---

Poker Video: Limit Hold'Em by OnTheRail15 (Mid Stakes)

nice vid! Thanks OTR. You always manage to say something that has me stuck scratching my head for a while and you didn't dissapoint this time (e.g. comment near the start about calling down light gets progressively more of a mistake the more we value bet light.. argh).

(EDIT: Oh, and having wrong hand displayed in the replayer.. not so good )

Time Link to 00:49:14

Why bet/3bet? Your kicker is not playing here.
Nice video, btw, ty. I noticed i might barrel too much turns, so a video on those bet flop, x/c turn (HU) situations, would be greati think.

A+

Time Link to 00:37:37

Checking the turn here confuses me quiet a lot, doesn't this give El Fumador licence to value bet you or are you counting on him bluffing at a higher frequency than vbet the river? Checking would appear to define the hand to him quite well. If you put him on a hand that you're ahead of I think that maybe the worst thing about checking the straight up lost value. Thinking about it I probably agree that betting the turn seems the better line.

If you were to take check line say, what other hands are you checking here? Also what advantages would you say there would be in checking this hand in particular? Against a very aggressive opponent I can see inducing bluffs being very effective whilst preserving equity when behind. It's very interesting because I haven't thought about this much until I saw this.

EDIT
Also doesn't checking make a villains play of calling wider on the flop more correct?

Time Link to 00:25:17

I prefer a turnbet because its not that likely that a good player will interpret your check here as a sign of giving up, and we will probably get called by K highs and bad Ax hands that we`re kind of freerolling against. My question is given that we do bet the turn, how to proceed on various rivercards that dont improve our hand?

Checking the turn here confuses me quiet a lot, doesn't this give El Fumador licence to value bet you or are you counting on him bluffing at a higher frequency than vbet the river? Checking would appear to define the hand to him quite well. If you put him on a hand that you're ahead of I think that maybe the worst thing about checking the straight up lost value. Thinking about it I probably agree that betting the turn seems the better line.

If you were to take check line say, what other hands are you checking here? Also what advantages would you say there would be in checking this hand in particular? Against a very aggressive opponent I can see inducing bluffs being very effective whilst preserving equity when behind. It's very interesting because I haven't thought about this much until I saw this.

EDIT
Also doesn't checking make a villains play of calling wider on the flop more correct?

All of this would be true if I was only checking a very narrow and weakish sd range here. But I'd be checking a huge range in this spot since I think this particular board texture fits within his range way better than it does within mine.

Honestly I wouldn't mind a check with any part of my range in this spot.

Why bet/3bet? Your kicker is not playing here.

Right. I didn't notice that. Bet/Call is better anyway given the preflop ranges.

(EDIT: Oh, and having wrong hand displayed in the replayer.. not so good )

Sorry about that.

I prefer a turnbet because its not that likely that a good player will interpret your check here as a sign of giving up, and we will probably get called by K highs and bad Ax hands that we`re kind of freerolling against. My question is given that we do bet the turn, how to proceed on various rivercards that dont improve our hand?

I'd probably c/f here a lot more than you would though so it fits well within my overall strategy.

A+

Thanks man!

Time Link to 00:26:36

the word is congruent.

Nice vid. I still fold to KQ even though its the top of our range. People just don't bluff here.

the word is congruent.

Nice vid. I still fold to KQ even though its the top of our range. People just don't bluff here.

The word IS congruent. Thanks!

also curious as to why you called the turn with 7 hi on the KJTx board. It seems like you are pretty far behind his range.

Time Link to 00:34:20

how did you win this hand? Is this type of thing the secret to your success?

I'd probably c/f here a lot more than you would though so it fits well within my overall strategy.

You c/f JJ67 double suited in steal spots where you have iniative?

Anyway, my question was that if the turn gets checked through, we should be check folding alot on the river? If he wanted to bluff, wouldnt the turn be the spot for him to do it? Unless youre in some kind of leveling war, which i kind of find unlikely, for most opponents anyway.

You c/f JJ67 double suited in steal spots where you have iniative?

Anyway, my question was that if the turn gets checked through, we should be check folding alot on the river? If he wanted to bluff, wouldnt the turn be the spot for him to do it? Unless youre in some kind of leveling war, which i kind of find unlikely, for most opponents anyway.

Sometimes. Why not?

I'm not sure it depends on the exact river card. I kinda think we should value bet the river if it gets checked through. He shouldn't really be checking a better hand behind very often at all. Anyway I said I prefer a bet on the turn in this particular spot in the video.

Cheers for the reply, I posted as I was watching and you went on to explain a lot . So as I understand it this the turn checking is part of an overall GTO strategy. LOL what am I trying to get at here I don't even know how to ask the question now. It's formulating and it's certainly there as my brain hurts. I'll post later lol

Cheers for the reply, I posted as I was watching and you went on to explain a lot . So as I understand it this the turn checking is part of an overall GTO strategy. LOL what am I trying to get at here I don't even know how to ask the question now. It's formulating and it's certainly there as my brain hurts. I'll post later lol

Not sure if I'd classify it as GTO; it's part of a balanced strategy which makes sense within my overall strategy.

That's just what I was wondering Mixed exploitative, sort of like ccing out of BB vs good players and 3bing for value vs less observant ones. Thanks for putting up with my dumb questions. It's a really interesting series.

Sometimes. Why not?

I'm not sure it depends on the exact river card. I kinda think we should value bet the river if it gets checked through. He shouldn't really be checking a better hand behind very often at all. Anyway I said I prefer a bet on the turn in this particular spot in the video.

¨
Because almost every opponent is going to be peeling that type of flop with about every hand in his range? Yeah i remember what you said in the video, not trying to be a dick about it or anything.

¨
Because almost every opponent is going to be peeling that type of flop with about every hand in his range? Yeah i remember what you said in the video, not trying to be a dick about it or anything.

Well since I c/r and c/c a bunch, and I c/f only sometimes I don't see the problem really. I'm not trying to be a dick either, I'm just trying to point out that your two points: 1. c/c here turns your hand face up and your opponent will play well against your range and 2. c/f is bad because people peel a wide range on the flop don't necessarily match up very well. There is a way for your range to be effective by checking this turn and that way is by mixing in a little bit of every option when you do check.

Well since I c/r and c/c a bunch, and I c/f only sometimes I don't see the problem really. I'm not trying to be a dick either, I'm just trying to point out that your two points: 1. c/c here turns your hand face up and your opponent will play well against your range and 2. c/f is bad because people peel a wide range on the flop don't necessarily match up very well. There is a way for your range to be effective by checking this turn and that way is by mixing in a little bit of every option when you do check.

I just imagine it would be hard to have a balanced checking range in spots like these. Where would your threshhold for checkraising be? 88? A7? What about check calling? And i also suppose you would be check-calling twice with all of your turn c/c range?

I just imagine it would be hard to have a balanced checking range in spots like these. Where would your threshhold for checkraising be? 88? A7? What about check calling? And i also suppose you would be check-calling twice with all of your turn c/c range?

All of these questions are highly opponent dependent so it's really hard for me to give you a firm answer. I'll just say that I would be playing a lot of different hands in different manners here depending on who I'm playing against and what their mindset is in relation to mine in this spot. But as far as c/r goes, the thinnest I'd c/r against anyone is probably A7.

As far as your last question goes, your supposition is incorrect. And, in general any supposition where I do the same thing with my whole range (in a reasonably wide range situation) after doing something else will be incorrect.

All of these questions are highly opponent dependent so it's really hard for me to give you a firm answer. I'll just say that I would be playing a lot of different hands in different manners here depending on who I'm playing against and what their mindset is in relation to mine in this spot. But as far as c/r goes, the thinnest I'd c/r against anyone is probably A7.

As far as your last question goes, your supposition is incorrect. And, in general any supposition where I do the same thing with my whole range (in a reasonably wide range situation) after doing something else will be incorrect.

Ofcourse i know that you do different things varying on the diffent variables in the hand, be it your actual hand, your opponents tendencies etc. Was looking for more like the general way you think about these spots, because it differs from mine.

Ofcourse i know that you do different things varying on the diffent variables in the hand, be it your actual hand, your opponents tendencies etc. Was looking for more like the general way you think about these spots, because it differs from mine.

On this board texture against most thinking players I'd check sometimes with all kinds of hands intending to c/c c/r and c/f at frequencies that seem difficult for my opponent to deal with. I'd do this because I think checking the turn with a subset of hands is absolutely correct (one's without much value as a vb or as a bluff) and I feel that checking with a balanced range here is very difficult for my opponent to play well against.

Time Link to 00:36:28

I don't understand how betting KQ on this river is a value bet?

Will he ever call us with less (i.e. get value from worse hands)?

I do see how we might be able to get the same hand, or an ace high (with a REALLY weak player) to fold, but in that case it would be more of a bluff, right?

I don't understand how betting KQ on this river is a value bet?

Will he ever call us with less (i.e. get value from worse hands)?

I do see how we might be able to get the same hand, or an ace high (with a REALLY weak player) to fold, but in that case it would be more of a bluff, right?

OTR is suggesting villain would bet most of his ace high's on the turn for value, so KQ high is near the nuts, though I guess somewhat tough to get called. But people talk themselves into hero calls a lot. Obv from the results that wasn't necessarily true for this opponent

Time Link to 00:40:14

You say that you don't think this board connects well with these two EP limpers - what kind of range do you put these two on?

I don't have any reads on these players, but it seems to me that they may be limping with low suited aces, small pp's, and maybe low suited connecters? In which case, it would be connecting with this kind of board.

Time Link to 00:44:46

Maybe I'm missing something, but if you were able to edit this hand (change 55 to TJs) for this example in balance, why didn't you fix your two previous hand histories where your actual hand was completely different?

Sorry for the nitpick, the series has otherwise been great so far!

You say that you don't think this board connects well with these two EP limpers - what kind of range do you put these two on?

I don't have any reads on these players, but it seems to me that they may be limping with low suited aces, small pp's, and maybe low suited connecters? In which case, it would be connecting with this kind of board.

I think more like medium unsuited cards (K and Q high) and some weak Ax hands are more likely in these games. I think you're likely to see those pocket pairs and Ax type hands get raised from most semi-aggressive limpers in early position.

Maybe I'm missing something, but if you were able to edit this hand (change 55 to TJs) for this example in balance, why didn't you fix your two previous hand histories where your actual hand was completely different?

Sorry for the nitpick, the series has otherwise been great so far!

Honestly I'm not good enough with the video editing software to rerecord a part of the video and put it into the whole and I didn't want to rerecord the whole thing again. So... laziness?

Time Link to 00:48:44

Hey Jerms,

Assuming your opponent is competent and somewhat likely to delay his action till the turn (which is why we are imploring the strategy of checking often):

What would you be x/folding on the turn here?
Do you think your hand is close to a x/fold?

What does your preflop range look like in this spot? Im having trouble not making my actions overly value heavy whether its x/r or barrel. Do you have T9s or KJs in your range?

If we x/r AA, KK, AQ, 88, 66 for example, is x/r'ing just JhTh enough to balance that?

Would b/f'ing 77/99 be correct?

Would you prefer to b/c or x/c with TT? (assuming you wouldnt b/f that)

Time Link to 00:20:32

Question!

On this hand, if I took a cbet flop / x/c turn line (say the button bets the turn when we check), my range going into the river would be:

KK-QQ, KJ, QJ, JT, J9s, TT, 99, K8s, T8s, 98s, 87s
KQ, KT

The first problem I noticed with this range is that when a blank hits the river (eg. 2c), and our opponent barrels off, if we fold our UI Kq and KT, that equals a 3rd of our range combinatorially. When we are usually getting around 8-1 on the river that seems like a problem, is it not?

Here is how I came to that range:

My total range:
55+, A4s+, A8o+, K8s+, KTo+, QTs+, QJo, J9s+, T8s+, 98s, 87s, 76s

My turn barrel range: (hands I want to bet/3!(ak?), weaker Ax, some draws)
AA, JJ, 88,AK, AJ, A8, A7s-A4s,
Kh9h, QcTc, QsTs, Tc9c, Ts9s, 76s

My turn x/r range: (strong Ax, combo draws)
AQs, ATs-A9s, AQo, ATo-A9o,
QhTh, QdTd, Th9h, Td9d

my turn x/f range:
77-55, Kc9c, Kd9d, Ks9s


Anything that stands out as incorrect to you? or something youd do differntly?