Poker Video: Misc/Other by DeathDonkey (Mid Stakes)

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Great vid guys! I liked the amount of higher level thinking and more complex concepts

Can you give a link to that software that was showing the mucked cards?

Can you give a link to that software that was showing the mucked cards?

For now, it's at http://www.hotales.org/muckedcards/

As you saw, it does (and will) have some bugs and issues. I'll be looking to patch any bugs it appears to have.

Cool, thanks for the link. What have you developed this in? Do you want any help?

The only problem I've had with the mucked cards software is that it doesn't recognize if your stars software automatically puts you in a certain seat. But thats not hard to fix, you just have to move yourself to your actual seat position and then everything works out fine.

The only problem I've had with the mucked cards software is that it doesn't recognize if your stars software automatically puts you in a certain seat. But thats not hard to fix, you just have to move yourself to your actual seat position and then everything works out fine.

Yeah, I'll look into this. Nice save on the video, by the way, thanks! :-)

Great video again. I could listen to that intro music over and over again ...

Can you talk a little more about drawing to smoother hands when in multiway pots versus heads up? It seems that card removal effects are going to be quite significant, so that all of the drawers are going to have very few of their outs left in the deck. I definitely can see why you would want to draw smooth early, but especially on the last draw, in a large multiway pot, I'd be inclined to pat rather rough -- especially in last position if I see that everyone else has drawn a card.

A somewhat related concept comes up in seven card stud, where you are more likely to be up against split aces if you see two ace door cards than one ace door card. Even though there are less aces in the deck so each of the players in the first situation is less likely to have split aces than the single player in the second situation, the combined chance that at least one of them has aces is higher than the chance that the single player has an ace in the hole.

It seems like something may be happening in triple draw. There's a pretty good chance that one player will end up completely bricking out, but if it is multiway the chances that everyone completely bricks out are probably quite slim. But it would be interesting to see how card removal affects these odds.

Can you talk a little more about drawing to smoother hands when in multiway pots versus heads up? It seems that card removal effects are going to be quite significant, so that all of the drawers are going to have very few of their outs left in the deck. I definitely can see why you would want to draw smooth early, but especially on the last draw, in a large multiway pot, I'd be inclined to pat rather rough -- especially in last position if I see that everyone else has drawn a card.

I think you've hit the nail on the head. The rougher our hand is, the more inclined we should be to stand pat, rather than draw. Also, your points on the card removal effects are on the money as well. This is why 22334 is a far superior hand to be dealt than say 234qk.

I think you've hit the nail on the head. The rougher our hand is, the more inclined we should be to stand pat, rather than draw. Also, your points on the card removal effects are on the money as well. This is why 22334 is a far superior hand to be dealt than say 234qk.

Yep, I agree with asdirane and I just might not have explained this properly in the episodes so far. In multiway pots its more important to be drawing smoothly early on, because the pot will grow quite large and when you make a hand, you are going to be fairly well committed to it. This means the reverse implied odds of starting rough are magnified in multiway pots. As you correctly point out though, a very decent strategy for later street play is "make something and have it HOLDDDDD" because its extremely common to see 2 or 3 opponents all drawing one and one by one bricking out.

-DeathDonkey

am i the only one who can't get the mucked card script to work? i don't get a window that pops up tellin me the program is working. i'm usin xp pro btw.

thanks

am i the only one who can't get the mucked card script to work? i don't get a window that pops up tellin me the program is working. i'm usin xp pro btw.

Email me or send a private message and I'll see if I can help you. It got out a bit early and surely has multitude of bugs.

Lovin it!

Time Link to 00:01:56

would you open this from the bu only? what if the game is 5 handed? I feel like 4 handed it is a clear open from the co but I'd like to know your opinion on this one.

vs what position do you start 3betting your 2cd draws?
from the sb vs bu and co? and from the bu vs co? or do you just flat no matter what?

would you open this from the bu only? what if the game is 5 handed? I feel like 4 handed it is a clear open from the co but I'd like to know your opinion on this one.

I think its marginal from the CO and thus would depend on the lineup, but yes clear btn open.

vs what position do you start 3betting your 2cd draws?
from the sb vs bu and co? and from the bu vs co? or do you just flat no matter what?

I think this is a matter of playing style. I personally don't 3bet 2cd draws often at all, but if I did it would mostly be an isolation play: for instance, if a weaker/spewier player opened with strong players behind me and I wanted his action to myself.

Agree w DJ 100%

Time Link to 00:23:59

would you pat a 87642/32 in a HU pot too? or draw 1?

correct my if I am wrong: It is super standard to pat it vs 2cd or worse and it might be close wether to break it vs a 1cd oder pat it.

Time Link to 00:29:02

would you defend a 2w vs utg too? or is mp1 the boarderline?
what kind of range does your opponent need to have that makes folding 2w on the bb correct?
what if we brick and villain draws 2, are we c/f or c/c the flop? same question vs a 1cd.

Time Link to 00:30:13

really?
you would break T7432 vs a 1cd?

Time Link to 00:40:23

is 765 a standard defend for you on the bb?

Time Link to 00:41:34

would you always steal w/ 22W from the co? or only vs a tight button/blinds?

Time Link to 00:42:09

I know the equity of a specific hand but how do I figure out my equity vs a range?

Time Link to 00:43:48

in this video you advice to 3bet your 2cd but as you commented in the comments nowadays you would not, right?
is this stil a standard defense for you in the sb vs a button open?

Time Link to 00:44:16

does the fact that we saw a few keycards lean you towards snowing or drawing?

Time Link to 00:45:29

what about snowing on the flop instead of drawing 1? seems less likely to be a snow in villains eye and he won't be able to bluff us out of the hand that easy. On the other hand it is more costly for us and we have good EQ.

Time Link to 00:46:02

hm to valuebet or not seems to be very villaindependent. when he breaks he is obviously drawing to a better hand than a 97x and he has to think that we bluff a decent amount of the time in this spot. could you elaborate on this one a little bit?

would you pat a 87642/32 in a HU pot too? or draw 1?

correct my if I am wrong: It is super standard to pat it vs 2cd or worse and it might be close wether to break it vs a 1cd oder pat it.

I agree w your statement.

would you defend a 2w vs utg too? or is mp1 the boarderline?
what kind of range does your opponent need to have that makes folding 2w on the bb correct?
what if we brick and villain draws 2, are we c/f or c/c the flop? same question vs a 1cd.

He'd have to be some huge nit that only has 4 card strong hands and pat strong hands, not really a realistic player, I defend this nearly always. I'd c/f vs a 1 draw, I'd c/c vs a 2 draw if he is the type to bet unimproved.

Time Link to 00:56:23

breaking a jack with a gs draw is kinda close...
I don't think it is an easy break with a T65 once he raises, or is it? I mean he could do it with worse hands.

really?
you would break T7432 vs a 1cd?

We don't know for certain he has a 1cd in that spot, he could freeze and we are screwed.

is 765 a standard defend for you on the bb?

Vs late position raise yes

would you always steal w/ 22W from the co? or only vs a tight button/blinds?

I think always, its a good hand, it has a key blocker, stealing is fun

I know the equity of a specific hand but how do I figure out my equity vs a range?

I don't have a great answer, I know from experience / estimation mostly

Time Link to 00:58:04

is this stil up to date? (opening 453 from the co?) 764 763 are an open as well?

in this video you advice to 3bet your 2cd but as you commented in the comments nowadays you would not, right?
is this stil a standard defense for you in the sb vs a button open?

If they are a weak player yes, and yes I'd usually be coldcalling

does the fact that we saw a few keycards lean you towards snowing or drawing?

That combined with our weakish draw makes me want to snow. Looking back at this I think snowing was best

what about snowing on the flop instead of drawing 1? seems less likely to be a snow in villains eye and he won't be able to bluff us out of the hand that easy. On the other hand it is more costly for us and we have good EQ.

That seems alright to me, our draw is pretty weak

hm to valuebet or not seems to be very villaindependent. when he breaks he is obviously drawing to a better hand than a 97x and he has to think that we bluff a decent amount of the time in this spot. could you elaborate on this one a little bit?

Well yea there are 2 types of guys. One guy will break and give us credit and fold a lot on the end since he already made his decision and he believes us. The other guy will break but sort of second guess himself and make a lot of light river payoffs, thinking our final bet is a little suspicious. Also if you are the type of guy to make some tricky spewy plays on the turn but then check behind the river a lot, a river bet is very polarizing / suspicious looking

He'd have to be some huge nit that only has 4 card strong hands and pat strong hands, not really a realistic player, I defend this nearly always. I'd c/f vs a 1 draw, I'd c/c vs a 2 draw if he is the type to bet unimproved.

ok. thanks for your replies!

in another thread you mentioned that folding 652 from the sb vs utg is standard for you.
1) vs a co open it seems like a call but I a unsure what to do vs a mp1 open
2) that means that you fold your 82W hands too from the sb vs utg and? mp1?
3) but you would defend 2W vs UTG. you pay 1 sb less but you only have a 3CD that seems a little inconsistent to me.
4)in that thread you also mentioned that you would call 652 vs an utg open on the button. does that mean that you would fold your hand if you were the CO? what about if you are in mp1?

We don't know for certain he has a 1cd in that spot, he could freeze and we are screwed.

late position includes co too? it obviously depends on his opening range. if he is on the tighter side and his worst opening hand is 863 are you stil going to defend 765?

Vs late position raise yes

is that also true for 226 and 228? (I'd guess so)

I think always, its a good hand, it has a key blocker, stealing is fun

ok.
what do you think is your equity like vs a patrange which consits of Tx+
with 8742 1 draw left

If they are a weak player yes, and yes I'd usually be coldcalling

would you make an exception if you knew that the co is capable of opening 3cd and as an adaption start 3betting him on the bu with your 2cd?

is this stil up to date? (opening 453 from the co?) 764 763 are an open as well?

I'm thinking about the 3-betting vs. coldcalling issue with 2-card draws.

"You don't necessarily mind inviting other people into the pot."

Isn't it the case that in lowball games in particular it's even harder to win multiway pots than in high poker? Quite apart from the dead blind money, I feel more comfortable playing head-up than multiway, even in position. Our edge is often thin head-up; three-way, if we're all drawing the same # of cards then if we have an edge it can be very thin.

So I'm wondering if we should be more inclined to 3-bet, say in the HJ when UTG opens than we are on the button or even the CO.

OTOH, I recall *TT* arguing on 2p2 some years back about the value of coldcalling for pot size control. (If memory serves, and I could be way off here, I think he was talking about 3-banging versus flatting in the SB when the button opened.)

I think the debate is totally over Alan, almost nobody is reraising those hands anymore. You simply don't have an equity edge and it forces you to 3 bet too many weak hands that would be playable for a coldcall.

Then the followup is about good 1-card draws.

(1) Decent thinking player opens in early position, I've got something like 8632X. If I'm cold-calling all my 2-card draws, then if I raise here, every player who is paying attention is going to know that I have a 1-card draw or pat hand. Is the equity edge over a typical 2-card opener so big that it's worth it to narrow my range like that?

(2) This time I open in early position with that same 8632X. Decent thinking villain 3-bets me. (Maybe I've noticed her 3-banging with good 1-card draws, or maybe I haven't, or maybe she's a totally new player.) Everyone else drops out and the action is back to me.

Now my bread-and-butter game is limit hold'em, and in LHE there is a school of thought that holds that when head-up out of position, if you always flat-call an in-position 3-bet before the flop, you don't divide your range into weaker openers and premium hands, and you can generally make up that extra bet on the flop with your premiums.

In the video a situation came up where DJ Sensei opened a 1-card draw and then flatted the villain's reraise; you told him that this made his draw look weak. Isn't that a good thing, from the point of view of keeping our range wide? In other words, what's wrong with flatting all our 1-card draws head-up OOP before the first draw?

I'm guessing that the answer to both of these situations is that the draw reveals the strength of our hand anyway, so we might as well bet the value of our hand.

But (especially if we're in position) one role of betting is to force incorrect drawing decisions. Doesn't range and balance play into that? Or is the first draw just too straightforward for this to matter?

I'm guessing that the answer to both of these situations is that the draw reveals the strength of our hand anyway, so we might as well bet the value of our hand.

This is a big part of it. When we have a playable 4 card hand we do have a substantial equity edge, so generally we want to get as much value for the hand as possible. An exception would be a spot where we might pass up a small edge with a premium hand to protect our range, similar to the 2 card draw spot. Let's say I open UTG and a good winning player 3 bets me next in, heck let's say you opened UTG and I 3 bet you next in. UTG there should not cap a 1 card draw, he is either up against a 1 card draw or a pat hand and that's that. He may have 2347 and have a small edge vs worse 1 card draws but now he would be spewing if he capped every 1 card draw, and giving away a lot of info if he only capped some of them.

Also you are not narrowing your range so much if you just say to your opponent "I have a one card draw or a pat hand", I mean even if you told him you were pat that would not help him a ton. There is a WORLD of difference between having a pat number 5 and a pat 35679, but both are playable there.

Time Link to 00:23:02

If you have a hand like 347 and then hit 3467 after the first draw what is the correct play then?

Time Link to 00:28:21

You fold a 27 3 card draw UTG here. In what position do you start opening that?

If you have a hand like 347 and then hit 3467 after the first draw what is the correct play then?

Well I don't hate his play as much as I did at the time (was nittier then I guess), but he should probably fold to the turn raise usually and/or just pat the turn and snow. 347 isn't an open from earlier positions so its sort of a bit rare you catch this hand, but its not easy to play when you do.

You fold a 27 3 card draw UTG here. In what position do you start opening that?

Button

Time Link to 00:13:36

What are your thoughts on 3betting all 2cds on the button vs a CO pfr in today's games?

What are your thoughts on 3betting all 2cds on the button vs a CO pfr in today's games?

Vs some laggy guys its probably the best single situation to have a 3 betting range for 2 cds