Lime Slicer Episode Three

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Lime Slicer Episode Three

Lime Slicer -- Part 2 of 3: whitelime and KRANTZ continue to explore the differences between 5/10 and 10/20 and develop detailed reads on their regular opponents over a long session at 2000nl. Winner of the challenge is whoever wins the most money over 500 hands and neither is allowed to monitor how the other player is doing.

tags: whitlelime pr1nnyraid krantz lime slicer 10/20 nl challenge shorthanded

This Series: whitelime vs. pr1nnyraid

Clash of the titans. whitelime and KRANTZ battle each other in a series of high-stakes, daring challenges designed to explore what it takes to move beyond solid winning TAG play into the mindset of an elite No-Limit player. Immerse yourself deep within their thought processes in whitelime's half, "Stuffing the Penguin," or KRANTZ's, "Lime Slicer."

Previous Video: Intro to EP 2-4 | Next Video: Stuffing the Penguin Episode Three

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Comments for Lime Slicer Episode Three

maco144
Deuce High
26 posts
Joined 01/08

Spitting out knowledge like always and you brought back the funny. Solid episode.

In the 3b/4b wars going on with CaK you said youd felt 88. Do you have any cutoff range for PPs there vs him which you wouldnt felt pf? I assume any PP there you 3bet it is generally with the intention of calling a 4bet as there doesnt seem to be a point to 3bet the lowest pairs and then fold when youre in position.

Posted Jan 18, 2008 6:25am

alexos
Deuce High
3 posts
Joined 01/08

dude u r one sick kid...ALL INN ALL INNNN!!!

nice vid

Posted Jan 18, 2008 7:27am

Butlerism
Deuce High
1 post
Joined 01/08

Nice vid, also follows up on a fundamental rule in life where for banter, you should always say Im all in, with a dodgy chinese accent.

Posted Jan 18, 2008 10:26am

poker12
Deuce High
51 posts
Joined 01/08

Am I retarted or did I miss this vid...it says released on 1/12...so does that mean episode 4 comes out on 1/19?

Posted Jan 18, 2008 9:11pm

poker12
Deuce High
51 posts
Joined 01/08

btw i was dying laughing at the "i'm awww innnn" story

Posted Jan 18, 2008 10:39pm

DeathDonkey
Founder
Quad Deuces
2135 posts
Joined 11/06

Am I retarted or did I miss this vid...it says released on 1/12...so does that mean episode 4 comes out on 1/19?



Right now our system uses the "creation' date rather than the "published" date for videos, which is why they appear to be older than they are (because they were made or uploaded to our administrative side of the site before being "published' for public viewing). Working on getting it to use the right dates to alleviate the confusion...

-DeathDonkey

Posted Jan 18, 2008 11:08pm

Scofield
Deuce High
23 posts
Joined 01/08

When watching episode 2 by Krantz, the clip stopped at something like 40mins

This one is stopping at 14:02 or so :/

anyone else have this problem?

Posted Jan 20, 2008 9:25pm

Entity
Founder
Quad Deuces
2802 posts
Joined 11/06

When watching episode 2 by Krantz, the clip stopped at something like 40mins

This one is stopping at 14:02 or so :/

anyone else have this problem?



I've watched the entire thing in Flash and in the downloadable format on a few PCs. What browser are you using, what type of computer do you have and what type of file are you watching (WMV/Streaming/MP4)?

thanks,
Rob

Posted Jan 20, 2008 11:53pm

Scofield
Deuce High
23 posts
Joined 01/08

-explorer
-streaming
-a regular HP laptop

I gave the video some other tries and now it stopped at 6 mins or so...? I'll give it a try in firefox to see if that fixes the problem.

Posted Jan 21, 2008 2:06am

Scofield
Deuce High
23 posts
Joined 01/08

tried it w/ firefox and it made me download a newer version of some flash program .. so it's working perfect now

Posted Jan 21, 2008 2:21am

BOBSAPP
Deuce High
1 post
Joined 01/08

I think the A8s is crazy nice, made me smile! =) Never seen anything like that over at CR.

Krantz is a fkn NINJA!

Posted Jan 21, 2008 8:12am

jk3a
Deuce High
61 posts
Joined 01/08

I have a question for krantz about the A8s hand he played against haj. It was the hand in which he raised the turn after checking behind the Axx flop. You said you were charging his draws and setting your own price for showdown which is a sick play btw, very nice. However, you said something like you didn't feel like you could "induce a river bluff by just calling the turn." Can you elaborate on that please? In my mind it seems perfectly reasonable for him to 2 barrel the turn+river but I obviously could be wrong.

Posted Jan 22, 2008 6:41am

tubasteve
Quad Deuces
1995 posts
Joined 11/07

Watching now, I like your point about light 3-betting in the beginning. Even at SSNL, people just assume if you play 22/18 preflop that you're 3-betting light, and recently I've been tightening up a lot OOP and still getting paid. It's pretty sick. :)

Posted Jan 23, 2008 10:59pm

schaffem111
Set of Deuces
269 posts
Joined 01/08

20 double cheeseburgers - "Those things are good". F'kin priceless.

Posted Jan 24, 2008 1:29am

Syous
Deuce High
1 post
Joined 01/08

question for krantz. on the Q10dd hand against the 9.0/9.0/xx or wtvr it was, you said his check on the Ace turn probably meant you were behind. what would you lead you to think you were ahead? if he bet?

Posted Jan 28, 2008 5:06am

KRANTZ
Founder
Quad Deuces
1196 posts
Joined 07/07

question for krantz. on the Q10dd hand against the 9.0/9.0/xx or wtvr it was, you said his check on the Ace turn probably meant you were behind. what would you lead you to think you were ahead? if he bet?



I just meant that against a tight player like that... it's very likely that that type of player would be checking the turn with a hand like AJ-AK, JJ-KK rather than betting. But they might use that as a bluff card if they had QJ or QK... so if they bet again I might be inclined to call one more time.

Posted Jan 30, 2008 9:37pm

KRANTZ
Founder
Quad Deuces
1196 posts
Joined 07/07

I have a question for krantz about the A8s hand he played against haj. It was the hand in which he raised the turn after checking behind the Axx flop. You said you were charging his draws and setting your own price for showdown which is a sick play btw, very nice. However, you said something like you didn't feel like you could "induce a river bluff by just calling the turn." Can you elaborate on that please? In my mind it seems perfectly reasonable for him to 2 barrel the turn+river but I obviously could be wrong.



Passive players just aren't likely to fire a multi-street bluff like that, and this guy was real passive... Also, even against TAGs, if I don't have to fear a 3-bet I might make that play there... since my hand is defined as something like QQ or a weak ace and lotsa TAGs just won't think they can make me fold those given the board texture.

Posted Jan 30, 2008 10:49pm

vadskajagha
Deuce High
28 posts
Joined 01/08

Where the friggin frick are todays episodes, been lurking the video section for hours :(:(:(:(:(

Posted Jan 31, 2008 7:31pm

sonic
Deuce High
2 posts
Joined 01/08

Question for krantz. The 67h hand against Crush and Kill about 42 mins in. The board is 23634, no flush possible.

You automatically dismissed any chance he was bluffing on the river. Why is that?

It seems he would have c-bet almost his entire range on the flop, and then probably checked a lot of his no pair range on the turn, given 3 is not a great bluff card for him. I suppose he could have checked some of his higher pairs as well, looking to chk-raise.

When he bet on the river, isn't there a lot of air in his range? Or do you think he would give up with all of his 9Ts, KQo type hands?

Or is it because you checked the turn behind, on a decent card for you bluff on, so he can't put you on a float on the flop? Just wanted to understand your thinking process.

I would think given that the history you and him have had, top pair there on a nothing board would be a decent hand to get some excess action.

Posted Feb 1, 2008 6:49am

jgunnip
Deuce High
91 posts
Joined 01/08

Another solid vid Krantz. Like tubasteve said the talk about 3 betting oop at small stackes was total gin.

The discussion about just flatting preflop against CaK when you guys were 150bb deep really hit home as something I need to think about more and try to recognize those spots at the table while I play.

Posted Feb 1, 2008 4:58pm

PygmyHero
Quad Deuces
1140 posts
Joined 08/07

Hi KRANTZ, I'm a LHE player so I have what may be an incredibly simplistic question about a series of hands you play against Crush and Kill. At the time these hands took place you had already noted C&K's tendency to make massive overbet shoves PF (and announce his action in a nasaly Asian voice).

At 30:44 C&K opens from the CO. You have 88 OTB and 3-bet, saying you're willing to get it all in if C&K pushes. Before the hand begins you're $2471 deep and C&K has you covered.

Then at 33:53 you have 99 in the CO. You mention that if C&K opens from the HJ you will just flat call and are NOT willing to get it all in. Before the hand starts you're $2963 deep and C&K again has you covered.

I'm not totally sure what the difference between these two hands is. Is the fact that you're 25 big blinds deeper in the second hand the overriding consideration here? Or is it a positional thing? That is, in the first hand he could be opening light from the CO and could interpret your BTN raise as a re-steal. But in the second his range should be stronger in the HJ and he may more accurately gauge the strength of your hand since you don't have absolute last position.

I realize this may be super obvious to a NL player, but I was confused by it and was hoping you could explain. I like watching non-LHE videos to change it up every now and then and because I still think there are things I can learn from the other videos and apply to the games I play. At the least, I find your videos entertaining, so thanks for that.

Posted Mar 7, 2008 6:17pm

Sugar Nut
Pair of Deuces
100 posts
Joined 03/08

I'm watching right now and paused the video to ask pretty much the exact same question PygmyHero has asked before me. I hope this thread gets checked every now and then by you, KRANTZ. I know, the release date was ~2 months ago but it would still be great to have ongoing discussion about specific hands/concepts or whatever also in older videos.

I'd highly appreciate if every producer would check on the threads to their videos like once every two weeks (should be enough for older vids) and respond to ppl who have just now subscribed to this (again) great site.

Thx,

Sugar Nut

Posted Mar 17, 2008 10:51am

Entity
Founder
Quad Deuces
2802 posts
Joined 11/06

I'm watching right now and paused the video to ask pretty much the exact same question PygmyHero has asked before me. I hope this thread gets checked every now and then by you, KRANTZ. I know, the release date was ~2 months ago but it would still be great to have ongoing discussion about specific hands/concepts or whatever also in older videos.

I'd highly appreciate if every producer would check on the threads to their videos like once every two weeks (should be enough for older vids) and respond to ppl who have just now subscribed to this (again) great site.

Thx,

Sugar Nut



Jay's in Peru doing some volunteer work, but when gets back (basically a week from now) I'll remind him to take a look and respond. :)

Rob

Posted Mar 17, 2008 6:38pm

Ulysses
Deuce High
18 posts
Joined 07/08

The vid stops every time with about 8 more minutes to go. Something wrong with it?

Posted Aug 1, 2008 10:49pm

KRANTZ
Founder
Quad Deuces
1196 posts
Joined 07/07

Will get to all unanswered questions this weekend.

Posted Aug 2, 2008 2:41am

KRANTZ
Founder
Quad Deuces
1196 posts
Joined 07/07

Question for krantz. The 67h hand against Crush and Kill about 42 mins in. The board is 23634, no flush possible.

You automatically dismissed any chance he was bluffing on the river. Why is that?

It seems he would have c-bet almost his entire range on the flop, and then probably checked a lot of his no pair range on the turn, given 3 is not a great bluff card for him. I suppose he could have checked some of his higher pairs as well, looking to chk-raise.

When he bet on the river, isn't there a lot of air in his range? Or do you think he would give up with all of his 9Ts, KQo type hands?

Or is it because you checked the turn behind, on a decent card for you bluff on, so he can't put you on a float on the flop? Just wanted to understand your thinking process.

I would think given that the history you and him have had, top pair there on a nothing board would be a decent hand to get some excess action.



A reasonable player would give up, given that I've clearly got showdown value (I checked behind the turn) and have controlled the pot size.

Bear in mind that we have history, but preflop and not at all in any postflop situations, and there's an important difference between the two.

Posted Aug 4, 2008 9:42am

KRANTZ
Founder
Quad Deuces
1196 posts
Joined 07/07

Hi KRANTZ, I'm a LHE player so I have what may be an incredibly simplistic question about a series of hands you play against Crush and Kill. At the time these hands took place you had already noted C&K's tendency to make massive overbet shoves PF (and announce his action in a nasaly Asian voice).

At 30:44 C&K opens from the CO. You have 88 OTB and 3-bet, saying you're willing to get it all in if C&K pushes. Before the hand begins you're $2471 deep and C&K has you covered.

Then at 33:53 you have 99 in the CO. You mention that if C&K opens from the HJ you will just flat call and are NOT willing to get it all in. Before the hand starts you're $2963 deep and C&K again has you covered.

I'm not totally sure what the difference between these two hands is. Is the fact that you're 25 big blinds deeper in the second hand the overriding consideration here? Or is it a positional thing? That is, in the first hand he could be opening light from the CO and could interpret your BTN raise as a re-steal. But in the second his range should be stronger in the HJ and he may more accurately gauge the strength of your hand since you don't have absolute last position.

I realize this may be super obvious to a NL player, but I was confused by it and was hoping you could explain. I like watching non-LHE videos to change it up every now and then and because I still think there are things I can learn from the other videos and apply to the games I play. At the least, I find your videos entertaining, so thanks for that.



Hmm, after rewatching this the only reasonable explanation I have for that is that I just wasn't paying enough attention (this was my 3rd video and I wasn't as experienced playing while talking out loud as I am now :-)). There really isn't that much of a difference between the stacks and actually given the fact I had just 3-bet him with 88, it was likely a better spot for me to 3-bet him with a hand like 99 with position. I say in the video that I don't want to coinflip but against C&K I think that if the money does go in preflop I will have the best of it more often than not given our preflop history.

Posted Aug 4, 2008 9:58am