Edmuntus
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PokerPiet
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eraser
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Is the standard 4bet size OOP 28bb to a 9bb 3bet, and a 10bb to 25bb when IP, 100bb deep?
I know that calling 77 would be semi-standard BvB, but you said you have 35%ish equity. You need 36% to call 72bbs to win 200bb!!
Posted over 1 year ago
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Crackmonkey
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thepuma
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jk3a
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With 55, even if you have the best hand, youre out of position with not that much equity. Board can pair, he can hit his overs and will you call another bet on any turn that is not a 5? Dont you just hope, when calling, that hell check it down (then seeing his 67s pair up).
def think it's ok against weaker opponents. you're going to have 70%ish equity alot
Posted over 1 year ago
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jk3a
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Is the standard 4bet size OOP 28bb to a 9bb 3bet, and a 10bb to 25bb when IP, 100bb deep?
I know that calling 77 would be semi-standard BvB, but you said you have 35%ish equity. You need 36% to call 72bbs to win 200bb!!
i think most regs stds are slightly smaller

Posted over 1 year ago
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freakstar
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inspectorgadget
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MCMLXXXVIII
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DiggerTheDog
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on J99Tx
For villian - what tendencies for you wilt - where it would be correct for him to check-back AJ?
If you are only bluff catching better hands and turning made hands into a bluff at a balanced fashion - wouldnt checking back AJ be better?
Posted over 1 year ago
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KingJames_KJ
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DaKaJ
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def think it's ok against weaker opponents. you're going to have 70%ish equity alot
You said the same thing in the vid but thats just wrong, any 2 overcards to ur 55 has at least 40% equity and you're just 50/50 against any gutshot, you never have 70% equity. Calling a small pair 3-ways oop here is definitely a loosing play against anybody decent.
Posted over 1 year ago
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poolsweeper
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fishunho
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Blavdes
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jk3a
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You said the same thing in the vid but thats just wrong, any 2 overcards to ur 55 has at least 40% equity and you're just 50/50 against any gutshot, you never have 70% equity. Calling a small pair 3-ways oop here is definitely a loosing play against anybody decent.
yea 70% might be slightly too big, i got around 65% messing around in pokerstove with different pairs/textures. the word "decent" is quite vague. there are def some players and board textures where I would advise calling, but as a general rule if you always folded, I'm sure if wouldn't cost you much money.
Posted over 1 year ago
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Emergence
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DiggerTheDog
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on J99Tx
For villian - what tendencies for you wilt - where it would be correct for him to check-back AJ?
If you are only bluff catching better hands and turning made hands into a bluff at a balanced fashion - wouldnt checking back AJ be better?
Bump for Aaron.....
Posted over 1 year ago
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DaKaJ
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yea 70% might be slightly too big, i got around 65% messing around in pokerstove with different pairs/textures. the word "decent" is quite vague. there are def some players and board textures where I would advise calling, but as a general rule if you always folded, I'm sure if wouldn't cost you much money.
I think that calling oop with a small pair on a paired board 3-ways is almost always going to be pretty bad, it's not a HU situation where opponent opens 100% of BTNs. For example here on JJ9 if you give the CO a 30% opening range and even if he c-bets 100% (prolly not true as he should give up some of his air) you're about a 40-60 dog right away and its pretty obvious that any bet going in on further street is not to our advantage.
But well, you both agreed that a small pair here should mostly be folded, I just wanted to say that in my opinion its not a close spot at all and that c/calling here is a pretty big leak.
Posted over 1 year ago
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DaKaJ
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I mean sure if it's HU youre going to call here every time. But the guy opened from the CO and bet into 2 people,its a completely different situation, he just never have K2o or 64o and all those random hands you have good equity against.
Posted over 1 year ago
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infire
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laguuni
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jk3a
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WiltOnTilt
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on J99Tx
For villian - what tendencies for you wilt - where it would be correct for him to check-back AJ?
If you are only bluff catching better hands and turning made hands into a bluff at a balanced fashion - wouldnt checking back AJ be better?
Certainly could be, I'd neeed a good bit of history with a guy (as villain) to know that my opponent would play better than me (with his range) oop on the river when I value bet TPTK. It's not to say that can't happen, it's just more a rarity. I do agree with you though that AJ is definitely toward the bottom (and maybe exactly the bottom) of our value range here against most competent opposition without extra dynamic/history. If you guys have been aggro toward each other then QJ could be a value bet since the oop player should have a fair amount of Tx and potentially underpairs in his range. Without those extra "what ifs" though, AJ would be very close to the bottom of the CO's value range here, so if you want to check that behind because you're afraid of the other guy outplaying you (either by folding too correctly or bluff raising too optimally) then I'm not going to complain too much if you want to check it behind.
Keep in mind it's one of those spots where yes, i can have trips+ there and be calling down but we have to discount combos on each street that doesn't get raised, whereas a hand like KJo probably has every single combo in it etc.
Hope that makes sense.
Driving to north carolina for 14 hours so i probably wont be back in this thread for a day or 2
Posted over 1 year ago
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stuartdd
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On the J99TX river, would a small donk bet of about 35-40% pot on the river have some merit? It could get thin value from hands which he may not fire the river with ie AA-QQ,Jx, Tx (maybe). Also his medium strength hands may feel they need to raise vs such a small bet to get more value (with say kq, q8) and possibly commit themselves to a shove. It also leaves the door open for villain to bluff raise.
I can see the donk bet losing some value vs hands like A-Q9,98,97 but otherwise it seems like a plausible option.
Great series, would very much like a HU version
stuartdd
Posted over 1 year ago
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ice320
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Thorrrr
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terp
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Madfish
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Hey Wilt and JK3A,
Love the series. Was wondering if this idea for a series is one you guys like: a hand or two are presented sans hole cards. Hands must have a river bet or implied bet (check raise that did not happen). Viewers have to decide whether the river bet is made for value, bluff, or merge. Forum can discuss. Next week answers and reasons are given and a new hand or two are offered up.
Posted over 1 year ago
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jk3a
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Hey Wilt and JK3A,
Love the series. Was wondering if this idea for a series is one you guys like: a hand or two are presented sans hole cards. Hands must have a river bet or implied bet (check raise that did not happen). Viewers have to decide whether the river bet is made for value, bluff, or merge. Forum can discuss. Next week answers and reasons are given and a new hand or two are offered up.
very interesting idea, will def keep that in mind
Posted over 1 year ago
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Prologion
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Time Link to 00:11:45
I like gaycbetting in 4Bet_Pots, but not here.
This is a board where I could imagine to C/F sometimes Air + especially do not give with my air something like AQ almost 5:1 to peel here...
I like gaycbets on boards where I cbet my whole range + Protection is wothless - for instance, Axxr/s, Kxxr/s...
Here I would either bet larger (around 1/2-PS) or C/F, C/Jam depending on my present hand of my overall range in this spot.
Posted over 1 year ago
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Prologion
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jk3a
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Prologion
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depends who's c/c range we're talking about
What I mean is, he is a solid REG, hence he will have an ides what your botoom of your C/Callrange on the river is, in this spot.
When it is (like you have said) JT or even Trips, so why he should val.bet then AJ?
Posted over 1 year ago
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jk3a
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What I mean is, he is a solid REG, hence he will have an ides what your botoom of your C/Callrange on the river is, in this spot.
When it is (like you have said) JT or even Trips, so why he should val.bet then AJ?
maybe we misspoke, but what i think we're talking about is that the "bottom" for most people is quite strong especially against that specific BET SIZE.
so if it's thinking reg vs thinking reg you can see how some leveling might get involved and we could hero call QT worse Jx etc because we both know this in theory
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HoloPainen
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Time Link to 00:15:02
Why is it terrible to ship the flop w Tx in this situation? We have a pair in a huge pot and the turn can bring lots of bad cards thus putting ourselves in a difficult situation. For example a K falls on the turn and he ships we would wonder why wouldn't we just shove our pair on the flop.
Posted about 1 year ago
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jk3a
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Why is it terrible to ship the flop w Tx in this situation? We have a pair in a huge pot and the turn can bring lots of bad cards thus putting ourselves in a difficult situation. For example a K falls on the turn and he ships we would wonder why wouldn't we just shove our pair on the flop.
if we assume we ship to protect here, i would argue that there's not much to protect against. mostly a wa/wb if you have Tx. I just don't agree that "the turn can bring LOTS of bad cards."
this is not to suggest that a number of people won't ship with Tx because they're uncomfortable calling for the few times a "bad" turn does hit and/or they just don't know what to do, and even though shipping could be +ev for the few times we b/f the flop or b/hero call as I did, it's not likely to be better than call/call when there are so few turns we're actually worried about
Posted about 1 year ago
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HoloPainen
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if we assume we ship to protect here, i would argue that there's not much to protect against. mostly a wa/wb if you have Tx. I just don't agree that "the turn can bring LOTS of bad cards."
this is not to suggest that a number of people won't ship with Tx because they're uncomfortable calling for the few times a "bad" turn does hit and/or they just don't know what to do, and even though shipping could be +ev for the few times we b/f the flop or b/hero call as I did, it's not likely to be better than call/call when there are so few turns we're actually worried about
thanks for the quick answer
btw I love your series, you two guys are the main reason I have a subscr.
Posted about 1 year ago
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jk3a
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WiltOnTilt
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shipit123
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shipit123
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jk3a
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Def the best intro out of the series I thought...i actually LOL'd a few times...WoT you are a pretty good story teller...Jk3 you need some work bruh...just sayin
shipit45,
thanks brahsepharoni
jka
Posted 6 months ago
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shipit123
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WiltOnTilt
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