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Poker Video: Limit Hold'Em by Entity (Mid Stakes)

Hey guys. I really liked this series.

Chuk,

You shouldn't insult your clients like that.

Signed,
Fishe

Hi guys,

At 16:50 of the video you advocate donking your flopped set of threes. I am curious why you did this as opposed to going for the check raise?

Thanks for a great series.

That AK hand starting at around 24:13. If you're saying you're folding 77-88 (out of your preflop cold-capping range) to the flop raise (which I guess you should do), I think it makes it profitable for the button to take a stab at it with any two. It's 13SB after you bet and the price is therefore 13:2 or 6,5:1. Out of your range 77-88 is 12 combos and I'm pretty sure your cold-capping range doesn't consist of 78 other combos. (If I got it right something like {77+, AK, AQ, AJs, ATs, KQs} would be 67 combos and I'm pretty sure you aren't cold-capping even that wide, right?)

Hi guys,

At 16:50 of the video you advocate donking your flopped set of threes. I am curious why you did this as opposed to going for the check raise?

Thanks for a great series.

bet/3betting is always better amirite?

loved the series guys

Hi guys,

At 16:50 of the video you advocate donking your flopped set of threes. I am curious why you did this as opposed to going for the check raise?

Thanks for a great series.

Because he was the sort of player who we expected to check with Ace high there a large portion of the time and to still raise all overpairs.

Rob

That AK hand starting at around 24:13. If you're saying you're folding 77-88 (out of your preflop cold-capping range) to the flop raise (which I guess you should do), I think it makes it profitable for the button to take a stab at it with any two. It's 13SB after you bet and the price is therefore 13:2 or 6,5:1. Out of your range 77-88 is 12 combos and I'm pretty sure your cold-capping range doesn't consist of 78 other combos. (If I got it right something like {77+, AK, AQ, AJs, ATs, KQs} would be 67 combos and I'm pretty sure you aren't cold-capping even that wide, right?)

That would only be assuming that 77 and 88 are 100% weighted in our cold-capping range there, and I'm not super inclined in that situation to cap with 77. 88 is close and I'd probably be more inclined to coldcall with it as well. Overall I'd give less than 6 combos of 77-88 that I will have there in that spot, especially when I bet the flop into two PFR'ing opponents. It's such a ridiculous parlay that even when things are perfectly aligned it's a bad play for him to be making.

It's such a ridiculous parlay that even when things are perfectly aligned it's a bad play for him to be making.

Yeah, I agree. I was prompted to quibble on this based on Chuck's comment. :-)

So this series was awesome and very fun to watch (although I'm sure no fun at all to make), but I don't get to see the video where Chuck 3-bet me like 70%?!? I've eagerly awaited each of the last three Tuesdays only to see another excellent video featuring non-Giant, non-Buddha villains.

I thought the Q9s 3-bet from BTN hand was pretty interesting. I don't think anyone ever folds an Ace there with the wheel draw (345 flop), but if you put KQ, KJ & KT in his peeling range it looks a lot closer. Ace highs still outnumber King highs like 8:3 (very rough math), so it looks like if he's never playing pairs WA/WB and always peeling KQ-KT, then a turn bet is profitable. I think that's sort of a big parlay and once you discount some things, checking's probably better.

Anyway, thanks for a great series and hopefully more LHE videos next season.

So this series was awesome and very fun to watch (although I'm sure no fun at all to make), but I don't get to see the video where Chuck 3-bet me like 70%?!? I've eagerly awaited each of the last three Tuesdays only to see another excellent video featuring non-Giant, non-Buddha villains.

I thought the Q9s 3-bet from BTN hand was pretty interesting. I don't think anyone ever folds an Ace there with the wheel draw (345 flop), but if you put KQ, KJ & KT in his peeling range it looks a lot closer. Ace highs still outnumber King highs like 8:3 (very rough math), so it looks like if he's never playing pairs WA/WB and always peeling KQ-KT, then a turn bet is profitable. I think that's sort of a big parlay and once you discount some things, checking's probably better.

Anyway, thanks for a great series and hopefully more LHE videos next season.

LOL I still want to release the video someday but I'm going to have to wait until Chuck isn't looking. Once he capped the river with J-high vs a fish with trip 7's it was all over for us.

PS - You played goot that video.

Rob

I don't mind when I bluff capped the river nearly as much as when i KNEW the guy had a K on a KTx and I tried to get him to fold it on the A turn.

Although that session pretty much proved that the games will forever be good.

Really enjoyed this series, hope you have plans to do another series together.

Although that session pretty much proved that the games will forever be good.

This attitude is a problem.

U are usin a lot of time to tell us how fishy everyone plays. As u are suppoused to be teachers/coaches in the video its bad for a number of reasons.

For someone trying to learn how to play well, every session should be a chance to learn something new. So when u guys talk like u have nothing to learn and dont respect anyone and are so cool and laughing and just outthinking everyone u are having the opposite attitude of how ur students should approach the game.

It really annoys me because u are so good at limit holdem and Im sure u are not using this childish attitude when u play at a limit where the money means something or when u are talking about how to play well with each other.

This attitude is a problem.

U are usin a lot of time to tell us how fishy everyone plays. As u are suppoused to be teachers/coaches in the video its bad for a number of reasons.

For someone trying to learn how to play well, every session should be a chance to learn something new. So when u guys talk like u have nothing to learn and dont respect anyone and are so cool and laughing and just outthinking everyone u are having the opposite attitude of how ur students should approach the game.

It really annoys me because u are so good at limit holdem and Im sure u are not using this childish attitude when u play at a limit where the money means something or when u are talking about how to play well with each other.

In general we try to focus on why a play is bad or what you should be paying attention to, but at the same time, poker is a game, and we have fun playing it and teaching it, and make no apologies for that whatsoever.

The session that Chuck is alluding to was an unaired video for the reason that you state; we realized that the video was a bit out of control and while it's true that it was a fun session and there were a lot of things that you could learn, it wasn't our best as far as education goes and as such, it was left on the cutting room floor.

Personally I believe that everyone, whenever possible, should be laughing and having fun while learning. It seems that you believe that the two are exclusionary which I just have to respectfully disagree with. When we laugh and say something was bad (KT9 board, guy raises our flop bet after we cap preflop and folds to a 3-bet), we explain why, not only in the video but in further detail in the thread if people have questions. You can still laugh, have fun, and actually provide educational content; if there were specific points or moments given the context of the video that you thought we could have done better, point them out by all means, but we're never going to be apologetic for enjoying ourselves while we record.

Rob

yep, i had only slept 2 hours when i wrote my post (my kid wakes me up at 7 and I had played poker until 5 in the morning) so im sorry if I was focusing on the bad parts of the video... it is still of course a very interesting video and i didnt fall asleep watching it (something I did 1 hour later reading Stoxs book and his handexampels which are really strange because he almost never use a read on the players... maybe he is so focused on playing balanced that he doesnt need a read, he is just focusing on playing unexploitable poker... but i dont understand how playing "unexploitable" can be done without a read unless u are the next generation of computers and can have all the math in ur head)

anyway, the reason I prefer Oinks videos before this one is that he is really playing poker for real when he is recording, he is having the attitude I would like myself to have while I play. And its not like Oink never is funny (his way of saying "spank you" after winning a decent pot against a bad player)...

that said, im sorry if i got out of line in my earlier post

This owned and made me take limit seriously.

Hey kiddo,

fwiw I completely agree with your general point that when playing, we shouldn't underestimate our opponents or think of them as clueless fish, we should do our best to see what they are doing well and how we can better play against them when we see them make mistakes. I think Entity and Danzasmack agree with that too, and I think Entity's point that playing good poker and having fun aren't mutually exclusive.

-DeathDonkey

Like Rob said, that comment had nothing to do with the session you saw in this vid - I was half making fun of myself and the way I played in a DIFFERENT session (the one GiantBuddha referred to) and 1/2 poking fun at the fact that there are now so many "well you can't" or "well you have to" rules in LHE despite what the math might in fact say. I made a couple of 1/100 plays in that vid that are never ever a bluff (except that 1/100) and saw people still calling down. The more I see things like this the more I nod my head in agreement even more when I see DeathDonkey post some sort of super exploitable play that nobody will ever exploit because they "have to check back there - he folds nothing!"

Fwiw having a laughing, casual attitude is what has helped me play good poker and be pretty good at anything I've ever actually been good at it. It is 110% a personal thing and don't expect everyone to relate at all.

TBH though there are a bunch of people that attitude really could help.

Think of the "John Candy" drive - the most famous drive in the history of the San Francisco 49ers. With the ball deep in their own territory, the team was huddled up during a tv time out. And what did Joe Montana do? Point down the field at the other end zone and say "hey, isn't that John Candy?"

92 yards later - touchdown.

Also, clearly not out of line in your post. Referencing multiple sessions in 1 vid is confusing. This session we got lucky with some good games in general.

Also, Rob, change your avatar.

Also I am NOT a 49ers fan.

Go Eli!

Also, Rob, change your avatar.

WTF, not a chance in hell.

I'm such a trouble maker...

I actually agree that the attitude of "ZOMG DonkeyFish!" is rather a turn off and non-constructive. However, I didn't feel like that was the tone of this video series at all. It was more of a "This guy plays well, so we're going to have to do blah blah blah [insert useful advice here] to take advantage of some of the spots where he may be weak. Except for GoldenHawk. But there's always going to be players like that somewhere.

Also, laughing's good for you.

Once he capped the river with J-high vs a fish with trip 7's it was all over for us.

PS - You played goot that video.

Rob

I posted this hand the night it was played in the Low Content thread in SS. WTF was going on there!?

I finally hit one of my own.
It's his kids he's talking about.

Zomfg so epic...

I finally hit one of my own.
It's his kids he's talking about.

Zomfg so epic...

That one I still laugh at.

Ok, who is good at the poker math?

Is there an equation for this proof?

"How much better does the video hafta be when it has Rob & Chuck in it at the same time if you get half as many videos as there'd be if they were making them separate?" I think it's 2.5 times, but I'm not sure how to show my work.

Ok, who is good at the poker math?

Is there an equation for this proof?

"How much better does the video hafta be when it has Rob & Chuck in it at the same time if you get half as many videos as there'd be if they were making them separate?" I think it's 2.5 times, but I'm not sure how to show my work.

A) The question is moot. I'd easily do 2x as many vids with Chuck as I would solo, it's just too much more fun and easier to record.

2) It needs to be 2.3x as good.

C) Is that John Candy?

I feel like Montana has some sort of chip on his shoulder - anyone else agree?

I feel like Montana has some sort of chip on his shoulder - anyone else agree?

All the great ones do.

FWIW guys it's the fact that you guys seem to have such fun playing the game and obviously enjoy talking about the game that makes the videos great to watch for me and actually makes the learning experience easier due to the fact that any "lesson" is madee easier when it's entertaining.

All the great ones do.

Disagree.

Hey guys,

Fantastic video.

I am a NL player, but was just browsing all the videos.

After watching this one, I watched all the others as well. Just awesome stuff.

Almost makes me want to play limit.

Time Link to 00:08:21

You mention that you don't mind donking in these situations once in a while. What would be your criteria for this and what other hands are you balancing this with?

Also, you mentioned that you would donk/calldown. Does the possibility that the villian may wait for the turn to raise change things and are you calling down from here always?

You mention that you don't mind donking in these situations once in a while. What would be your criteria for this and what other hands are you balancing this with?

Also, you mentioned that you would donk/calldown. Does the possibility that the villian may wait for the turn to raise change things and are you calling down from here always?

When I donk in this spot I'm not balancing much -- I'm taking a line that is exploitable but also very exploitative against players who I think are incredibly exploitable.

If I bet flop and he calls but he raises the turn, I'll usually call the turn but fold the river if he bets again, because the same sort of players who I'm taking this line against free showdown raise way too often, especially on boards where they can "put you on a draw."

Rob