---

Poker Video: No Limit Hold'Em by WiltOnTilt (Micro/Small Stakes)

second!

lol @ timing out

finally new skin

btw: everybody opens 4x on PartyPoker thats just "standard"!

thats complete standard on party ... im surprised that you dont got min raised ur asses of on flops party is the home of min raisin ...


nice vid overall as usual! keep on

getting bullied by nits sucks

watching the vid tilted me so bad... I hate party and will never play there because of this timing out stuff... good vid besides that as always

Holla! If I ever want to try speed poker, I'll be sure to check out Party (oh yea, I'm US). WoT should regale us with Party Poker stories somewhere, reading old 2+2 posts just isn't as good for trying to picture those greener pastures. On to business:

1) Around 40:00, 79s on BU, float AJJ flop, bet K turn: If villain check/calls the Turn, will we be looking to barrel the river often since he likely just has an A or K. Can we rep the J like this? If so, what size bet would be be looking at making? I'm guessing it would need to be fairly large.

2) Around 42:00, open AKo, get 3bet, 4bet and called 5bet shove vs KK. What if villain is an x/8- x/12, how often are you folding vs. getting it in? How tight of a raising range (and therefore and even tighter 3betting range) does villain need to have before we're seriously looking at just folding the AKo to the 3bet OOP? How much does this change if it is AKs? Suitedness usually only adds 3-4% equity, so I'd guess it doesn't make much of a difference as far as getting it in, but does it make calling a viable option?

lol WoT what is ur read on euro guys who play 25/10?

hey,
my experience of getting it in w AK is just bad. i find only rarely do i have the best of it. if you assign a 5betting range of range of AK+,QQ+ vs AK+, you are a 61:39 dog. best case scenerio is you got sufficient equity to call. pot is 145: need to call 55, 2.63:1, or 37% equity, excluding blinds. vs a tight player you are looking at QQ+ and are basically cooked, and you no longer have required equity in pot so why not fold? even against an unknown, who over a limited sample size wasn't playing crazy. i think u can infer that he was showing very tight characteristic play, and a fold was in order.

Hey I play on the ipoekr network (kinda similar to Party) and there are a ton of people who raise huge preflop with QQ,KK,AA. This is a lot more common than you realise and I think the Ace/king was a fold preflop rather than 4bet/shove.

Anyway pretty nice video but Party software does suck. It makes you fold everything when you dont want to

ZOMG, this was by far like the worst video i ever watched on DC.

How can you play tables like that? There is so many really nice tables on Party and you took two tables with almost only nits?wtf?

Actually, as it was already said, 4x is standard on PP, at least until 100NL that is. I also think, even the guys that sat on the table with you, that were pretty tight, caught up to your stealing tendencies pretty soon, especially opening smaller from BU&SB just won't work on party.


You guys ever heard about pokerstrategy.com? I guess some of those guys u played are some bad, nitty regs you caught there.

Actually, I just can't believe how you can overevaluate stats of players you played like 20-50 hands with, it certainly gives you a tendency, but you just took those stats for granted all over the session.

IMHO AKvsKK was not a cooler at all, it's just a clear fold oop against a tight opponent that 3bets you the first time.
QQ, though, was a cooler, usually they minraise/min4bet with AA there, QQ is definetely a snapcall there)

If you try 3betting some of the looser regs pretty light, they're gonna adjust really soon, especially if you try to make it so small, you're gonna get 4bet all the way.

I also think that some of the (mostly german) Party 100NL and above regs that learned poker on pokerstrategy.com might have a deuces cracked account, maybe not really the ones that you met on those two tables but otherwise i know a lot of 'em.

Actually I'm playing 100NL on party as a reg, and there are two more things i'd like to advise to alex: go ahead and get the betpotscript on overcards.com, that way you won't time out that often any more(works for both FT&PP. Second thing is to get Spadeeye and start Datamining(wich works with that program on either FT&PP, too, and you can also tableselect really efficently and you don't have to play aweful tables like those, where you have 4 nits and one fish sitting there with you)

Really liked this series until this video, but can't imagine what you guys were thinking there, party just is a little different from FT.

PS: IMHO as someonepointed out party poker being the home of minraises, my experience taught me, that actually FT(were I only played 25NL and 50NL) really was the home of minraising pre- and postflop) on party there are just some fish that really love to ship you their money that try minraising flops or so(at least thats my experience for most of the cases)

Very solid video as always.
EDIT: Nevermind, you already answered my question in the video.

Guys, sorry it took me a while to get to your questions. Will do better in the future.

xerocat:

1) Around 40:00, 79s on BU, float AJJ flop, bet K turn: If villain check/calls the Turn, will we be looking to barrel the river often since he likely just has an A or K. Can we rep the J like this? If so, what size bet would be be looking at making? I'm guessing it would need to be fairly large.

in general if he calls the turn I feel like he's not folding the river here. If he calls the turn with Kx it's because he doesnt believe we have Ax or Jx, i'm not so sure we can credibly expect him to fold on the river after calling the turn.

additionally, he's never ever folding an A here on the river when all the kickers chop.

2) Around 42:00, open AKo, get 3bet, 4bet and called 5bet shove vs KK. What if villain is an x/8- x/12, how often are you folding vs. getting it in? How tight of a raising range (and therefore and even tighter 3betting range) does villain need to have before we're seriously looking at just folding the AKo to the 3bet OOP? How much does this change if it is AKs? Suitedness usually only adds 3-4% equity, so I'd guess it doesn't make much of a difference as far as getting it in, but does it make calling a viable option?

if villain was like 20/8 and 3bet me when i'm utg with AK i think you can make a strong argument for just straight up folding preflop. if he's like 20/12 i think calling is a reasonable option. i certainly wouldn't be 4betting either of those guys with the intention of getting the money in, and 4betting AK to fold to a 5bet is silly based on the math and assumptions we would need to make to 4bet in the first place.

eperon:

lol WoT what is ur read on euro guys who play 25/10?

Too loose/passive in general, both preflop and postflop. 25% vpip isn't necessarily too loose in and of itself, but I feel like it's too loose given the aggression level preflop. These guys play too straight forward in general. There must be some euro book or site that teachs this style because it seems like I see a bunch of them whenever I coach on a euro site.

mostly I just play pretty straight up vs them except you can increase the aggression against some of them because of their weak tight tendencies. Clearly we wont be getting into any preflop wars with them, and postflop I would tend to not pay them off without very strong holdings.

sure it's kind of general advice but i think it pretty much holds true.

fireflyontilt:

hey,
my experience of getting it in w AK is just bad. i find only rarely do i have the best of it. if you assign a 5betting range of range of AK+,QQ+ vs AK+, you are a 61:39 dog. best case scenerio is you got sufficient equity to call. pot is 145: need to call 55, 2.63:1, or 37% equity, excluding blinds. vs a tight player you are looking at QQ+ and are basically cooked, and you no longer have required equity in pot so why not fold? even against an unknown, who over a limited sample size wasn't playing crazy. i think u can infer that he was showing very tight characteristic play, and a fold was in order.

You, like most, are forgetting a fundamental reason we're 4betting AK to begin with, and that's the fold equity of the play. You're not taking into consideration the times we take the pot preflop. if we're 4betting with the intention of folding, we might as well have 72o here, so if you think it's a 4bet then fold, we shouldn't be 4betting in the first place.

additionally you aren't considering the 3bet size of villain. i don't know how party poker plays these days because i'm american and can't play there, however on the american sites when you see a guy jack it up so big preflop he almost always has a less than premium hand, ie, not KK/AA nearly as often as other hands. He "levelled me" (ie made a non standard play) and showed up with KK there which I didn't expect given the pf bet size. it's quite possible they play differently on party poker in terms of preflop betsizing than the other sites, as also evidenced by the 4x open as a standard.

regardless, if we put JJ in his range some % of the time it's a fine stack off, even if it's QQ+ and AK it's basically neutral EV, and we don't know anything about the guy. From what my students tell me, the party poker games (at least at the mid and high stakes) play insane aggro preflop so based on all that I chose to go with the hand, and I really don't think it's particularly close.

the moral of the story is if you think you need fold to a 5bet you should probably not be 4betting to begin with unless the guy is the type who just 3bets a ton yet wont get the $ in light at all, which just doesn't seem consistent with how most people play. either they are nits and don't 3bet much and therefore wont get the $ in light or they are aggro regs who will 3bet a lot and are capable of getting the money in fairly light pf (as if JJ is light lol...) regardless when we don't know anything about the guy my natural inclination is to assume he's a monkey until proven otherwise, especially when I have a hand as strong as AK.

Q_caine:

ZOMG, this was by far like the worst video i ever watched on DC.

Thanks for the constructive feedback

How can you play tables like that? There is so many really nice tables on Party and you took two tables with almost only nits?wtf?

party software sucks. trying to record and switch tables and keep the audio going is not easy given their software and given the fact that we live half way around the world from each other.

Actually, as it was already said, 4x is standard on PP, at least until 100NL that is. I also think, even the guys that sat on the table with you, that were pretty tight, caught up to your stealing tendencies pretty soon, especially opening smaller from BU&SB just won't work on party.

ok

You guys ever heard about pokerstrategy.com? I guess some of those guys u played are some bad, nitty regs you caught there.

never heard of it, sounds awesome

Actually, I just can't believe how you can overevaluate stats of players you played like 20-50 hands with, it certainly gives you a tendency, but you just took those stats for granted all over the session.

it's certainly possible we did that. if we came across like we were using a 50 hand sample as gospel for some play then i apologize. we certainly shouldn't do that, and if you've watched the other videos in the series i'm certain we've mentioned similar thoughts about how we can only use those stats as a tendency only and not the sole reason for making a particular play.

IMHO AKvsKK was not a cooler at all, it's just a clear fold oop against a tight opponent that 3bets you the first time.

small sample on his tightness right? but we were "overevaluate stats of players you played like 20-50 hands with" all over the session right?

See my reply to firefly for more info.

Really liked this series until this video, but can't imagine what you guys were thinking there, party just is a little different from FT.

Well I was thinking "hey, i haven't played on party poker since the legislation, let's see how it plays and figure it out as we go" I don't know why it's so surprising to you that we weren't totally well informed about how the games play when alex mentioned he only played a couple thousand hands there and I haven't played there since the legislation was passed. Hopefully that clears it up.

Thanks for your reply, maybe I didn't quite find the right words in my comment about the video, but constructive feedback was easy to find by scrolling down just a little(at least I hope so)


I just couldn't imagine why to play those tables you had there.
That's why my suggestion was to use spadeeye(or PT3 tabletracker, which does pretty much the same but costs monthly fees/don't know if there are other table selection softwares out there), to just table select a little more.
IMO that is one of the key things to improve your winnings really fast, especially on low limits. Maybe you could talk about the importance of table selection in some videos or so, I feel it could help a lot of less advanced players.

It was pretty obvious(at least IMHO that is)that those tables just sucked, because I don't really like sitting on a table with 4 tags(not that they were the best players ever) and only one big fish. There are so many better tables you can find at PP.

About the stats:
I tend to take them for granted way too often, also, that's why I just wanted to write that, b/c this often is a major leak, people who use PT or HM have.

In your reply to xerocat, you said that you would prefer not to 4bet/call with AK there against 8 or 12 pfr guys, but that is just what you did. I think calling with AK out of position is by far the worst play, though. In BU vs CO or vs blinds I'll almost always just get it in preflop, too, especially being out of position. Calling is imo just an option when you are in position and you know he'll 3bet, but fold to a 4bet with a lot worse hands you dominate like AJ,AQ or KQ or whatever, because it will be by far easier to stack them with top pair than preflop.

I think in that special hand he just wanted to make you fold(or call for the wrong odds) with pocket pairs, which you could probably odds-call for set value to his 3bet(if he thought that far, and IIRC in my database he has pretty much tag stats), if he makes his 3bet too small. That is actually pretty much something they teach on that pokerstrategy.com site, where I am also signed up(Don't want to advertise, I mostly like the DC vids a lot more, that's why I signed up and b/c many guys in their forum recommend DC, especially for 100NL and higher). The biggest percentage of the guys on that site are german anyway, so if you see some german with tag stats(especially on party poker), you can be quite sure he learned how to play poker on that site(Do I just give away some good reads here?)

AK vs KK was against a nit ?he is horrible regular playing 20/16 3bet 7.5% and he 3bets 8% from co to BB so his range is wide here.

good video tho, some love for party poker

Q-caine: its an instructional video right? if my students sat at tables full of massive fish every coaching session they wouldnt learn very much. same applies here imo.