit called your checkraise, and is very likely to call at least one more time. So actually giving up on that river seems bad to me, in the sense that it should be a c/r steal on the flop and give up, or betting 3 streets to rep the flush or better and trips. Maybe AQ.

Then again, playing a FD that way kinda seems bad too, since he's calling most river blanks and folding to flush cards.

Anyway, just giving up after the c/r seems better to me, because if we barrel this gutshot on the turn, we should bet the river flushcard, or we don't ever have a bluffing range, which seems odd since we 2barrel with air.

my thought was that he folds down to a T+ to 2 barrels on that card, so he has a T like all the time once he calls the turn bet.

Andrew

Thx for replying. Sorry to drag this out, but I guess you didn't explain it clear enough for me. Sorry for being hard to get to Here are my thoughts on that:

99 obviously isn't the only hand he's checking, but assuming he's polarizing his range, the only hands he is checking are medium value hands, so the best being probably somewhere around JTs (if he even opens that UTG) and the worst something like 77. Because I think we agree he should bet all his air here and all his aces. So his hand range is face-up, and our is completely undefined

Betting sets up a lot of better future spots from my perspective:
-we can't just call down light (his range is unpolarized and has a lot of medium pairs)
-when we fold, we always have equity, at least 2 outs, but sometimes as much as 10 w/KQ or QT
-when we call he can represent a lot of holdings on future streets and easily get us off a better hand because his value range will be wide enough we won't be able to profitably call 3 barrels even w/ a weak A (assuming he 3barrels AQ+ what isn't unreasonable)

So it's ultimately harder for us if he bets unless we're at the top of our range. Sure, we can fight that with bluff raising from time to time, but it doesent mean he isn't aware we can.

Does checking set up any profitable situations?
-he will have to fold without any reads when we 2 barrel after a check, because our value range again will be pretty wide, any J+
-we get 2 streets to realize our equity (i.e. bluffing turn and getting there on the river) River isnt exactly a "free" street assuming we're betting the turn, but we compensate that w/ fold equity.

And just to clarify, I'm not claiming I'm right, you're wrong. Actually, I bet you're probably right and my thought proccess is flawed somewhere, I'd just like to know where

this could probably be summed up as "when your equity is worse than your opponents', nothing seems like its a good play"

but checking flop is much closer to "giving up" than checking to induce.

also a lot of things that you seem to think are auto-flop bets (big draws, weak aces, etc) probably aren't either.



Andrew

this could probably be summed up as "when your equity is worse than your opponents', nothing seems like its a good play"

but checking flop is much closer to "giving up" than checking to induce.

also a lot of things that you seem to think are auto-flop bets (big draws, weak aces, etc) probably aren't either.



Andrew

Ok, I guess that'll have to do. I just don't really feel comfortable with that as I'm experiencing a cognitive disonanse Thats because I've read your book not so long ago and your stand on this matter was completely different and you explained it there pretty throughoutly and convincing, at least for me- as you can see I'm still fighing for your old beliefs

Ok, I guess that'll have to do. I just don't really feel comfortable with that as I'm experiencing a cognitive disonanse Thats because I've read your book not so long ago and your stand on this matter was completely different and you explained it there pretty throughoutly and convincing, at least for me- as you can see I'm still fighing for your old beliefs

to clarify how the two work together--

cbetting 99 on a K73 flop is v different than a AJ4 flop.

Holla

Andrew

Yeah, obviously. I wasn't referring to any specific example. More to the whole "Great debate" chapter, if I recall correctly.

You advised there to cbet everything unless you're just giving up, as I recall.

Anyway, looking forward to your next vid

thanks for replying, andrew.

at the time i posted that reply i didn't have the time to pick out specific examples. there is one hand where i was curious about your betsizing and rather disappointed that you didn't elaborate.

the hand is at 33:10, K5o against SilentAssassin3 where you turn 2 pair. you pot the river (102 into 105) when the flush gets there. it would seem that a lot of your turn barreling range consists of spade draws, and you can obviously have a lot of combos of spades when you raise the button, along with countless 2 pairs, straights, and some sets. i mean, you raised the button, so you have like all combos of 2 pairs.

when you pot that river, isn't it difficult for him to call with a K, which is presumably a big part of his range? were you trying to level him with your sizing and look super polarized?

i mean, not to be results oriented, but he tank-folded, so i think he folded a K... which is a really bad result for you of course.

thanks again, and i do really enjoy the videos.

not trying to be rude but i thought it was a good question if i can say so myself

not trying to be rude but i thought it was a good question if i can say so myself

missed this!

can't say for certain he tank-folded a K. basically, he's bluff catching no matter what, there, and the T of spades is pretty rough for me to get value because he can no longer imagine a lot of worse value hands going for thin value if he has a hand like KQ. So, at this point, im either bluffing or I'm not, regardless, and that's a good time to raise your bet size imo.

Andrew

00:29:06 on 12/03/10: QJo hand you decide to 4bet oop to 3x. is this standard 4bet sizing for u here vs competent reg when oop?
Im assuming u would raise value hands the same amount in this spot for balance?
I thought that generally it is better to 4bet closer to 2.2-2.5x with your whole 4bet range?
are you concerned that villain may flat your 4bet some % of time if u make it smaller here?

ps, i wanna have your baby, unfortunately im male.

Yeah, obviously. I wasn't referring to any specific example. More to the whole "Great debate" chapter, if I recall correctly.

You advised there to cbet everything unless you're just giving up, as I recall.

Anyway, looking forward to your next vid

In reply to your first post.
The "future" spots are expensive to realize. Checking in this instance on this flop given these dynamics is immediately profitable. 99 is vbetting against itself here specifically, if you want to run a 3 street+ bluff you're not getting enough hands to fold and you have bad equity to improve.

In reply to this conversation:
I don't think BW's stance is being inconsistent b/w his book and this spot. I think the point of the discussion in the book is to be more fluid given cards/position/opponents/ etc etc. Same line of thought imo.

Betting is good when betting is good, checking is good when checking is good.

=)

not trying to be rude but i thought it was a good question if i can say so myself

I'm assuming both players have enough respect for eachother's game to know that their value and bluff ranges are wide in this spot. River's a really good card bvb for bluffing and vbetting. A total brick on the river makes it really obv that BW's betting the river for value, the spade is a lot better if SA3 has a bluff catcher. Also I don't think SA3 folded a king.

I think they both know ranges are merged here and hence the big bet.
=)

perhaps true

i think you're underestimating AK's equity vs a polarized range though

Andrew

AK crushes a 3b, it does not crush most 5b shoves. I think it's counter-intuitive to pick up the dead money with a 4b when you hold ak even if villain's 3b is depolarized. The best thing about 4betting ak isn't to pick up the dead $ imo, it's when people shove a5 or aq.

Also like BW said, picking up that cb and possible multi barrel on k84 etc is huge.

In reply to your first post.
The "future" spots are expensive to realize. Checking in this instance on this flop given these dynamics is immediately profitable. 99 is vbetting against itself here specifically, if you want to run a 3 street+ bluff you're not getting enough hands to fold and you have bad equity to improve.

=)

I disagree here that 3 barrelling is unprofitable. And had to do some pokerstove to prove my point. UTG standard open range is somewhere about AT+ AA-22, KQ, KJs - thats already 12% and if I'm reading that guy's stats correclty he has 14pfr, so even this range is prolly too loose for his UTG open. 4.5% of his range is pure 3barrel value hands (AQ+) - thats over 1/3 of his entire opening range. All turn and river blanks help slightly his range, not ours so his value range can even increase by spiking a random set. Considering you can't just assume w/o strong reads he never ever checks behind this flop, do you really consider calling a 3 barrel w/AT profitable here?

AK crushes a 3b, it does not crush most 5b shoves. I think it's counter-intuitive to pick up the dead money with a 4b when you hold ak even if villain's 3b is depolarized. The best thing about 4betting ak isn't to pick up the dead $ imo, it's when people shove a5 or aq.

Also like BW said, picking up that cb and possible multi barrel on k84 etc is huge.

Also, I like this change in gameplan from Andrew from the "book times" when he advised to always 4bet or fold OOP, because calling here seems perfectly resonable and is explained pretty well, I just can't get over the Cbet thing somehow

I disagree here that 3 barrelling is unprofitable. And had to do some pokerstove to prove my point. UTG standard open range is somewhere about AT+ AA-22, KQ, KJs - thats already 12% and if I'm reading that guy's stats correclty he has 14pfr, so even this range is prolly too loose for his UTG open. 4.5% of his range is pure 3barrel value hands (AQ+) - thats over 1/3 of his entire opening range. All turn and river blanks help slightly his range, not ours so his value range can even increase by spiking a random set. Considering you can't just assume w/o strong reads he never ever checks behind this flop, do you really consider calling a 3 barrel w/AT profitable here?

It's not so much that I'd consider calling down with a weak or even a strong ace on this flop. The point is that you are spending a lot of $ to bluff off the bottom of a c/c range vs a tight utg open (assuming im not a fish). I don't have AT that often vs utg esp if he's tight.

If I called the flop I'm beating 99 and it's rarely marginal or even a float. You have to bet 3x to fold anything that called you once.

I think you might be confusing the frequency of how often a cbet might work in spots in general vs how often/with what hands you should be doing it with.

Also, it's unprofitable b/c it's expensive. The money that calls you is live money.

Time Link to 00:04:13

Bluff river here ever to fold out AQ and AJ?

Great video, thx alot!

Probably some record in most AA/KK/QQ dealt in a video btw

Hey Baluga,

You mention twice once with AK the other with AQ about flatting vs 3bet comparing with the AK hand in episode 2. But the hand in episode 2 is flatting a 4bet, i dont see it being the same situation at all.

Hey Baluga,

You mention twice once with AK the other with AQ about flatting vs 3bet comparing with the AK hand in episode 2. But the hand in episode 2 is flatting a 4bet, i dont see it being the same situation at all.

villain is polarized both times, no?

Andrew

Bluff river here ever to fold out AQ and AJ?

thought crossed my mind, I wasn't confident that he'd fold AJ/AQ.

Andrew

Time Link to 00:56:50

I don't think you can justify your turn check ship by saying well you woulda 4 bet pre anyway as the hand plays out differently, you pick up different info like when he bets turn... why would you want him to fold his air and snap off all his better hands?

Time Link to 00:18:45

So what does it take for us to be able to setmine profitably against these nits?
- If his 3bet size was a little smaller? Say 40$ instead of 44$ - would that do it?

Obviously deeper stacks would be beneficial and I know that we dont know much about this guy yet, but is it possible to set up some specifik guidelines for when to setmine facing a 3bet?

How about a hand like 56s?

Time Link to 00:10:11

if we do fold in this spot, which I think is the best play, isn't it better to just fold T7s in this spot preflop then?
I mean we basically hit one of the best boards for our hand (other than trips or two pair or something) and we are still giving up on the turn.

And now I realise there is a fish in the blinds and your preflop play is probably fine then, whoops

Time Link to 00:14:46

JJ top left: what do you think about a smaller raisesize?
I'd rather make it something like 38$ or even minraise to make him spazz.
Especially cause he can't have too many TP hands.

Time Link to 00:16:19

you shouldn't check out the CO PFR, but the raise 1st CO stat
He is opening 32% (after the hand 36%) if it's folded to him on the CO.
And in my HUD if I click on the ATS stat it automatically shows me the raise first stat from CO/BU/SB, which is pretty nice.

I am probably teaching baluga some things right now, feels great, lol

Time Link to 00:18:02

AK, bottom right: what do we do if he shoves over the top of our turn bet?
and what do you think about a very small flopraise to get him to shove with a diamond or KQ?

JJ top left: what do you think about a smaller raisesize?
I'd rather make it something like 38$ or even minraise to make him spazz.
Especially cause he can't have too many TP hands.

seems fine

AK, bottom right: what do we do if he shoves over the top of our turn bet?
and what do you think about a very small flopraise to get him to shove with a diamond or KQ?

better options with history, i think hes likely to barrel both and/or not fold them on the turn.

im not folding if he checks turn. im not folding if he bets turn, either. if he owns me with a random weak range when i flop tptk, thems tha breakz

Time Link to 00:55:52

A3s top right: so we have 119$ behind, what do we do if he c/shoves?
I'm prolly just paying off, but isn't he never ever bluffing and never ever vbetting worse for value (especially now that we only have a one card straight)?
It would suck very hard to fold with 3/4 of our stack in the pot, but isn't it better to just save the 30bb?

Time Link to 00:56:02

I don't like the check/raise with AQ on the turn at all.
There is absolutely no reason to do so, in my opinion.

We don't get a better hand to fold ever obv and I see basically 0 chance we get paid off by worse.
He is very likely to check worse Ax behind on the turn (what reason should he have to bet AJ here?), he is probably also checking behind some of the weaker draws, if he got there somehow with it.
He prolly bets J9s though to get you off mid PPs, but he won't stack off anyways and there is so little J9 in his range cause he has to bluff 3bet in the first place, which he is very unlikely to do with J9s, cause people just love to have blockers like Ax and Kx in this spot, then he has to bluff cbet, he has to bluff 2nd barrel and not check behind etc.
Not even close enough of J9 and other draws to check/ship here to protect (and if there are they get probably overweighted by other random two pair combinations).

You are way way way more likely to get stacked every single time by AK, A8, A5, AT (hands that are way more likely to bluff3bet than every single possible draw), don't forget the one combo of AA, and as you said, if he can have J9 (which I think he would fold to a c/shove, saving 50bb) he can also have T8 and crush you, so thats basically another reason against c/shipping and not pro, I think.

And seriously, you as the guy that is all about reasons for betting should instantly know that it's no reason for betting when you say "I would have 4bet and get it in anyways". Thats absolutely no argument.
Would be the same like stacking off with AsKd on T987cccc in a 3bet pot, saying "well I would have gotten it in preflop if he'd 4bet anyways".

And saying "I'm just not going to fold them" is just a bad approach in poker... thats why the fish get stacked with their TP every time.
Even if you really don't want to fold it, why do you c/raise and push all of his bluffs out of his range and not just c/c turn, c/c river, where he would probably sometimes show up with a bluff (way more likely than he stacks off with worse on the turn imo)?

This is not frustrating, this is just played bad imo, sorry bro

I don't know why nobody but ceegee comments on that, as this is probably the worst hand I've ever saw baluga play...


I might be terribly wrong with all that, cause you are a way greater poker mind than I am, but all my bad play alarm clocks are ringing here and your reasoning just doesn't make any sense.
So if you still think that c/shoving is good there, please prove it to me with real arguments and tell me where I am wrong

hahaha, now that I've watched the end, I'm probably going to be the Malefiicus of this video

A3s top right: so we have 119$ behind, what do we do if he c/shoves?
I'm prolly just paying off, but isn't he never ever bluffing and never ever vbetting worse for value (especially now that we only have a one card straight)?
It would suck very hard to fold with 3/4 of our stack in the pot, but isn't it better to just save the 30bb?

bleh, its probably a fold but some players are capable of suicide bluffing, idk if mypkrtime is one of them.

Andrew

I don't like the check/raise with AQ on the turn at all.
There is absolutely no reason to do so, in my opinion.

We don't get a better hand to fold ever obv and I see basically 0 chance we get paid off by worse.
He is very likely to check worse Ax behind on the turn (what reason should he have to bet AJ here?), he is probably also checking behind some of the weaker draws, if he got there somehow with it.
He prolly bets J9s though to get you off mid PPs, but he won't stack off anyways and there is so little J9 in his range cause he has to bluff 3bet in the first place, which he is very unlikely to do with J9s, cause people just love to have blockers like Ax and Kx in this spot, then he has to bluff cbet, he has to bluff 2nd barrel and not check behind etc.
Not even close enough of J9 and other draws to check/ship here to protect (and if there are they get probably overweighted by other random two pair combinations).

You are way way way more likely to get stacked every single time by AK, A8, A5, AT (hands that are way more likely to bluff3bet than every single possible draw), don't forget the one combo of AA, and as you said, if he can have J9 (which I think he would fold to a c/shove, saving 50bb) he can also have T8 and crush you, so thats basically another reason against c/shipping and not pro, I think.

And seriously, you as the guy that is all about reasons for betting should instantly know that it's no reason for betting when you say "I would have 4bet and get it in anyways". Thats absolutely no argument.
Would be the same like stacking off with AsKd on T987cccc in a 3bet pot, saying "well I would have gotten it in preflop if he'd 4bet anyways".

And saying "I'm just not going to fold them" is just a bad approach in poker... thats why the fish get stacked with their TP every time.
Even if you really don't want to fold it, why do you c/raise and push all of his bluffs out of his range and not just c/c turn, c/c river, where he would probably sometimes show up with a bluff (way more likely than he stacks off with worse on the turn imo)?

This is not frustrating, this is just played bad imo, sorry bro

I don't know why nobody but ceegee comments on that, as this is probably the worst hand I've ever saw baluga play...


I might be terribly wrong with all that, cause you are a way greater poker mind than I am, but all my bad play alarm clocks are ringing here and your reasoning just doesn't make any sense.
So if you still think that c/shoving is good there, please prove it to me with real arguments and tell me where I am wrong

hahaha, now that I've watched the end, I'm probably going to be the Malefiicus of this video

i dont necessarily think youre wrong. but lets chat

1) the point i was making about getting it in postflop rather than pre is that, even if i get stacked post, shipping pre is clearly our most "expensive" option. its like the difference between floating a gutshot or bluffraising flop with it. They cost the same, but floating allows us to see an extra card, and see what our opponent's going to do

2) as for the c/r vs the c/c (or c/f), if he's unlikely to bluff turn, then I should probably c/f. If he is likely to bluff turn, he's unlikely to bluff river. So, i suppose a better line might look like-- c/f turn, if he checks back turn, then v-bet riv? just feels dirty c/f the turn when he starts off with so much air on every street prior

Andrew

i dont necessarily think youre wrong. but lets chat

1) the point i was making about getting it in postflop rather than pre is that, even if i get stacked post, shipping pre is clearly our most "expensive" option. its like the difference between floating a gutshot or bluffraising flop with it. They cost the same, but floating allows us to see an extra card, and see what our opponent's going to do

2) as for the c/r vs the c/c (or c/f), if he's unlikely to bluff turn, then I should probably c/f. If he is likely to bluff turn, he's unlikely to bluff river. So, i suppose a better line might look like-- c/f turn, if he checks back turn, then v-bet riv? just feels dirty c/f the turn when he starts off with so much air on every street prior

Andrew

I agree with point 1
But this point basically just says that calling preflop is probably better than getting stacks in and has not so much to do with our turn decision here imo.
As you said, it's like with bluffraising or floating, we get more information by calling than by raising, but why don't we want to just use the information we get and try to not get stacked?
If I'm just floating with the gutshot the plan is to take it away on a later street (or improve obv) but when he snap pots an ugly turn I use the information I get, throw the plan out of the window and just fold.
In this case we don't have to fold necessarily, but we have to use our information and see that it's reasonably likely he has us beat, that it is very hard to get value from worse, that no better hands are folding and therefore a shove might not be the best option, even if the plan was to stack off preflop.

Which leads me to point 2.
All your reasoning speaks for c/calling, doesn't it?
I agree that it sucks to check/fold, given that he still is very likely to have a lot of air in his range and it's a great board for him to try to barrel us off mid PPs or something like that.
And I also agree that he is unlikely to bluff the river if he is bluffing the turn (we look a lot like TP then and I think he expects us to fold everything we don't want to get stacks in on the turn).
Aren't that very good reasons to just check/call the turn and c/fold to a river shove?

Yes we might get drawn out sometimes, which sucks in such a big pot, but we also don't lose our whole stack the times he has us beat, which is far more likely than him having a draw imo.
And he doesn't have super high equity, even with the best draw in his range (which would be 76 he only has 18% equity, with J9 it's only 15% and J9 is more likely than 76 imo), with a gutter like KQ he is only drawing to 9%.
I think we can afford the risk of getting outdrawn by saving the 50BB left against his better hands.

hi andrew, nice vid!

i have a few questions:

25:50 right bottom table, K9s: there are rivers you ship/or going for a bet?

33:50 K5o, right upper table: why you betting so large on the river when the flush comes in ?

why are you 4betbluffing so large, the guy with the cat at the upper right table, which 3bets your 12$ open to 32$ twice?

Time Link to 00:38:23

His line dosent make any sense at all. I think thats theres a big chance that he put u on a float and then try to go for a c/r on the turn with air. If he do have a value hand i think he sloughters it pretty bad...