Great first video. Flow was very good too, everytime I was thinking something it was addressed as the next comment or topic.

Cold 4bets are incredibly profitable at these stakes and its a move not a lot of people use. Hopefully it takes some time before people catch on!

I know this series is about new moves to add in but I would like to see you quickly address the persons stats on every hand for future videos. A quick comment whether theyre meowchow, loose, nitty, whatever just to help get in the mindset of what you were seeing at the table at the time.

Looking forward to the rest of the series.

geez wish i could run that good.

jk jk, but seriously guys this rocks - i loved the way you did it of only showing interesting hands and expanding on each hand much more than conventional sweat videos. gave me a ton of things to think about in an area of my game which needed alot of work.

looking forward to future eps.

Oh shi--, I loved it.

This is the greatest vid ever made concerning 3bet pots.

Thanks guise.

Obviously all of the 3-bet scenarios are so helpful as everyone has mentioned, but I'd like to also comment on one segment that Duck talked about that honestly felt like the poker gods just opened the heavens to me.

In the pocket 10's hand you give such a great explanation regarding villain's hand range, villain's perception of your hand range, and where your hand fits in his perceived range. Every MSNL has heard this concept in one form or another, but it's never clicked for me quite like this. Definitely the next area I'm going to be working on (now that I have 3-bet pots covered). Can't wait until next week.

Thanks,
JrJordan

Pure awesomeness IMO! I remember watching this kind of videos made by ActionJack (the one from Ladbrokes) 3-4 years ago. He made couple of videos dedicated to specific scenarios like playing pocket pairs, playing suited connectors, bluffing and so on. Now after I joined CR and other coaching sites I wanted to see this kind of videos but no one ever made them. I would love to see more of them. Also I would love to see this kind of videos dedicated to some more basic concepts as well.

Edit: also: love Vanessa's voice!

First off: Very nice video with excellent commentary.

Some general questions:
Is it possible to show the pa-hud statts in the next video's?
Are there going to be hands in the future vids where you make a correct move but hit the top of someones range or it goes wrong? (It's easy to think that you can now take away every 3bet pot with position if you watch it happen 7 times in a row :)).

Some questions about the actual hands:
The 78cc hand (starts 21:35). You saythat you should do it with AA/KK and they'll call with worse hands more often.. but doesn't that mean they'll also call you more often than you want when you (semi)bluff on those boards because they put you on a semibluff? Mostly because you'll be (semi)bluffing more often because it's harder to make hands :).
What would be your calling range vs a shove when you are the villain in this spot? If AKo is not in that range would you Cbet AK on that board (again if you were in the villains spot).

the 47dd hand on 38:40
Once he checks to you on the flop you decide to make a very small bet on the flop of less then 1/2 pot. What is your action if you get called and the turn blanks out and he checks to you again, would you double barrel (to push him off a possible AK he did call the flop getting somewhat decent odds).
And if the turn comes like the Ace of hearts or the King of hearts.. would you consider 'double barreling' if checked to? (I can go on about what your river action would be but that would become a little to long :)).

I had some more questions but they were mostly about how you would handle the spots you put your opponents in. (for example in the blindbattle where you donk into him with KQ on the Kxx board, what is your default line if someone would do that to you and you're sitting with the AQ in position?)


Anywayz, Great video and looking forward to the next one :)

this series is gonna be a big hit. good job both of you. the last hand example is super interesting and i have a feeling i'm going to learn a lot from these vids

got a question though. what do you think are the merits of jamming the AQ on 664 vs floating/playing for implied odds? if you spike a pair, that figures to be a great bluff card for your opponent, and calling doesn't completely forfeit your ability to push AK off the hand later.

this series is gonna be a big hit. good job both of you. the last hand example is super interesting and i have a feeling i'm going to learn a lot from these vids

got a question though. what do you think are the merits of jamming the AQ on 664 vs floating/playing for implied odds? if you spike a pair, that figures to be a great bluff card for your opponent, and calling doesn't completely forfeit your ability to push AK off the hand later.

thanks man, looking forward to checking yours out as well. as for your question - i think calling is definitely a viable option for AQ on a 664 board, it really depends first and foremost on your opponent's double barreling frequencies. I find that a lot of people are double barreling that sort of board a decent amount (since so many people are floating it) that jamming seems a bit more enticing. As for hitting a pair and having it be a great bluff card, that's definitely true, but a) there's only 6 of them so that's not enough of a reason to call and b) with that logic, a ton of cards are good bluff cards so maybe that means we should also be calling down sometimes UI? (and I have called down in these spots with AQ with, well, varying success). All good questions, all good options... I think it's just gotta be based on reads of how villain will respond with each part of his range. With no reads, shoving is just easier and metagame-wise, will make villain think twice about constantly 3-betting light, something that is going to be very positive for your game and ability to use position in the future.

I am still learning this game and this format is perfect for me. If you made a series like this on each key concept I would be so thankful.

Paul
Expert_Wanna_B
Transforming from a Donkey to a Donkey Hunter!

I really think it was great but i have some questions aswell.

The first one is the TT hand on AT3 board or whatever. You said that the reason youre taking that line is to stack weaker aces. I mean how often are people 3betting an UTG raiser with weaker aces? Yea youre inducing alot of floats by donking into him, but i don't think he'll float with his entire air range whereas he probably will c-bet this flop with his entire air-range(agree?). The thing about him reraising your weak turnbet with a picked up draw on the turn might aswell go the same way with him double barreling the turn with say a picked up fd on the turn.
When it comes to mediocore hands(such as JJ-KK, or so), i don't think you're going to get 3 streets of value anywasy.

About the KQ hand, this would also be a nice spot to balance your range after shoving air in 3-4spots, right? (cause you would often shove here with AQ, right?).

Hey Suwalski,

You make some excellent points here about the TT hand. I think the key thing to remember (and we will emphasize this as the series continues, just make sure to stay tuned) is that we are making a series about alternatives to the "standard" lines. Do I take this line with a flopped set in a 3bet pot always? Definitely not. Not even the majority of the time. But taking it sometimes adds deception because it confuses my opponents and it also allows me to take that line with other hands.

A huge reason it's good to have different lines for all different hands is a concept I like to think about like this... in poker, you should have an arsenal of moves. Every time you take a different line with a different hand, it adds that move to your arsenal. The more moves you have in your arsenal (that are known to your opponent), the more options you will have to take the one you think is the best given the situation, and thus the tougher you will be to play against. So while all your points are valid, and both check/call check/call (or another line) is a great line with TT on AT3r, this series is about adding moves that are different, and the one I show in this video is one I love to do some of the time.

Hope that helps.

Wow!

This is an awesome video... very clear, concise points and extremely in depth.

Definitely going to watch this one a couple more times.

Sick video and a great format, this is one of the most effective learning tools I've seen so far online aside from coaching. I have a few comments on the video and a few on specific hands.

One thing that you kind of skirted over in your commentary was your table image and how it effects the EV of different kinds of plays in 3bet pots. From the looks of things you guys were playing fast and loose at these tables (59s lol) looking for interesting spots, but that obv effects how frequently you get looked up on your bluffs and how thin you can make your vbets. A little bit of commentary on how meta can and should shape your lines would be the illest.

I agreed with most of the plays you guys made aside from preflop on a bunch of them but whatever that's not what the video was about. One thing that I did notice earlier on in the video which kinda irked me was that on a few of your bluffs you either repped nothing or a pretty narrow range of hands, which is obv gonna get you looked up real light by good handreaders (which are rare at 1/2, granted) The most egregious example of this was the AQs hand where you open/called the button then bluffshoved over the cbet on the K84 or whatever. Given the climate of todays game you're pretty much always 4betting AK there, as well as AA and KK a ton of the time I should think. Also, you're prob gonna be just calling with a set at least some % of the time on the flop (though shoving is a great option just because it looks so bluffy). I mean, I guess you could be shoving KQ looking for thin value, but beyond that it really just looks like you're FOS. That was really my only problem with how the hands were played

Overall sick sick vid, hopefully it will bring out the inner spewtard in all of us. Great job.

I really think it was great but i have some questions aswell.

The first one is the TT hand on AT3 board or whatever. You said that the reason youre taking that line is to stack weaker aces. I mean how often are people 3betting an UTG raiser with weaker aces? Yea youre inducing alot of floats by donking into him, but i don't think he'll float with his entire air range whereas he probably will c-bet this flop with his entire air-range(agree?). The thing about him reraising your weak turnbet with a picked up draw on the turn might aswell go the same way with him double barreling the turn with say a picked up fd on the turn.
When it comes to mediocore hands(such as JJ-KK, or so), i don't think you're going to get 3 streets of value anywasy.

About the KQ hand, this would also be a nice spot to balance your range after shoving air in 3-4spots, right? (cause you would often shove here with AQ, right?).

I really liked the video btw! And you're def. better at poker than i am(without doubt!!). Btw i really like this sort of videos compared to cardrunners, where i spend 40minutes at muddywater folding a3o on the button. Great that you have specific topics for each videos, very nice.

Well one of the best parts about leading with TT there is that you give him a chance to float or bluffraise bad hands. Since we have two more streets to get the monies in on, he has a much better chance of taking the bait eventually and putting the rest of his stack in bad.

Basically, nobody ever leads into a reraiser like this very often, so nobody understands how to play against it, and more often than not they'll do something stupid if you choose your spot well.


As for the KQ hand, of course you realize these aren't sequential so we probably hadn't been shoving air a lot before it happened, but sure, KQ is a good hand to balance your bluffshoves with, if you're against somebody on the right level (aka pretty sharp and knows the moves).

I have to say its one of the best if not the best videos for low limit grinders to learn a few fancy moves. The format for the series is going to be awesome, DJ and FD are a perfect combo IMO.
Really looking forward to the rest of the series, i think its a good idea for to watch this several times and also take some notes for future reference. The stuff in this video is golden for us all.

Ty for taking time to make all the videos guys!

excellent vid. loved the format.

scuse my french but that video was absolutely fucking awesome :)
Its obvious to see the effort that was put into this video, and i like to congratulate Dan and Vanessa for what was fantastically executed explanation of a particular subject, looking very much forward to future videos. Anyway i've watched 4 awesome videos back to back, so im off to the Gym for a run cos i'm getting a headache from all this awesome content.

Nice video. I really hate what you guys are doing to the natural order of things I must say though.

I love it when LAGtards spew a whole buyin at you way behind because they think you're pulling a move. <3 <3 <3

Honestly, (and this isn't trying to be rude) but Vanessa is much better at this than DJ Sensei is. I'm not sure quite what it is, but Vanessa seems more natural and better at explaining the reasoning for the plays.

Very constructive ..

---

Both of you are great .. can't wait for another episode =).

Excellent.

nah we dont have PMs yet, but you can send it to me on 2+2

Sensei,

I take it back after watching the second video. I think I might have just been taking the idea that Vanessa just sounds better on video and turned it into something it wasn't. You explained things well enough in the second video. Keep up the good work.

In my eyes the second hand ( 4-bet with 33) is bad played. Hero should raise bigger and call the shove.
As played hero has still an easy call and no fold against a shove by the Button and perhaps a close fold against a shove by the Small blind.

Great video showcasing some non-standard plays that, when used judiciously have the potential to really pad your winrate. My main suggestion would be to add in some comments about how frequently plays should be made. You mention that the cold 4 bet should be done at most once per session. Some other specific examples of where this kind of commentary would be useful:

(a) You mention checking behind Ax in a reraised pot when an ace flops. How often are you checking behind with this type of hand? If you do it too often, then in polarises your cbetting range into monsters or bluffs and (as you mentioned) since you don't have monsters too often...a thinking villain will check/raise you like crazy...

(b) If you raise with a suited connector on the button and get 3bet from the blinds, how often are you calling the 3bet. I know that this depends a lot on villain, table image, game flow etc but from the video you make it seem like you would always call the bet hoping to outplay the villain postflop. For 100BB stacks, my standard play with a SC is to fold to a 3bet.

(c) Delayed float is an interesting concept. What type of "real" hands would you play in this way? At the moment I can't think of any hands where I check the flop in position, call the turn and then value bet the river.

Looking forward to the rest of the series!!

Great video showcasing some non-standard plays that, when used judiciously have the potential to really pad your winrate. My main suggestion would be to add in some comments about how frequently plays should be made. You mention that the cold 4 bet should be done at most once per session. Some other specific examples of where this kind of commentary would be useful:

(a) You mention checking behind Ax in a reraised pot when an ace flops. How often are you checking behind with this type of hand? If you do it too often, then in polarises your cbetting range into monsters or bluffs and (as you mentioned) since you don't have monsters too often...a thinking villain will check/raise you like crazy...

(b) If you raise with a suited connector on the button and get 3bet from the blinds, how often are you calling the 3bet. I know that this depends a lot on villain, table image, game flow etc but from the video you make it seem like you would always call the bet hoping to outplay the villain postflop. For 100BB stacks, my standard play with a SC is to fold to a 3bet.

(c) Delayed float is an interesting concept. What type of "real" hands would you play in this way? At the moment I can't think of any hands where I check the flop in position, call the turn and then value bet the river.

Looking forward to the rest of the series!!

a) Against somebody who you're playing with for the first time, I think checkbehind should be standard with Ax (KK or QQ are pretty much the same as Ax, too) and bet should be standard with air. Against people who you play against a lot, you should mix it up: bet some Ax's, check back some weaker hands. That principle is probably solid for a lot of specific situational plays, actually.

b) I would say that calling should be standard, actually, and folding should be a mix-up depending on the situation. In today's games, you're just getting 3-bet so much that you can't afford to raise-fold too often, especially with hands like SC's that are among the more favorable hands to have in that spot.

c) Well obviously the point of a delayed float is to represent a decent but not huge hand, because he won't try to bluff you if he knows you're in "bluff-catcher" mode. So, when you take that line, most of the time you should have just that. Maybe a hand like 88 on a 954 board, or Ax on a dry ace-high board.


As for frequency, most all of these plays should certainly not be your standard, but you can use them until you get caught :). Like all bluffs, they work better if you don't use them often.

On the delayed float with position, what's your move if villian leads out into you on the river or raises your river bet.
Do you generally fold or continue the bluff with some other move?

BTW, Great video!

On the delayed float with position, what's your move if villian leads out into you on the river or raises your river bet.
Do you generally fold or continue the bluff with some other move?

BTW, Great video!

The main reasoning behind the delayed float is that once the villain checks to us twice he doesn't have much of anything, and as a result we can bet him off of it. If he fires one of those two streets we'll generally be giving up, though of course if we sense some sort of weakness in that bet theres always the possibility of making a second move (usually a shove)

Hey Professors,

Great video. I'm not even all the way through it and I wanted to post a comment and a question. First, I'm going to +1 the request for your intro music.

Second, I really agree with Xanta that the AQdd on the Kh8s5h board seems highly spewy. I understand the squeeze aspect of your read and how that impacts his hand range but he still has nearly half his stack in and he's getting 2.5:1 on a call and unless my math is off you need him to fold over 50% of the time (assuming 0 equity when called). This, combined with the fact that your line makes very little sense (as Xanta pointed out) just made me stop the video right there to see if anyone else had commented on it.

While the texture is fairly dry you have to know that you are getting called by hearts and 76 and probably 98, 87, 65, 54 with one heart as well with the pot laying such a price as well as AK, KQ, KJ, sets, 85, etc.

In any case I know you are both on the Whiz end of the math spectrum so it would be helpful to those of us who have to work this stuff out with slide rules and punch cards if you could point out "in this case we are going to shove, which means we think he is going to fold more than 55% of the time" which is a judgment we mere mortals might have a better chance of making within the flow of the game.

Finally, I love the site and what I've seen from this video so far. I signed up because I heard Vanessa on pokerroad or 2+2 radio (one of those streamed poker shows) and I had the pleasure of seeing her in action once in Atlantic City and I'm very happy that I did. I'm looking forward to more great content.

Shawn

Shawn,

If you consider that the majority of players will fold everything worse than a pair of kings here (though I guess they'll call with draws too which is OK with me) I think that we're going to fold out way more than 55% of his range, or whatever the appropriate amount is for our purposes. As you get into higher-stakes games, people will start to call with QQ or JJ or sometimes less when you shove here, which can make things more complicated, but in a 1/2 game I don't expect people to do that.

Hey, Congrats on going deep at the 101. I'm hooked on pokerstove like a fiend so in these spots I want to have some idea of his squeezing range and then check to see if he's going to fold 55% of those hands (all this is after the fact of course). The 55% number comes from us risking $178 to win $143 so by my math for the play to be breakeven we need -$178 *(1-p) = $143 *p so p (the probability our move wins us the $143 without a fight) must be 0.55. Maybe you can confirm this (or laugh at my nitty mathness). So what kind of range of hands do you give the BB there?

A brief aside, does the doublestacked limp from EP influence the range you give to the BB? Obviously most of the time a limp is just a limp, but does the fact that he is not just squeezing the SB have any significance for you?

Thanks,

Shawn

This is good stuff. But I don't want to let the whole intro music question fall between the cracks.

Maybe the reason the hand bothered me is the lack of context. With 99+ and AJ+ and the BB playing fit or fold the move seems very +EV (although it would be very interesting to calculate how often the flop will fit that range, monte carlo simulator anyone?), if you throw in KQ and KJ and/or your BB is ready to make a stand it becomes super-marginal, so I guess it depends pretty heavily on both your read on your opponent and your own image.

I tend to bomb away too much which would make your play chip suicide for me. I'd almost rather be out of position there and be first to fire (ala gus hansen). If I'm opening AQs there from the button and I get 3bet I'm gonna push or fold based on how fast I've been playing and how often I'm getting played back at.

Anyway, about that opening music...

Anyway, about that opening music...

I wish I knew. It was some royalty free (uncredited) stuff that came with some software packages.

Rob

Thanks for that Dan. I was right about what it was but I do NOT want to assume anything at this early stage of the game. Liked the way you phrased that I even wrote it down verbatim in my notes. :-)

great video, I just played and completely misapplied all of the information. lol...guess Ill watch it again now.

If you spend some solid time thinking about

1) why a play works
2) when the best time to use it is (and against what type of opponents!)

then you'll do much better with fancy moves.

Overall great video. Concepts were both explained and demonstrated thoroughly.

I had one question in regard to the floating concept (and I'm going to manipulate the actual hand to illustrate):

This is the first hand that Vanessa used to discuss double floating.
Vanessa had Ad10d on the button, and raised it. She was 3-bet by the big blind sabsters, and she called.

Flop came: 6d3c9s

sabsters bet $22.
Vanessa called

Turn: 4s.

Both check

Now, here is my question: in the actual hand, the river was the Jh. Fairly innocuous card. But what if the river had been something like the Ac...or a spade, some much more dangerous card. What would you do if sabsters then bet into you? Assume that he has something like a better Ace or he hit a flush and then you would fold? What if he didn't bet into you? Would you still try to bet or would you simply check behind?

I realize that this is a question largely dependent upon your opponent and your reads of them, but it seems to me that even in the lower stakes (I play mostly NL50) that people loove to bluff aces and flushes...