Could you talk a little bit about flop/turn overbetting? How is it useful, when is it useful and so forth?
Vanessa and DJ return for another episode of Remix. This week's topics include what happens when we get to the river. Bluffing, over-betting, and overbet bluffing.
DJ Sensei and Vanessa Selbst are back with more Unconventional Wisdom. For the anniversary of DeucesCracked.com they revisit some of the topics of the previous series like 3-betting but with deeper discussions and theories. They also discuss the change in the games from a year ago.
Premium Subscribers can download high-quality, DRM-free videos in multiple formats.
Could you talk a little bit about flop/turn overbetting? How is it useful, when is it useful and so forth?
the AJ rerAI riverbluff seems VERY marginal, because he can have all the hands you are trying to represent himself - every set on the board is in his range, QT for the straight is in his range, maybe AK, if he decided to barrel you off of a small pocket pair (and although he probably should do you really think he'd fold AK (or AA which he can also have, and is basically the same in terms of hand strength in this spot) here?)
but really great series - one of the best and most insightful thoughts on the curent game
Hello,
first I want to say: I really like the videos! I looked up your stats and I it found it quite strange that Vanessa is teaching when she is down about 30 k. Can you say something to that fact, please?
lol - thats one heck of a first post, bill. Where is the popcorn icon?
solid vid imo
Hello,
first I want to say: I really like the videos! I looked up your stats and I it found it quite strange that Vanessa is teaching when she is down about 30 k. Can you say something to that fact, please?
If people who made videos stopped making vids when they were running bad nobody would ever make any videos. Ever.
Hello,
first I want to say: I really like the videos! I looked up your stats and I it found it quite strange that Vanessa is teaching when she is down about 30 k. Can you say something to that fact, please?
lol, i've been over this so many times. it's over 11k hands and the losses are mostly from very few hands of high stakes. i assure you i've played more than 11k hands of online poker in my life, so there's probably a few things missing, no?
just one more indication you shouldn't always believe everything you see ![]()
Could you talk a little bit about flop/turn overbetting? How is it useful, when is it useful and so forth?
I think it's as useful as you make it - this episode just illustrates spots where you can add it into your game. It's something ideally you would be comfortable doing if the spot dictates it, but it isn't anything I do with any "regular" frequency. Just another tool in the toolbox, which always gives you more options.
Hello,
first I want to say: I really like the videos! I looked up your stats and I it found it quite strange that Vanessa is teaching when she is down about 30 k. Can you say something to that fact, please?
So the 60/2 is a poker god cause hes up 2 buyings amright, lol.
i assure you i've played more than 11k hands of online poker in my life, so there's probably a few things missing, no?
So classy and diplomatic. Fslex, if I were you I would have just shown him the bracelet, and told him to GTFO ![]()
Also known as "I'm rich... Bitch".
But Vanessa, please correct me if I'm wrong, but you mostly just overbet the river. Overbetting the river is sort of a "standard" thing for people to have in their toolbox, but overbets on the flop/turn are viewed different. Have you experimented with this, and what reactions have you gotten?
That's kind of what I'm looking for.
Hey!
I want to make sure that you know I did not want to insult you!
It was just a question... ![]()
Also known as "I'm rich... Bitch".
But Vanessa, please correct me if I'm wrong, but you mostly just overbet the river. Overbetting the river is sort of a "standard" thing for people to have in their toolbox, but overbets on the flop/turn are viewed different. Have you experimented with this, and what reactions have you gotten?
That's kind of what I'm looking for.
I don't think river overbets are standard by any means (a big part of the reason we have so many of them in this episode).
Earlier street overbets are not something I've really explored much, mainly because theres less information available and I think they're rarely the best option, whether for value or as a bluff.
I did the math on the j839K board for the bluff. From just looking at the math, it'd be a lot better if the river wasn't a king (he probably doesn't double barrel like 55). You're risking 540 to win 400 so it has to work 540/940=57%. I think the main problem is he bet the turn, so he has to have barreled to have the king, like AK/KQ and he probably doesn't do that 100% of the time. If his river bet range={KQ,AK,AA,bluff,set,two pair), then maybe you have 50%(AK+KQ) so 24*.5=12 combos, and 3x2=6 combos of aces, then KJ, J9, sets, so 3x2=6, 6 of J9, 1 JJ, 3x2=6 of 88 33 99 KK=24 combos.
so value range is:
AK/KQ=12->24 combos
AA=6 combos
2 pair+seta=12+1+24=37 combos
from their value range 30/67=45% (bet 100% with KQ/AK)
from their value range 18/55=33%
breakeven from total range 50/87=57.4%
valuebet 67 combos bluff 20 combos is 20/87=23%
valuebet 55 combos bluff 32 combos is 32/87=37%
calling you were getting 166 to win 234+166, or 166:400, have to be good 166/566=29%. Wow that's pretty thin (unless my math is wrong).
I like the spots and its definitely a different kind of series. I just don't picture hands like these being a very common occurrence. Like maybe these hands represent 10 hands in a 100k sample. Maybe that's untrue tho?
I don't think river overbets are standard by any means (a big part of the reason we have so many of them in this episode).
Earlier street overbets are not something I've really explored much, mainly because theres less information available and I think they're rarely the best option, whether for value or as a bluff.
Inspired by the omakase episode with krantz,im trying out some flop/turn overbet things,and though im still spewing too much with it,i think there is some really cool stuff you do can on earlier streets as well. I also read a blog ( i think it was from jsnipes) where he talked about experimenting with flop/turn overbets with somewhat marginal hands in spots where he is sure to have the best hand almost always to induce some weird/confused action from draws/weaker madehands.So i think there is a lot of stuff still not explored.take care
Like maybe these hands represent 10 hands in a 100k sample. Maybe that's untrue tho?
The way we like to play, these are more like 10/1000 ![]()
great video guys. 1 question fron the very first hand . you both said that you would muck 55 to a standard opening bet . i must be a fish cus i call there always can you guys explain please?
great video guys. 1 question fron the very first hand . you both said that you would muck 55 to a standard opening bet . i must be a fish cus i call there always can you guys explain please?
I'd muck it out of position most of the time. In position I'd call most of the time.
The Unconventional wisdow serie is the best serie Iv ever seen!
Brilliant job!
I'd muck it out of position most of the time. In position I'd call most of the time.
DJ Sensei or Venessa,
In regards to the 55 hand in the SB. What other marginal hands would you be folding from this position and from the BB? You mention in the video that against a weaker player you would call sometimes. I understand what a weaker player is defined as but would you make these same folds playing 50NL and 100NL or are these hands more or less valuable in lower stakes games? I'm assuming that I spew money in this spot. Thanks a lot and great video.
DDF
So classy and diplomatic. Fslex, if I were you I would have just shown him the bracelet, and told him to GTFO
+1
Or, just play him HU for his entire bankroll. Im sure he will accept
Time Link to 00:10:54
I think for sure great spot to CR unless villain is really really good at reading hands.
Home → Poker Videos → Remix → Episode Six