jjd323
591 posts
Joined 08/2008
Time Link to 00:25:02
Do you think that there are any hands that you are going to be giving up with here and check/folding, or is it the case that this board, preflop situation, and your range are simply not drawy and airbally enough to think you don't have enough FE?
It seems that 8 high is about the worst hand you could have, and there are going to be a fair number of T and J high hands you might play the same that give you a decent bluffing range here - or would you not cap the flop with a hand like J8, JT, T5s, T4s? How do you play QT and Q8 on this board?
Posted over 1 year ago
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Feedmebooze
204 posts
Joined 09/2010
Jeremy wins day, now with extra added win ty. The AQ was a particular lightbulb moment for me as I've just taken a look at hem and I've been folding weaker hands on boards like that far to much. I'm starting to get my head around balancing calling ranges as honestly until the last few weeks It's something I haven't really considered as much as I should have been.
Posted over 1 year ago
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MrBug
82 posts
Joined 01/2008
Regarding the concept in the last hand, I'd like to hear OTR's thoughts on a tough spot BB v BTN:
Reasonably tough player on the button opens, you defend (and you never 3-bet OOP, opponent knows this). Flop Q84, either two tone or rainbow. You c/c. Turn is a Q. You c/c. River is an 8. Button barrels.
Problem: there is no deception to your hand if you're always check-raising your gutshots on the flop. You range is A high, K high and counterfeited 4's that may or may not have a kicker that plays.
Given that the button has a pretty easy value bet with ace high, which may widen his bluffing range:
1) What's your river calling range look like?
2) Is the decision to call with more king highs affected by the presence of a flush draw on the flop?
3) Is the decision to call with more king highs affected by the presence of a backdoor flush draw on the turn?
4) Would you always fold king high if the backdoor flush draw hit on the river, given that you can have strong (A/K hi) flushes sometimes?
5) Tongue in cheek question - does your decision change if the opponent is world class? 
Posted over 1 year ago
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OnTheRail15
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Joined 06/2008
Do you think that there are any hands that you are going to be giving up with here and check/folding, or is it the case that this board, preflop situation, and your range are simply not drawy and airbally enough to think you don't have enough FE?
It seems that 8 high is about the worst hand you could have, and there are going to be a fair number of T and J high hands you might play the same that give you a decent bluffing range here - or would you not cap the flop with a hand like J8, JT, T5s, T4s? How do you play QT and Q8 on this board?
Yeah I think this is a smart question, and I doubt that I'm giving up here ever, although I will note that if I were playing a true GTO style, I'd be giving up with some bluffs on both the turn and the river.
I probably wouldn't cap the flop with those J high hands and I might with those T highs. It would depend a bit on how often I thought my opponent was 3betting here for a free card and how often for a free card.
Those Q high hands are interesting. I think it's close between c/r and c/c, but I'd probably just c/r but not cap because of the multiway nature of the pot. In a hu pot, I think those are both very easy c/c though.
Posted over 1 year ago
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OnTheRail15
Coach
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Joined 06/2008
Jeremy wins day, now with extra added win ty. The AQ was a particular lightbulb moment for me as I've just taken a look at hem and I've been folding weaker hands on boards like that far to much. I'm starting to get my head around balancing calling ranges as honestly until the last few weeks It's something I haven't really considered as much as I should have been.
Glad I could help. Yeah don't fold hands stronger than AQ here without a very very strong read. (Like they show you their hand)
Posted over 1 year ago
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OnTheRail15
Coach
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Joined 06/2008
Regarding the concept in the last hand, I'd like to hear OTR's thoughts on a tough spot BB v BTN:
Reasonably tough player on the button opens, you defend (and you never 3-bet OOP, opponent knows this). Flop Q84, either two tone or rainbow. You c/c. Turn is a Q. You c/c. River is an 8. Button barrels.
Problem: there is no deception to your hand if you're always check-raising your gutshots on the flop. You range is A high, K high and counterfeited 4's that may or may not have a kicker that plays.
Given that the button has a pretty easy value bet with ace high, which may widen his bluffing range:
1) What's your river calling range look like?
2) Is the decision to call with more king highs affected by the presence of a flush draw on the flop?
3) Is the decision to call with more king highs affected by the presence of a backdoor flush draw on the turn?
4) Would you always fold king high if the backdoor flush draw hit on the river, given that you can have strong (A/K hi) flushes sometimes?
5) Tongue in cheek question - does your decision change if the opponent is world class? 
I don't think I fold K high here often at all against strong players. The problem is that he has a pretty close decision with K high and some might value bet it here. There are also some counterfeited hands that he will probably bluff with here. That along with the chance of chopping would lead me to cry call with K high here against anyone who is a good value better.
Posted over 1 year ago
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Deepsquat
614 posts
Joined 12/2007
Nice vid mate.
Regarding the AQ hand.
Obv super easy calldown and definately a cr for value candidate on the flop.
I agree with c/c c/r on that particular board with some of our range vs almost every high stakes player
My questios are:
How low will you go with Ax as a value cr on this flop, and do you envisage any problems with thus weakening your c/c, c/c range as a result?
Also, when taking a c/c, c/r line what kind of non value hands would you have. Obviously flush draws. But will you peel with hands like 87s with BDFD or something and cr a turned FD or pair? Just looking for what semi-bluffs etc we can have...
Posted over 1 year ago
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motienko
2111 posts
Joined 03/2008
Time Link to 00:14:28
I am curious what your reasoning is for not 3b out the of the BB? Have your results been significantly better since doing this assuming you used to 3b?
I currently flat all hands in BB to a UTG or HJ raise with the exception of when a maniac or super laggy player opens. I will 3b players who open in later position with a wide range and who don't play particularly well in 3b pots in position. I typically just flat against good thinking players from all positions.
Does this sound reasonable?
Do you ever change things up and 3b instead of flat?
I personally think it is more difficult to play against players who 3b instead of flat.
Posted over 1 year ago
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OnTheRail15
Coach
1373 posts
Joined 06/2008
I am curious what your reasoning is for not 3b out the of the BB? Have your results been significantly better since doing this assuming you used to 3b?
I currently flat all hands in BB to a UTG or HJ raise with the exception of when a maniac or super laggy player opens. I will 3b players who open in later position with a wide range and who don't play particularly well in 3b pots in position. I typically just flat against good thinking players from all positions.
Does this sound reasonable?
Do you ever change things up and 3b instead of flat?
I personally think it is more difficult to play against players who 3b instead of flat.
I think it allows you to have a more flexible and more easily balanced range. It also allows you to c/r bluff more, which is fun, and people play badly against people who bluff a lot.
I find it very easy to play against people who threebet out of the big blind since they generally are pretty unbalanced when they do.
Posted over 1 year ago
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UnicornPrincess
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OnTheRail15
Coach
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Joined 06/2008