Poker Video: Limit Hold'Em by BigBadBabar (High Stakes)

Yay BBB video!

Ohh yeah

Excellent video guys.
Enjoyed listening to your insight.
Video length and content you covered was top notch.

Awesome vid! Lots of great spots with great discussion/humo[u]r (I'm Canadian, eh).

I've been thinking a lot about the QTo hand at ~49 min. and might do some analysis. The problem is: every time I go to analyze the situation, a secondary or tertiary question or subquestion comes up. Even just thinking about playing both players' seats using our own "default" strategy is very interesting...

Awesome vid! Lots of great spots with great discussion/humo[u]r (I'm Canadian, eh).

I've been thinking a lot about the QTo hand at ~49 min. and might do some analysis. The problem is: every time I go to analyze the situation, a secondary or tertiary question or subquestion comes up. Even just thinking about playing both players' seats using our own "default" strategy is very interesting...

yeah, jaybeastie and i keep talking about it on skype, lol

Good work guys! Have only watched half so far.

(~19min)LP limps, Jay raise J9, only the fish calls.

Flop: T84 ; X,B,C

Turn: 4s ; X, ?

You both agree on firing second barell. Im not sure. My problem is that even LP tighten up on monotone boards. So when he peels the flop I think he's folding a really small part of his range on the turn. If he has any pair or diamond he's obv not folding. If he peeled an A I don't think he folds on that card.

K10o hand, isnt this an easy coldcall with a bad player in the pot? It is for me, either that or 3betting, but calling kind of saves us every time we coldcall with small/medium PPs and suited connectors. K10 has decent top pair value and you can also make str8s ldo.
With the AJ hand Jay tried to CR river, im not sure i hate it that much. The only aces i would have on the turn would be A10/AQ and possibly any suited ace peeling the flop CR for backdoor flushdraws, and all of those aces i would be calling and not raising on the turn and betting the river if checked to. Is this too predictable you think?

Q10 hand on K77 twotone board, turn bet? I hate it. Like you said what do you want him to fold on the turn? This really isnt really all that peelfriendly of a board and alot of not great players will wait for the turn with any K/7 here and you lose one bet. I actually love the idea of just giving up after you get called from the flop, check the turn and cry and call if we pair up on the river imo.

I think that the QT hand is a really good example of a specific board that I almost never fire the 2nd barrel on anymore. Its the Kxx dry board. In this case, I think K77 (albeit with a flush draw) qualifies as pretty dry. If I remember right, the guy had pretty tight/TAGGY stats. What sort of range can we put him on when he check/calls that flop? There just isn't enough air in his range to make a 2nd bet profitable. I think checking behind and calling (or betting if checked to) any Q or T river is fine, especially if its not a diamond. I think he has enough Ace high and small pocket pair hands that you can bet for value.

I call the KTo hand, but I think its very close. K9 I fold, so KT can't be that far from a fold. If its 2/3 chip structure instead of a 1/2 structure I think it is an easy call. Suited it is an easy call. We have pretty good relative position on the PFR and the coldcalling fish, since we can c/r and trap the fish for 2 bets on the flop when have good equity. I think that makes it a close call.

I'm not sure if it was discussed specifically (i was multitasking at this point in the vid), but when JayBeastie defended his BB against nWooch with 7h9h and c/r J84 board, the 5 is a great card to barrel off on (since nWooch can read hands) since it should improve a decent chunk of our c/r semibluff range. I just wanted to reiterate that point.

The 99 hand that Jay open caps preflop is interesting. BBB seems to argue for a raise after Jay folds, but I think a raise is a bit too aggro. Certainly, the pot is big enough that we want to see the turn with a 2 outer plus a bunch of backdoor straight cards. However, we are never ahead and I don't think our equity is high enough to warrant raising for a free card here, although I will agree that you do get a free card a decent amount of time. It just sucks when we pick up a 4 outer on the turn and the fish donks into us again when we could have just called the flop and not charged ourselves to draw.

Good work guys! Have only watched half so far.

(~19min)LP limps, Jay raise J9, only the fish calls.

Flop: T84 ; X,B,C

Turn: 4s ; X, ?

You both agree on firing second barell. Im not sure. My problem is that even LP tighten up on monotone boards. So when he peels the flop I think he's folding a really small part of his range on the turn. If he has any pair or diamond he's obv not folding. If he peeled an A I don't think he folds on that card.

hi sushi, i think that's a really good point. for me it was kind of a weird spot, because we do have an oesd, but we're also happy if he folds basically anything, since we also have jack high on a scary board. but the guy has been loose and not really shown a propensity to fold, and this turn card is a total brick. so, i think it's a lot closer than my original assessment of 'bet.' also, i kind of want to consider folding to the turn c/r upon seeing it a second time...what do you think?

K10o hand, isnt this an easy coldcall with a bad player in the pot? It is for me, either that or 3betting, but calling kind of saves us every time we coldcall with small/medium PPs and suited connectors. K10 has decent top pair value and you can also make str8s ldo.
With the AJ hand Jay tried to CR river, im not sure i hate it that much. The only aces i would have on the turn would be A10/AQ and possibly any suited ace peeling the flop CR for backdoor flushdraws, and all of those aces i would be calling and not raising on the turn and betting the river if checked to. Is this too predictable you think?

Q10 hand on K77 twotone board, turn bet? I hate it. Like you said what do you want him to fold on the turn? This really isnt really all that peelfriendly of a board and alot of not great players will wait for the turn with any K/7 here and you lose one bet. I actually love the idea of just giving up after you get called from the flop, check the turn and cry and call if we pair up on the river imo.

KT hand yea, a few people have mentioned that one to me, and I think it's super close also - i think calling isn't bad at all. our hand is decent and we want to get in there with at least one bad player. i have no problems with that at all. i'm always a bit leery in those spots of these kind of easily dominated hands where we like flop tp, everyone goes bananas on the flop, and now we've built a huge pot that it's hard to fold in. but i like your comments about kind of balancing our suited connector and small pocketpair coldcalling range here.

the AJ hand, a lot of people have brought up to me in regards to your comments about what aces he can hold and is it predictable - if i were in nwooch's spot here with a good ace on the turn, like AT, AQ, maybe even some suited aces, i'd certainly consider raising it a good deal of the time on the turn - for value and knowing that jaybeastie will have to call often anyway with a draw, and maybe even with a pair, thinking we might be rebluffing some small percentage of the time (but imo often jay will have like a pair+draw at this point and have to continue anyway). as the hand played out, i'm still pretty convinced that when we bet turn and he calls, that when we bet river his calling range is clearly wider than his betting range if we check to him. i think he'd be calling most pairs on the river surely, as bluffcatchers, but if he had a small one he wouldn't be very likely to bet it if checked to. i also think he doesn't pay off a c/r a huge amount of the time, but some people have disputed that with me. but basically i think the range he has that calls is big, that bets is medium, and that bets and calls a checkraise is fairly small. without actually doing the math, i think that probably our best EV spot will be betting. i think also rarely he will wait til the river to raise a good ace and then we can 3bet? perhaps that is wishful thinking.

anyway i'm not good with EV calcs, but if someone can help me out with that situation i think it could be really cool.

QT hand, yea, we're both proud of ourselves for 'learning' this one on the spot - you can see in the video we were both like 'lolbet,' then we were like 'hmmm,' then we were like 'lolcheck.' dosxx mentions it later in this thread, but it's just one of those really forbidding board textures where your opponent's range narrows a ton when he c/c on it. i agree with bet flop, ck behind turn, fold almost all rivers.

I think that the QT hand is a really good example of a specific board that I almost never fire the 2nd barrel on anymore. Its the Kxx dry board. In this case, I think K77 (albeit with a flush draw) qualifies as pretty dry. If I remember right, the guy had pretty tight/TAGGY stats. What sort of range can we put him on when he check/calls that flop? There just isn't enough air in his range to make a 2nd bet profitable. I think checking behind and calling (or betting if checked to) any Q or T river is fine, especially if its not a diamond. I think he has enough Ace high and small pocket pair hands that you can bet for value.

I call the KTo hand, but I think its very close. K9 I fold, so KT can't be that far from a fold. If its 2/3 chip structure instead of a 1/2 structure I think it is an easy call. Suited it is an easy call. We have pretty good relative position on the PFR and the coldcalling fish, since we can c/r and trap the fish for 2 bets on the flop when have good equity. I think that makes it a close call.

I'm not sure if it was discussed specifically (i was multitasking at this point in the vid), but when JayBeastie defended his BB against nWooch with 7h9h and c/r J84 board, the 5 is a great card to barrel off on (since nWooch can read hands) since it should improve a decent chunk of our c/r semibluff range. I just wanted to reiterate that point.

The 99 hand that Jay open caps preflop is interesting. BBB seems to argue for a raise after Jay folds, but I think a raise is a bit too aggro. Certainly, the pot is big enough that we want to see the turn with a 2 outer plus a bunch of backdoor straight cards. However, we are never ahead and I don't think our equity is high enough to warrant raising for a free card here, although I will agree that you do get a free card a decent amount of time. It just sucks when we pick up a 4 outer on the turn and the fish donks into us again when we could have just called the flop and not charged ourselves to draw.

yea, agree on the QT hand definitely.

KT hand, i agree with your comments as well. certainly suited is an easy call, and a different chip structure would also affect things. K9o i would snapfold here. it's kind of like the AJo hand somewhere in here on the right table, where it goes raise, 3bet, someone calls 3 cold, and it's back to us in the BB - funny how AQ would be a cap here but with AJ we waffled and folded

79hh, i absolutely agree, i think i said somewhere in there that there are certain turn river combos like 6/5, 7/6, etc, that would appear much more scary to our opponent than obviously if it came brick, brick.

99 hand yea, getting double donked if we pulled the flop raise here would be pretty lol. maybe we can filter for how often that guy donks the turn in the following scenario: we coldcal pf and raise the ace high flop i keep just thinking back to that old school dictat of 'the pot is huge, do whatever (within reason) you can to win it or increase your chances of winning it.' if it were 4-5 way on the flop i agree with call, since a raise isn't super likely to clear everyone else out. but with just the one guy in behind us (and he was the original pfr, right? so i think his range is wide-ish and he might be more likely to fold), it only costs us one more small bet (into a pot laden with them already) to really put some pressure on him - knocking out any bigger pair or even two overcards is a great victory for us, plus some of the time (maybe half?) we get a free card on the turn. i think it has to be close.

Hi guys,

great vid.

On the A9o hand with the board of 6A6T and the player donking into you. As a default, wouldn't it be better to just call down here or possibly wait to raise the river. The villian may just choose to fold right away if he is bluffing. If he does have us beat he could 3b. If he is donking a draw he probably will bluff it on the river UIP but will just check fold the river if we choose to raise the turn. Therefore, we get the same amount of bets either way but without the risk of getting 3b if we just call. This as well as the fact that our kicker no longer plays, makes me want to check here.

Throw in some reads such as villian will donk a draw but give up on river then I think raising is definately good.

if we are capable of folding to a 3b I kind of like raising the river after calling the turn. We get max value from his bluffs and from any worse hands he is betting and is probably less likely to be 3 bet bluffing us on the river.

Good work guys! Have only watched half so far.

(~19min)LP limps, Jay raise J9, only the fish calls.

Flop: T84 ; X,B,C

Turn: 4s ; X, ?

You both agree on firing second barell. Im not sure. My problem is that even LP tighten up on monotone boards. So when he peels the flop I think he's folding a really small part of his range on the turn. If he has any pair or diamond he's obv not folding. If he peeled an A I don't think he folds on that card.

Interesting spot indeed. I basically fire the 2nd barell to make him fold on the river. That may sound odd, but imo there are many hands like Q 7. I am basically targeting A high, K high and Q high hands with a diamond, or even not necessarily with a diamond like KQ. I was a little surprised to get cr on the turn here and dont expect to encounter this too often tbh. So what do you do here, check behind turn and what is your plan for different river cards then? If you get checked to again on say a 2 river, would you bet?

For me it really comes down to the fact that I have J high but still got some amount of equity on the turn, so I really want foldequity even if its at the river. As I said I dont expect to get raised there pretty often and this becomes a very ugly spot if I do, I could even think about folding, but then again zomg folding an OESD in a biggish pot on a brick turn.. meh.

There was much discussion regarding preflop play in this video. I was wondering how playing in a 2/4 game compared to playing in the 10/20 game would change your decisions. I am referring to Rake considerations.

For example: Would you still iso 3b with hands like K7s or would you need a stronger holding? Or does it not make a difference.

How about the hands like KTo in SB. Would you need better hands to CC here?

or 3b with 55 after a limper and raisor.

K10o hand, isnt this an easy coldcall with a bad player in the pot? It is for me, either that or 3betting, but calling kind of saves us every time we coldcall with small/medium PPs and suited connectors. K10 has decent top pair value and you can also make str8s ldo.

definitely agree now, I havent had coldcalling preflop really incorporated in my game at the time I played this game, but especially at the higher stakes it gains value bc the rake is lower and of course with a 2/3 blindstructure at 15/30 its a must to do so.

With the AJ hand Jay tried to CR river, im not sure i hate it that much. The only aces i would have on the turn would be A10/AQ and possibly any suited ace peeling the flop CR for backdoor flushdraws, and all of those aces i would be calling and not raising on the turn and betting the river if checked to. Is this too predictable you think?

Well I thought about it quickly as I played the hand and it made sense for me at that point, partly because I was really convinced that nWooch would bet QQ on the river there if checked to, but now I really prefer the straight forward bet tbh.

Q10 hand on K77 twotone board, turn bet? I hate it. Like you said what do you want him to fold on the turn? This really isnt really all that peelfriendly of a board and alot of not great players will wait for the turn with any K/7 here and you lose one bet. I actually love the idea of just giving up after you get called from the flop, check the turn and cry and call if we pair up on the river imo.

This was the biggest thing I got out of the whole video, I love just giving up on the turn there now too, but didnt give a thought to it as I played the hand. Leak fixed I hope

I'm not sure if it was discussed specifically (i was multitasking at this point in the vid), but when JayBeastie defended his BB against nWooch with 7h9h and c/r J84 board, the 5 is a great card to barrel off on (since nWooch can read hands) since it should improve a decent chunk of our c/r semibluff range. I just wanted to reiterate that point.

agree

The 99 hand that Jay open caps preflop is interesting. BBB seems to argue for a raise after Jay folds, but I think a raise is a bit too aggro. Certainly, the pot is big enough that we want to see the turn with a 2 outer plus a bunch of backdoor straight cards. However, we are never ahead and I don't think our equity is high enough to warrant raising for a free card here, although I will agree that you do get a free card a decent amount of time. It just sucks when we pick up a 4 outer on the turn and the fish donks into us again when we could have just called the flop and not charged ourselves to draw.

I dont really like a raise there too. BBBs answer is fine here, and if you raised 99 here and not only hands like AJ this would certainly add to balance here too, not that it would count to the fish, but to observant other players.
But I think it is really likely that the fish donks again on the turn and the other player could have anything at this point. And as you stated we are almost never good, although I would stress the almost here, as there is a certain possibility.

Hi guys,

great vid.

On the A9o hand with the board of 6A6T and the player donking into you. As a default, wouldn't it be better to just call down here or possibly wait to raise the river. The villian may just choose to fold right away if he is bluffing. If he does have us beat he could 3b. If he is donking a draw he probably will bluff it on the river UIP but will just check fold the river if we choose to raise the turn. Therefore, we get the same amount of bets either way but without the risk of getting 3b if we just call. This as well as the fact that our kicker no longer plays, makes me want to check here.

Throw in some reads such as villian will donk a draw but give up on river then I think raising is definately good.

if we are capable of folding to a 3b I kind of like raising the river after calling the turn. We get max value from his bluffs and from any worse hands he is betting and is probably less likely to be 3 bet bluffing us on the river.

Good point motienko, I think I was kind of fed up with the LP owning me in every hand

The problem with your last point is, that I would not be capable of folding the river to a 3-bet against this particular player tbh, just because he seems bad and obviously I wasnt able to get a good read on him.

Nevertheless I like the idea of waiting to raise the river in this case, just to let him bluff once again if he is bluffing.

There was much discussion regarding preflop play in this video. I was wondering how playing in a 2/4 game compared to playing in the 10/20 game would change your decisions. I am referring to Rake considerations.

For example: Would you still iso 3b with hands like K7s or would you need a stronger holding? Or does it not make a difference.

How about the hands like KTo in SB. Would you need better hands to CC here?

or 3b with 55 after a limper and raisor.

Yes, I would definitely adjust my range to a higher rakestructure like 2/4, the KTo hand is a fold for me there, I wouldnt 3-bet 55 after a limper and raiser, more like 77, but obv depending on opponents and positions. K7s I would still isoraise I think, but you might be looking to tighten up your range a tad bit, say iso with K8s+, just go up a kicker per hand. Hope that helped, if you got any other specific questions feel free to post/ask