Poker Video: No Limit Hold'Em by Joe Tall (Micro/Small Stakes)

cant wait to see how i miss value and how i valuetown myself

mmm video is here but no update on forums yet?

ahh I just saw what joe tall posted saying they will not be released until later this afternoon then... well sleepy time for me

Great Quiz! Great vid!

Two remarks:

1) Question 6 vs the maniac i still like a check back on the turn. To a better player this line is pretty obvious. But in my experience these guys fire the river like always if we show any sign of weakness. And do we really have to worry about balancing versus that guy?

2) Question 10 vs the LAG villain. Is 4bet folding really that bad? I know we are turning our hand almost into a bluff. But over this sample size we could also asume he's a decent LAG picking up hands and not a total maniac. In this case I don't think we are good with AKo. Before I stick in 250BB I just want to have some more proof that he's going crazy in really big pots.

On the JTs hand if you call the flop raise the pot will be be $37 and he has $23 left so any talk about betting turn and "then on river......"
seems a little pointless surely :-)

trevor

On the JTs hand if you call the flop raise the pot will be be $37 and he has $23 left so any talk about betting turn and "then on river......"
seems a little pointless surely :-)

trevor

Really? Did I misread stacks? Assume my analysis was for 100bb deep, if I misread stacks and he only has $23 left then shoving all in is the correct answer and we will rescore to reflect that... Sorry!

Great Quiz! Great vid!

Two remarks:

1) Question 6 vs the maniac i still like a check back on the turn. To a better player this line is pretty obvious. But in my experience these guys fire the river like always if we show any sign of weakness. And do we really have to worry about balancing versus that guy?

2) Question 10 vs the LAG villain. Is 4bet folding really that bad? I know we are turning our hand almost into a bluff. But over this sample size we could also asume he's a decent LAG picking up hands and not a total maniac. In this case I don't think we are good with AKo. Before I stick in 250BB I just want to have some more proof that he's going crazy in really big pots.

1- I think checking and betting are really, really close against a bad/erratic player. Not enough information for me there other than since he didn't bluff the turn, I can assume he might bet with air and check with showdown value, so I choose bet.

2- AKo in 2009 is the stone cold nuts preflop in any 6max NL game as I'm sure every single reg will attest to.

2- AKo in 2009 is the stone cold nuts preflop in any 6max NL game as I'm sure every single reg will attest to.

I know I'm probably being results oriented here, but this LAG did actually flat-call the 3-bet with a hand as strong as AKs. Doesn't that tell us something about his 4-betting range? Of course it's just one hand against one player, but I have to say I really think AKo is in terrible shape in a 4-bet pot for 250BB...

I know I'm probably being results oriented here, but this LAG did actually flat-call the 3-bet with a hand as strong as AKs. Doesn't that tell us something about his 4-betting range? Of course it's just one hand against one player, but I have to say I really think AKo is in terrible shape in a 4-bet pot for 250BB...

I am going to jump in here quick and say, AKo and 'terrible shape' can never be in the same sentence.

Another great episode imo, really like the series/format so far. Maybe I missed it but I didn't see any discussion regarding questions 29 and 30? Also have a question about a couple hands.

Question #4 - Against the maniac with A9s don't we want more money going in the pot when we are crushing his range? I also think hands like small pp and suited broadways are going to fold for 10bb where they will certainly call for 6bb which defeats our intention which was to isolate the maniac. The 6bb raise just seems kind of pointless, we're not getting maximum value and we're not isolating.

Question #7 - villain starts the hand with around 40bb, are we really looking to fold TP with stacks so shallow?

Question #21 - There was no option for calling which would have been my first choice. We have position, a decent hand, and the guy is a nit. We should be able to take away a fair amount of pots post flop and since his range is so tight we should be able to avoid making any huge mistakes. I think call>4bet>fold, where is my thinking getting mixed up here?

With the A9s on the K994 board you say that betting 10 into the 46.5 on the turn isn't balanced because it works as a cheap bluff but you can't do it for value, yet a $10 bet would set up a 66.5 pot with 58.5 stacks. Seems like we have no problem getting the money in on the river. If we do bet $22 then it's a $90 pot and he has ~$45 left which seems more awkward to me.

I am going to jump in here quick and say, AKo and 'terrible shape' can never be in the same sentence.

I disagree...

IMHE(xperience) at these limits, most players have a very small range to shove over a 4 bet especially 200BB deep.

If that type of player is flat calling a hand as strong as AKs we could assume that his shoving range would be KK+. Vs that range AKo is 18% which to me seems like "terrible shape". Even if you include QQ we still only have 31%.

About the JT hand : what about the call raise donk shove blank turn line now that Krantz is not under the influence of illicit substances anymore and has managed to read the stack sizes properly ? ;-)

Question #4 - Against the maniac with A9s don't we want more money going in the pot when we are crushing his range? I also think hands like small pp and suited broadways are going to fold for 10bb where they will certainly call for 6bb which defeats our intention which was to isolate the maniac. The 6bb raise just seems kind of pointless, we're not getting maximum value and we're not isolating.

The truth is that A9s is not "crushing." It may feel like it but against 95% of all Holdem hands, we are less than a 2:1 favorite. 6bb=10bb practically, as I said in the vid. No need to punish yourself is someone else has a real hand.

Question #7 - villain starts the hand with around 40bb, are we really looking to fold TP with stacks so shallow?

As you see in Krantz's above reply about the JTs hand, he blew the stack sizes, and getting our button floater All-in is the correct answer. Leave Krantz analysis for 100BB stacks.

Question #21 - There was no option for calling which would have been my first choice. We have position, a decent hand, and the guy is a nit. We should be able to take away a fair amount of pots post flop and since his range is so tight we should be able to avoid making any huge mistakes. I think call>4bet>fold, where is my thinking getting mixed up here?

You are right, I didnt leave call as an answer, sorry. Given how tight the BB was and he was raising out of the blinds, Krantz perfers a fold.

I now wwjtd again thanks to the edit on the stack sizes

I disagree...

IMHE(xperience) at these limits, most players have a very small range to shove over a 4 bet especially 200BB deep.

If that type of player is flat calling a hand as strong as AKs we could assume that his shoving range would be KK+. Vs that range AKo is 18% which to me seems like "terrible shape". Even if you include QQ we still only have 31%.

You have to include QQ and a non-0% for bluff shove or smaller PP and that's plenty.

About the JT hand : what about the call raise donk shove blank turn line now that Krantz is not under the influence of illicit substances anymore and has managed to read the stack sizes properly ?

We are OOP, just get it in on the flop.

Really? Did I misread stacks? Assume my analysis was for 100bb deep, if I misread stacks and he only has $23 left then shoving all in is the correct answer and we will rescore to reflect that... Sorry!

Yeah, he started with $40 . What a NIT!

Question #21 - There was no option for calling which would have been my first choice. We have position, a decent hand, and the guy is a nit. We should be able to take away a fair amount of pots post flop and since his range is so tight we should be able to avoid making any huge mistakes. I think call>4bet>fold, where is my thinking getting mixed up here?

Just an FYI, I am throwing the AQo button hand out of the scoring as there was no call option. It also leaves me with 28 questions, with 2 questions of 2pts for a score of 30 perfect.

Episode 4 scoring:

http://static.deucescracked.com/resources/WWJTD_Results_EP4.pdf

Leaderboard mash-up will come later this afternoon.

Episode 4 scoring: http://static.deucescracked.com/resources/WWJTD_Resutls_EP4.pdf

Leaderboard mash-up will come later this afternoon.

Correct link: http://static.deucescracked.com/resources/WWJTD_Results_EP4.pdf

In the A8o hand bvb: I think that out of the options cbetting $5 is better than $10 assuming that if he has some sort of broadway type hand he's continuing and if has a smaller pocket pair or undercards he's just folding. I suppose you could make the argument that he might c/r bluff a $5 bet, but I don't think many people would do that that often and it probably equals out against the times he has a boardway hand that doesn't fold. I think a 1/2 pot bet would be best, but that wasn't an option.

In the AK 4bet pot hand against the lag: checking back the 432 twotone flop seems better then betting since he probably never folds a pair and we've got the nut no pair. We can catch some bluffs and we've a lot of room to improve with our gutshot/overs/backdoor flush.

Question 11 (AK on 234 flop): I think we we cant fold if he raises our cbet (even against JJ we are getting almost the correct price and he could be bluffing with AQ etc)

Hey Krantz, please enlighten me about the AKo hand on 234 flop:
1) are we betting for value (cause i dont see many worse that calls) or are we semibluffing given the 10 outs?
2) if the board was 258, are we still betting? for value, as a bluff, as a stab to take it down when he checks?
3) when he leads/donks turn and we call isnt our hand a bluffcatcher? are the pot odds good for our 10 outs?
tx!

Im sure this is a very stupid question and the answer is very simple but ive watched all these videos now and am yet to find the damn quiz. Where the fudge is it!

At roughly the 20 minute mark with A9 on the K994 board:

"When he doesn't bet he's got something with showdown value, in which case you want to charge it or you want to induce some kind of check raise by betting small."

You discount betting $10, saying that $22 is "just enough, looks the same and is still pretty small compared to the pot." In my mind a 1/4 pot bet will induce much more than a half pot bet will, esp against a maniac.

As critikal noted above for his stack to pot ratio, if he calls the $10, the pot will be $66.5, and he will have $58.5 left on the river (Less than a pot sized bet).

By betting $22 the pot will be $90.5 and he will have $46.5 left (~1/2 pot sized bet).

If we can easily get him all in either way and on this dry of a board if he has a 9 we win either way, a King is probably coming along, and if we bet $10 we may induce more from his air, why wouln't we want to bet $10?

Versus a bad player why would we need to ever balance here?

It seems like $10 is at least a viable option, if not the best.

and please guys, next time, make a quick note about how the villan played his hand in every situation....this will add even more content to the material...tx

omg krantz

Im sure this is a very stupid question and the answer is very simple but ive watched all these videos now and am yet to find the damn quiz. Where the fudge is it!

Small stakes no limit subforum, check the stickies.

and please guys, next time, make a quick note about how the villan played his hand in every situation....this will add even more content to the material...tx

I actually did it in this quiz at first. But then when looking over the quiz deleted it. I dunno, I guess I can add extra questions and try it next time, in case something goes foul.

Overall leaderboard: http://www.joetall.com/WWJTD_Leaderboard_EP4_Final%20Grand%20Total.pdf

BTW, there are 8 weeks, none of the results are official for overall as I have to weigh out the score for one week and toss out the low for the overall.

First page ! :-)

BTW guys, no quiz this week, it's sweeps week. Quiz next week, video after that, when the new season begins. In the meantime, I'll mash-up the leaderboard, weigh out that week we had <26, and re-organize everything. Give me a few days, thanks.

Yay, up to Page 3 at least

Really good vid, keep em coming.

Also, it's nice to confirm I'm playing in the softest games on Earth (now we just need to define "a large sample").

Question #1:What happens when UTG ships? You are priced in and most likely crushed. I believe a smaller raise is in order here b/c UTG limp/shoves are something I see almost every session. Also, I feel if I'm going to get it in vs. the SB I'd rather see a flop and out play him from there. If I raise to $40, he calls and the flop comes KJ6 I'd be priced in and have to stack off vs. a maniac when I know I'm in bad shape. Also, I'm willing to raise less here and give up on the flop b/c I have poss. on this guy and my money is coming back soon enough.
Question #6: Checking back here will win more money b/c it gives him a chance to bluff the river into us. These types donk bet these flops with air b/c it wins the pot a fair amount of the time. If we didn't hit this board we are folding to his donk bet. If we bet anything here he will fold most of his range. If he has a 9, K or some other pocket pair he'll over value we are going to get his stack anyway. I think we need to discount us having a 9 in his mind so he can make a mistake and bluff.(I wrote the above before I saw the results) There is no reason the balance anything against this guy ever.(and this after)

Question #1:What happens when UTG ships? You are priced in and most likely crushed. I believe a smaller raise is in order here b/c UTG limp/shoves are something I see almost every session. Also, I feel if I'm going to get it in vs. the SB I'd rather see a flop and out play him from there. If I raise to $40, he calls and the flop comes KJ6 I'd be priced in and have to stack off vs. a maniac when I know I'm in bad shape. Also, I'm willing to raise less here and give up on the flop b/c I have poss. on this guy and my money is coming back soon enough.
Question #6: Checking back here will win more money b/c it gives him a chance to bluff the river into us. These types donk bet these flops with air b/c it wins the pot a fair amount of the time. If we didn't hit this board we are folding to his donk bet. If we bet anything here he will fold most of his range. If he has a 9, K or some other pocket pair he'll over value we are going to get his stack anyway. I think we need to discount us having a 9 in his mind so he can make a mistake and bluff.(I wrote the above before I saw the results) There is no reason the balance anything against this guy ever.(and this after)

Please leave a time-stamp or better yet, Watch this short video, and leave a time link!

That will be much easier for the coaches to find the hand and answer your questions, thanks.

Time Link to 00:19:12

Question #6: Checking back here will win more money b/c it gives him a chance to bluff the river into us. These types donk bet these flops with air b/c it wins the pot a fair amount of the time. If we didn't hit this board we are folding to his donk bet. If we bet anything here he will fold most of his range. If he has a 9, K or some other pocket pair he'll over value we are going to get his stack anyway. I think we need to discount us having a 9 in his mind so he can make a mistake and bluff.(I wrote the above before I saw the results) There is no reason the balance anything against this guy ever.(and this after)

Time Link to 00:07:24

Question #1:What happens when UTG ships? You are priced in and most likely crushed. I believe a smaller raise is in order here b/c UTG limp/shoves are something I see almost every session. Also, I feel if I'm going to get it in vs. the SB I'd rather see a flop and out play him from there. If I raise to $40, he calls and the flop comes KJ6 I'd be priced in and have to stack off vs. a maniac when I know I'm in bad shape. Also, I'm willing to raise less here and give up on the flop b/c I have poss. on this guy and my money is coming back soon enough.

Minute 36, I quote
»And this is like — ah one of thoses spots I’m like — wow I got this like pretty wild flop like ahm and he checks to me. I’m like wow like he has got a pocket pair. And I am going to win like a good percentage of the time.«

7 likes in 49 words = 1 like in every seventh word.

The other thing than annoys me: Every time we hear: An immediately when I raised/checked (whatever) I knew I did a mistake. After hearing this four times in a row, I just don’t believe it anymore.

Minute 36, I quote
»And this is like — ah one of thoses spots I’m like — wow I got this like pretty wild flop like ahm and he checks to me. I’m like wow like he has got a pocket pair. And I am going to win like a good percentage of the time.«

7 likes in 49 words = 1 like in every seventh word.

The other thing than annoys me: Every time we hear: An immediately when I raised/checked (whatever) I knew I did a mistake. After hearing this four times in a row, I just don’t believe it anymore.

Thanks for the feed back, I have worked on my 'likes' and 'umms' since the 2 years that this video was published. However, I am quite aware of my mistakes when I make them having over a decade of poker experience as a semi-pro to professional.

Thank you,
Joe