mikimiki88
79 posts
Joined 01/2010
Time Link to 00:10:08
So you v beting KT and folding(in villain shoes) JT?Even if villain is caling with JT+ we propably dont heve 50% eq vs caling range.You just asume that villain will make here mistake a lot?
I guess you just think that we have the best hand so often that we kind of freeroling when betting right?
Another adventage od beting KT is the fact that we can bluff more but it seems to safisticated to has a lot of impact on this decision.
When playing you propably should astimate (quite well) calling range for your opponent thats make KT value bet,Do you do this only by feel or make some qiuck math?
Posted over 1 year ago
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betgo
24 posts
Joined 11/2010
I don't play high stakes cash, but I am not crazy about the 3-bet. You have a quality hand, but maybe not strong enough to get allin with. Don't think you would be happy with a 4-bet. Then you have pretty much what you are representing, high cards. The middle card flop is bad to represent on as the reraiser, even if it is rainbow. Think there are some problems with the whole approach of 3-betting this hand OOP, which influence the big spew. Would rather 3-bet a suited connector, which connects with more flops and is misreprented when you 3-bet.
Posted over 1 year ago
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Ansky
470 posts
Joined 08/2009
I'd rather 3bet and decide vs a 4b then not 3bet.
You will get called by literally every suited ace, every 2 broadway cards, J7s-JTs,
While I might also 3bet a lot of suited connectors here, AJ is simply a better hand. You are completely fooling yourself if you think that 3betting middle cards "misrepresents" your hand. It is 2012, nobody rules out 64s when you 3bet. The connectedness and suitedness of something like 64s or 78s is nice, but is not more powerful than the very simple equity edge that AJ has over your opponents hand when called, and the fact that flopping top pair w/ AJ in a 3b pot in HU nl w/ 100bbs is usually a monster.
Posted over 1 year ago
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Ass Get to Jigglin
4273 posts
Joined 10/2010
Ansky
470 posts
Joined 08/2009
Dublimax
152 posts
Joined 02/2011
interesting hand but the thing i spent the most amount of time thinking after the analysis was the preflop 3b sizing. 
i calculated this in a scenario where in short handed game bu opens to 8$, hero 3bets to 32 and bb folds.
so if i did the math right, when hero makes it 32 pre, villain needs to fold 71,43% of the time for hero to break even with the resteal (only looking at the preflop numbers ofc). If hero makes it 28 pre, the number goes down to 68,42%. Do you feel that the difference is as significant as you stated in video? Since i'd estimate that the button's playback frequency might also go down by the needed 3% hence making it exactly the same.
Posted over 1 year ago
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donkrx
68 posts
Joined 02/2012
interesting hand but the thing i spent the most amount of time thinking after the analysis was the preflop 3b sizing. 
I wouldn't be focused on preflop that much, but that's just my opinion ............ for one there's just never that much money to be made preflop, I mean look at it objectively - its not hard to play 2 cards, so even if your opponent is making a mistake its just never going to be a significant one. Also, as it seems you suggested, if you lower raise sizes preflop you're going to change what happens postflop.... that can be OK, but you just have to actually be aware of that and how it changes your winrate overall. For example, some players might see the smaller 3bet and decide to call you down more often because they think its weak (they could be playing better against you on accident / for the wrong reasons)... so you lose profitability on your postflop bluffs, things like that. Losing just a teeny bit of profitability on your barreling attempts (when the pots are huge), or hell even just a cbet bluff, is a lot bigger deal than getting a really small edge preflop when the pots are small.
Posted about 1 year ago
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donkrx
68 posts
Joined 02/2012
Time Link to 00:17:52
If we think its kind of a stretch for him to call with JT, then why would we be betting AT here?
If we do bet AT, are we sort of merging our range or something weird like that? Or what is the reason for it? Because I think the logic behind our opponent's call here was "well its either nuts or nothing" (which is what people mostly seem to be saying to themselves in these full pot river all-in spots these days), so my JT is as good as T2. If he really is thinking like that, which is arguable/feasible if he is a 2/4 reg, then we could be betting AT for value ......... but if he is not, then its a mistake.
So my question then becomes: would it be worth it to jam AT for value on the river against an unknown 6max player?
Posted about 1 year ago
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Ansky
470 posts
Joined 08/2009
interesting hand but the thing i spent the most amount of time thinking after the analysis was the preflop 3b sizing. 
i calculated this in a scenario where in short handed game bu opens to 8$, hero 3bets to 32 and bb folds.
so if i did the math right, when hero makes it 32 pre, villain needs to fold 71,43% of the time for hero to break even with the resteal (only looking at the preflop numbers ofc). If hero makes it 28 pre, the number goes down to 68,42%. Do you feel that the difference is as significant as you stated in video? Since i'd estimate that the button's playback frequency might also go down by the needed 3% hence making it exactly the same.
I think 28 is slightly better but I am not certain of it. I don't think about pf sizing too often in terms of exact hands, I think it's just a balance thing here, and for my whole range I'd prefer to 3b a liiiiiitle smaller.
Posted about 1 year ago
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Ansky
470 posts
Joined 08/2009
If we think its kind of a stretch for him to call with JT, then why would we be betting AT here?
If we do bet AT, are we sort of merging our range or something weird like that? Or what is the reason for it? Because I think the logic behind our opponent's call here was "well its either nuts or nothing" (which is what people mostly seem to be saying to themselves in these full pot river all-in spots these days), so my JT is as good as T2. If he really is thinking like that, which is arguable/feasible if he is a 2/4 reg, then we could be betting AT for value ......... but if he is not, then its a mistake.
So my question then becomes: would it be worth it to jam AT for value on the river against an unknown 6max player?
If jamming AT is break even I'd do it 100% of the time. I think it's more important to side on the side of thin vbets for balance, so at least you can bluff more credibly in that situation.
I think AT is still a v slightly profitable jam because he probably usually calls with KT and sometimes calls JT and random Tx hands or even worse.
Posted about 1 year ago
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flatbreadpizza
1 posts
Joined 12/2012