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Poker Video: Limit Hold'Em by DeathDonkey (High Stakes)

first.

Very solid vid. I've just watched the DD's "Triple the Gold" series which was great and decided to try this one even though I don't play LHE at all and still enjoyed it. Very good discussion, a lot of interesting points. Way to go!

CD

Absolutely fantastic video guys. I think this is going to be a really terrific series.

I really like mike l sometimes dissenting view in this video I really think he brings another dynamic to the video which is really appreciated

This is going to be awesome

I love the contrast between you too and if the "arguements" throughout the series are as good as what's been shown here then DC has another massive winner on its hands.

Anyone else get the impression Mike's really enjoying watching Deathdonkey try and pulverize people? Espcially with 98 hand and with the QT hand. Kinda of like a dad who's not showing you he's proud you just smacked the hell out of the neighbourhood bully and has to chastise you for your aggression but deep down couldn't be enjoying it more

I love the "What If" discussion too. It's amazing how much you can out-level yourself in this game by over-thinking a lot.

Also awesome intro with mean sheep. This just NEEDED mentioning.

Keep it coming guys, fantastic

wow you guys need to make lots of videos together. some of the best limit holdem discussion i've heard in a long time. A+

wow great to hear two different views on so many different decisions;

really blown away be this video and easily one of the best poker videos i have ever seen.

This series should be fun to watch. Bring in more of these.

Very good video, I think the best I've seen from DD. My style is a lot closer to DD's than Mike's, although I agree with Mike's sentiments on the Q5 hand (and I would have been owned by CLD2468).

I think the golden piece of advice/experience in this video came Mike at the end of the video (perhaps someone has mentioned this before somewhere, but I have not heard it): A tilter is more likely to revert to what their most natural play is.

As it applies to me, my play loses a lot of balance when I am tilted and I tend to like a bad robot.

amazingly good video... and funny

When disagreeing i mostly voted for mike, but i guess that is because it was DDs hands we saw. If it hade been mikes hands probably DD had given the best alternatives.

outstanding video. really looking forward to the rest of this series, I actually think that 3-4 handed play is quite common, especially if you like to start many new games as I do. and of course great intro

I thought the discussion on the QTo hand was really interesting in terms of the differenes in style between the two of u.

1) Let's say I play vs someone who never 3-bets pf from the BB OOP. Is it then sometimes correct to check back the flop? My thinking is that the BB is exploiting the 100% c-bet and by sometimes checking I deny him that.

2) Why is it so wrong to only XR stronger hands than Qx? I mean you can still balance with draws to make it difficult, no?

3) Mike, how would you describe DD in terms of style?

4) DD, how would you describe Mike in terms of style?

Awesome video guys, so many sick hands

Awesome video guys, so many sick hands

I forget so say it, but totally agree.

I dont play near this high limits and/or shorthanded but this is fucking awesome! I love DD's play so much considering I just finished the Lags on a Leash series but OMG mike l brings so much discussion to the table. Both are awesome, this rocks and although I don't play anywhere near these stakes this is the reason I joined DC.

1) Let's say I play vs someone who never 3-bets pf from the BB OOP. Is it then sometimes correct to check back the flop? My thinking is that the BB is exploiting the 100% c-bet and by sometimes checking I deny him that.

2) Why is it so wrong to only XR stronger hands than Qx? I mean you can still balance with draws to make it difficult, no?

3) Mike, how would you describe DD in terms of style?

4) DD, how would you describe Mike in terms of style?

1. I think if you decided to c-bet 100% when hu on the flop in lhe it'd be closer to optimal than most strategies we could think up. That said, there are clearly some times against some players to check the flop, maybe even a lot as a strategic counter to constant c/ring or whatever else they might be up to.

2. 3-4 handed, especially against players you have played with before, it's best to c/r a wide variety of hands. in fact, you might even c/r the exact same hand on the exact same flop 1/2 the time and then c/c the other 1/2. so part of it should just be random. the problem is most players slip into their comfort zone in deciding when to be random, so it ends up not really being random. for instance a player may decide he is going to balance his flop c/res by c/ring most draws, but then he ends up choosing the draws he c/res with as only his premium draws. so his attempt to mix it up becomes quite readable by savvy players.

3. DD is an expert lagtag. he's out of line just often enough to continue to get paid. he's hard to make fold, but he's willing to lay a hand down if need be. ive actually played a fair amount with him, mainly live, and he's tough to read most of the time. that said he's welcome in most games because his image is playful and laggy. his style online is well balanced and he game selects well which can never be overrated. we have a lot of parallels in our game, but we plan to argue out a lot of points in these videos. one thing youll notice is we'll oftentimes accept when we're wrong about a hand. we're always willing to learn, and because of that sometimes we just argue a point for the sake of learning why it's wrong.

4) DD, how would you describe Mike in terms of style?

Mike is like the king of exploitation, I would say he's less "balanced" than me but only because he consistently pinpoints little things that he can do to exploit somebody. One thing that is a constant theme with his commentary and posts is noticing something about a villain that I might just let slip by, and he'll want to immediately use that information to make an unorthodox play. I've never played live with anyone who is so quickly able to get into the mind of his opponents, and see things from their point of view. This is especially hard to do with big fish, because their thinking about poker is so erratic, but Mike is able to see patterns in their play that show him what they think about the game, and then he uses that information against them. Some players you would put into a specific game and expect they would perform around the same every session, having a sort of semi-consistent winrate, Mike I feel would continue to rise because the more info. he gains about people the more he adds to his arsenal, I think that's why he has always gravitated more to live play than online, because the player pool is a bit smaller and he has these detailed reads on the hundreds of live players he plays with frequently that really let him maximally exploit them.

LOVE this series.

Very good stuff guys.

What everyone else has said. Great video. Cool hearing you guys talk LHE.

Very few 3-4 handed vids anywhere on the net. This is awesome.

Tnx guys great reponses!

I have always been a big fan of two or more coaches/admins giving opinions.

I am willing to bet, this format not only helps the viewers but the two of you also.

This vid is a classic. I cant wait for more.

thank you, thank you ,thank you!!!

please consider doing some hands which are new to both of you.

After the 74 hand you critisize "Oh yeaaahhh!"'s play, but don't give him credit for the same logic you have applied. He bets this dry K 8 4 flop, gets called by the whole field and the 5 on the turn gives any possible straight draw a straght or a pair, somebody might have slowplayed a better hand or just played a decent hand passively (what you feared as well) and he doesn't want to get checkraised and have to pay 2 big bets with his pair and gutshot. On the river, if he is capable of thinking at nearly the same level as you did, and has paid attention when the JJ vs AK hand went down, his check doesn't look as bad anymore. Or am I missing something?

Btw.: An incredible video! Discussions like these are marvelous. Thank you!

at 41 minutes in when CLD donks into you and the bb on the AAT flop, my first thought was "lol he has K high and he is never folding"
now granted that he could sometimes have a bluff, but it is just going to suck completely for you to raise the flop and bet the turn because you need to committ 2BB to win what will be a 4BB (not including the money you put in on the flop) pot.
You just aren't going to see many betfolds on this flop. Maybe you'll even see zero. He has already shown that he will make amazingly bad peels as well play passively with made hands, so he is going to be outplaying the hell out of you with his k high donk/call cc cc line.
I really think you guys were way off in believing that if CLD didn't improve, that you would have won the pot.

Im too dumb to take this all in only watching it once. Gonna have to replay it ;P

Interesting point Snowball, though I'm not sure I agree or not, I mean I guess it all comes down to our assumption of whether he was going to SD with king high unimproved, I still think probably not but certainly given your assumption a flop fold is best.

fourscoreseven, good point you make but I think there is a difference in the situation on the turn, when we checked the turn we had no idea whether one of the two guys behind us would bet, and it seemed likely that the PFR who bet into 3 players on the flop had a strong range and would fire again. From his perspective, he knows every single person checked to him, and nobody raised him on the flop, I would definitely have bet his hand there on the turn.

Great episode! LOL'ed at this:

-ok, first of all: i do love suited connectors and i really like spades
-sure.
-especially spades
-yes.

mike was very serious about that, obv he likes scs & spades too

Time Link to 00:08:14

Hi guys,

I am rewatching this fantastic series, but this time taking a more active approach to learning.

I think you both make good points as to why you take your flop lines. I agree with Mike that most villians are going to get stubborn and auto call down their Ace high hands and also some K highs as well given the paired board and the fact it is early in the session. DD makes a good point that most villians will be 2 brling here, however, I don't think this is such a bad thing when we choose to just peel since there are quite a few cards that can come on the turn that give us reason to play on. Obviously, any heart, 6,7,8,9,T is good. Since the villian will be betting all of these turns it gives you an opportunity to CR for value any 8 or 9 and maybe CR semibluff hearts and perhap picked up straight draws.

While I have you, which picked up draws might you choose not to semibluff on the turn?

Time Link to 00:34:11

You both quickly agreed that this turn is a call. I thought this was a close spot. EDIT: When I wrote this post, I thought the button bet again on the turn. Please assume button bets again.

How close do you think this decision is?
How many outs do you think you have?
How often do you think you are ahead.

I had several reasons why I thought this was close.

1) The five could have hit someones range and we now have bottom pair no kicker.
2) The button is continuing to bet into 3 players
3) There are two clubs on the board.
4) SB is super passive and could easily have a K or 8 or pocket pair.
5) we are only drawing to a one card straight and not to the nuts(probably not a big deal).

This may be a grey area situation or perhaps you think this is standard.

Time Link to 00:41:13

I am wondering if you choose to bluff here would it be better to just float this flop and bet if checked to on the turn? I would be concerned that a player whom is potentially tilting might rebluff here.

I think a float would be a cheaper and probably more convincing way to bluff.

also, might it not be better to have a slightly better hand to do this with? like 7c8c.

I agree with snowballs assessment of this hand.

Are you always making a play in this situation? How often if not?

Hi guys,

I am rewatching this fantastic series, but this time taking a more active approach to learning.

I think you both make good points as to why you take your flop lines. I agree with Mike that most villians are going to get stubborn and auto call down their Ace high hands and also some K highs as well given the paired board and the fact it is early in the session. DD makes a good point that most villians will be 2 brling here, however, I don't think this is such a bad thing when we choose to just peel since there are quite a few cards that can come on the turn that give us reason to play on. Obviously, any heart, 6,7,8,9,T is good. Since the villian will be betting all of these turns it gives you an opportunity to CR for value any 8 or 9 and maybe CR semibluff hearts and perhap picked up straight draws.

While I have you, which picked up draws might you choose not to semibluff on the turn?

Looking at it again, I'm thinking like the 6 or the A on turn would be sorta bad to semibluff, since I can be drawing dead some, and he will be stubborn.

You both quickly agreed that this turn is a call. I thought this was a close spot. EDIT: When I wrote this post, I thought the button bet again on the turn. Please assume button bets again.

How close do you think this decision is?
How many outs do you think you have?
How often do you think you are ahead.

I had several reasons why I thought this was close.

1) The five could have hit someones range and we now have bottom pair no kicker.
2) The button is continuing to bet into 3 players
3) There are two clubs on the board.
4) SB is super passive and could easily have a K or 8 or pocket pair.
5) we are only drawing to a one card straight and not to the nuts(probably not a big deal).

This may be a grey area situation or perhaps you think this is standard.

Assuming button bets turn again and SB calls - well I'd be getting 8:1, I think its fair to say I'd have around 5-6 outs here, so yeah I guess its closer than we said at the time. I think I have +implied odds with these guys in the pot though so I could get some favorable river action (meaning called when they should fold most likely). But yeah I think its a little close looking back and you are right to think about it, but I'd still come to the conclusion its profitable to continue.

I am wondering if you choose to bluff here would it be better to just float this flop and bet if checked to on the turn? I would be concerned that a player whom is potentially tilting might rebluff here.

I think a float would be a cheaper and probably more convincing way to bluff.

also, might it not be better to have a slightly better hand to do this with? like 7c8c.

I agree with snowballs assessment of this hand.

Are you always making a play in this situation? How often if not?

I think this is a fun hand because online LHE has changed a bunch since this video imo. I think folding the flop now is generally better because people are all basically highly SD bound at this point, and people are donk bluffing a little less in my limited experience recently. I think at the time I prefer a flop raise because 1) if he has total air but spikes a pair on the turn I lose a smallish-medium sized pot that I should have won, 2) tilty people probably fire multiple barrels here so I'll still have to maybe raise the turn to win which is even more expensive.

Time Link to 01:13:56

I think raising the turn is fine if you can fold to a three-bet. Raising some turns and calling a raise and calling another river bet seems excessive.