anaconda disease
57 posts
Joined 09/2010
hey andrew
nice video as per usual one question however
what size should our raise be on the flop in general and when would we adjust it up and down
eg vilian opens 3bbs from BTN
we call in BB. flop is xxx
we check villian bets 4bbs we raise to????
Posted about 1 year ago
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kobe24poker
198 posts
Joined 11/2008
Time Link to 00:15:41
Andrew,
Awesome video, had to pause and re-listen to the numerous amounts of good content!
You stated that we can raise small as a bluff because we are looking to make them fold air + hands that don't hit such as (77 on JT3 board -I think was the example board you provided). So when you make this small raise is it 3 times the original bet or is that even too much? If they have a smaller stack do you tend not to c/r bluff, I assume.
Can you explain when you might flex your raise smaller vs larger when you don't have a made hand. Or is it always pretty much going to be smaller raise?
Posted about 1 year ago
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Some random guy
31 posts
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Prologion
2079 posts
Joined 03/2010
BalugaWhale
997 posts
Joined 01/2008
hey andrew
nice video as per usual one question however
what size should our raise be on the flop in general and when would we adjust it up and down
eg vilian opens 3bbs from BTN
we call in BB. flop is xxx
we check villian bets 4bbs we raise to????
Well, as with any bet sizing choice, if we go smaller the price is cheaper but our opponent has better odds. If we go larger, it's more expensive so our opponent has worse odds.
So, if I think my opponent doesn't like to flat raises OOP, i'd go small. If i thought he does, I might go larger.
Hope that helps,
Andrew
Posted about 1 year ago
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BalugaWhale
997 posts
Joined 01/2008
I have a question about what you say at 2:50 in the video, that opponents unwilling to double-barrel should be your cue to raising the flop. They are not going to put in more money if they don't improve and you don't want to give theam a chance to realize their equity. That seems reasonable considering value-raising. When it comes to bluffing though, it seems like this opponent will give us a great opportunity to float the flop and steal when he checks all his air on the turn. Well, I guess we can raise our value-hands and float with bluffs until he finds out and then switch ranges
.
Well, we're trying to get the same range to fold whether we raise the flop or float the flop, except sometimes that range improves on the turn (making it harder to fold). On the other hand, sometimes our opponent folds stronger hands on the turn than the flop. So, you have to make a judgment. Saying "but it's so easy when I know he's just check-folding the turn a lot!" isn't really productive if he's folding to a flop raise just as easily.
Andrew
Posted about 1 year ago
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anaconda disease
57 posts
Joined 09/2010
Well, we're trying to get the same range to fold whether we raise the flop or float the flop, except sometimes that range improves on the turn (making it harder to fold). On the other hand, sometimes our opponent folds stronger hands on the turn than the flop. So, you have to make a judgment. Saying "but it's so easy when I know he's just check-folding the turn a lot!" isn't really productive if he's folding to a flop raise just as easily.
Andrew
oh so floating is better when our opponet will second barrell bluff because then we can raise turn or double float and get them to fold on later street. where as against this agro guy raising would suck because we allow them to play more perfectly and not bluff later with his air. this is unless ofcourse we have no equity then raising is clearly better. is this right??
2 more questions sorry
at small stakes where people generall dont fire mutliple barrell bluffs is raising generall going to be a more common responce?
in regards to bet sizing again in general what size would you start with min raise??
Posted about 1 year ago
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BalugaWhale
997 posts
Joined 01/2008
oh so floating is better when our opponet will second barrell bluff because then we can raise turn or double float and get them to fold on later street. where as against this agro guy raising would suck because we allow them to play more perfectly and not bluff later with his air. this is unless ofcourse we have no equity then raising is clearly better. is this right??
2 more questions sorry
at small stakes where people generall dont fire mutliple barrell bluffs is raising generall going to be a more common responce?
in regards to bet sizing again in general what size would you start with min raise??
assuming that they are aggressive on the flop (and preflop) then yes, raising is probably better than floating. However, the problem in small stakes is that people often have tight ranges and aren't very aggressive, so its usually better to just get out of their way.
raise size-- there is no "right" starting point. Start with a minraise if you want, but just pay attention to how your opponents respond to it.
Andrew
Posted about 1 year ago
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Ass Get to Jigglin
4273 posts
Joined 10/2010
Well, we're trying to get the same range to fold whether we raise the flop or float the flop, except sometimes that range improves on the turn (making it harder to fold). On the other hand, sometimes our opponent folds stronger hands on the turn than the flop. So, you have to make a judgment. Saying "but it's so easy when I know he's just check-folding the turn a lot!" isn't really productive if he's folding to a flop raise just as easily.
Andrew
Vs. a player unwilling to double barrel, a flop raise is also more expensive than a float. Even if you are trying to make him fold the same range whether you are floating or raising: when you raise the flop you are putting in the money for a call plus extra money for a raise. But you are facing the part of his range you want him to fold and the part you don't expect him to fold (his value hands). But when you float, you only put in the money for a call and get away from his value range when he bets again on the turn, and when he checks, you are only facing his air hands and take the pot away almost every time.
Isn't this a consideration?
Posted about 1 year ago
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BalugaWhale
997 posts
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Vs. a player unwilling to double barrel, a flop raise is also more expensive than a float. Even if you are trying to make him fold the same range whether you are floating or raising: when you raise the flop you are putting in the money for a call plus extra money for a raise. But you are facing the part of his range you want him to fold and the part you don't expect him to fold (his value hands). But when you float, you only put in the money for a call and get away from his value range when he bets again on the turn, and when he checks, you are only facing his air hands and take the pot away almost every time.
Isn't this a consideration?
of course its a consideration, the same way "what if he has a c/c range?" is a consideration.
Basically, the price of raising vs floating ends up being pretty similar, but they have different effects.
Andrew
Posted about 1 year ago
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