Poker Video: Limit Hold'Em by Joe Tall (Mid Stakes)

Time Link to 00:34:40

Joe, remember to get that spicyf thread

Time Link to 00:48:05

Unguarded for Chez is far from a fair trade. UG crushes Stars midstakes limit 6max games and Chez 10 tables and makes his rakeback $. Probably a -2BB/100 for the table.

Glad Chris pointed out that you have a timing tell. Take your time joe.

Joe, remember to get that spicyf thread

http://archives2.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=781406&page=0&fpart=all&vc=1

Time Link to 00:44:32

I play HUHU around these stakes.

I've only got 33 hands where the flop checked around, I B/C turn, and X/C river.

I'm losing 80 BB/100, but a lot of those are where villain sucked out to a better pair on the river.

As for what type of hands I see, it's a very wide spectrum over the hands I've played. Filtering for just the flop and turn action, sometimes it's the nuts, sometimes it's a FSDR, sometimes it's random air which may or may not barrel.

I think it's most important to figure out what it means for the specific opponent as opposed to drawing generalizations. In HUHU, I'm pretty scared when someone who c-bets 99% checks back something like a paired or Ace-high flop, but not so much for someone who c-bets only 50% and I've seen often folds to turn leads.

Time Link to 00:43:37

I like bet/calling the turn and check/folding river UIP against a reasonably thinking player who won't mindlessly brl the river.

Is this hand to vulnerable to go for a CR on the turn? Ace high probably bets now and might pay off.

Unguarded for Chez is far from a fair trade. UG crushes Stars midstakes limit 6max games and Chez 10 tables and makes his rakeback $. Probably a -2BB/100 for the table.

Agree. I think Unguarded is a former DC member.

Time Link to 00:47:08

Is paying off here on the river correct as played?

What are you putting villian on to where you would call down UIP if a blank hit the river?

Time Link to 00:11:46

I'm sure these guys have history but what are your thoughts about INRI completing while knife is the bb? is this the standard line vs aggro regs bvb now? Has everyone been watching Deathdonkey vids?

Time Link to 00:23:30

you trailed off here as to why you check behind. Are we afraid of a c/c c/r line from Ahigh, 9T that got there or club draws semibluffing? furthermore, once we've checked we're never looking to fold anything ever no matter the river?

Time Link to 00:48:16

so you're saying that a player like knife420 is going to c/c and reevaluate the river with made hands 9 < there?

I like bet/calling the turn and check/folding river UIP against a reasonably thinking player who won't mindlessly brl the river.

Is this hand to vulnerable to go for a CR on the turn? Ace high probably bets now and might pay off.

Definitely should have mentioned this as well, as it went through my head, but felt like the discussion was already going long on this one and I knew we wanted to get through a fair bit. I think its not bad at all.

Is paying off here on the river correct as played?

What are you putting villian on to where you would call down UIP if a blank hit the river?

If you call you are putting him on a total airball, I'd fold river.

you trailed off here as to why you check behind. Are we afraid of a c/c c/r line from Ahigh, 9T that got there or club draws semibluffing? furthermore, once we've checked we're never looking to fold anything ever no matter the river?

Correct, I think we get CRed a not-happy amount of the time, and its by a range that will make our decision difficult. It's also a decent board to induce a river bluff since our hand looks like a small pair or king high and a lot of guys will try to bluff us off those. I would call any river if I checked behind yeah.

so you're saying that a player like knife420 is going to c/c and reevaluate the river with made hands 9 < there?

Probably? Not totally sure really how others will react in this spot but we aren't going to achieve a lot by semibluffing. *if* they bet, they are rarely folding.

I play HUHU around these stakes.

I've only got 33 hands where the flop checked around, I B/C turn, and X/C river.

I'm losing 80 BB/100, but a lot of those are where villain sucked out to a better pair on the river.

As for what type of hands I see, it's a very wide spectrum over the hands I've played. Filtering for just the flop and turn action, sometimes it's the nuts, sometimes it's a FSDR, sometimes it's random air which may or may not barrel.

I think it's most important to figure out what it means for the specific opponent as opposed to drawing generalizations. In HUHU, I'm pretty scared when someone who c-bets 99% checks back something like a paired or Ace-high flop, but not so much for someone who c-bets only 50% and I've seen often folds to turn leads.

Am i really the only one who likes a turn cr there? I mean he really shouldnt have anything, and most players who utg raise and checks back dry flops, will bet-call down with real stubborn holdings. The only thing i can see him having that beats us here is exactly 44.

I like bet/calling the turn and check/folding river UIP against a reasonably thinking player who won't mindlessly brl the river.

I would have b/c turn, check called river if it bricks off otherwise check fold.

Perhaps that's a bad line since he might not bet his missed FD on the river...

I check the turn quite often here (with medium made hand hu on dry board after a villain pfr and checkback) and I don't agree with the prevalent advocacy for betting. Villain has more or less polarized himself as strong or weak, and we often get the most from him when he's weak if we induce, and lose the least from him when he's strong if we check. Also, bet/folding is gross, and bet/calling down seems too expensive vs non-psychos.

So, I don't want to fold a decent hand in a pot where my opponent has taken a goofy line, and I don't want to greatly inflate the pot, or fold it and remove my chance to see what he has played this way. That way I get information to use in the future.

Time Link to 00:29:14

DD criticized TopDJTex's river bet here. Preflop, Knife420 had opened, Chezlaw 3! bet and TopDJ capped from the small blind.

On the flop, TopDJ check/raised knife's bet and Chezlaw folded for one.

Top DJ bet the rest of the way.

So as for the river play, do you advocate a c/f or a c/c? The pot is pretty bloated, but just about every terrible card possible is on board by the river so pocket tens are looking like garbage right now. This is one of those spots where if I want to see a showdown, I will usually bet even if I'm almost certain that I'm beat, since I figure I'll be paying a bet anyways to see a showdown and on the off chance villain has a hand I beat worth showing down but not worth betting, I miss value.

Can you comment on these spots a little bit? Where you are OOP with a weak hand vs an aggressive value bettor?

Well first off his flop CR is really bad obviously.

On this spot on the river I like c/c, because of the board texture. Some of the draws missed, and the board is pretty scary, so Knife is unlikely imo to even value bet Jx and maybe not even Qx out of confusion, so he is somewhat polarized. I think c/f is also worth considering.

It sounds like you are thinking about two concepts and are half right. When its a thin value spot you *usually* do better against most guys by letting them call you with a wider range than they would value bet you with, but the problem is if their calling range still has you beat > 50% of the time, check/fold ends up being better. It's just hard to estimate whether that is the case sometimes in the heat of the moment.