Episode Two

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Episode Two

Sthief introduces a few more advanced concepts as he helps the viewer learn a framework for deeply analyzing hands, covering the value of draws, calling preflop vs. 3-bettors with a range of hands, and when to 4-bet preflop.

tags: memoirs sthief sthief09 josh 4-betting calling preflop pocket pairs playing draws beginners nlhe nlhe math ipod friendly

This Series: Memoirs of a Limidonk

"But can't I just bet the minimum?" sthief09, a former Limit Holdem' player turned No-Limit expert, teaches Entity about the mighty power that is "ALL-IN."

Previous Video: You and Your HUD | Next Video: Episode Three

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Comments for Episode Two

Robin_Ripper
Pair of Deuces
140 posts
Joined 01/08

Very good and solid explenation on 3 and 4betting.

Audio was not that great though.(seems like a 'bad' microphone)

edit: Just checked the first limidonk vid and that has great audio :)

Posted Jan 8, 2008 8:47pm

Entity
Founder
Quad Deuces
2801 posts
Joined 11/06

Very good and solid explenation on 3 and 4betting.

Audio was not that great though.(seems like a 'bad' microphone)

edit: Just checked the first limidonk vid and that has great audio :)



It was recording with the same mic, but unfortunately some distortion got introduced in the editing process. I'm testing out now on my editing rig to see if I can produce a better quality version.

Posted Jan 8, 2008 10:27pm

schaffem111
Set of Deuces
269 posts
Joined 01/08

Audio was fine on the version I just downloaded - guess you fixed it?

Very interesting stuff. I thought I had a good handle on the implied odds necessary to call 3bets with small PP's, but apparently I was way off. When I saw your slide showing that a set will lost to an overpair 18.5% of the time (assuming you always get AI on flop), I thought to myself - no way. No freakin' way this is possible. Then I thought about it. You can get close just by expanding the rule of 4 from 2 cards (turn/river) to 4 cards (remaining 2 flop cards/turn/river) - making it a rule of 8. 2 outs x 8 = 16%. Add in the possibility of 4 card flushes (especially if your suits are covered) or straights beating you and its easy to approximate 18.5%.

Where can we get the spreadsheets you made? I'd love to download an play around with them.

Posted Jan 9, 2008 6:30am

nomdeguerre
Deuce High
43 posts
Joined 06/07

Yet another really interesting video. I knew that the implied odds with a small pocket pair were worse than many people think, but I still learned an awful lot about 4 betting and analyising these kind of situations. Keep 'em coming Josh!

Posted Jan 9, 2008 7:59am

tubasteve
Quad Deuces
1995 posts
Joined 11/07

Overall the vid looks good, but it's difficult to read some of the text in the powerpoint in the streaming version of the video.

Also, it would be nice to show some graphics for the hands you're explaining during the video. For myself and many others I'm sure, it is difficult to envision a hand upon just a verbal description; we need to see a hand history or graphical replay of the action. In the spots where you are just talking with the topic of discussion on the screen, maybe add in some stuff like this. :)

Posted Jan 9, 2008 2:13pm

nlbored
Deuce High
3 posts
Joined 01/08

You need to make some mock up hands and load them into a poker tracker replayer. It is so hard to concentrate on what you are saying in a "video" w/o visual cues. For example for > 10 min in the "video" nothing but the word "expanding" was on the screen. (8:02 to 18:18). Put pictures of relevant cards, a cartoon picture of an aggro face if talking about an aggro player or something that goes along with what you are saying. I seriously find it hard to concentrate on what you are saying or even get through a video.

That said I will watch it again and try to pay more attention.

Posted Jan 9, 2008 9:50pm

sthief09
Exec Producer
Set of Deuces
317 posts
Joined 07/07

You need to make some mock up hands and load them into a poker tracker replayer. It is so hard to concentrate on what you are saying in a "video" w/o visual cues. For example for > 10 min in the "video" nothing but the word "expanding" was on the screen. (8:02 to 18:18). Put pictures of relevant cards, a cartoon picture of an aggro face if talking about an aggro player or something that goes along with what you are saying. I seriously find it hard to concentrate on what you are saying or even get through a video.

That said I will watch it again and try to pay more attention.




Hey, yeah I tried to balance having enough Powerpoint with not having too much that it takes away. That said, I probably should've broken up the Expanding section. I'll get a link for the sheet, and for all 3 of my outlines for my 3 vids so far. That should make things easier to follow. I can't blame you for struggling listening to 9 or 10 minutes of just audio.

This is the last lecture video. In Episode 3, Entity and I discuss some hands I think he misplayed, or that I found interesting. In Ep 4 and beyond, there's some standard live play, live play with Entity sweating me, Unconventional Wisdom-type hand analysis, and more interaction between Entity and I. I just really wanted to lay a foundation for a tough, aggressive style, so I can concentrate on more specific situations like firing the second barrel in later vids.

Posted Jan 9, 2008 11:37pm

William Wallace
Pair of Deuces
132 posts
Joined 01/08

You need to make some mock up hands and load them into a poker tracker replayer. It is so hard to concentrate on what you are saying in a "video" w/o visual cues. For example for > 10 min in the "video" nothing but the word "expanding" was on the screen. (8:02 to 18:18). Put pictures of relevant cards, a cartoon picture of an aggro face if talking about an aggro player or something that goes along with what you are saying. I seriously find it hard to concentrate on what you are saying or even get through a video.

That said I will watch it again and try to pay more attention.


Hey, yeah I tried to balance having enough Powerpoint with not having too much that it takes away. That said, I probably should've broken up the Expanding section. I'll get a link for the sheet, and for all 3 of my outlines for my 3 vids so far. That should make things easier to follow. I can't blame you for struggling listening to 9 or 10 minutes of just audio.

This is the last lecture video. In Episode 3, Entity and I discuss some hands I think he misplayed, or that I found interesting. In Ep 4 and beyond, there's some standard live play, live play with Entity sweating me, Unconventional Wisdom-type hand analysis, and more interaction between Entity and I. I just really wanted to lay a foundation for a tough, aggressive style, so I can concentrate on more specific situations like firing the second barrel in later vids.



I actually like this sort of presentation because it gives a sort of "podcast" feel to it and when I have an hour long drive to work, I usually listen to audiobooks. I listened to your first episode while driving and wished there were more like it.

Posted Jan 10, 2008 8:10am

sthief09
Exec Producer
Set of Deuces
317 posts
Joined 07/07

Hi everyone, I put the episode 1 and 2 outlines, and the supplemental sheet up on my blog. I had serious reservations about releasing the outlines so I hope you enjoy.

www.sthief09.com

Posted Jan 10, 2008 10:27am

themightyjim2k
Set of Deuces
340 posts
Joined 04/07

btw this video is freaking awesome. Your math really makes this stuff hit home, some of it I intuitively new from watching other vids and reading discussions, but its really great to see the calculations in progress.

I think this is a tremendous start to the series and I'm really hoping for more videos in this format.

kudos to your hard work josh, and I'm really excited for the rest of the series.

Posted Jan 16, 2008 7:18am

Raist0000
Pair of Deuces
140 posts
Joined 07/07

I'm a limit player and I don't know exactly what is "stack odds".

When you openraise preflop and SB 3bets, what number do you have to multiply by 20 to see if you both have enough stack for calling to be profitable? The actual pot before you calling? The pot after your call? the amount you have to put in the pot to call?

Posted Jan 17, 2008 9:18am

sthief09
Exec Producer
Set of Deuces
317 posts
Joined 07/07

I'm a limit player and I don't know exactly what is "stack odds".

When you openraise preflop and SB 3bets, what number do you have to multiply by 20 to see if you both have enough stack for calling to be profitable? The actual pot before you calling? The pot after your call? the amount you have to put in the pot to call?




(money in the pot + effective stacks after the 3-bet)/money to call is your stack odds.

you open for 10 from sb. bb makes it 30 with 200 behind after his 3-bet. your stack odds would be (40 + 200) / 20 would be 12:1. you could also get a quit estimate just by dividing the 200 by the 20 to call, so about 10:1. it's good to have this number in mind even if you don't have a PP or SC, since it tells you how deep the stacks will be relative to the pot.

Posted Jan 18, 2008 5:09am

sthief09
Exec Producer
Set of Deuces
317 posts
Joined 07/07

btw this video is freaking awesome. Your math really makes this stuff hit home, some of it I intuitively new from watching other vids and reading discussions, but its really great to see the calculations in progress.

I think this is a tremendous start to the series and I'm really hoping for more videos in this format.

kudos to your hard work josh, and I'm really excited for the rest of the series.




Thanks Jim! I was really excited to put this one out and I'm glad it's gotten some positive feedback. Please keep the comments coming.

Posted Jan 18, 2008 5:10am

dzejkej
Pair of Deuces
207 posts
Joined 01/08

Great series! You definitely know how to explaing things .. Keep them comming!

Posted Jan 18, 2008 10:41pm

edenman
Deuce High
21 posts
Joined 03/08

Nice video. keep going!

Posted Mar 29, 2008 2:15am

mikefut
Deuce High
3 posts
Joined 03/08

I really like this series. I passed it over at first since I was never a big limit player, but this is great for anyone. Love the content and the presentation style. Are you using keynote? These slides look really nice.

Posted Apr 5, 2008 7:46pm

PanchoStern
Pair of Deuces
206 posts
Joined 02/08

Excellent vid. Tubasteve's idea is great about showing cards to help visualize.

Posted May 26, 2008 8:17pm