the video is only 3 min long...

Pretty solid video w/ hands and commentary. Going to have to rewatch and some more comments later.
Vanessa you mentioned very quickly that you may bet your AT on KTx J turn. Can you post some comments on why you may do that considering the guy was half stacked and one of the hands you put him on was QJ? I generally dont think I have any fold equity there vs droolers and the only reason for to bet would be to showdown (which wont happen if he has and hits a draw) and the only hands you get value from would seem to be the very bottom of his range. Maybe I'm missing something but I'd love to get a comment on that.

Really looking forward to the turn bet finale video. Is any part of this series going to include deepstack play? If you could throw in a situation or two that included deepstack turn plays (if you have any interesting spots in your HHs) it'd be greatly appreciated. Deepstack SSNL play is something I'd love to see you two tackle in general for future series also.

this shit is fucking awesome, so much better than just watching live play where theres not always great situations to discuss, the explanations are excellent as well, keep up the good work !!!!

This video was so so sexy. Great job on the Unconventional Wisdom vids guys.

My only worry is that this site may get too popular and I'll have to deal with other players pulling this crap on me.

This series is amazing. It's already paid for at least several months of DC membership.

QFT

You are doing great job!

hey guys.

more thoughts on what youd do if bad cards come off. you do a little bit of it but we all know too well that plans can be foiled thanks to mr. random number generator.

Well, spend a little time working out counter-schemes to it in case that happens. Best to be one step ahead.

Guess you've already got an idea for something for season 3, eh? :)

Rob

Got a hand where I pulled a line right out of this video (along with some of the general concepts of the 1st video). Would love to see how well you guys think it translates.

http://www.deucescracked.com/forums/17-Mid-Stakes-NLHE/topics/1351-AK-in-fun-3bet-pot-

This series is awesome. Keep it up.

Time for new episode today .. Weeeeeeee

Regarding the JJ hand.

What would you do if preflop raiser lead $22. (I guess it would be either call or fold). If u call, what's your plan?

It would presumably be a call, hoping that the shortstack moved in. If the PFR then shoves, we can fold, if he just calls, well, we might fold for the same reasons as we did in the actual hand. If he folds, obviously we call.

Supposing that the shorty folds and the reraiser fires another barrel on the turn, we can probably fold unless he's overaggro. If he checks, we probably will bet and fold to a checkraise (although checking back and deciding to either call or fold facing a river bet is also an option)

I think this episode was much more applicable to small stakes than it was mid stakes and up. Particularly for the stop and go concept, I think you're turning marginal hands into pure bluffs more often than not with it.

Actually, when I first started using the move it was at higher stakes games, and I was doing it with sets and other huge hands to try and induce them to make a big move at me, or at least play a bigger pot than they wanted to (since I think most good players would read it as a weak made hand "finding out where its at"). It didn't actually work as well as planned though, most people even at higher stakes just folded most of the time, so I started using it as a bluff sometimes, with success.

I think you're generally right with regards to smaller stakes guys though, since they don't as often have the refined hand-reading skills or the wherewithal to make big, well-targeted moves (thus negating the effectiveness of our play).

Wow, I really need to bump this thread and hopefully somebody will answer :)

REGARDING THE JJ HAND

I was shocked when Vanessa actually folded given the way the hand played out. It maybe a leak, but I would shove this all day, because isnt a huge part of the small blind's range a draw?? The board is super draw heavy and the guy has just minraised before the flop. Normally this screams KK or AA, but on that patricular board, wouldnt he want to protect his hand by going allin? Even with a set, I dont think he would just call.

Is my thinking completely offtrack here?

First let me say that overall I think these videos are solid, and I like how its not just watching you guys play live, so the hands are more focused on certain topics and there is less downtime.

About 42 minutes into this video, DJ Sensei has KcQc UTG+1 and calls an UTG raise, which is standard.
Then his analysis seems to get contradictory. On the flop of Js7sTc, the PFR leads into 3 other players and he says that the PFR likely has a very strong hand, which makes sense. The thing is that he then says 'chances are if I get there I can get paid off pretty well'. (I'm not advocating a fold here) but my reaction to that comment is that if we hit an Ace, and he has KK,QQ,KJ kinda hands, hes not going to want to play a big pot. In addition to this if a 9 hits, there will be a 4 straight on the board, so we may not get paid if that hits either. In fact, on the turn (8c) DJ Sensei comments that there are a fair # of hands that we can have that could have a 9 in them. So it seems like on the flop he was saying that if a 9 comes we can get paid, but then on the turn when an 8 comes he will slow down. IMO there are close to as many hands that we could have that had an 8 in them as there are hands with a 9 in them, so if a 9 were to turn, its unlikely that we would have gotten paid here.
So in summary, I'm not disagreeing with the idea that calling the flop is fine, but I don't really agree with some of the reasoning and analysis, mainly regarding our implied odds.

If DJ Sensei, or fslexduck could comment on this hand further it would be appreciated.

First let me say that overall I think these videos are solid, and I like how its not just watching you guys play live, so the hands are more focused on certain topics and there is less downtime.

About 42 minutes into this video, DJ Sensei has KcQc UTG+1 and calls an UTG raise, which is standard.
Then his analysis seems to get contradictory. On the flop of Js7sTc, the PFR leads into 3 other players and he says that the PFR likely has a very strong hand, which makes sense. The thing is that he then says 'chances are if I get there I can get paid off pretty well'. (I'm not advocating a fold here) but my reaction to that comment is that if we hit an Ace, and he has KK,QQ,KJ kinda hands, hes not going to want to play a big pot. In addition to this if a 9 hits, there will be a 4 straight on the board, so we may not get paid if that hits either. In fact, on the turn (8c) DJ Sensei comments that there are a fair # of hands that we can have that could have a 9 in them. So it seems like on the flop he was saying that if a 9 comes we can get paid, but then on the turn when an 8 comes he will slow down. IMO there are close to as many hands that we could have that had an 8 in them as there are hands with a 9 in them, so if a 9 were to turn, its unlikely that we would have gotten paid here.
So in summary, I'm not disagreeing with the idea that calling the flop is fine, but I don't really agree with some of the reasoning and analysis, mainly regarding our implied odds.

If DJ Sensei, or fslexduck could comment on this hand further it would be appreciated.

You make some solid points. Our implied odds here probably aren't quite as strong as if we had something like JT on a 982 board in the same situation. However, since we have position and two streets to go, we still stand to pick up some extra chips if we get there (and we really don't need to make up all that much, since the price is pretty decent in that spot anyhow). But lets say an A or 9 comes on the turn. Our opponent certainly can't fold his hands like KK/QQ to one bet, since that'd be so weak-tight. Especially on a board with other draws out there that I could well have. And if he's got a set or two pair or something (which do make up a pretty decent chunk of his range, of course) he may have to pay off twice. As it turns out we end up using the 8 as a scare card (which is something that we could have discussed during the flop action, since that possibility adds some equity to our situation, perhaps taking the place of the equity we lose from our '9' outs being a little tainted).

I think the most important thing to take from the hand is that us having position gives us so many options and the best chance to maximize what we get out of our draw, and when you've got a lot of possibilities for later streets and kinda medium equity, you're probably better off keeping it cool rather than raising and maybe getting stacks in.

WOW, this video is really good. Probably the one I've learnt most from including all videos on all training sites I've seen so far. Keep it up!

QFT

this series is really great, I am very impressed with the quality and presentation of these concepts

In that JJ hand vs the SS ers shove and the SB overcall, Vanessa mentionend something like Phil Galfond's ... concepts, right? Does someone have a link to that?

Much appreciated...

http://www.bluffmagazine.com/onlinefeature/gbucks.asp

Regarding why the SB just calling the flop raise rather than 3-betting it doesn't necessarily mean weakness, the pot is getting so big by that point that he doesn't really have to protect his hand quite as much against draws, plus since we coldcalled preflop its less likely that we have a drawing hand ourselves anyhow.

Regarding the JJ hand I think you are missing an important point. If the SB does have a big hand like an overpair he does not only have to be concerend about giving cheap cards to draws. More important is that a lot of turn cards might totally kill the action for him (if we choose to call the flop), like a flush card or four to a straight or an Ace. If he bets into this kind of board on the turn especially given that there is a side pot its obvious for us that he wont be bluffing at all and we can get away from our medium strength hands.
So in my opinion it doesnt make a whole lot of sense for the SB to call the flop with a big hand. Furthermore there is dead money in from the third player which I think we are ahead most of the time, so we are getting good odds for a shove also.
Thus you have yet to convince me that folding is the right play here.