Poker Video: Limit Hold'Em by DosXX (High Stakes)

Time Link to 00:43:57

OTR, You talk about following thru with your bluffs on the river but also about value betting a 6. To me this seems contradictory. If it looks like he's showing down, which is pretty apparent since he called the turn, it doesn't seem very prudent to want to bluff. I just don't see Dosxx having a busted draw in this situation (he would have bet or c/r the turn), and I'm sure neither do you since you feel you can value bet pretty light. Do you see what I'm saying?

Time Link to 00:10:18

How do you usually cope with 3betting from the bb against tougher players? Treat it valuewise, or moreso for foldequity?

Time Link to 00:18:45

Think calling down with 10s is a little weak? Shouldnt dosxx be checkraising all 9s, most his 8s, some pp below 8? Plus his draws, like J10/Q10/JQ specifically?

Time Link to 00:18:46

Love the turn CR idea, unless you know that OTR will raise any Ax he 3bet with in this spot pf, or will raise JJ/QQ/KK on the turn regardless (which i dont think), but he probably still will bet them on the turn.

Time Link to 00:21:15

Bet turn cr river?

Time Link to 00:24:33

Folding here cant really be that bad? I mean we`re going to get barreled off our hand ui on the turn so often and we dont have bd flushdraw and the pot is tiny.

Time Link to 00:36:52

Fold the flop?

Time Link to 01:18:20

BUT WHAT DID HE HAVE!?

OTR, You talk about following thru with your bluffs on the river but also about value betting a 6. To me this seems contradictory. If it looks like he's showing down, which is pretty apparent since he called the turn, it doesn't seem very prudent to want to bluff. I just don't see Dosxx having a busted draw in this situation (he would have bet or c/r the turn), and I'm sure neither do you since you feel you can value bet pretty light. Do you see what I'm saying?

I'm not very sure? Often we should both value bet thinly and follow through on our bluffs. If we don't our play will become very exploitable by players who adjust well to our ranges. Put another way, we can value bet thinly to protect against thin calldowns because of our bluffs.

BUT WHAT DID HE HAVE!?

KQ

Fold the flop?

My hand is pretty shitty.

Folding here cant really be that bad? I mean we`re going to get barreled off our hand ui on the turn so often and we dont have bd flushdraw and the pot is tiny.

We have two overs and a straight draw though.

Bet turn cr river?

Seems like fps to me. We'd rather check more of our range on the turn than on the river after we bet the turn.

Think calling down with 10s is a little weak? Shouldnt dosxx be checkraising all 9s, most his 8s, some pp below 8? Plus his draws, like J10/Q10/JQ specifically?

Well I'm pretty indifferent about those draws since I don't gain value anyway. Look at the preflop ranges, he doesn't have too many 8s and 9s. Plus I think c/r with pps below 8s is somewhat spewy.

How do you usually cope with 3betting from the bb against tougher players? Treat it valuewise, or moreso for foldequity?

Clarify. I'm not sure what you're asking.

My hand is pretty shitty.

My thought exactly.

We have two overs and a straight draw though.

True. I do however think if we c/c-c/r when we improve to a draw, its not going to look very believable unless we have specific history. I think i like cr the flop more, since cards can come that makes it hard to him to continue with A high or even small pairs, and most K highs will have a tough time from the turn regardless.

Sure it is a little fps. But almost everybody will find it hard to check back say 1010+ on this river when checked to, and when you build the pot this big its going to be hard to not get to curious? Completely agree that the turn is the better spot overall though.

Well I'm pretty indifferent about those draws since I don't gain value anyway. Look at the preflop ranges, he doesn't have too many 8s and 9s. Plus I think c/r with pps below 8s is somewhat spewy.

Raising from the hijack? 108s/98s/A8s/A8o/K8s/A9s/A9o/J9s? I wouldnt either checkraise most pps below 8 on this flop most of the time, doesnt mean that others wont.

Clarify. I'm not sure what you're asking.

In the video Dosxx 3bets you from the bb with KQo and you cap A9s, which i assume is purely for value. Would you be as likely to cap say 79s/JQo/55 to build up "cheap" fold equity? Clearer i hope?

My thought exactly.

It's also K high.

Raising from the hijack? 108s/98s/A8s/A8o/K8s/A9s/A9o/J9s? I wouldnt either checkraise most pps below 8 on this flop most of the time, doesnt mean that others wont.

Well if you use that particular range we're only 50% against his value range. If I widen it a bit more , I can make our range get up to about 55-59%.

In the video Dosxx 3bets you from the bb with KQo and you cap A9s, which i assume is purely for value. Would you be as likely to cap say 79s/JQo/55 to build up "cheap" fold equity? Clearer i hope?

I would cap QJo and 55 for value and 79s most of the time for balance/fold equity. I'd cap a lot of stuff on the button as long as I suspected he was 3betting a sufficiently wide range.

I would cap QJo and 55 for value and 79s most of the time for balance/fold equity. I'd cap a lot of stuff on the button as long as I suspected he was 3betting a sufficiently wide range.

I just have trouble knowing what to do when you cap in pos in these wide situations, and end up probably barreling too little or too much in spots.

Well if you use that particular range we're only 50% against his value range. If I widen it a bit more , I can make our range get up to about 55-59%.

Im thinking that we need to raise 1010 on the turn to protect our semibluffing range?

It's also K high.

This is true, but we cant continue on alot of turns if he bets. Put it this way, i dont mind a flop fold a lot of the time.

Im thinking that we need to raise 1010 on the turn to protect our semibluffing range?

I don't think we should be semibluffing too much in this spot so we don't need to raise too thinly for value. Also we're just getting punished a bunch when we're behind.

Hi - I am just a learner LHE player.

I have a couple of questions.

You talk about not having a 3bet range out of BB vs EP or tight range situations with the justification that your range becomes face up and the benefits of getting the extra bet now does not compensate for lack of position and that range visibility.

My question is : At what point does that become important? How do you measure when it is appropriate to forsake value now for range opaqueness?

Also - there seemed to be lightish opens and defends from both of you - in some spots.
Is there a dynamic alone that justifies these plays? Or is it solely a level of competence of the "hero" that allows this?

Hi - I am just a learner LHE player.

I have a couple of questions.

You talk about not having a 3bet range out of BB vs EP or tight range situations with the justification that your range becomes face up and the benefits of getting the extra bet now does not compensate for lack of position and that range visibility.

My question is : At what point does that become important? How do you measure when it is appropriate to forsake value now for range opaqueness?

Also - there seemed to be lightish opens and defends from both of you - in some spots.
Is there a dynamic alone that justifies these plays? Or is it solely a level of competence of the "hero" that allows this?

First question: probably the cutoff or hijack... I never 3bet so I don't really know.

Second question: I don't think any of the preflop plays are too light other than A5 in thee big blind which is super close and probably fine against most villains.

OTR

Re: My first question - I was thinking more in terms of a matrix of villian type and position.

e.g. If it was a fish at any level with perhaps some positional awareness opening EP HU - and we hold QQ+ in BB - we 3bet?
But maybe a TAGfish who is BE or slight loser at a small stakes game - we might still 3bet QQ+ .... given some tendencies?

I hope you can see the progression I am trying to suggest.....and that there is a cutoff at some point and if thats so what is the hierachy of pre-conditions?
Is it?
(1) Villian type
then
(2) Villian post tendencies
then
(3) Starting hand range
then
(4)Starting position '
Or in any order of the above....

OTR

Re: My first question - I was thinking more in terms of a matrix of villian type and position.

e.g. If it was a fish at any level with perhaps some positional awareness opening EP HU - and we hold QQ+ in BB - we 3bet?
But maybe a TAGfish who is BE or slight loser at a small stakes game - we might still 3bet QQ+ .... given some tendencies?

I hope you can see the progression I am trying to suggest.....and that there is a cutoff at some point and if thats so what is the hierachy of pre-conditions?
Is it?
(1) Villian type
then
(2) Villian post tendencies
then
(3) Starting hand range
then
(4)Starting position '
Or in any order of the above....

I think you're overthinking this. The only reason I'd ever think 3betting in a narrow range situation would be correct would be if the villain were extremely spewy postflop regardless of my action preflop. When I say spewy, I mean willing to put in a lot of unwarranted action in with stuff like bottom pair and A high on the big streets. And generally I find that 3betting in any situation HU in the big blind to make my life more difficult, although I recognize that some people are successful doing it. In short, it happens so rarely that it's not really within the scope of the series.

Sorry - I am just learning LHE - I am only playing $1 - and my play just seems to be bet and raise with the top of my range always.
Been consuming a fair number of LHE videos - and noticed that you dont have a 3b range vs tight ranges - and I am trying to drilling down into the whys of it rather than building a schema.

Sorry - I am just learning LHE - I am only playing $1 - and my play just seems to be bet and raise with the top of my range always.
Been consuming a fair number of LHE videos - and noticed that you dont have a 3b range vs tight ranges - and I am trying to drilling down into the whys of it rather than building a schema.

Don't be sorry! Sorry if I sounded harsh. I didn't mean to come off that way!

KQ

AQ sir.

I don't think we should be semibluffing too much in this spot so we don't need to raise too thinly for value. Also we're just getting punished a bunch when we're behind.

Completely agree with OTR here the more I think about it, the more TT should probably be a calldown and that we shouldn't really have a semibluffing range, since OTR;s semibluffing range is likely beating DosXX semibluffing range and it's pointless to semibluff against my pairs and worse draws.

Sorry - I am just learning LHE - I am only playing $1 - and my play just seems to be bet and raise with the top of my range always.
Been consuming a fair number of LHE videos - and noticed that you dont have a 3b range vs tight ranges - and I am trying to drilling down into the whys of it rather than building a schema.

I agree with OTR regarding it being a mistake to just raise the top of your range. Consider 2 scenarios:

1) UTG raises, you 3 bet from the BB = 6.5 bets in the pot with you to act.
2) UTG raises, you call from the BB and check, UTG bets = 5.5 bets with you to act. Now, you get the benefit every time of deciding to fold and investing 1 bet less, to call and make the pot 6.5 bets, or to raise and make the pot 7.5 bets. Contrast that to the first scenario where you have given up all your options in the pot and given the power back to the UTG player.

I would also caution a beginning player about some of the concepts in this video. Most of these plays are aimed against high level thinking players at mid stakes or higher. Some of the assumptions we generally gloss over in the vid, and are very often extremely important to our decisions, may not apply in smaller games.

Time Link to 00:58:14

Doxx,

This is a pretty savvy check call on the river as opposed to a standard value bet. I definitely didn't expect it and I don't think you guys talked about it at all. What was your thinking behind it?

Doxx,

This is a pretty savvy check call on the river as opposed to a standard value bet. I definitely didn't expect it and I don't think you guys talked about it at all. What was your thinking behind it?

If you think about my perception of OTR's flop calling range (which has widened since we talked about this hand in the episode), my hand doesn't have a ton of value, because flush draws/small pairs/nines will have a tough time calling this river, since for small pairs and nines the board came out very bad. So betting gets us called by his weakest aces (if OTR even has weak aces) and backdoored pairs of tens/jacks. But, those backdoored pairs are unlikely, so I just think OTR folds a decent amount when we bet, given the flop/turn action.

I think if we check, he bets all those hands that will call, but also some busted draws, so I tend to think checking adds a little more value than betting.

I joined this series late, but I'm glad I did. You both reason very clearly, and it seems you are used to work or discuss together. I'd love to see more of you guys.

Sorry, I have nothing valuable to add here.

I joined this series late, but I'm glad I did. You both reason very clearly, and it seems you are used to work or discuss together. I'd love to see more of you guys.

Sorry, I have nothing valuable to add here.

Funny you should say that because this is the first time we've had extended discussion about poker. Naturals I guess.