Poker Video: Limit Hold'Em by DeathDonkey (High Stakes)

This episode was the best so far IMO. It's so cool that two great players can disagree on every single hand. Feels like Mike is getting comfortable now and really grilling DD (who is grilling back. Can u say that in enlgish?).

Like I mentioned last week it would be cool to see mike play a session. I guess his different style from the BB will mean totally different post-flop situations. Also since Mike like the FSDR that would be good to see in action too.

I must say I really like that mike has joined the team, because I think his style differs the most from the rest of the DC-coaches. Do you guys agree on that?

I must say I really like that mike has joined the team, because I think his style differs the most from the rest of the DC-coaches. Do you guys agree on that?

Not only is this true it's the main reason this is such an awesome series.

When one coach is on the mic there is a massive temptation by the viewer, no matter the intention, to simply mimick what is being seen on screen.

Now DD and mikel do differ in places (example re: capping pre-flop...DD advocates not capping OOP HU as a balance and mikel iirc was bascially taking the line "This guy's horrible and not trying to hand read so balance doesn't really matter as much as getting the 4th bet in" so this gets the viewer thinking about exploitation vs balance) but what this does is create a situation where the viewer is presented with options rather than a set pattern, which leads to thinking and not mimicking.

Anytime there's a disagreement or opposite views from two coaches on the same play they are the videos I learn the most from becasue you then have to find your answer.

Hi, guys. AngusMcG here!
Great videoseries. I like the way you dissect spesific hands, and get deep in the analysis. Makes for greater learning, snd is fun to watch!
I dont remember this session, I tried to find the handhistories, but they were lost on my old computer. Would be fun to see my holecards for the hands that didn't go to showdown. It seems I'm starting to gather some steam... don't like it! but whatever... I'm really looking forward to more of this series. Will it be more from same session? Thanks alot guys, and keep it up!

As played, I think I'd call down with AJ on the last hand. It just seems like the type of spot where a guy like alltimel0w is just going to keep firing with K, Q or even worse A highs because he doesn't know what to do on the river. We've already seen him fire with a kind of hopeless hand (QJ on the KTxxK board when we had AQ) and this seems like the kind of spot that's even more likely to elicit hopeless firing of the river because he's out of position.

Another thing I'm thinking about is that he's exactly the kind of guy who thinks that you may have a flush draw that missed and will fire that last barrel with hands that he thinks don't have much sd value without thinking too much whether you'll ever fold A high or whatever. His range is so polarized on the river and you're getting 8-1 or so to call. Just show down and let him show you a pair or whatever most of the time.

I'm not so sure about raising the turn. I'd have to think about it some more. He's obviously calling with some hands that we beat like Kdx or Qdx or even some A high type hands. So there is some value there. He's not threebetting without a flush ever, and it obviously helps that we have the A of trump, so we get to sd unimproved for two bets almost always. One great thing about raising the turn is that when he has a sd type hand we always get three bets in when we hit another diamond where by playing it passively he'll often just c/c the river with whatever pair or A high he wants to sd.

Thinking about it a bit more, in this particular spot, given that I think we should show down, I kind of like the turn raise.

Another very good video. I agree with sushi and boomer that the different perspectives given by Chris and Mike are really valuable.

I disagree with the JT hand and in particular with the belief that because DD showed down a really strong hand previously that Angus is more inclined to give him credit and lay down a marginal hand (like AT). I think that Angus is very likely to get to showdown with a wide range because:
(1) The fact that you just won a big pot off of him will make him subconsciously want to try to get his money back, and will have his mind leaning toward thin calldowns.
(2) You already have a good sense at this point that he fights for pot and doesn't give up pots easily. If he has T9, I would expect him to have 3bet you on the turn and if you called he would have barrelled the river.
(3) The fact that you *just* won the big pot the last hand is going to make him think you *don't* have a big hand because our minds believe that freak events (such as having a big hand in poker) don't happen successively. (Basically, when we try to model random events, we tend to space them out more evenly than actual randomness. For example, if you ask people to put down a random sequence of heads and tails, they will be more likely to have exactly 5 H's and 5 T's than a random sequence would, they are less likely to string together 3 H's or 3 T's than would happen in a random sequence etc.) So his mind is conditioned to think that you don't have another monster.
(4) He presumably understands pot odds well enough to realize he is getting a decent price at this point and that your range is polarized between strong hands (Kx) and semibluffs. That's exactly why you are right later when you consider check/raising QT on the KcTc4c - Kx turn. The turn check/raise reaction from a showdown oriented LAG is "oh well, he might have got me for another bet, or he's making a move, let me see which it is" or "lol i was going to raise this turn, i am either saving a bet or he's making a move, let me see which it is."

So overall I dislike your check/raise with JT and would prefer either barrelling or just check/folding. I think you have an awesome spot to check/raise JJ, especially if you believe he won't 3bet Kx (though he was a bit "value spewy" so I don't know if that is a good assumption or not) and/or you believe he will get way out of line with his turned draws.

sweetjazzisright

Hi, guys. AngusMcG here!
Great videoseries. I like the way you dissect spesific hands, and get deep in the analysis. Makes for greater learning, snd is fun to watch!
I dont remember this session, I tried to find the handhistories, but they were lost on my old computer. Would be fun to see my holecards for the hands that didn't go to showdown. It seems I'm starting to gather some steam... don't like it! but whatever... I'm really looking forward to more of this series. Will it be more from same session? Thanks alot guys, and keep it up!

Well hi Angus / Ziigmund,

Hopefully we aren't too tough on you, as its very easy sometimes to dissect hands when you have all day to debate each play, and I hopefully mentioned early in the season that I make tons and tons of mistakes 3 handed and just hopefully not too many enormous ones. I actually have like a full hour more of this session recorded to work from (Mike and I could easily do 12 episodes from it we love to ramble) but we might let Mike play some and switch it up towards the end

I liked the idea of doing a continuous session so we could hopefully see some good adjustments on my part, and also just the ebb and flow of the money / tilt / fun as we played a pretty long 3 and 4 handed session with that other guy.

DD,

I am only half way through this vid. But I have to stop and write you now before I forget.

on the not 3 betting from the BB, You have taught me enough poker that I can say with confidence,

you are just being stubborn here. Mike is correct. you should be 3 betting more vs this guy, and perhaps in other spots you play.
Balance is not that big a factor vs this guy, and you know that. Plus balance is only one factor to be weighed in your decision.
You are giving away too much value, by limiting your options.
You are an excellent player, why limit your options and give some of your edge back?

wow, You guys are awesome.

Please do more of these.
And Mike, if you can find time, please make a stand alone vid of you playing.

this might be the best series, ever.

On the first hand worthy of lengthy discussion, the Q9 hand, I would almost never check the ace on the turn, especially not super-shorthanded at mid-stakes:

1) I almost always have the best hand.
2) The pot might be smallish, but if the opponent does rarely leads the river with the worse hand, all I have done is unnecessarily given a free card and put myself in a tough spot where I find it hard to make money on the river - because too much of my turn checking range is inducing bluffs and not enough hands that just simply give up.
3) I want bet that ace turn without having my range being heavily polarized between at least a pair of aces and draws without showdown value (or total air).
4) I do not want my opponents to peel flops light. I want them to believe that a call on the flop is frequently going to be followed by turn and river barrels (if they start to c/c-c/r, that's fine, I'll deal with that later).

Basically, I really like a turn bet because it puts the opponent in a really crappy spot - a measly pair of 8s can catch a bluff, but my value betting range is now thin enough that calling down with such a hand is really marginal, perhaps even -EV.

On that AJ hand, what can you credibly represent if you just call the flop CR and raise the 10d on 642 two diamond turn? Even in the mind of a poor playing player he`s probably going to assume that you would 3bet 1010 on that flop, and any two suited cards that you would cap preflop. And even though we have good equity against alot of his range, unless he has aces or a set we have around 11-14 outs, but whatever he has, he`s never folding it.

I'm 100% with Mike on the Q9 hand on the flop of 8cJcQd-Ace on turn, in the beginning of the video. There a million draws, rarely any Ace-peels, and a ton of value. Are you ever peeling with an naked Ace here? No. The board is not paired, there aren't any low cards (typical Ace-peel flop), and you must bet, every time and call a raise, no brainer, imo.

DD, please keep this series with you playing, and let mikel play the next series!

I actually have like a full hour more of this session recorded to work from (Mike and I could easily do 12 episodes from it we love to ramble) but we might let Mike play some and switch it up towards the end

I really love the idea of making the full episode, for the reasons u give. How about letting mike visit Joe on "late night coachig", or making a ghost video with you being a ghostbuster?

Mike, if you can find time, please make a stand alone vid of you playing.

You know one already exists? But yeah, more please.

I'm 100% with Mike on the Q9 hand on the flop of 8cJcQd-Ace on turn, in the beginning of the video. There a million draws, rarely any Ace-peels, and a ton of value. Are you ever peeling with an naked Ace here? No. The board is not paired, there aren't any low cards (typical Ace-peel flop), and you must bet, every time and call a raise, no brainer, imo.

Well I did end up agreeing that its a bet, but I think you are wrong that people don't peel here with an Ace that often, I think a ton of online guys peel here with any Ax. Is it a good play? Not at all, but it happens.

Well I did end up agreeing that its a bet, but I think you are wrong that people don't peel here with an Ace that often, I think a ton of online guys peel here with any Ax. Is it a good play? Not at all, but it happens.

But you should have no fear of betting. It's not close. If flop was 7c2cQ, sure, 8c8dQ, OK, 22Q, most def, but the flop 8cJcQd, you couldn't find more draws unless this was PLO, and you must bet and call a raise and not have to think about it all that much.

On that AJ hand, what can you credibly represent if you just call the flop CR and raise the 10d on 642 two diamond turn? Even in the mind of a poor playing player he`s probably going to assume that you would 3bet 1010 on that flop, and any two suited cards that you would cap preflop. And even though we have good equity against alot of his range, unless he has aces or a set we have around 11-14 outs, but whatever he has, he`s never folding it.

It's a value raise not a bluff.

Well I did end up agreeing that its a bet, but I think you are wrong that people don't peel here with an Ace that often, I think a ton of online guys peel here with any Ax. Is it a good play? Not at all, but it happens.

I think if hands like T8 hadn't turned a doublegutter, it's a lot more reasonable for you to consider checking back, but there are just too many light peels that turned bigger draws that you stand to get value from but can't really induce bluffs vs.

It's a value raise not a bluff.

What hand could this particular player possibly have that we beat on that board? The only bluff we`ve seen him make is 3barreling JQ on K10xxx. Which mike and DD agreed that only the river bet is bad, and that hand isnt exactly played wildly aggressive. He`s been passive up until this point, and now we cap preflop and he checkraises us on this flop and leads the turn. Am i really that pessimistic about his range here, i really dont see any value in a raise here.

So do you think we should call the river unimproved? If not, fine. But if you're going to call down I think you should raise the turn.

I disagree with the JT hand and in particular with the belief that because DD showed down a really strong hand previously that Angus is more inclined to give him credit and lay down a marginal hand (like AT). I think that Angus is very likely to get to showdown with a wide range because:
(1) The fact that you just won a big pot off of him will make him subconsciously want to try to get his money back, and will have his mind leaning toward thin calldowns.

great point and super prominent tilty thinking you will see a lot in these games. well said.

My opinion on the AJ hand. I think the river is close either way, and I wouldn't lose sleep on it regardless of what you did. I would usually never fold AJ unimproved in such a big pot, especially when the board pairs. But like you already said, how often is he check-raising the flop as a bluff (which is not a flush draw)? I think with his MutB syndrome, he has as least a flush when he bets the river here.

I also hate the a turn raise, as he is never folding a better hand. Since he pretty much never has a worse hand.