Poker Video: No Limit Hold'Em by WiltOnTilt (Micro/Small Stakes)

Real Life Micro NL-Grinder: Unlimited Texas Hold Them: Episode Two

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Real Life Micro NL-Grinder: Unlimited Texas Hold Them: Episode Two by WiltOnTilt

WiltOnTilt and WhiteHeatSYD continue their review of SSNL principles with a 2-tabling coaching session of $50NL.

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How do you mold a beginner into an expert? WiltOnTilt and DeucesCracked member WhiteHeatSYD delve into the heart of that question in Real Life: MicroNL Grinder. Bankroll management theory, starting hand selection and general strategy development coupled with live sweat and hand history review. And keep your eyes peeled for special guest coaches!

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wiltontilt whiteheatsyd nlhe 2-tabling 50nl live play coaching session

Video Details

  • Game: nlhe
  • Stakes: Micro/Small Stakes
  • 67 minutes long
  • Posted over 6 years ago

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Comments for Real Life Micro NL-Grinder: Unlimited Texas Hold Them: Episode Two

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NoWayFolding

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3813 posts
Joined 03/2008

Cant wait to watch...

Should be goodGrin

Posted over 6 years ago

nakke

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Baller
181 posts
Joined 04/2008

Fold A5s on the button against a utg raise and cold call from 47/25 and 51/21 players? Gasp (16 mins 30 secs into the video)

Posted over 6 years ago

dildog

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594 posts
Joined 01/2008

NoWayFolding

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3813 posts
Joined 03/2008

50 mins in.....
you have 76s. Raise OTB, moneysans calls and he c/min raises.

I think this is a clear fold.

While this player is very loose and somewhat aggressive, I doubt this is a pure bluff.
After studing these players a lot, this type of player is NOT the manical LAG that bluffs every opportunity, but a loose semi aggressive player that will raise hands that have hit boards.

The c min raise here is always {strong draws,top pair hands,overpairs, and sometimes middle pairs/underpairs}

Ok you say that he does c/raise a lot but this is over a short sample and I believe if he was check raising as a total bluff he would be c/raising a lot higher, and that the c/min raise is an attempt to show strength, get value and also get him to showdown.

I think also by the turn this is a definite fold, especially when you were talking about people playing straightfowardly. I do not think this player is super bluffy (as you saw he does like to get SD), and I think when he bets this turn its definitely a TP+ hand.

Posted over 6 years ago

NoWayFolding

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3813 posts
Joined 03/2008

Got to say very nice video and very informative.
Looking forward to next week.

Posted over 6 years ago

FloppinPairs

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36 posts
Joined 07/2008

Great vid thanks guys. Learnt a lot particularly the parts about dealing with flop check raises. Looking forward to the rest of the series.

Posted over 6 years ago

jgunnip

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324 posts
Joined 01/2008

Got to say I'm not a fan of having so many stats overlayed on the screen. It's very distracting both watching the vid and while playing. Most of the stats you aren't going to be using that often and when you do want to check just open the pop-ups stats.

Posted over 6 years ago

Blixx

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85 posts
Joined 03/2008

Just watched the first half and have a few questions before I forget...

37min KJo in SB: When CO opens I agree folding here is best but do you ever 3bet if say there wasn't a super loose BB or your sample on Hansli was bigger and he had a decent steal percentage? What if you'd been in the BB instead? He seems loose enough that your not crushed by his CO range and you haven't 3bet him yet that i remember.

38:45m You mention its a shame that you don't have position on the mega-fish but seat 6 is open. Why not switch and get position on him and the other solid player you've played before and have reads on?

Really looking forward to the rest of this series, probably going to end up being my favorite of the season (excluding any stand alone FR vids).

Posted over 6 years ago

jjunkins1

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21 posts
Joined 03/2008

I found your idea of triple barreling the 99x flop very interesting to get them off medium PPs. Would you only take this line against a solid player who can fold? Did you fold the A5s hand OTB because the cold caller was a short stack? I normally call there. I'm interested to see how you are going to exploit the button limpers iso raising with marginal holdings oop.

Posted over 6 years ago

pajuo

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7 posts
Joined 06/2008

Fold A5s on the button against a utg raise and cold call from 47/25 and 51/21 players? Gasp (16 mins 30 secs into the video)


I also dont get that fold? on the button?

Posted over 6 years ago

Profane

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18 posts
Joined 05/2008

very good video, bring alot of interest spots with good explanations. thanks alot!

About the KhJh hand (5min), if villain c/r us on the turn, are we willing to call?

And how do you play this kind of hands (TPGK, TPTK), but out of position? Lets say that we raises with KJ, same villain from the video calls, we bet on a J54 and get raised.

On the AJ hand (44min, squeeze situation against drc), if we 4bet, we are always calling drc push right?

Thanks alot, great video!

Posted over 6 years ago

shady

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30 posts
Joined 03/2008

Dunno if it has been asked previously, but is there a file config for the HUD setup.

Posted over 6 years ago

EnterPIN

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8 posts
Joined 04/2008

Dunno if it has been asked previously, but is there a file config for the HUD setup.



+1

Posted over 6 years ago

WhiteHeatSYD

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Real Life Grinder
847 posts
Joined 09/2007

Dunno if it has been asked previously, but is there a file config for the HUD setup.



I don't think that you can put the hud setup into a file? Does any one know how I can pull it off my harddrive? If you can I will post a link for it.

Posted over 6 years ago

munkey

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13 posts
Joined 03/2008

I enjoyed this one, and it was great that WhiteHeatSYD asked quite a few rly good questions -like what would you do if this was a tight player e.t.c

50mins in 76s, I agree somewhat with NoWayFolding. I would never float there without some kind of over outs or better. Just think he's got a tp/2nd pair or draw, and we beat 1/2 PPs he may also have.

re: exporting HEM HUD layout

http://www.deucescracked.com/videos/35-King_for_a_Day/346-Episode_Eight
If you download this it contains 3 files:

prefs.xml
PosPref.txt
PosPref2.txt

So I guess copy these from C:\Program Files\RVG Software\Holdem Manager\Config and ask Entity to upload it. Remember to save a backup of these files if your use WhiteHeatsSYD layout -just copy and post in a new folder somewhere on desktop.

Posted over 6 years ago

chomp

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154 posts
Joined 03/2008

Alex is Fruitypro! Ah, dear ole Fruitypro.

Nice vid.

Posted over 6 years ago

WhiteHeatSYD

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Real Life Grinder
847 posts
Joined 09/2007

Fold A5s on the button against a utg raise and cold call from 47/25 and 51/21 players? Gasp (16 mins 30 secs into the video)



My view on this is that the utg is raising about 13-16% of hands in this spot. I think that his range he is not as wide as made out, I would always fold or squeeze in this spot. But I think the problem with squeezing here is that both are likely to call a squeeze as they are donks. The overlimp also leaves us open to a squeeze as we are not really representing anything decent with a raise and cold call in front. So the loose player but tight raiser in the blinds can make a move on us. So that leaves calling. For example if the flop comes down AT7, and the turn is a 9, you are never going to know if you are ahead or behind, as he can play an Ace down to A7. Where a TAGs range in this position is easier to manage. Also I don't feel that there is enough of his range that he is going to stack off with if we hit a flush. As he is not really playing SC and small pocket pairs UTG, as I think he would limp most of these.

Posted over 6 years ago

WhiteHeatSYD

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Real Life Grinder
847 posts
Joined 09/2007

Just watched the first half and have a few questions before I forget...

37min KJo in SB: When CO opens I agree folding here is best but do you ever 3bet if say there wasn't a super loose BB or your sample on Hansli was bigger and he had a decent steal percentage? What if you'd been in the BB instead? He seems loose enough that your not crushed by his CO range and you haven't 3bet him yet that i remember.




I would prefer a bigger sample size to make this decision. As he is only raising 13% of hands, and we have no info on whether he folds to a 3bet. If he does flat our 3bet it is going to be by a hand that likely has us dominated and we are out of position for the rest of the hand. Would prefer to do it with air, or something with a bit more potential would prefer it with KJs, but it would definately be a marginal 3bet in my opinion.

Will get WiltOnTilt to give some input on my last two posts as he should have better explanations as this is still a learners view...

Posted over 6 years ago

WhiteHeatSYD

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Real Life Grinder
847 posts
Joined 09/2007

Alex is Fruitypro! Ah, dear ole Fruitypro.

Nice vid.




I use to love Fruitypro's videos, as he was so detailed. Do you know what happened to him????

Posted over 6 years ago

pbankssix3

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18 posts
Joined 05/2008

Great video, keep up the good work.

Posted over 6 years ago

chomp

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154 posts
Joined 03/2008

I use to love Fruitypro's videos, as he was so detailed. Do you know what happened to him????




Yeah, I used to love them too - thought they were the best vids on CR (well, for us donks anyway). I have no idea whether he still makes vids for them, but I don't seem to remember any new vids by him in the months before I defected to DC.

Josh's videos here remind me very much of FP actually - logical, "simple" thought-process, and playing in a very controlled, methodical, measured way.

Posted over 6 years ago

Fischie

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17 posts
Joined 04/2008

Question about the AJo hand in which the rationale for flat-calling drc's squeeze play was to induce MoneySan(?)(the fish) to call:

What if WhiteHeat had had something like QQ in that position? Would you still advocate just flat-calling drc's squeeze in order to get MoneySan to call or would you rather re-raise in order to (theoretically) force out MoneySan and have a heads-up pot with drc?

Also, say you had the QQ and you flat call as you did with the AJo and MoneySan calls. The Board comes down the same: 4cKh8h. And drc bets out his $15. What would you do? If you just called drc's $15 bet, aren't you giving good odds to MoneySan to call with a flush draw? But with a re-raise, aren't you committing too much of your stack so that if drc re-raises all-in, you're pot committed and have to call, praying he doesn't have a king?

Posted over 6 years ago

Percula

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20 posts
Joined 05/2008

Nice job on the second episode guys!

Man you run like I do. Frown

And you out'ed two of my favorite fish too, now there are going to be big waiting lists on their tables. lol.

A couple of specific comments/questions...

1) When you get these mega fish running hot and sitting with >200BB their play tends to change somewhat, but in a critical way. For example 995994 when he/she gets a big stack he/she gets a lot more aggressive with air and made hands. I like the float on the C/R with KJ you are good there like 99% of the time and a raise there would only get a fold and miss the chance at more value.

But MoneySan is the other type, when he/she gets deep, his/her little C/R acts tend to indicate a "decent" made hand. I have been check mini raised on the turn by san a couple of times and seen a showdown. It is almost always a decent hand with showdown value, one was a monster (turned quads vs top set).

2) If this is too personal, no need to reply.

How are you situated for bankroll? How are you dealing with your run of running bad? I take it you guys have already recorded all of the episodes for the series, but is there any chance you can talk about dealing with the effects of the "running bad" and any you have done to counter act any negitive effects?

Posted over 6 years ago

WhiteHeatSYD

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Real Life Grinder
847 posts
Joined 09/2007

Question about the AJo hand in which the rationale for flat-calling drc's squeeze play was to induce MoneySan(?)(the fish) to call:

What if WhiteHeat had had something like QQ in that position? Would you still advocate just flat-calling drc's squeeze in order to get MoneySan to call or would you rather re-raise in order to (theoretically) force out MoneySan and have a heads-up pot with drc?

Also, say you had the QQ and you flat call as you did with the AJo and MoneySan calls. The Board comes down the same: 4cKh8h. And drc bets out his $15. What would you do? If you just called drc's $15 bet, aren't you giving good odds to MoneySan to call with a flush draw? But with a re-raise, aren't you committing too much of your stack so that if drc re-raises all-in, you're pot committed and have to call, praying he doesn't have a king?



I have a lot of history with Drc13, and my view on the hand is that the worst that he is going to be betting into me with is KQo on this flop. After discussing the hand with him, he said he had KQo, and knew that if he could get past me he would be shoving any flop against the fish. But with QQ I would of 4bet him pf, as I know his range could be 99+, KJs,KQs,AK,AQo. So would only be dominated by only two hands. If it did get to the flop, I think that raising or folding is the best play here, as in effect you are drawing to a couple of QQ. I don’t want to play 2nd pair in a re-raised pot multiway.

Posted over 6 years ago

WhiteHeatSYD

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Real Life Grinder
847 posts
Joined 09/2007



2) If this is too personal, no need to reply.

How are you situated for bankroll? How are you dealing with your run of running bad? I take it you guys have already recorded all of the episodes for the series, but is there any chance you can talk about dealing with the effects of the "running bad" and any you have done to counter act any negitive effects?



I will make sure that I cover this in video 4, as we have not recorded it yet. I just need to rationalize my thoughts on it to give you some usefull info on it. As I think I made a number of mistakes with my downswing.

Posted over 6 years ago

milhouse7

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9 posts
Joined 04/2008

Just a quick question. Is this video not available on an ipod compatible version? I noticed episode one was, but episode two appears not to be. Apologize if this is a newbie question as I am new to watching dc videos on ipod.

Posted over 6 years ago

WhiteHeatSYD

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Real Life Grinder
847 posts
Joined 09/2007

Just a quick question. Is this video not available on an ipod compatible version? I noticed episode one was, but episode two appears not to be. Apologize if this is a newbie question as I am new to watching dc videos on ipod.



You can only watch the one table and powerpoint videos on an ipod, as otherwise it is to small. Not sure about the ipod touch? As it may be watchable on this, but this is Entity's area....

Posted over 6 years ago

Entity

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8667 posts
Joined 11/2006

You can only watch the one table and powerpoint videos on an ipod, as otherwise it is to small. Not sure about the ipod touch? As it may be watchable on this, but this is Entity's area....


Yeah, only one tabling vids are converted to iPod format. Two and four tabling vids just look too small on the iPod.

Rob (posting from iPhone)

Posted over 6 years ago

WiltOnTilt

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2652 posts
Joined 10/2007

Guys, I'm about to crash tonight (had a family wedding all weekend) but I'll be sure to respond to all of your questions sometime Monday. Thanks for your patience and watching the videos!

Aaron

Posted over 6 years ago

WiltOnTilt

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2652 posts
Joined 10/2007

Fold A5s on the button against a utg raise and cold call from 47/25 and 51/21 players? Gasp (16 mins 30 secs into the video)



yea you're right, we should have probably called there. i guess i was too into what i was saying at the time and just felt to pass on that play, even though it is probably +EV against those 2 donks... although in my defense they were both short stacks.

Posted over 6 years ago

WiltOnTilt

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2652 posts
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50 mins in.....
you have 76s. Raise OTB, moneysans calls and he c/min raises.

I think this is a clear fold.

While this player is very loose and somewhat aggressive, I doubt this is a pure bluff.
After studing these players a lot, this type of player is NOT the manical LAG that bluffs every opportunity, but a loose semi aggressive player that will raise hands that have hit boards.

The c min raise here is always {strong draws,top pair hands,overpairs, and sometimes middle pairs/underpairs}

Ok you say that he does c/raise a lot but this is over a short sample and I believe if he was check raising as a total bluff he would be c/raising a lot higher, and that the c/min raise is an attempt to show strength, get value and also get him to showdown.

I think also by the turn this is a definite fold, especially when you were talking about people playing straightfowardly. I do not think this player is super bluffy (as you saw he does like to get SD), and I think when he bets this turn its definitely a TP+ hand.



i rewatched this and i still think the float in that spot against that player is fine, given his bet sizes and the insta turn bet (which is often weakness). I'm not expecting someone to checkraise a hand like QJ there on QT3 and then play it like the nuts... but once we've gotten to showdown, now we know. I think it's much more likely for a guy who is checkraising a lot to be checkraising something like AJ or 98 or complete air then it is for him to be checkraising TPNK, and vs a guy who is on our left and we plan to play against quite a bit (at least for this session) then getting to showdown and figuring out just what types of hands he's checkraising has a lot of value. Once we know his range contains hands like this, we can play much better.

i think the more debatable action on this hand is either raising the turn or turning our pair into a bluff on the river (which allows us to disguise the fact that we're willing to float him with air, but also defeats the other advantage we talked about with getting to showdown early in a session vs guys who do something abnormal (like checkraise a ton).

WoT

Posted over 6 years ago

WiltOnTilt

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Just watched the first half and have a few questions before I forget...

37min KJo in SB: When CO opens I agree folding here is best but do you ever 3bet if say there wasn't a super loose BB or your sample on Hansli was bigger and he had a decent steal percentage? What if you'd been in the BB instead? He seems loose enough that your not crushed by his CO range and you haven't 3bet him yet that i remember.



Yes, we can definitely 3bet a hand like KJo, but we need at least one of the following criteria:

a) we don't expect to get 4bet very often
b) we expect our opponent to call us with dominated hands
c) we have a good idea of how to play top pair against him in a 3bet pot when we either get raised or called on the flop

Basically we need to have some sort of gameplan with our hand and be willing to play big pots with just a pair of kings or jacks when we flop one, it also helps to know how aggro he is for when we flop say middle pair on an A J x board and if we decide to check, is he the type who will barrel us thinking we wouldnt check an A, or is he the type to just play straight up?


38:45m You mention its a shame that you don't have position on the mega-fish but seat 6 is open. Why not switch and get position on him and the other solid player you've played before and have reads on?

Really looking forward to the rest of this series, probably going to end up being my favorite of the season (excluding any stand alone FR vids).



Yea totally agree it's perfectly fine to switch seats to get position on fish, especially at the lower stakes. at the higher nosebleed games or something like that, I think it's a bit unethical and disrespectful, but at these stakes the player pool is so big that no one probably is even paying attention to that... so yes I think it's a good idea to switch seats real quick!

WoT

Posted over 6 years ago

WiltOnTilt

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2652 posts
Joined 10/2007

very good video, bring alot of interest spots with good explanations. thanks alot!

About the KhJh hand (5min), if villain c/r us on the turn, are we willing to call?



Yes we would, mostly because of our bet size. when you bet a small amount like that you will often induce loose and aggro actions by players who just think you'd never bet so small with a real hand. the turn also brought some backdoor draws, and when you see someone take the line of checkraise flop, then check raise turn on a draw heavy board, most of the time it's with some sort of draw on the flop that turned extra draw outs, so they check not caring if they get a free card, but then once they see a small bet they think "ohhh time to semibluff!" and you get them to jam it in. I've even had ppl jam in on my with extremely weak stuff like say A5 on that board.


And how do you play this kind of hands (TPGK, TPTK), but out of position? Lets say that we raises with KJ, same villain from the video calls, we bet on a J54 and get raised.



it's a very complex scenario, but let me throw out a few thoughts. We'd need to ask ourselves if he's capable of raising TP on such a dry board. We also need to ask ourselves if he is capable of fast playing a set on a dry board (many ppl at these stakes would always slowplay a set here, and they'd never value raise TP here, so that means his range is basically 67 or air or occasionally a tricky overpair he slowplayed preflop, so in this spot I'd be calling to continue to increase his bluffing range on the turn and trying to fade the straight outs...but you have to cater the situation to the type of player... if he's capable of value raising worse, or definitely capable of fast playing sets, it becomes much tougher.

one last thing, about the only time we'd 3bet KJ oop on the J54 is if we think our opponent is smart enough to both bluff raise us here and view our 3bet as a weak hand, the reason is because of "yeti theorem" (3rd raise on a dry board by the preflop raiser is often air). Jay and I talk a fair amount about this in one of the pr1nnyraiding videos (i believe it was the episodes with the tags), so check that out if you haven't yet.


On the AJ hand (44min, squeeze situation against drc), if we 4bet, we are always calling drc push right?

Thanks alot, great video!



Yea we would probably go ahead and 4bet to an amount that will price ourselves in if he does jam it.

WoT

Posted over 6 years ago

WiltOnTilt

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Question about the AJo hand in which the rationale for flat-calling drc's squeeze play was to induce MoneySan(?)(the fish) to call:

What if WhiteHeat had had something like QQ in that position? Would you still advocate just flat-calling drc's squeeze in order to get MoneySan to call or would you rather re-raise in order to (theoretically) force out MoneySan and have a heads-up pot with drc?

Also, say you had the QQ and you flat call as you did with the AJo and MoneySan calls. The Board comes down the same: 4cKh8h. And drc bets out his $15. What would you do? If you just called drc's $15 bet, aren't you giving good odds to MoneySan to call with a flush draw? But with a re-raise, aren't you committing too much of your stack so that if drc re-raises all-in, you're pot committed and have to call, praying he doesn't have a king?



Hi Fischie, great questions!

with a hand as strong as KK we would definitely be flat calling to keep the fish in and let him make a huge postflop mistake, but with QQ it becomes much harder because of the spot you describe -- getting an overcard to hit. I can definitely go either way, either 4betting to make the hand easier to play (probably what i would advocate to beginning players) or also calling and having faith in our postflop play. If the flop did come down king high with a flush draw then yes by just calling we would give the donkey good odds to hit his flush, but we're assuming his range is so wide that he will not have the flush draw very often at all.

There are times in NLHE where you often have to sacrifice a sub-optimal play against PART of your opponent's range in order to optimally exploit the entire range. Does that make sense? In other words, we're willing to take the slight risk that he actually does have the flush draw THIS TIME to get more information about his holding and potentially play a bigger pot against an inferior made hand that he can't let go of. Basically it's a balancing act, we have to try to mitigate our risk against hands that will get a good price against us to suck out, but also be willing to ensure we don't blow out the worse made hands that can pay us off.

hope that makes some sense.

also part of the reason we're calling there with AJo is we're almost "slowplaying our bluff" because we assume DRC's range is wide and the other guy's range is wide, so we can almost just let them both stick some money in with a wide range that we know won't be able to stand too much postflop heat very often, then we have the option of either hitting a pair and attempting to keep worse hands in, or when we miss, have the opportunity to still win the pot because we assume that DRC wont be cbetting 3 way with air too much given the loose player AND our hero in the pot, therefore when DRC checks, we'll be able to take the pot often since the guy behind us is probably calling preflop with anything he played before the squeeze.

I should also note that people should not look at this situation and say "oh, wiltontilt calls squeezes with AJo, so therefore i should ALWAYS BE CALLING WITH THIS!" -- no no no i hope no one thinks that. if you think that, please re-read this post and also re-listen to my in game logic around the 44 minute mark.

Alex actually asked DRC on AIM what he had this hand, and he told him KQ. I feel if he had AQ he would likely check there, which would give us the green light.

Posted over 6 years ago

WiltOnTilt

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2652 posts
Joined 10/2007

Nice job on the second episode guys!

Man you run like I do. Frown

And you out'ed two of my favorite fish too, now there are going to be big waiting lists on their tables. lol.

A couple of specific comments/questions...

1) When you get these mega fish running hot and sitting with >200BB their play tends to change somewhat, but in a critical way. For example 995994 when he/she gets a big stack he/she gets a lot more aggressive with air and made hands. I like the float on the C/R with KJ you are good there like 99% of the time and a raise there would only get a fold and miss the chance at more value.

But MoneySan is the other type, when he/she gets deep, his/her little C/R acts tend to indicate a "decent" made hand. I have been check mini raised on the turn by san a couple of times and seen a showdown. It is almost always a decent hand with showdown value, one was a monster (turned quads vs top set).

2) If this is too personal, no need to reply.

How are you situated for bankroll? How are you dealing with your run of running bad? I take it you guys have already recorded all of the episodes for the series, but is there any chance you can talk about dealing with the effects of the "running bad" and any you have done to counter act any negitive effects?



Percula, sounds like you have some good reads on these guys, thanks for that! Unfortunately Alex hadn't played too much with those guys to develop those specific reads (and of course me neither) but certainly if we had that read on MoneySan we might have played the hand differently. Thanks for sharing that.

Running badly has been tough on Alex, I know. It's been tough on me too as I've seen how far he's progressed from my coaching yet those little green numbers in hold'em manager haven't reflected it yet. I have faith that things will be turning around for him soon and he's just too good for his monetary results to not shine through sooner or later.

Perhaps alex can elaborate, but I think he'd say that one thing that has helped his bad run is having someone there to bounce hands and ideas off of. He's posted some good hands in my students-only forum and had some good feedback from my other students to both affirm his correct plays and advise him on his incorrect thoughts. I'd encourage you guys who are running bad to do the same, either with friends on AIM or in the DeucesCracked forums.

Posted over 6 years ago

tubasteve

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7647 posts
Joined 11/2007

is changing seats really considered unethical in HSNL? i dont really understand why it would be when other things like coaching arent considered unethical. i always assumed this was b/c theres no "one player to a hand rule". hell FTP has a "seat change" button so THAT is clearly allowed in the rules.

Posted over 6 years ago

Percula

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20 posts
Joined 05/2008

is changing seats really considered unethical in HSNL? i dont really understand why it would be when other things like coaching arent considered unethical. i always assumed this was b/c theres no "one player to a hand rule". hell FTP has a "seat change" button so THAT is clearly allowed in the rules.



While I really can not speak so much for online, in a live game changing seats to get position on someone can definitely result in "bad impression, bad feelings". I have seen in a big home one time where a new player wanted to take a seat to get position on a tilting player, the tilting player told him if he sat down next to him, he could collect his teeth at the front door... But I have also been in games where players are playing musical chairs all night and only get laughed too. YMMV...

Posted over 6 years ago

WiltOnTilt

Avatar for WiltOnTilt

2652 posts
Joined 10/2007

is changing seats really considered unethical in HSNL? i dont really understand why it would be when other things like coaching arent considered unethical. i always assumed this was b/c theres no "one player to a hand rule". hell FTP has a "seat change" button so THAT is clearly allowed in the rules.



i think if jay and those guys are playing 300/600nl and someone leaves guy's left or david b's left and i think it's a pretty dick move if everyone immediately clicks the stand up button and it's a race to see who can get the seat on the left and then everyone re-sits down at their old seat when they missed the jesus seat and play continues. i think it's less obvious and note worthy if it happens at a 50nl table where there are 35 tables running instead of the single, high profile, nosebleed game running.

Posted over 6 years ago

xerxesthegod

Avatar for xerxesthegod

839 posts
Joined 01/2008

Alex I'm really inetressted in your winrate since you began your coaching with WOT. Do you mind sharing this with us???
I still don't understand how some guys can come up with 7-8BB/100 winrates even in loose games.

Posted over 6 years ago

fishtastic

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203 posts
Joined 07/2008

I really love this series so far and am eagerly awaiting further episodes.

Posted over 6 years ago

udownwithvpp

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1143 posts
Joined 04/2008

I like the AJ call when drc 3bet.

I really like the AK turn check at the end. Yeah it sucks that he had a huge draw, but you're paying him off if you bet the turn and he hits anyways. It really confuses them with Ax and like wilt said, they're not ever folding an ace on the river.

When wilt was going over all the stats I too was reminded of fruitypro. I know some people like all the hud stuff up, but I started 2 tabling with no hud up a week ago and I think I play a lot better this way.

Posted over 6 years ago

WhiteHeatSYD

Avatar for WhiteHeatSYD

Real Life Grinder
847 posts
Joined 09/2007

Dealing with a downswing!

As Wilt has become a posting machine, whilst I slept. I didn't want to be out done. Here is my 'experienced' view on downswings. I did a post on it a couple of months ago, will try and find that as well.

‘At some stage you will run worst than you can ever imagine’. I have heard those words so many times and just discarded them. Well it finally happened to me. It just happens to coincide with working with WiltOnTilt. To be honest the experience other the last two months has been one of the most rewarding, and one of the most difficult poker ‘eras’ that I have had.

I feel that my game has improved beyond recognition since I have started working with Aaron. I am learning more and more by the day, and feel the excitement of being able to make moves, or put some one on a range and get it right. I think that Aaron has helped with so many aspects of the game. I would say that I have become a lot better player.

I felt that I have had to relearn the game. Which has made to me making mistakes, which may have compounded my downswing? Sorry if this is a long winded way to get in to how I dealt with my downswing, but felt it is important to give a flavour of the experience so far.

With everyday that pasted I became more and more frustrated with my game. It just didn’t seem to stick. I would make a few buyins, and then get coolered for four, and the cycle would continue. I analysed how I was playing hands to much, and over working scenarios. I felt that the only way to get out of it was to play hands, hands and more hands. Which now I realise was the wrong way to approach it. I would rather play 500 optimally than 5000 sub-optimally. There is no sense in trying to get even; if you are not playing you’re a-game. I think that emotionally it is not worth it. I mean, I live in my opinion the greatest city in the world. I should be making the most of it. Instead of playing 1200 hand sessions. By trying to get even you are sacrificing everything in life that is important. At the end of the day poker is a game (a great one at that) but only a game. It look me until last week to take a complete break from poker, and to re-rationalise my life. The more that you try and get even the worst you compound your downswing. From my point of view, I stopped training, was thinking poker 24-7, and putting myself under far too much pressure to make it, both for myself and DC. I had become emotionally attached to the game, which I feel under no circumstances you should be. At the end of the day, we make the decision to sit at that table; no one is forcing us to do it. So we have to live with what happens at the table. I started to wonder what my life had become. A winning or losing session would effect how I carried myself for the next day. I have had to make the decision myself to detach myself from the results of the game.

This leads me on to the do’s and don’ts of dealing with a downswing.

DO
Take a break from the game.
Keep posting hand histories on the forums.
Look at other people’s blogs that are/have experiencing the same as you.
Go and do something else that you enjoy.
Look for support from your poker friends.
Get people to sweat sessions so that you can check your lines.
Realise what is important and what is not.
Move down a level to get your confidence back.
Go back to the basics, TAG style.
Watch lots of DC videos.
Keep studying the game, even if the results don't improve your knowledge will.
Go and get drunk with your friends.

DON’T
Play mega sessions to get even.
Add more tables, to try and beat variance.
Let everything else in your life become second place.
Look at your results every 10 minutes of a session.
Become to hung up on graphs, stats and all in expected Value.
Become a victim, look for solutions not blame.
Tilt, if only....

The thing that has helped me get through the last couple of months is the support of Aaron and his community. I feel that the guys on his coaching forum are an awesome sounding board. They have kept me going. I also chat a lot on Skype to Drc13 which is a great help.

To conclude, I will come out of this a better player for the experience. I strongly believe in my ability as a poker player, and so feel that things have to turn around for me in the long run. Success doesn’t happen over night, and I continue to put a great deal of time and effort to improve as a poker player. I think that no one has had an easy ride to the top, but with the support and resources around me I will make it to certain level. Sorry if this is a bit personal, but feel that I want to give my experience ‘warts and all’. I am also very proud to be involved with DC, and anything I can give back to our community I will.

A couple of books I would recommend reading – Elements of Poker, and the Poker Mindset.

As for my winrate, I have started a new database after my break, as I now feel ready to start crushing the game in the next few months. Will give you an update on 25k hands as only play 3k hands since my break last week.

If any one has questions, please post. Or PM me.

Posted over 6 years ago

xerxesthegod

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839 posts
Joined 01/2008

Sorry to hear you are on adownswing man. What you just eplained is my life since last month. Anyway Let me reformulate my question. Do you think you can have a 7-8BB/100 hands while being sweated by WOT or more precisley is it possible for a player like WOT to beat NL50 or NL100 for that kind of winrate???

Posted over 6 years ago

WhiteHeatSYD

Avatar for WhiteHeatSYD

Real Life Grinder
847 posts
Joined 09/2007

Sorry to hear you are on adownswing man. What you just eplained is my life since last month. Anyway Let me reformulate my question. Do you think you can have a 7-8BB/100 hands while being sweated by WOT or more precisley is it possible for a player like WOT to beat NL50 or NL100 for that kind of winrate???



I think that it is definately do able. I hope to prove this over the next 25k of hands (but you would have to do it on a large sample to get a fair answer). With WoT sweating me, it makes it more likely. We will see how the next few weeks pan out, and then I will tell you yes or no.

Posted over 6 years ago

StnBuddha70

Avatar for StnBuddha70

824 posts
Joined 05/2008

Hey guys. I'm a fairly new member and I want to say that I'm very, very glad I joined. Episode 2 was another great learning experience, as were the questions and discussion about various hands and lines of play.

I look forward to the rest of the series and hope to read about WhiteHeat's detached Zenlike response to his upcoming sic , sic heater!!!

Keep up the great work.

Cheers everyone!

Posted over 6 years ago

tubasteve

Avatar for tubasteve

7647 posts
Joined 11/2007

Sorry to hear you are on adownswing man. What you just eplained is my life since last month. Anyway Let me reformulate my question. Do you think you can have a 7-8BB/100 hands while being sweated by WOT or more precisley is it possible for a player like WOT to beat NL50 or NL100 for that kind of winrate???



its definitely possible to get 7-8ptbb, maybe even 10ptbb if you arent heavily multitabling and datamine

Posted over 6 years ago

action_jp

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1399 posts
Joined 02/2008

Alex,

I hope you get out of your downswing sooner rather than later - from what I've seen you definitely have run pretty bad imo, so hopefully that'll turn around Smile.

Another thing from my experience - when you are deliberately trying to adjust the way you play the game, whether it's based on advice you get from coaching or an attempt to change your style - it'll take time to incorporate these elements into your game successfully. I used to be a pretty nitty 200nl regular earlier in the year (around Jan-Feb) running 18/13/3 sort of stats. One day I decided to switch it up and start playing more loose, aiming for around 24/20/3.. What I found when I dropped down to 100nl to try that was that I was getting into far more marginal spots, my image changed, the relative value of my hands changed, and combined with running bad at 200nl (dropping around 15BIs), it got bad enough to cause me to take a break from the game for a while.

Nowadays I definitely feel more comfortable running a looser game preflop (around 21/16/2.5 for the last mth) and postflop but it really did take a while to adjust to playing differently to a style that you developed over hundreds of thousands of hands. Furthermore, I'm sure you'll learn how to run better and flop quads or oversets like I do too..

Cheers & GL
JP

Posted over 6 years ago

CoRdo

Avatar for CoRdo

145 posts
Joined 05/2008

Dunno if you tryed other sites @ NL 50 but imo FTP is the toughest and most aggressive site on this stakes, i played there about 50k hands on nl 50 and had just such massive swings due this aggressive donks. For me playing @ Stars or Party is way more softer and the fish are more passive

Posted over 6 years ago

WhiteHeatSYD

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Real Life Grinder
847 posts
Joined 09/2007

Hi Cordo,

Thanks for the advice. I play a bit on Eurolinx as it is soft and like to mix it up, but I am not really interesting in my short term results. So want to play in the games that are difficult, so that when I do move up. I will be ready. But this is something that WoT have discussed.

Alex

Posted over 6 years ago

Percula

Avatar for Percula

20 posts
Joined 05/2008

Alex,

Thanks for the write up on running bad. I look forward to the episode you talk more about it and I look forward to Aaron's take on it too.

Posted over 6 years ago

aidanok

Avatar for aidanok

34 posts
Joined 06/2008

Great vid guys.
Alex, I think I've read that old post of yours from 2+2 about five times over the past year or so I've been playing seriously. I feel every time I hit a bad run or somehow leave some elements of my game away from the table, I've stumbled upon it and it has (along with other sources) offered me the direction to work on my game away from the table, recoup, retool and ultimately move up in stakes..

A question - the loose donkey on our left on the left table, if his fold to cbet % had been lower, how would you have been adjusting your opening ranges and cbetting / two barrelling frequencies to compensate especially OOP..

Posted over 6 years ago

WhiteHeatSYD

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Real Life Grinder
847 posts
Joined 09/2007



A question - the loose donkey on our left on the left table, if his fold to cbet % had been lower, how would you have been adjusting your opening ranges and cbetting / two barrelling frequencies to compensate especially OOP..



I think that you need to be doing the reverse of them. I would be tightening up my range a bit, and value betting second pair etc. If you can’t shift people off any flop, there is no need to get into marginal situations with him. I prefer to wait for a hand and just value town them. So I would say that it is a game of patience. Looking at the VPIP, Fold to C-bet and WTSD as a combo, is a good indicator for your plan for the flop. I think you are spewing money by trying to take it away from them if they are never folding.

Posted over 6 years ago

Syndr0m

Avatar for Syndr0m

15 posts
Joined 08/2008


DON’T
...
Look at your results every 10 minutes of a session.
...



Hahaha I so recognize this one.

Posted about 6 years ago

akcbr954

Avatar for akcbr954

1 posts
Joined 07/2008

Dunno if it has been asked previously, but is there a file config for the HUD setup.


this

Posted about 6 years ago

MajorHassle

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31 posts
Joined 07/2008

Hey guys. I'm a fairly new member and I want to say that I'm so glad I joined DC.just watching this series was well worth it.Episode 2 was another great learning experience, as were the questions and discussion about various hands by both WiltOntTilt and WhiteHeatSYD brilliant stuff keep up the good work. and thanks Smile

Posted about 6 years ago

Avataar

Avatar for Avataar

1 posts
Joined 10/2008

Alex - thanks for your downswing essay. I think it describes almost exactly my experience too, and your do's and don'ts are fantastic.

Great series, guys

Greetings from Sunny South Africa

Posted almost 6 years ago

Acombfosho

Avatar for Acombfosho

3147 posts
Joined 06/2008


DON’T
...
Look at your results every 10 minutes of a session.


...



Hahaha I so recognize this one.



lol
+1

Posted almost 6 years ago

curious-d

Avatar for curious-d

13 posts
Joined 07/2008

Great video guys!

Just watched it and have a question for WoT...

One hour in Alex picks up AKo in the SB and it gets raised UTG by 995994. Alex elects to 3-bet and 995994 calls. After 995 calls the cbet on the A4T rainbow board, I'm not sure I agree with checking the turn, especially due to Alex's remaining stack size and the board texture. 995's flop action seems to indicate either a very strong hand (ie. set of 4s, AT, but more likely AQ, AJ, A9, 55-99, KQ, QJ). This range is deduced in combination from his pf action with his flop action, of course. Therefore, especially when the 8d comes on the turn bringing the flush draw, I feel there are a lot of combination draws AdQd, KdQd, QdJd, 9dJd, and just generally Ax hands, as mentioned, which will probably call a pot-sized bet on the turn but still be behind our AK. Plus, if Alex checks, there is a still a small chance that 995 will push AI on the turn, and then are we really comfortable snap calling with only TPTK for the rest of our stack? (Maybe I'm forgetting how loose 995 was in this video?)

As the hand played out I feel that to some degree Alex was lucky to get the river call from second pair (QJ), though I guess you guys had some specific reads on this opponent. However, given 995's flush draw and double-gut shot on the turn (with QdJd), my guess is he would most probably be calling Alex's AI bet on the turn, so why not make the bet then, avoiding a possibly difficult river decision? I feel this might be superior to checking the turn and shoving (any?) river, but I'd love to hear your comments on this line of thinking. It could be that I am 2-barrelling my TPTK hands too much and missing value when I could check one street and induce a bluff. Not sure.

Posted almost 6 years ago

cjpoker22

Avatar for cjpoker22

544 posts
Joined 03/2008

I am new to this nl thing being mostly a stt and lhe player, but I am now wanting to add nl to my games as well. I can't for the life of me figure out why we would call w AJ at 43 min. Someone posted that we can get an overcall from the fish. Do we want to be in a multiway pot w AJ? During the vid WOT said that we can jam some flops if it is checked to us? What flops would those be? How often would someone 3bet pf and then check flop? We did have some data on the 3bettor so is that the reason? He is a dc member or 2+2er so he can be 3 betting light oop here? I know part of NL is not playing your cards but I can't figure out how to continue if we do call. Have a plan and I don't have one! Do we jam an A or J here? I wouldn't feel comfortable with a one pair hand here too much. I would be calling pf and folding a huge range of flops. I hope this post isn't too late as I am catching up on vids, and because I really like this series. But I am lost here.

Posted over 5 years ago

cjpoker22

Avatar for cjpoker22

544 posts
Joined 03/2008

I am new to this nl thing being mostly a stt and lhe player, but I am now wanting to add nl to my games as well. I can't for the life of me figure out why we would call w AJ at 43 min. Someone posted that we can get an overcall from the fish. Do we want to be in a multiway pot w AJ? During the vid WOT said that we can jam some flops if it is checked to us? What flops would those be? How often would someone 3bet pf and then check flop? We did have some data on the 3bettor so is that the reason? He is a dc member or 2+2er so he can be 3 betting light oop here? I know part of NL is not playing your cards but I can't figure out how to continue if we do call. Have a plan and I don't have one! Do we jam an A or J here? I wouldn't feel comfortable with a one pair hand here too much. I would be calling pf and folding a huge range of flops. I hope this post isn't too late as I am catching up on vids, and because I really like this series. But I am lost here.


Is this a hand we are going to make a play with exclusively? ie if the board comes really dry we raise his cbet?

Posted over 5 years ago

WiltOnTilt

Avatar for WiltOnTilt

2652 posts
Joined 10/2007

Hi CJ, I just re-watched the video and re-listened to my explanation and I think I pretty much said about all I know how to say on the issue, but I'll try to rehash the main points.

1. we said in the video that the squeezer is a good DC member who alex is familiar with and who can have a very wide range here.

2. we don't mind playing a multiway pot with a hand that can easily dominate the overcall (who was a fish)

3. we figure to get an honest flop action from the squeezer if it's 3 ways to the flop. in other words, drc is a good player, he's not going to blindly fire all board textures into 2 opponents on lots of flops.

4. if the pot is heads up, we can ship over his cbet a lot because a) he'll be cbetting more vs just 1 player and b) his range pf is really wide and c) with AJ we'll likely have either the best hand or 2 overcards to the board a fair amount or we'll be able to get him off some better hands (for instance he squeezes AK, flops all low, cbets and we ship and he folds). We're planning to play aggressively on a wide range of flops here if the hand is heads up to the flop. 1 high card dry boards, or 3 cards T and below, etc. plus sometimes we'll actually hit a pair and have the best hand (sometimes the worst hand). That's when we get to play poker and try to make the best decisions we can based on board texture and bet sizes.

I hope that helps.
WoT

Posted over 5 years ago

Magaca

Avatar for Magaca

186 posts
Joined 01/2008

Sorry for bumping such an old video, but i have a question for a hand in this vid. Smile

At 48:20 at the table on the right, how do you like betting the turn and shoving the river instead of just giving up? I mean, since since he lead 2$ in ~8$ into 2 people on a semi-drawy flop i think we can cap his range a bit? I don't think he ever has a strong 8. His strongest hand is probably something like J8, and his most likely hands are weak 8's, 4's, 55-77 and flushdraws. So i was thinking if we bet ~10$ on the turn that would leave us with a $41,8 shove into $45,9 on the river.

Thoughts?

Posted about 5 years ago

WiltOnTilt

Avatar for WiltOnTilt

2652 posts
Joined 10/2007

Sorry for bumping such an old video, but i have a question for a hand in this vid. Smile

At 48:20 at the table on the right, how do you like betting the turn and shoving the river instead of just giving up? I mean, since since he lead 2$ in ~8$ into 2 people on a semi-drawy flop i think we can cap his range a bit? I don't think he ever has a strong 8. His strongest hand is probably something like J8, and his most likely hands are weak 8's, 4's, 55-77 and flushdraws. So i was thinking if we bet ~10$ on the turn that would leave us with a $41,8 shove into $45,9 on the river.

Thoughts?



Yes, you are definitely correct. I think my focus during this time was too much on the left table and I missed that opportunity to bet turn and river to get him off close to 100% of his range there. Good catch and I'm glad you're thinking about this stuff. Looking for each spot to exploit like this will help you greatly improve your theoretical winrate and help you move up in stakes that much quicker.

Excellent point.

Posted about 5 years ago

Chris MintZ

Avatar for Chris MintZ

556 posts
Joined 07/2009

Great Video Guys looking forward to finishing the series. Also I love the in dept analysis you do for every hand it gets me to look at poker in different ways.

Posted almost 5 years ago

Joeyg50

Avatar for Joeyg50

435 posts
Joined 05/2009

Time Link to 00:30:02

vs microstakes donks alot of them check their flush draws.... is this just a read on standard tags?

Posted over 4 years ago

WiltOnTilt

Avatar for WiltOnTilt

2652 posts
Joined 10/2007

vs microstakes donks alot of them check their flush draws.... is this just a read on standard tags?



its more just a commentary on how people read hands as a standard. If they know we're a tag/thinking player, they shouldn't give us credit for having a flush very often. If they don't know anything about us, then they have to go by what the "average" player at these stakes do. Does the average player check behind their flush draws?

Posted over 4 years ago

Ryllban

Avatar for Ryllban

11 posts
Joined 10/2009

Hello, great video! Smile

Just whonder one thing. How do I set up the stats like you guys have it? I know hos to import stats like you showed in the first session but I dont know how to set them up lke you have on the video. An answer would be so great! Smile

Posted about 4 years ago

WiltOnTilt

Avatar for WiltOnTilt

2652 posts
Joined 10/2007

Hello, great video! Smile

Just whonder one thing. How do I set up the stats like you guys have it? I know hos to import stats like you showed in the first session but I dont know how to set them up lke you have on the video. An answer would be so great! Smile



Hi, check out this vid by DJ Sensei, it explains how to set up the HUD:

http://www.deucescracked.com/videos/26-Tool_Time/260-Using_the_Holdem_Manager_HUD

Also here's the HEM forum where people share their HUDs, so u could just download one if you didnt want to set it up manually.

http://forums.holdemmanager.com/share-your-hud-configurations/

Good luck!
WoT

Posted about 4 years ago

Ryllban

Avatar for Ryllban

11 posts
Joined 10/2009

Hi, check out this vid by DJ Sensei, it explains how to set up the HUD:

http://www.deucescracked.com/videos/26-Tool_Time/260-Using_the_Holdem_Manager_HUD

Also here's the HEM forum where people share their HUDs, so u could just download one if you didnt want to set it up manually.

http://forums.holdemmanager.com/share-your-hud-configurations/

Good luck!
WoT




Thanks! Grin

Posted about 4 years ago

Jojo5678

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24 posts
Joined 08/2010

Great video. Just started watching this episode Smile

Posted about 4 years ago

ManuE1

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5 posts
Joined 11/2010

soleztis

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DC Dalai Lama
1026 posts
Joined 09/2010

Time Link to 00:18:27

I might be jumping way ahead here as i still have several videos to watch in the series, but after commenting on what a maniac the guy on you left is on table 1 does position and table selection come into mind at all, and what are your general thoughts of table selection at the micro/small stakes?

Posted almost 4 years ago

WiltOnTilt

Avatar for WiltOnTilt

2652 posts
Joined 10/2007

I might be jumping way ahead here as i still have several videos to watch in the series, but after commenting on what a maniac the guy on you left is on table 1 does position and table selection come into mind at all, and what are your general thoughts of table selection at the micro/small stakes?




i think you should get the best position and table select as much as possible regardless of what stakes you're playing. the only exception is making obvious seat changes to gain position on the fish (where it's not unlikely that he will know what you are doing, feel threatened, leave the game etc). Another exception is keeping tables open to scalp the table when another reg is sitting at a table alone trying to start a game, then a fish sits in, then you sit on their left. That's a douchebag move that happens to me all the time at high stakes, but it's part of the deal. That shouldn't effect you for a while though.

Other than that, table select to the max regardless of the stakes without being a prick/douche about it.

If you are having trouble with someone on your left, you have a few choices:

a) tighten up your opening standards and loosen your standards to play back/call down

b) don't tighten up, play back more, try to level him more or frustrate him into making more mistakes (ie, fight fire with fire) so you can gain more experience/skill

c) move tables or seats if you don't want to mess with it.

I think all are valid options and I have done all of them at various points in my career or on various days where I'm feeling either very good/confident or bad/crummy and just want to grind without thinking too hard.

WoT

Posted almost 4 years ago

Dodgy_007

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11 posts
Joined 07/2010

Time Link to 00:37:42

I notice WhiteHeatSYD has been hitting the muck button.

I have auto muck on as I want to show as little of my hole cards as possible. Is there a reason not to and maybe show some hands ?

Posted over 3 years ago

Dodgy_007

Avatar for Dodgy_007

11 posts
Joined 07/2010

Time Link to 00:55:09

Quote "Were just not getting any hands"

If like this a table dry's up on you should you stick with the table as you got HEM stats over a number of hands or unlike live just get up and find a better table ?

Posted over 3 years ago

Dodgy_007

Avatar for Dodgy_007

11 posts
Joined 07/2010

Nice video but the sound on WHiteHeatSYD was cutting in and out, SKYPE lol

Nice to see I'm already doing some that your suggesting.

I open raise 4XBB, I CB 3/4 on a non draw/flushy board and if I hit the Draw or Flush I pot bet.

looking forward to the rest Smile

Posted over 3 years ago

Dodgy_007

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11 posts
Joined 07/2010

Live Game

I see guys changing seats all the time at The Vic London (The Victoria Casino)

No one bats an eye lid I even do it myself plus if I run bad I'll sit out as I think I disrupted the order of cards that is my destiny lol

I know BS lol

Posted over 3 years ago

WiltOnTilt

Avatar for WiltOnTilt

2652 posts
Joined 10/2007

I notice WhiteHeatSYD has been hitting the muck button.

I have auto muck on as I want to show as little of my hole cards as possible. Is there a reason not to and maybe show some hands ?



I'm not sure I understand what you mean? Do you mean that if you have auto muck on then your opponents will assume you had some total trash that you were never calling with, as opposed to a hand you might consider calling with?

BTW in terms of the strategy content at this link, this is a good example of a situation where the games have changed and I've evolved my opinions a bit. I like alex's fold with the KJo vs a 20/13 oop, however I made it sound like a blanket statement where I would never flat call that type of hand oop. This is absolutely no longer the case for me vs steal situations vs regs. I teach my mid/high stakes students to flat these hands oop vs steals all the time and play aggressively on a variety of board textures either donk betting or check raising or trying to flop a pair with a kicker that is dominating a lot of their steal range. Back when these videos first came out, it was a little more reasonable to fold these types of hands vs more opponents. Nowadays people are stealing too wide for this to be a fold.

WoT

Posted over 3 years ago

WiltOnTilt

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Quote "Were just not getting any hands"

If like this a table dry's up on you should you stick with the table as you got HEM stats over a number of hands or unlike live just get up and find a better table ?



If the table is good I'd keep playing even if I seem card dead. If we think we can find a better table, we should go get on another one, but of course that is true whether or not we're getting lots of hands or getting no hands.

Posted over 3 years ago

WiltOnTilt

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Live Game

I see guys changing seats all the time at The Vic London (The Victoria Casino)

No one bats an eye lid I even do it myself plus if I run bad I'll sit out as I think I disrupted the order of cards that is my destiny lol

I know BS lol



haha, yea, makes no difference but if you can get a better seat on a fish that is a good thing. of course don't make it obvious that you're trying to rush to his left for better table position. Using that excuse about mixing up the order of the cards could be a good way of masking your intentions, since we know it makes no difference but many people believe it Smile

Posted over 3 years ago

Lofix82

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Time Link to 00:27:15

Right table

If our hand would be KT, AT would it be ok to double barrel? I think yes, but want to make sure. What with QT?

Posted over 3 years ago

WiltOnTilt

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Right table

If our hand would be KT, AT would it be ok to double barrel? I think yes, but want to make sure. What with QT?



There could be value to be had on the turn but if I bet the turn for value I'd be inclined to bluff the river.

The problem with betting the turn in isolation is that we can get some value from some draws, but that turn brings so many combinations of 2pair and straight that we need him to be calling us with worse tens and draws very often.

Vs most standard players I would be inclined to check the turn, but vs very loose/very bad players I don't mind value betting the turn with the option of turning our hand into a bluff on some rivers, assuming we think we can get him off 2pair. If he can't ever fold 2pair, then it's just a question of how many worse hands we can give him on the turn to call. It's probably very close, depending on how often he calls with worse Tx and if he has any of the offsuit connectors in his range, or if it's only the suited ones.

Posted over 3 years ago

Lofix82

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Time Link to 00:05:24

Reason for not c-betting this flop QTs.?

a) you were dealing with an interesting spot on the right table and we should be c-betting
b) we don't want to be raised out of the pot by an aggro opponent

My thinking is that our hand have some value and we don't want to get raised on this flop. A lot of good cards may come on the turn. Sometimes our hand may be even the best here.

If I had like 77 i think I c-bet this flop and fold to a raise. If called I plan to check it down to the showdown.

Does it sound reasonable?

Posted over 3 years ago

WiltOnTilt

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it's definitely a cbet, probably he was just focusing on the other table

Posted over 3 years ago

pkrvamp

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Re-watching the series and was curious about the bvsb raise against moneysan at 15:45. We have a loose fish that is calling a lot of hands and calling a lot of cbets. Why are we opening this hand then cbetting? I understand that if a player doesn't defend enough, we can steal 100% here but this player calls so much. I can understand the hand is good enough to have good implied odds against the fish but then the cbet on the flop seems a little loose. I think this is done a few times in the video and it confuses me bc he calls pf every time.

Posted over 3 years ago

WiltOnTilt

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Re-watching the series and was curious about the bvsb raise against moneysan at 15:45. We have a loose fish that is calling a lot of hands and calling a lot of cbets. Why are we opening this hand then cbetting? I understand that if a player doesn't defend enough, we can steal 100% here but this player calls so much. I can understand the hand is good enough to have good implied odds against the fish but then the cbet on the flop seems a little loose. I think this is done a few times in the video and it confuses me bc he calls pf every time.



Good question. The better you are vs a player the more inclined you should be to play hands with them. It's true that our initial open raise probably has little fold equity, but given that we are better hand readers and better players overall and well bet size well and barrel well I like opening these hands vs fish. Remember the looser he is pre, the less he will connect postflop. Don't get into the mindset of "omg he's so loose he never folds" - instead just realize that the wider he peels pre, wider he peels on the flop, the more we need to barrel turns and decide based on board texture if we should barrel rivers.

Now this type of thing makes a lot of small stakes and inexperienced players very nervous "barreling fish? LOL what are you talking about Aaron!" - well, we aren't bluffing to get him off top pair or even middle pair, we're bluffing to get him off all the combinations of hands that simply cannot stand another bet.

In this example we flop nothing but backdoors but if you count up the combinations of hands that simply never call assuming they dont flop at least a gutshot or a pair vs a guy who is 70vpip we can very easily just bet 2/3 pot and profit on our bet. Now if we take it a step further and say OK maybe the turn rolls off a 8, we bet agin and we expect him to fold bottom pair and his gutshots on the turn, I bet we can bet half pot again and print money (34, 35, 45, KQ, QT, KT all gutshots on this dry board!)

Now if you aren't confident in your hand reading/board texture reading skills and you don't like getting into spots where you have to value bet thinly and bluff thinly vs fish, feel free to just fold this hand... but don't stop the analysis at "we have 7 high vs a guy who likes to click call" because we can profit simply by bluffing him off his air when he's sooooo loose. (and obviously get huge value when we actually hit something)

Hope that helps

Posted over 3 years ago

pkrvamp

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81 posts
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Thanks Aaron. Appreciate your thorough explination. Trying to use my time wisely since BF. The series helped my game a lot the first time. Hoping i will see better results when I can start playing again.

Posted over 3 years ago

tHeBoYmUsTdIe

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1530 posts
Joined 01/2010

16:32

Why are we folding A5s here on the button? Is it because they are both half stacks? We have no known squeezers in the blinds so it seems like the perfect hand to see a multiway flop IP.

Also WoT just curious what some 'trademark' signs of unaware opponents would be? Do we just make attempts to play exploitably vs. likely players until they adjust? Or are there other signs we might be aware of?

Posted about 3 years ago

WiltOnTilt

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Joined 10/2007

16:32

Why are we folding A5s here on the button? Is it because they are both half stacks? We have no known squeezers in the blinds so it seems like the perfect hand to see a multiway flop IP.



A bit of a marginal spot with both of their stack sizes, but given that they both look like fish I don't mind if you want to call there. I was in the middle of talking so thats probably why I didn't comment on it.


Also WoT just curious what some 'trademark' signs of unaware opponents would be? Do we just make attempts to play exploitably vs. likely players until they adjust? Or are there other signs we might be aware of?



Mostly yes, just play exploitably vs likely fish until you find a reason not to, but some signs to look for that the guy isn't aware of whats going on: them passing on very obvious balancing spots vs other regs, seeing someone massively spew vs a huge nit, seeing someone miss a value bet vs you on the river where they would likely be bluffing, etc. Anything like that where it seems like they are just playing their hand and not really thinking about other considerations. It's not always easy to tell, but as you're watching hands that play out and you see someone do something different than what you'd do, note it and think more about how that shapes their overall gameplan (or shows a lack of a game plan) then try to use that against them.

Posted about 3 years ago

Kwon11

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Time Link to 00:14:32

I don't understand, if he has a huge range pre-flop, why would that make him miss boards like 3 9 A? doesn't his pre-flop range mean he has 3's and 9's in his range?

Posted almost 3 years ago

WiltOnTilt

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I don't understand, if he has a huge range pre-flop, why would that make him miss boards like 3 9 A? doesn't his pre-flop range mean he has 3's and 9's in his range?



if he can have 3's and 9's, think of all the other hands he can have that don't connect. also there are very few draws here, which means even fewer hands connect in some way.

Posted almost 3 years ago

evprop

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Time point... 26:26ish

We iso AQs on the btn and have the fish on the left in the SB call and the original ep limper call as well, i think you were about to suggest something on what our actions could be but then the original limper in ep bets out.... what if it was checked to us??

Is this a check and give up spot for the same reasons such as they have a decent amount of equity against us on this board?

If we did elect to cbet when checked to us the turn actually comes the Q which would have made things really interesting as the fish makes a donk half pot bet, again what would we do here??

Posted over 2 years ago

M_Hutcho

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Joined 02/2012

WiltOnTilt

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Time point... 26:26ish

We iso AQs on the btn and have the fish on the left in the SB call and the original ep limper call as well, i think you were about to suggest something on what our actions could be but then the original limper in ep bets out.... what if it was checked to us??

Is this a check and give up spot for the same reasons such as they have a decent amount of equity against us on this board?

If we did elect to cbet when checked to us the turn actually comes the Q which would have made things really interesting as the fish makes a donk half pot bet, again what would we do here??



if they checked to us, we have 2 options, either check and take a free one and probably fold to turn bets or we can bet with the intention of starting a multistreet barrel. We have to be a little careful with the second option because of the one guy's stack size being a bit short, but it's still not an unreasonable plan. I'd like it a little better if we had the A or Q of diamonds though.

On this board people are generally going to play their strong hands fast, so if we bet and get checkraised it's not a massive loss for us. If we bet and they c/c, their hand is usually pretty defined as something that isn't going to be real happy with calling down 3 streets. That is a generalization, but it's usually true. They might still have 88 here and not be happy about calling but they still will etc. So we have to make some kind of judgement call about which turns and rivers we want to keep firing and how we expect them to react with different parts of their range.

All in all, the more straight forward they are, the more I'd like to just bet with my likely 6 outs and barrel off if any reasonably good turn or river cards come for bluffing (not-board pairing cards and probably not 4 straight cards). If they are more aggressive and willing to play a lot of weak draws fast here (like they are going to take something like T8s here and always checkraise it or very often take a hand like KQ with backdoor diamonds and always checkraise it) then you might want to just take a free one off and perhaps bluff catch some turns.

Posted over 2 years ago

davesmi

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I know that this is an old video, but its still great! WoT is one of the best coaches out there!

Posted over 2 years ago

WiltOnTilt

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I know that this is an old video, but its still great! WoT is one of the best coaches out there!



thanks man!

Posted over 2 years ago

UnknownQ

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Joined 03/2012

Time Link to 00:22:48

how come we cbet so big here with nothing after talking about bluffing small and vbetting big?

Posted about 2 years ago

WiltOnTilt

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how come we cbet so big here with nothing after talking about bluffing small and vbetting big?



you're right, good catch

Posted about 2 years ago

minimalist

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177 posts
Joined 09/2011


DON’T

Look at your results every 10 minutes of a session.



I have managed to beat tilt for 90%+ of my sessions at this point, but I still have some impatience, and as a result am guilty of this. Not every 10 minutes, but definitely will check my Active Session stats in HEM2 a few times per session. Thank you for reminding me not to focus on this, my goal is to get down to checking only once or twice a session, then eventually not at all during, only once I am finished. Smile

Posted almost 2 years ago

WiltOnTilt

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I have managed to beat tilt for 90%+ of my sessions at this point, but I still have some impatience, and as a result am guilty of this. Not every 10 minutes, but definitely will check my Active Session stats in HEM2 a few times per session. Thank you for reminding me not to focus on this, my goal is to get down to checking only once or twice a session, then eventually not at all during, only once I am finished. Smile



I also have to work on this still, every now and then.

Yesterday I checked my results for the past 1.5 months, I hadn't looked since september for the aggregated results, but I still checked a few times for individual sites or sessions. It definitely helps to take these things out of your thought process as much as possible. One less thing to waste brain cycles on when there are already so many things to consider while playing.

Posted almost 2 years ago

minimalist

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Thanks for your reply, it is awesome to know that even after several years, you still take the time to reply to comments. Smile

By the way, I recently checked out you blog. Insta-bookmarked!

Posted almost 2 years ago

WiltOnTilt

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Thanks for your reply, it is awesome to know that even after several years, you still take the time to reply to comments. Smile

By the way, I recently checked out you blog. Insta-bookmarked!



thanks! unfortuntaely i suck at updating it but maybe i'll get motivated at some point Smile I'm also on twitter @wiltontilt where I post more regularly

Posted almost 2 years ago

minimalist

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That works for me. Following! Gave your Gary Johnson tweet some RT love as well. If anyone else scanning this thread is on Twitter, I would highly advise you do the same.

Posted almost 2 years ago

hobz

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Joined 09/2013

Time Link to 00:50:31

I know this video is 5 years old, but hoping you might be able to comment on this hand analysis here. Is it fair to say that his check-raise is likely a made hand? Most people will either bet draws or check-call draws in my experience, depending on the player. I doubt he tries to turn a strong draw into a bluff by check-raising us, unless its a monster draw and he wants money in the pot. But even then, he's value betting most of the time, unless he's extra tricky.

Also, knowing that he will check-raise top pair like that, how do we adjust for future hands? Just keep this line in the back of our minds, especially on draw heavy boards?

Posted 12 months ago

WiltOnTilt

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I know this video is 5 years old, but hoping you might be able to comment on this hand analysis here. Is it fair to say that his check-raise is likely a made hand? Most people will either bet draws or check-call draws in my experience, depending on the player. I doubt he tries to turn a strong draw into a bluff by check-raising us, unless its a monster draw and he wants money in the pot. But even then, he's value betting most of the time, unless he's extra tricky.

Also, knowing that he will check-raise top pair like that, how do we adjust for future hands? Just keep this line in the back of our minds, especially on draw heavy boards?



Ok, so firstly, these days I probably would not use a hand like 67cc to defend by calling. I don't think it's awful if the guy is getting really out of line but I think just 3betting the flop is a better line when we don't have that much potential on the turn with 7 high. I'd rather just float any gutshot or if I was going to use a backdoor hand I'd rather use like A4cc where at least we have an overcard along with the backdoors.

As far as what the population does with some of their draws here, I think you'll find some people c/c'ing hands like KJ J9 and others c/r'ing them. Same for K9 and 98. Given how much this guy was checkraising, i think putting any/all of those hands in his range would make sense. Keep in mind, we have to use positional vpip stats to get an idea for which of those hands he might be defending in the SB (maybe the suited ones, maybe all, maybe non etc).

I would not expect most people to be checkraising hands like QJ on QT3 as a default since they are awkward to play on turn/river and it's hard to know when you are getting action from worse.

The way to adjust from here is to pound on him when he doesn't checkraise. If he's using hands like QJ for checkraising, what bluff catchers does he have that can stand 3 streets? Also, if you do have a hand that you want to bet/call with, you might start turning more of the weaker bet/calling hands into bluff later when the board runs out poorly for top pairs. Often when someone over-extends themselves in a certain action, the best way to counter them is to win more pots when he doesn't do that.

Posted 12 months ago

hobz

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Thanks Wilt,

That makes pretty good sense - just trying to get a gauge of what we can expect out of check-raises, especially against an aggressive player like this. I guess it takes a more solid read on the player, but he's doing it a lot so maybe there isn't a lot of sense to it, just an aggressive play.

Can you elaborate on the last paragraph a bit more? Are you saying that if he likes to check-raise his good hands, that we can take advantage when he just check-calls, because we are likely to be ahead?

Posted 12 months ago

WiltOnTilt

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Thanks Wilt,

That makes pretty good sense - just trying to get a gauge of what we can expect out of check-raises, especially against an aggressive player like this. I guess it takes a more solid read on the player, but he's doing it a lot so maybe there isn't a lot of sense to it, just an aggressive play.

Can you elaborate on the last paragraph a bit more? Are you saying that if he likes to check-raise his good hands, that we can take advantage when he just check-calls, because we are likely to be ahead?



Ya, so when someone goes super thin for value on his checkraises, like QJ is pretty darn thin, we have to think of how that effects his other ranges. If QJ gets checkraised, then what gets check/called? probably Tx, maybe some draws, maybe really weak Qx ? Either way, it's going to be hard for him to face 3 streets of barrels. This is him being being unbalanced... he's potentially got too much value in one of his ranges (checkraising) which means that his non-checkraising ranges (in this case check call, or donk betting range) are going to suffer because you only get so many good hands.

Similar things can happen when you see a guy only slowplaying his strong hands. What does that mean when he does check raise or lead? Probably too air heavy. When you're playing vs tough opposition, you have to be aware of how each action you take with a certain hand will not only play out in the current scenario, but in the opposite scenario. So if we tell our opponent we check/raise QJ here, we have to be aware that our check/calling range is that much weaker. If you expand this concept out to all of the other ranges and situations, you can easily see how people can get unbalanced very quickly... and usually when I get questions like "this guy is always doing X against me, how can i fight back?" often the answer is let him do X and adjust such that you win way more pots off him than you should when he doesn't do X. In this case, we barrel the hell out of him because he doesn't have enough hands that can face 3 streets of bets when he only check/calls. (we might also decide to not bet/call some of our weaker made hands when he does checkraise since he will be depolarized/thinner value, and we might decide to check behind some of our worst cbets that we have to bet/fold if he's checkraising a lot).

Posted 12 months ago

BrickDaRiver

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Ya, so when someone goes super thin for value on his checkraises, like QJ is pretty darn thin, we have to think of how that effects his other ranges. If QJ gets checkraised, then what gets check/called? probably Tx, maybe some draws, maybe really weak Qx ? Either way, it's going to be hard for him to face 3 streets of barrels. This is him being being unbalanced... he's potentially got too much value in one of his ranges (checkraising) which means that his non-checkraising ranges (in this case check call, or donk betting range) are going to suffer because you only get so many good hands.

Similar things can happen when you see a guy only slowplaying his strong hands. What does that mean when he does check raise or lead? Probably too air heavy. When you're playing vs tough opposition, you have to be aware of how each action you take with a certain hand will not only play out in the current scenario, but in the opposite scenario. So if we tell our opponent we check/raise QJ here, we have to be aware that our check/calling range is that much weaker. If you expand this concept out to all of the other ranges and situations, you can easily see how people can get unbalanced very quickly... and usually when I get questions like "this guy is always doing X against me, how can i fight back?" often the answer is let him do X and adjust such that you win way more pots off him than you should when he doesn't do X. In this case, we barrel the hell out of him because he doesn't have enough hands that can face 3 streets of bets when he only check/calls. (we might also decide to not bet/call some of our weaker made hands when he does checkraise since he will be depolarized/thinner value, and we might decide to check behind some of our worst cbets that we have to bet/fold if he's checkraising a lot).



Thanks Wilt!

Although there have been many times where I have seen villains turn up with weak holdings after aggressive play I have never thought to use this information in other similar situations by adjusting there range when playing more standard/weak lines as well as adjusting for aggressive ones.

Oh and thanks hobz for asking the question.

Posted 3 months ago

WiltOnTilt

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Thanks Wilt!

Although there have been many times where I have seen villains turn up with weak holdings after aggressive play I have never thought to use this information in other similar situations by adjusting there range when playing more standard/weak lines as well as adjusting for aggressive ones.

Oh and thanks hobz for asking the question.



cool, glad it helps Smile also kudos to you for reading through the comments in the video threads (i get the feeling many dont do that). There is a lot of good info sprinkled around them.

Posted 3 months ago

BrickDaRiver

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Joined 07/2014

cool, glad it helps Smile also kudos to you for reading through the comments in the video threads (i get the feeling many dont do that). There is a lot of good info sprinkled around them.



Thanks, yeah there is. Many heads are better than one.

Posted 3 months ago



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