Poker Video: Limit Hold'Em by Joe Tall (Mid Stakes)

DosXX in a DC vid? NICE!

Time Link to 01:00:17

Filthy Princess actually is 3betting us fairly wide. In the last 26 hands, (s)he's 3bet at least 3 times--the only time we've actually seen a showdown (s)he had T9o and bluffed the river against our 44.

My question is, how good is this table really? The other 4 players have all been fairly spewy (I know you said Boobah77 was kind of taggish, but he spewed pretty hard with that K7s hand against Topgun), but having Filthy on our left dampens our ability to take advantage as much as if say, coolbear was on our direct left.

Also, I feel like we missed a great opportunity to switch seats when the table was 4 handed and we could put Filthy on our right.

Also, I feel like we missed a great opportunity to switch seats when the table was 4 handed and we could put Filthy on our right.

Opening a seat to allow a TAG to sit to TopgunAA (who was open limping the button, etc) would be a big mistake. You would have a TAG on the button when you are in the Big Blind and lose 1st isolation of TopgunAA.

Time Link to 00:38:37

Deciding whether to call 95s in the BB to a HJ open.

Since wawa8989 has open limped hands previously this may make his open raise range stronger as opposed to regs who open raise their entire range.

On the other hand, some Villains will limp strong and raise weak.

I'm not sure which wawa8989 does.

Time Link to 01:03:50

Deciding what to do with TPNK on AK7 two-tone HU OOP.

What about x/c x/c x/r since Filthy Princess 3-barreled us in the T9 hand? It would be nice to know how wide Villain opens in the CO.

Phil mentions that a benefit of x/r the flop is that Villain can put you on the FD and call down with PPs like TT. Another potential benefit of x/r is Villain might B/3B the flop if they have the FD and you can cap and lead/evaluate the turn. However, I don't know how people play 8/16 6m these days since I play HUHU.

Ill have to watch this vid.

I was filthy princess fwiw

Its actually my brothers acc but i remember playing that day because of having position on JT

I remember the T9o hand vs his 44

I was 3betting him pretty wide from memory as he wasnt showing down much at all. T9o was prob too wide.

Re: barreling the riv with that hand, from memory the riv was Jx or something and I put JT on a mid Ax hand that i felt could fold this riv. My plan when he called the turn was to prob fold all A,K, brick rivs but i cant remember the board and havent watched the vid yet so cant be sure

Happy to go into my DB and let you know what i had each hand if you want Joe?

Happy to go into my DB and let you know what i had each hand if you want Joe?

If you feel it will bring discussion to the video, link time stamps to the hands you had in play vs me, yes. Just goes to show how ONE hand will throw off an image very quickly. Seems to be the recurring theme in this series!!

I really liked DosXX analysis I thought it was good.

Time Link to 00:28:27

Reload preflop! Sitting with 7 BB in this juicy game seems sadface.

I have to apologize for the audio, something was either wrong w/my mic, or Phil's connection, or both. We are going to try to fix it.

Please do not vote down the video w/o comment, esp, if it was for the audio quality.

Reload preflop! Sitting with 7 BB in this juicy game seems sadface.

Yeah I dont know what I was thinking, I didnt have auto-reload on, doh.

http://www.deucescracked.com/videos/5861-Episode-Four?seek=2051

I'd definitely donk bluff this river card. The most obvious draw came in, you have like nut low, he can easily talk himself into a bad fold, and he could also have a better flush draw than yours that has to fold.

Time Link to 00:42:52

I think his river check is very good, you mostly have mid pairs that will probably bet, or missed draws, you rarely have a total bluff catcher here.

Also Joe I think its really important to take the advice Phil is offering in this hand, you simply have to bluff this hand at some point, I think with that flop texture its close between raising flop and barreling off, or raising turn.

Time Link to 00:45:26

He's trying to induce a bluff guys, I really like his river check.

Time Link to 00:53:25

re: Joe's comment "once I c/c turn I'm gonna c/c every river" - I think that's a fairly bad statement in the LHE games today. It used to be sort of correct because people wouldn't barrel the turn, now everyone just fires twice and then checks behind the river sometimes. It's more like Phil said, "I'm gonna c/c twice here and then decide" should be the standard.

It's also worth noting you are near the absolute top of your range here, so that alone should make it a snap call on the river. If I am villain I value bet worse than 44.

Time Link to 01:04:36

Generally speaking c/c CR vs a hijack raise on this board texture strikes me as a huge spew. I think CR bet/fold and CR bet/call decide are really the only decent options.

http://www.deucescracked.com/videos/5861-Episode-Four?seek=2051

I'd definitely donk bluff this river card. The most obvious draw came in, you have like nut low, he can easily talk himself into a bad fold, and he could also have a better flush draw than yours that has to fold.

I agree here,, although i cant decide if i like cap flop/barrel more

I had K7s (no flush) here and would probably fold if i was playing my A-game (vs JT specifically at that time)

Its the the very bottom of my vbetting range vs JT but honestly im thinking i probably call here a fair amount vs Joe and snap call vs an unknown

Kinda depends how i think he plays 6x. I think he prob donks this more often than not???? which makes folding slightly more appealing

Time Link to 00:42:59

DD is spot on.

I put JT on 7x, 9x, or Jx that chickened out on the turn card. I think he caps any AQ and maybe AT pf seeing as he caps oop, so his range is going to have almost no Ax hands in it, maybe A8, maybe AT.

I think he folds 55/66 etc on the turn

I assume he bets 9x, Jx on the riv and imo he should be 7x pretty easily and given my image i doubt he folds to a c/r

So basically i think there are very few hands in his range that check behind this riv that would call a bet.

Time Link to 00:53:15

Still cant make up my mind on betting this riv card.

I felt at the time JT could fold some mid Ax hands, but thats about it. Looking back he possibly has stuff like 77/88??? in his range which makes betting alot worse obvs.

It cant be a huge mistake if im aware of what it does to my image.

Like i said, any brick card i was giving up on but given the fact that a J/Q riv is the prefect bluff card for us i dont hate the bet

Time Link to 01:04:37

I think i had J9 or something here

This is an interesting spot from JT's pov

I think c/r is best, especially given the presence of the FD.

Its definately a very hard spot to get any sort of value given our hand and the opener's position.
Fwiw, i mix it up between c/c and c/r. I think it adds a little bit more strength to our c/c range vs observant villains without giving up too much.

But like i said, given the FD i think its a pretty easy cr

Thanks everyone for the comments it's great to get a good discussion going. Sorry about some of the audio issues. I just moved into a new house and the router downstairs has been giving me connectivity issues. I'm confident everything will be fixed shortly. Also I didn't realize the my new puppy Deuce made a cameo. She wishes you the best of luck.

He's trying to induce a bluff guys, I really like his river check.

I somewhat disagree about the river check from Deepsquat’s point of view. What hands is he targeting? Remember we have to pay off the c/r and not just bet once at some probability that is higher than just betting the river and getting his 1 bet. I agree our hand looks weak (so he should think we could bluff), but we would never pay off a raise. That means he is just letting small PPs and 7s and ace highs off really easy instead of barreling again. I just don’t think we can have the type of hands to bet/call this river and we have way more bluff catchers than bluffs with the action so far.

In regards to Joe having A6 on the AKx board:

I think a c/c then c/r turn line is ok against someone you have a lot of hands with that will assume you have a polarized range with that line. When I c/r bet bet my TP hands time and again it becomes easy to play against. While I would agree with DD that this play as a standard play is spewy, I do think it has a spot in reg-infested mid stakes games. Also one more thing to note is that this board is not great for the villain to double barrel with QJ type hands so I would expect he checks back worse on this turn and bets better (which sucks obv for the c/r turn line). With that said, it definitely has merit in wide range situations (against a button steal for instance) where he just has to double barrel a lot of his range. Say we have A8 on 268 board, I don’t mind waiting for the turn a lot because we are peeling with a lot of weak hands as well.

In regards to Deepsquat's comments on his own 9To barrel:

Once an opponent calls this flop I’m pretty much done with the hand (barring some rivers). The problem is that you are expecting them to fold ace high sometime between the turn and river. I doubt many opponents except the most fit/fold ones would fold ace high on this board to a turn bet so you are really talking about barreling two streets now and it becomes quite expensive. Checking the turn gives us the ability to also bluff an ace river when it checks to us (sounds counter-intuitive), but I’m assuming he just bets an ace on the river and might c/fold something like 44 or if he got to the turn with QJ/QT. I just don’t think with the image of Filthy Princess he should be barreling the turn and setting himself up to barrel the river.

Also re-reading Deepsquat's comments about his c/r, it makes a little more sense given that he thinks Joe would cap AT and AQ out of position. I rarely would cap these hands and therefore that probably shifts the equilibrium closer to a check/raise since we have way less combos of bluff catchers. But I'm still not sold

Still cant make up my mind on betting this riv card.

I felt at the time JT could fold some mid Ax hands, but thats about it. Looking back he possibly has stuff like 77/88??? in his range which makes betting alot worse obvs.

It cant be a huge mistake if im aware of what it does to my image.

Like i said, any brick card i was giving up on but given the fact that a J/Q riv is the prefect bluff card for us i dont hate the bet

I hate your turn bet btw

I somewhat disagree about the river check from Deepsquat’s point of view. What hands is he targeting? Remember we have to pay off the c/r and not just bet once at some probability that is higher than just betting the river and getting his 1 bet. I agree our hand looks weak (so he should think we could bluff), but we would never pay off a raise. That means he is just letting small PPs and 7s and ace highs off really easy instead of barreling again. I just don’t think we can have the type of hands to bet/call this river and we have way more bluff catchers than bluffs with the action so far.

Well, its just an EV calculation I guess, if we assume Joe always calls with 7x and always checks it behind, calls with a couple big Ax, and all his small pairs, then we have to compare that to what hands Joe would bluff with (and fold to a raise) and what Joe would do with 9x and Jx. Perhaps its because I know Joe better than you but I perceive that he would bet/call with most of his value hands here, for fear of the unknown (and in general I think its a good assumption that most guys would bet/call here so if we generalize the discussion I think the CR is good against most people).

I think betting the river is only good against super SD monkeys, or against guys that are passive enough to have Kx but aggro enough to raise the river when they improve to trips (pretty common I'd say). Against most everyone else CR appears better, including against experts.

Time Link to 00:50:08

This still feels like a peel to me.

Its actually my brothers acc but i remember playing that day because of having position on JT

This is kind of shady isn't it? Why not play on your own account instead of multi-accounting? Because your brother's is unknown?

This is kind of shady isn't it? Why not play on your own account instead of multi-accounting? Because your brother's is unknown?

I dont multi-acc.

My old acc name is princeofminge at FT, i dont use it anymore, i dont play at FT anymore.

I got divorced in January and my wife cleaned me out of a good portion of my poker funds which happened to be my FT acc. THere is a thread at 2+2 about it somewhere.

Check PTR and you will see that i dont play there anymore due to not having funds http://www.pokertableratings.com/fulltilt-player-search/princeofminge

I play at cereus and stars now and happened to be at my brothers house when i played the session in this video. I play occasionally at his house if i go over there and he is playing.

Its hardly multi-accounting, as i dont use multiple accounts. My brother was in the room the whole time and hes trying to improve his game.

I may redeposit at FT soon.

Time Link to 00:07:22

Nitpick -
"If he has AT or AQ, we will split if we spike an ace on the river"

AQ will become a chop, but we lose to AT, right? (if we spike an ace on the river)

We do split with AT if we spike a K on the river though. I'm guessing that's what you meant to say?