Poker Video: Misc/Other by DeathDonkey (High Stakes)

first n stuff..
that badugi-thing sounds tempting. can we expect to be in for a treat as soon as stars has badugi-cashtables?

Great video again, thanks for an excellent series. The badugi thing sure sounds really exciting!!

Patting AJ962 at 57:00 was totally a misclick

Thanks for a fun series.

And I love it when you make playing seem so easy. I hate it when it doesn't feel like that when I'm on the table myself. (Well, to be honest, I don't hate it. It's a good thing but anyhow.)

I'm really hoping to see a TDL series from groth911t, ideally similar to this series. In particular, I'd like to see how he adjusts his predraw and postdraw decisions to loose passive and tight passive players at lower limits. I have played a fair bit of 5/10 TDL in the past few weeks and I'd like to learn how to go from an average ABC TAG to a strong LAGTAG.

at 14 mins where hero held 24678 vs oogee in position I think thats a fold, a c/r followed by a value bet here by oogee is at worst a clean 9, this means the range is so highly polarized towards hands that beat the hero. Even if oogee holds a876xx then oogee has to be betting with 87652 within the 8's range(unless he tied) or 923xx or worse to pick up the pot at showdown.

A little 2-7 hand reading trick, if the player has a clue then his BB calling range with a 3 card draw is precisely 23, 24, 25 or 27, this helps us better define the villain's river value betting range a little tighter. If the villain plays really well and is cognizant of pot size there is no way he is calling after the 1st draw with a 2 card drawing hand unless he holds a strong 2 card 7 draw which is precisely 237xx, 247xx or 257xx. Knowing this allows us to define the villain's range so tightly that the river is a clear fold even when including the size of the pot in your analysis IMHO.

ps - what up Groth!

TT, a couple things:
1) be careful about how you use the word "polarize" here, its not at all appropriate. If there is one thing that makes Oogee a very tough regular, its that he isn't polarized at all here, he will play all better hands and a few worse ones than our 876 the same, as well as mixing in a few snows I would expect.

2) your hand reading trick may be valid for some players but its not at all for most of the 30/60 guys, who are just way more loose aggressive than that, for instance I would fully expect him to defend 63xyz and continue when he catches an 8 or 9.

-DeathDonkey

2) your hand reading trick may be valid for some players but its not at all for most of the 30/60 guys, who are just way more loose aggressive than that, for instance I would fully expect him to defend 63xyz and continue when he catches an 8 or 9.
-DeathDonkey

Do you think it's +EV to play like that? (i.e. continue with 369) I see some people doing this kind of stuff and I really don't know. You and DJ have never done anything like that in the vids, but does it perhaps become neccessary at super high stakes or sth?

CD

Well I think its dangerous to play like that, but it can be ok. The key when you are playing marginal hands is to really know your opponent, and be able to make the right raise or call when required, and also make the right laydown when required. The judgment to do this isn't easy, and for most people it won't be +EV because they will make mistakes postdraw too often. If I am teaching someone to play a game I would advise him to fold, but if I am discussing a tough hand with groth911t, I think we would assume we would continue generally and then decide what's the best play from there.

-DeathDonkey

Well I think its dangerous to play like that, but it can be ok. The key when you are playing marginal hands is to really know your opponent, and be able to make the right raise or call when required, and also make the right laydown when required. The judgment to do this isn't easy, and for most people it won't be +EV because they will make mistakes postdraw too often. If I am teaching someone to play a game I would advise him to fold, but if I am discussing a tough hand with groth911t, I think we would assume we would continue generally and then decide what's the best play from there.

-DeathDonkey

Oh, ok. Thanks. Guess I need to revise my tightish way of looking at this game.

67 minutes that is a misclick. The funny part is I was so flustered I miss the flop value raise with 96543. This was interesting, take care guys.

-BBQbowser


Perhaps I should apply for a Five Card Draw position on the team?

Perhaps I should apply for a Five Card Draw position on the team?

As long as its pot-limit. I played a little bit of limit 5cd recently and it was AWFUL!

Hey BBQbowser,

Nice to have you on our forums, hopefully we can get some triple draw hands posted from time to time in the other games forum. If you can get 5 card draw to be in high demand we'll absolutely look for expert vids from you!

-DeathDonkey

If you can get 5 card draw to be in high demand

5 Card Draw high demand? Don't get me wrong I have a killer time machine but it doesn't go back more than 30 years!

DD,DJ,groth,

Great vid. At 60:40, DJ has 23478 in position vs oogee after the first draw, and oogee had drawn 1 now pats. You guys say raising is definitely the way to go, as you get value when ahead and information when behind, and that oogee will never break anything better ie. 86xx

1) So the standard line should be raise and if 3bet then you break?

2) Is this ever a spot where you might want to call, then pat behind him? The idea being it saves you money if he has 86x or better and doesn’t let him break if he’s got 9x or smooth 876.

3) If you had something like a smooth 9, is this a spot where you might want to raise and if 3bet then 4bet. To try and get him to break on the next draw? if so how often?

Good questions, very tough ones

1) I am never breaking 874 at mid stakes or higher, so I would call down a 3 bet and not break.

2) The freeze is a decent idea but there is too much value with 874, I'd be more likely to consider that play with like 87643.

3) Yes that would be fine to do against some people maybe 25% of the time, against Oogee I wouldn't like it too much since he is NOT a breaker.

awesome, thanks

Time Link to 01:05:17

In this discussion you talk about your kf, kr and leading out ranges. The conclusion appears to be that you bet all your 1cds, kf UI and kr a pat hand. Does it not matter that your leading out range does not contain any pat hands in this instance? Also, if you lead out what is the worst draw that you are calling a raise with?

Time Link to 00:18:11

How exactly did you run these numbers to get the odds of hitting a 7?

In hold em I used to use my own deck and deal out cards face up to "run the numbers" but if there is a program you use please share!

How exactly did you run these numbers to get the odds of hitting a 7?

In hold em I used to use my own deck and deal out cards face up to "run the numbers" but if there is a program you use please share!

Google for "Troutulator". It's written by RubbishCards on 2p2.

I'm halfway through coding a new triple draw equity calc. that I will be releasing soon but probably not until new year.

Time Link to 00:02:12

groth911 advises to openraise 872 from the co. If I recall correctly you said that it is a fold from the CO.

also what about 873?

groth911 advises to openraise 872 from the co. If I recall correctly you said that it is a fold from the CO.

also what about 873?

Depends on BTN more than anything else.

If BTN is very tight and not very aggressive then it's fine to open as we steal a little more often (he folds a lot predraw) and we can just play straightforward versus him if he does VPIP. We won't be made to fold out equity frequently so I don't mind folding strong hands (even a rough "pat" 87xxx") a few times versus this player type.

The worst type of BTN would be a slightly loose, slightly aggressive, and value-oriented player who doesn't snow a lot. We will often make a hand that beats only the tail-end of his value betting range and end up making thin sigh-calls versus a reasonably wide value-betting range. I would especially avoid competent players that 3-bet 2cds with position.

A loose maniacal player isn't really a problem as we can just play any reasonable 87xx draw pretty much the same as an ordinary smooth 12-outer (although we don't have quite such great implied odds as a 7xx2 draw this isn't where most of your money comes from versus a maniac).

Fully agree with jjd

I dont understand why it is bad to play vs that kind of opponent. HU our hand plays fairly well vs another 2cd.

Time Link to 00:30:37

is this defend up to date? I probably have already asked this in another video thread a few weeks ago.

is this defend up to date? I probably have already asked this in another video thread a few weeks ago.

i would defend it vs most guys.

is this defend up to date? I probably have already asked this in another video thread a few weeks ago.

Would defend vs most also, its not a good hand against a very tough player OOP, but its still probably worth playing.

Timestamp: 01:05:17 - In this discussion you talk about your kf, kr and leading out ranges. The conclusion appears to be that you bet all your 1cds, kf UI and kr a pat hand. Does it not matter that your leading out range does not contain any pat hands in this instance? Also, if you lead out what is the worst draw that you are calling a raise with?

Great episode and series, really glad I finally decided to watch it. Just wanted to bump jjd323's questions since I'm interested in hearing your thoughts on the matter, look forward for new 27TD material.

That was a starting point for DJ, I mix this up a lot, and it depends on the specific villain often too (some guys raise your leads too much so bet 3 betting when pat is great, etc). It's something that's tough to generalize.