Poker Video: MTT by Skitz0Frenik (Mid Stakes)

MTT: Skitz0Frenik (#5) - 8-tabling 18 man SnGs

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MTT: Skitz0Frenik (#5) - 8-tabling 18 man SnGs by Skitz0Frenik

Skitz0Frenik does 8-tables of $16 18 man Turbo SnGs and discusses all the action and the differences between these and 9 man turbos.

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skitz0frenik mtt turbo SNGs 18man $16 8-tabling

Video Details

  • Game: mtt
  • Stakes: Mid Stakes
  • 53 minutes long
  • Posted almost 4 years ago

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Comments for MTT: Skitz0Frenik (#5) - 8-tabling 18 man SnGs

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imakeutilt

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435 posts
Joined 06/2010

Hypnotic Clambake

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5 posts
Joined 06/2008

Time Link to 00:28:16

"We can't be upset...because we've made all the correct decisions."

Tilt control in practice... So, more runbad (or any other) videos from Skitz please!

From the very beginning, his commentary focused more on the "meta aspects" of the game and the big picture of playing professionally than on the hands themselves.

Then, demonstrating aloud the type of composure required to play these games professionally proved more valuable to me than any particular hand history or even "theory of tilt control" lecture ever could.

Posted almost 4 years ago

rubbishaka80

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555 posts
Joined 07/2007

Time Link to 00:16:39

Black table 4: QTs blind vs blind for 13bb. I'd shove this all day. It's unexploitable, and I don't see a limp-stab to be any more +EV. Especially if you want to make your decisions easier while multitabling.

Posted almost 4 years ago

rubbishaka80

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555 posts
Joined 07/2007

I really liked this video. Good call on the 8-tabling in different colors.

Posted almost 4 years ago

rubbishaka80

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555 posts
Joined 07/2007

Time Link to 00:46:13

If you call and lose here, you give up the chip lead. The regular should push relatively narrow since he is giving you pretty good odds to call and he has a lot to lose being the 3rd stack.

Are there any merits to folding this? You can abuse the bubble further, but if you lose, the other player could do the same thing.

As it went down, he didn't push the next hand and relinquished the lead again.

Posted almost 4 years ago

topnotchspot

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2 posts
Joined 10/2010

Time Link to 00:27:01

Top Right - AQs Hand. What if you had a trashier hand? Say j5/q2.

Would you fold, and let the BB hit you next round on a random hand? What are your requirements there?

Posted almost 4 years ago

StumptownJason

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4 posts
Joined 10/2010

Time Link to 00:20:29

would you mind going into the limp in upper right (black) w/ KQcc with 7bb? Interesting play.
Thanks for the vid, btw. The format is great, and your insight is very clear.

Posted almost 4 years ago

jaimestaples

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1438 posts
Joined 08/2010

Time Link to 00:20:24

Ya i would also like to here about the complete on table 2 with kq. I feel like i would shove alot especially against those stats. Is that to wide to shove with not alot of fold equity or are you worried about slow played hands.

Posted almost 4 years ago

l26wang

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12 posts
Joined 06/2008

If you call and lose here, you give up the chip lead. The regular should push relatively narrow since he is giving you pretty good odds to call and he has a lot to lose being the 3rd stack.



Your considerations are valid. The button has shown that he's feeling the bubble pressure hero is dishing out and has stayed out of hero's way, including a walk the previous orbit. However, with a 5 bb stack, it's a must call with AJ. With slightly bigger effective stack, like 8 bb, a fold could very well be better.

The way hero abused the bubble to win this tourney is nothing short of clinical.

Posted almost 4 years ago

l26wang

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12 posts
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Black table 4: QTs blind vs blind for 13bb. I'd shove this all day. It's unexploitable



Skitz0, he's right on the unexploitable part. You make money by shoving and turning your hand face up. What's your consideration for limping and folding here?

Also the very similar QJo hand a few seconds earlier, although not strictly "unexploitable", should still be a shove.

Posted almost 4 years ago

Suited Aces

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89 posts
Joined 03/2010

Awesome video, I too like the 8 tabling format. The 4 tabling SNG videos can get pretty slow at times.

Your bubble domination on that last table was really informative. A lot of times I know this is the right way to play on the bubble, but can't pull the trigger on some of the marginal shoves. It was nice to see this principle put into action.

Posted almost 4 years ago

Skitz0Frenik

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215 posts
Joined 03/2009

Skitz0, he's right on the unexploitable part. You make money by shoving and turning your hand face up. What's your consideration for limping and folding here?

Also the very similar QJo hand a few seconds earlier, although not strictly "unexploitable", should still be a shove.



It is definitely +EV to shove there, but vs. really tight opponents I like to take pots down with less risk if possible (when there aren't antes). Prior to the antes I won't be shoving 12 or 13+ BBs very often because especially in lower stakes, I think we can get in really easy double-up spots postflop. In that particular spot, I would hate to shove my 1300 to pick up 150 vs. a nit when I can accomplish the same thing 90% of the time only risking a fraction of my stack.

Posted almost 4 years ago

Skitz0Frenik

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215 posts
Joined 03/2009

If you call and lose here, you give up the chip lead. The regular should push relatively narrow since he is giving you pretty good odds to call and he has a lot to lose being the 3rd stack.

Are there any merits to folding this? You can abuse the bubble further, but if you lose, the other player could do the same thing.

As it went down, he didn't push the next hand and relinquished the lead again.



He's not going to be shoving next hand UTG if he wins very often at all. That means we'll usually have at least one spot to shove and regain the chiplead (I guess I didn't see during the hand he'd also have 8k if he won). Yes, he's pushing a tighter range because he's third in chips, but he also doesn't want to give the shortstack a chance to double or pick up a shove into me. I put a regular like him on a range of something A6s+, KJ+ 44+, and given our price (and my contention that we'll easily regain a chiplead in the next couple hands if we lose) I think a call is correct.

Posted almost 4 years ago

Skitz0Frenik

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215 posts
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Top Right - AQs Hand. What if you had a trashier hand? Say j5/q2.

Would you fold, and let the BB hit you next round on a random hand? What are your requirements there?



I would fold bad hands. We don't have much fold equity at all and UTG shoves don't work nearly as often as they used to (when people didn't have any real understanding of push/fold). I would eat the BB on a random hand because it gives us a chance at a walk or a SB limp that we can steal (either by shoving pre or stabbing post).

Posted almost 4 years ago

Skitz0Frenik

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215 posts
Joined 03/2009

would you mind going into the limp in upper right (black) w/ KQcc with 7bb? Interesting play.
Thanks for the vid, btw. The format is great, and your insight is very clear.



Nice pickup - looking at their HUD #s this is definitely a shove I missed!

Posted almost 4 years ago

rubbishaka80

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555 posts
Joined 07/2007

It is definitely +EV to shove there, but vs. really tight opponents I like to take pots down with less risk if possible (when there aren't antes). Prior to the antes I won't be shoving 12 or 13+ BBs very often because especially in lower stakes, I think we can get in really easy double-up spots postflop. In that particular spot, I would hate to shove my 1300 to pick up 150 vs. a nit when I can accomplish the same thing 90% of the time only risking a fraction of my stack.



I think 90% is a bit of a high estimate. I think he shoves over your limp a little wider than he would call your shove. Since you are limp-folding, you give away any equity you'd might have against his shove.

Additionally, he will hit the flop like 1/3 of the time, maybe 20% of the time he'll hit it harder than you? If you don't hit at all, you'll invest another BB with the intention to fold to any further action.

Also, I don't see how you can get in "very easy double-up spots" against a nit, where he doesn't have a good chunk of equity against you.

Posted almost 4 years ago

Skitz0Frenik

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215 posts
Joined 03/2009

I think 90% is a bit of a high estimate. I think he shoves over your limp a little wider than he would call your shove. Since you are limp-folding, you give away any equity you'd might have against his shove.

Additionally, he will hit the flop like 1/3 of the time, maybe 20% of the time he'll hit it harder than you? If you don't hit at all, you'll invest another BB with the intention to fold to any further action.

Also, I don't see how you can get in "very easy double-up spots" against a nit, where he doesn't have a good chunk of equity against you.



Those are good points - the other thing I'll say is I treat a bunch of these spots similarly to when I take a slight EV hit by walking the BB in other spots. I'll limp/stab or limp/fold in awkward stack spots to avoid developing a loose image for later on. Maybe that helps clarify my reasoning a little more.

Posted almost 4 years ago

dcpc

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1 posts
Joined 03/2009

Time Link to 00:20:51

You fold KQ suited from the SB on the top right at 20:51. There are two limpers you complete then the BB who is 30/20 for a small sample shoves for 12BB...why is KQ suited not a call with only 6BB left? I would see the shove as an isolation move and would be more likely to call lighter than normal but in your case you have a pretty strong hand given that spot no?

Posted almost 4 years ago

Skitz0Frenik

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215 posts
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You fold KQ suited from the SB on the top right at 20:51. There are two limpers you complete then the BB who is 30/20 for a small sample shoves for 12BB...why is KQ suited not a call with only 6BB left? I would see the shove as an isolation move and would be more likely to call lighter than normal but in your case you have a pretty strong hand given that spot no?



Good catch - we actually discussed that hand already and I pointed out it was a shove that I missed, woops!

Posted almost 4 years ago

kingjoe

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2 posts
Joined 10/2010

Hi Skitz0Frenik, great video! I play the 18man 3.40$ on stars. I have the feeling it is very risky to abuse the buble like you did at this buy-in limit, bcz. it seems that most fishes on this low limit call much too loose. I would love to hear your opinion (is it possible to abuse the bubble like you did at this limit also/) and the opinion of other DC members.

Posted almost 4 years ago

Skitz0Frenik

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215 posts
Joined 03/2009

Hi Skitz0Frenik, great video! I play the 18man 3.40$ on stars. I have the feeling it is very risky to abuse the buble like you did at this buy-in limit, bcz. it seems that most fishes on this low limit call much too loose. I would love to hear your opinion (is it possible to abuse the bubble like you did at this limit also/) and the opinion of other DC members.



It can definitely be risky. The key is to do your best to take note of how loose the opponents might call. When you're multitabling, the HUD can be a helpful tool for this. If they have high numbers, they are more likely to call wide. Also, you really need to be selective with the spots you choose.

There are obvious ATC spots (when the shortstack has folded and you're shoving into mid or big stacks), and obvious spots where you should NOT be shoving even CLOSE to ATC (spots where shortstack is committed in BB etc.). It takes practice but by paying attention and experimenting you can eliminate a lot of the risk and actually exploit loose calling ranges.

Posted almost 4 years ago

jxrFR

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29 posts
Joined 03/2008

Time Link to 00:33:28

I've been wondering about this kind of spot.

The equilibrium (http://www.holdemresources.net/hr/sngs/icmcalculator.html?action=calculate&bb=200&sb=100&ante=25&structure=1&s1=5630&s2=1430&s3=1630&s4=2500&s5=935&s6=1225&s7=&s8=&s9=) doesn't change much for CO when you vary the stacks behind.

I'm leaning towards a shove not just because you can vs decently wide calling ranges but because it's 1/4 of your stack every round and it's still far from the money.

I was wondering if those who like a fold could debate the spot a little.

Posted over 3 years ago

marlow

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6 posts
Joined 02/2011

24:05 not shoving the T7s is a mistake imo. I've not checked it out but I'm pretty sure it'll be hugely +ev vs even wide calling ranges. Plus making it 500-600 will get folds enough anyway. I was quite surprised how tight u were considering you said you're going to have to gambool it up a touch what with it being an 18 man. Early in the game (can't remember time) you could easily have limped behind on the button for 20 chips with ATo which will defo be a profitable play, but that's nit picking I guess. Am finding the lack of shoving over limpers with good hands interesting. Along with the not shoving bvb for a defo +ev move, it's possible +++ev things can come out of not shoving; ie the bvb for later image and for the limped pots there's good chances to double up post. I should incorporate this conservativeness a touch more myself I think as I am a huge flip loser. Also the KQs planned stop n go from the BB was a bit iffy, much prefer a straight pre flop shove if he's a wide opener. I'd rather stop n go with a touch less than 10bbs as that is one of the main reasons for stop n gos, to give us FE post where pre flop we wouldn't have any. Anyway you're the boss and are better than me so just my tuppence worth really. As said though, the T7s fold is the nittiest thing I've ever seen Grin Great vids, can't wait to watch the rest.

EDIT: One other thing about the not shoving KQs over EP limper who you then go on to note he's limping 45o or w/e it was; don't know if you realise but you can click on your HUD stats for more stats to see from their VPIP how much of it is limping and from which positions? That itself would have told you he's capable of limping a huge range, although it is true when their PFR's are very low then they also limp the very tops of their ranges too. Weird tendencies those 35/8 types.

Posted over 3 years ago

Skitz0Frenik

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215 posts
Joined 03/2009

I've been wondering about this kind of spot.

The equilibrium (http://www.holdemresources.net/hr/sngs/icmcalculator.html?action=calculate&bb=200&sb=100&ante=25&structure=1&s1=5630&s2=1430&s3=1630&s4=2500&s5=935&s6=1225&s7=&s8=&s9=) doesn't change much for CO when you vary the stacks behind.

I'm leaning towards a shove not just because you can vs decently wide calling ranges but because it's 1/4 of your stack every round and it's still far from the money.

I was wondering if those who like a fold could debate the spot a little.



I assume you are referring to the K3s hand in the CO? Looking back at this I'm surprised I didn't shove there, that has to be +EV! The shorty isn't calling wide enough to make that an unprofitable shove, so good call if that's what you were pointing out.

Posted over 3 years ago

Skitz0Frenik

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215 posts
Joined 03/2009

24:05 not shoving the T7s is a mistake imo. I've not checked it out but I'm pretty sure it'll be hugely +ev vs even wide calling ranges. Plus making it 500-600 will get folds enough anyway. I was quite surprised how tight u were considering you said you're going to have to gambool it up a touch what with it being an 18 man. Early in the game (can't remember time) you could easily have limped behind on the button for 20 chips with ATo which will defo be a profitable play, but that's nit picking I guess. Am finding the lack of shoving over limpers with good hands interesting. Along with the not shoving bvb for a defo +ev move, it's possible +++ev things can come out of not shoving; ie the bvb for later image and for the limped pots there's good chances to double up post. I should incorporate this conservativeness a touch more myself I think as I am a huge flip loser. Also the KQs planned stop n go from the BB was a bit iffy, much prefer a straight pre flop shove if he's a wide opener. I'd rather stop n go with a touch less than 10bbs as that is one of the main reasons for stop n gos, to give us FE post where pre flop we wouldn't have any. Anyway you're the boss and are better than me so just my tuppence worth really. As said though, the T7s fold is the nittiest thing I've ever seen Grin Great vids, can't wait to watch the rest.

EDIT: One other thing about the not shoving KQs over EP limper who you then go on to note he's limping 45o or w/e it was; don't know if you realise but you can click on your HUD stats for more stats to see from their VPIP how much of it is limping and from which positions? That itself would have told you he's capable of limping a huge range, although it is true when their PFR's are very low then they also limp the very tops of their ranges too. Weird tendencies those 35/8 types.




I agree with you 100% on the T7s hand, we may still have a tiny bit of FE and even without it it's still a +EV shove. The ATo spot on the button is one I will consistently fold and stand by - when multitabling I won't be playing that hand profitably enough and as you've seen I'm ultra selective early, but for good reason. Also agree the KQs stop n' go doesn't make much sense, sometimes I just take slightly different lines for a different look, but just shoving has to be more profitable vs. a wide opening range. Thanks for the tips on the HUD, I should really take advantage of its features more! Glad you liked the vid and thanks for the comments Smile

Posted over 3 years ago

jxrFR

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29 posts
Joined 03/2008

I assume you are referring to the K3s hand in the CO? Looking back at this I'm surprised I didn't shove there, that has to be +EV! The shorty isn't calling wide enough to make that an unprofitable shove, so good call if that's what you were pointing out.



yep that's the spot I meant,thanks.

Posted over 3 years ago

SnòwBall

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3 posts
Joined 04/2013

This was just the video for me to watch today, Thanks Doug Smile

The reason because I yesterday played two sessions x19 games, just this format. And the day before I had a couple of wins and feeling very good.
Anyhow, back to yesterday.
Somehow managed to get ITM at 32% but still go -42% ROI !

I played well, some misses - but those were the ones I busted before the bubble. Darn damned it's not good placing 4th in these 18-mans, aim for #1, settle for #2 (if you don't got the stack) but never accept 3rd or 4th place... Smile

Today i got some bad flips and beats (KK lose vs AK, AK loose vs A8 etc) and tilted my last three games in the session earlier. Then now I watched this, ran some HH reviews and feel much mentally adjusted to view it as 'it is what it is'. But as long as I do the right calls, and cover my leaks, I should be fine.

Posted over 1 year ago



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