Poker Video: Pot-Limit Omaha by whitelime (Micro/Small Stakes)

Nice, you were able to get 2 interesting hands into this short. Looking forward to your next one.

You'd really play JJ97ds from any position? Doesn't the JJ make it a little junky for EP? What if you get 3B in position? Would you squeeze form the SB with this?

Time Link to 00:04:29

Whitelime,

I've played about 10K-20K hands of $0.05/$0.10 6MAX PLO and based on what I've experienced, assuming UTG is a typical player in these games, I think you are over-estimating the chance of our opponent turning [Qh][Xh] or two pair into a bluff on the river.

There are some players at this stake who may decide to turn those hands into a bluff in this spot, but I think that almost all our opponents will not even consider turning something into a bluff on the river here. I think the size of our opponent's bet also reduces the likelihood of it being a bluff. A large majority of players at this level would not fold [J][T] on the river in this spot in our position. If our opponent has played in these games before, I think it is unlikely that our opponent would expect us to fold [J][T] on the river for such a small bet.

I think the chance our opponent is turning something into a bluff in this spot is less than 20%. It is probably somewhere around 10%. Unless we think our opponent is much more aggressive than a typical player at this level, I do not think our opponent is bluffing often enough to make calling the highest EV decision, even though we are getting 4:1.

Thanks for the micro-stakes strategy discussion!

Time Link to 00:14:53

Whitelime,

I'm confused with the conclusion you draw about what the best play is when we hit the club flush on the river, based on the points you bring up.

You said the best line when we hit the spade flush is to bet-fold (this line makes a lot of sense to me).

I'm confused as to what is different when we hit the club flush. Why is bet-folding when we make the club flush not also the best line?

You said our opponent's range after calling two streets likely includes many hands with decent showdown value (like a set or a straight) that our opponent will be happy to check back the river with. Given the stakes, it seems likely that many opponents will make a stubborn call on a river club with a straight.

When discussing what to do if we hit the spade flush, you said we don't expect our opponent to bluff-raise on that river. So, shouldn't we expect our opponent to not bluff-raise a river club as well? Most opponents will only raise us on a river club with the nut or 2nd nut flush.

It seems that the above premises lead to bet-folding being the highest +EV play. We can bet to get value from straights, and easily fold to a raise being almost certain we are beat.

Why do you think check-calling is more +EV than bet-folding on a river club?

Thanks for your help!

You'd really play JJ97ds from any position? Doesn't the JJ make it a little junky for EP? What if you get 3B in position? Would you squeeze form the SB with this?

Interesting questions.

I was also a little surprised at the advice to open it from up front. Seems like a standard open from the CO or later, and from the HJ if the players left to act are tight. I haven't watched it recently but Episode One of 2x6 talks about the weaknesses of paired hands, and if my memory is accurate, it seemingly advises against playing such a hand from up front (but [J][T][J][9] we should open even UTG).

If I opened this hand and was 3-bet by the CO or BTN (assuming 100BB stacks), I would probably fold unless: the 3-bet was min, my opponent's 3-betting range is only AAxx, or if my opponent seems very inexperienced and plays poorly in 3-bet pots.

It doesn't seem like a great idea to be squeezing middle pairs from the SB, unless it was a premium hand like [J][T][J][9]. Although, it may be more profitable to flat-call such a hand given it's strength in multi-way pots.

I'm confused as to what is different when we hit the club flush. Why is bet-folding when we make the club flush not also the best line?
...
Given the stakes, it seems likely that many opponents will make a stubborn call on a river club with a straight.

Really? I've seen stubborn calls with baby flushes in that situation, but not with anything less. Even at microstakes, I think most players respect a flopped flush draw coming in on the turn or river.

Really? I've seen stubborn calls with baby flushes in that situation, but not with anything less. Even at microstakes, I think most players respect a flopped flush draw coming in on the turn or river.

From what I've experienced at $0.05/$0.10, mostly on Stars, a majority of players will usually not fold a straight in that spot, depending on our bet size. How much are you planning to bet if we hit the club flush? I think that if we lead for around a pot sized bet, then we won't be called by a straight often (but there are a decent number of players in that game that would call a pot sized lead). If we bet out for around 1/2 pot, I think a majority of players in that game will usually call us with a straight.

Even if we think are opponent will call only sometimes with a straight, if we think our opponent is not capable of bluff-raising the river, then why not bet out, get called by a straight sometimes, and fold to a raise (losing the same amount we would if we check and our opponent bets <60% pot and we call [we are planning to check-fold to a bigger bet])?

Nice, you were able to get 2 interesting hands into this short. Looking forward to your next one.

You'd really play JJ97ds from any position? Doesn't the JJ make it a little junky for EP? What if you get 3B in position? Would you squeeze form the SB with this?

JJ is still a desirable pair. I think 88 or 99 is where you start to get indifferent between 8876 or 8765. If you looked in your database, you'd probably find that JJT9 actually wins more than JT98. JJ97ds is profitable from any position.

Whitelime,

I'm confused with the conclusion you draw about what the best play is when we hit the club flush on the river, based on the points you bring up.

You said the best line when we hit the spade flush is to bet-fold (this line makes a lot of sense to me).

I'm confused as to what is different when we hit the club flush. Why is bet-folding when we make the club flush not also the best line?

You said our opponent's range after calling two streets likely includes many hands with decent showdown value (like a set or a straight) that our opponent will be happy to check back the river with. Given the stakes, it seems likely that many opponents will make a stubborn call on a river club with a straight.

When discussing what to do if we hit the spade flush, you said we don't expect our opponent to bluff-raise on that river. So, shouldn't we expect our opponent to not bluff-raise a river club as well? Most opponents will only raise us on a river club with the nut or 2nd nut flush.

It seems that the above premises lead to bet-folding being the highest +EV play. We can bet to get value from straights, and easily fold to a raise being almost certain we are beat.

Why do you think check-calling is more +EV than bet-folding on a river club?

Thanks for your help!

It's easier to value the spade flush b/c you're less likely to have it. On top of that, he's more likely to have a bigger club draw than a bigger spade draw than you. There's just less value to betting a club.

If you guys have any specific PLO threads or questions you want me to talk about, let me know and I'll check it out for the next few shorts.

JJ is still a desirable pair. I think 88 or 99 is where you start to get indifferent between 8876 or 8765. If you looked in your database, you'd probably find that JJT9 actually wins more than JT98. JJ97ds is profitable from any position.

Thinking about episode one of 2x6, I'm not sure why JJT9 is more valuable than JT98.

Is the value of hands like JJ97ds and TT89 from flopping a set, and set + wraps (or set + flush draw)? This is worth more than the greater wrap potential of a hand like JT98?

Thanks for your help Whitelime! I'm going to loosen up

i think you gave out incorrect math and the original poster who mentioned 25% was correct. $9 pot opponents bets $3, your getting 4-1 ($12 pot $3 to call) not 5-1 correct? you said $9 pot plus his $3 bet, plus your $3 call makes it a total of 15 / 3 =5 ? you don't include your call of $3 in the price right? was surprised nobody corrected this which makes me wonder if i'm on some BS.

4:1 = 20%
5:1 would be 16.6%

Say you make that river call 5 times. 4 out of 5 (=80%) times you lose $3. 1 out of 5 times (=20%) you win $12. So 20% would be the exact breakeven point.