Episode Eight
Episode Eight
All good things must come to an end. In the final installment of Season One of Unconventional Wisdom, see the last half of Dan and Vanessa's 4-tabling session and get a better feel for how often it's wise to be unconventional. Music: Kevin MacLeod
tags: unconventional wisdom fslexcduck dj sensei vanessa selbst vanessa 4-tabling nlhe no limit multitabling live play table play
This Series: Unconventional Wisdom
Join DJ Sensei and Vanessa Selbst as they think outside the box. Hand after hand of unorthodox, tricky and engaging play for the small stakes No-Limit player. Bid goodbye to ABC poker but be careful not to spew!
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Comments for Episode Eight
- Entity
- Founder
- Quad Deuces
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2044 posts
Joined 11/06
Reply button is back, guys. Yay!
- SlimboKarvell
- Deuce High
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32 posts
Joined 01/08
Finally ;) Just wanted to thank you for the series, very informative and a lot of ideas I never saw on other training sites! Hope to see sth. like this again!
- DJ Sensei
- Exec Producer
- Deuces Full
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705 posts
Joined 10/07
Heh, I love the end montage of complete ownage hands
- tehmac
- Deuce High
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49 posts
Joined 01/08
Superb video series, I have learnt a TON from it. Just want to say thank you to Vanessa and Dan for all their hard work and I cannot wait to see future collaborations or individual works from them both!
P.S. What song was played during the end montage?
- hockey999
- Deuce High
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17 posts
Joined 01/08
Great series guys!
I'm wondering if you could post the EV graphs so we can see the comparison of total winnings verses showdown winnings. I'm trying to improve my winnings without showdown.
Thanks a lot you two!
- Entity
- Founder
- Quad Deuces
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2044 posts
Joined 11/06
P.S. What song was played during the end montage?
It's a song by Kevin MacLeod called "Grip Hop." :)
Rob
- dspade
- Deuce High
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3 posts
Joined 01/08
just switched from cardrunners - your series blows away anything done over there.. eye opener for me on how to play hands..
- hipo
- Deuce High
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2 posts
Joined 02/08
lol
your completly out of line when u talk
You say anything and hope its right
i dont think u have any idea how to get paid
A-10
FullTiltPoker Game #4363646781: Table Sunrise (6 max) - $1/$2 - No Limit Hold'em - 0:20:12 ET - 2007/12/02
Seat 1: siddhi ($0), is sitting out
Seat 2: SimBlouin ($265.65)
Seat 3: fslexcduck ($497.10)
Seat 4: Airwalz ($241.70)
Seat 5: Freudian Bet ($343.40)
Seat 6: Kenny HK Wong ($488.80)
siddhi stands up
Kenny HK Wong posts the small blind of $1
SimBlouin posts the big blind of $2
The button is in seat #5
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to SimBlouin [Jh Ac]
fslexcduck raises to $7
Airwalz folds
Freudian Bet folds
Kenny HK Wong folds
SimBlouin calls $5
*** FLOP *** [3d Ad 6h]
SimBlouin has 15 seconds left to act
SimBlouin bets $9
fslexcduck raises to $18
SimBlouin calls $9
*** TURN *** [3d Ad 6h] [8h]
SimBlouin checks
fslexcduck checks
*** RIVER *** [3d Ad 6h 8h] [Td]
SimBlouin bets $14
fslexcduck raises to $68
SimBlouin has 15 seconds left to act
SimBlouin has requested TIME
SimBlouin folds
Uncalled bet of $54 returned to fslexcduck
fslexcduck mucks
fslexcduck wins the pot ($76)
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $79 | Rake $3
Board: [3d Ad 6h 8h Td]
Seat 1: siddhi is sitting out
Seat 2: SimBlouin (big blind) folded on the River
Seat 3: fslexcduck collected ($76), mucked
Seat 4: Airwalz didn't bet (folded)
Seat 5: Freudian Bet (button) didn't bet (folded)
Seat 6: Kenny HK Wong (small blind) folded before the Flop
JJ
FullTiltPoker Game #4363183537: Table Sunrise (6 max) - $1/$2 - No Limit Hold'em - 23:32:47 ET - 2007/12/01
Seat 1: siddhi ($184.20)
Seat 2: SimBlouin ($225.10)
Seat 3: fslexcduck ($489.50)
Seat 4: 112357 ($379.65)
Seat 5: Freudian Bet ($201)
Seat 6: Kenny HK Wong ($502.75)
Freudian Bet posts the small blind of $1
Kenny HK Wong posts the big blind of $2
The button is in seat #4
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to SimBlouin [3s 3h]
siddhi folds
SimBlouin raises to $8
fslexcduck calls $8
112357 folds
Freudian Bet folds
Kenny HK Wong folds
*** FLOP *** [7c 7h 7d]
SimBlouin bets $14
fslexcduck has 15 seconds left to act
fslexcduck calls $14
*** TURN *** [7c 7h 7d] [Jd]
SimBlouin bets $28
fslexcduck has 15 seconds left to act
fslexcduck has requested TIME
fslexcduck raises to $76
SimBlouin has 15 seconds left to act
SimBlouin adds $24.90
SimBlouin folds
Uncalled bet of $48 returned to fslexcduck
fslexcduck mucks
fslexcduck wins the pot ($100)
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $103 | Rake $3
Board: [7c 7h 7d Jd]
Seat 1: siddhi didn't bet (folded)
Seat 2: SimBlouin folded on the Turn
Seat 3: fslexcduck collected ($100), mucked
Seat 4: 112357 (button) didn't bet (folded)
Seat 5: Freudian Bet (small blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 6: Kenny HK Wong (big blind) folded before the Flop
- fslexcduck
- Exec Producer
- Pair of Deuces
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146 posts
Joined 10/07
lol, i didn't realize we were supposed to get "paid" when you have crappy hands, i'm very sorry to insult you...
fwiw i argued with dan about just calling with JJ but he thought we should raise. i still am a fan of just calling since you value bet any big pairs, maybe continue bluffing, and maybe catch an A or a K with AK or something. the raising, which can be a fine play, was based on information which we later figured out was incorrect. and we did acknowledge that you weren't as big a nit as we first thought -
lesson to learn: pokertracker stats over a very small sample size don't tell the whole truth.
i don't get if the point of your post was antagonistic or not, but whatever, those are my thoughts. once again, sorry if you took offense to anything we were saying, i don't really think we were offensive in any way however...
- hipo
- Deuce High
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2 posts
Joined 02/08
(im french)
maybe I was a little rude and direct when i chosen my words lol
I wasen't trying to insult anyone
il try to explain it more decently
I just thought you lost alot of value on theses hands because you were wrong sometimes
I think u whould have got theses information by being more agressive on the first streets. (*question linked to that on the botton)
On the first hand your raise is too big (based on a hand played passively). It only can be a a monster. AT was about the worst hand you could have here. No way it was a bluff.
On the second hand, if you read me on AK you should let me catch my card and be 100% assured to take my stack. (based on your read) Let me contignu to bluff, and if I dont hit anything you still can collect a good part of my stack if not all of it.
*I have a question
Why you flat called the QQ agains someone who had double the blind and a flat call?
Sorry if im not clear, its not my native language
- Descartes1NY
- Deuce High
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1 post
Joined 02/08
What is the song during the opening when "Unconventional Wisdom" appears on screen?
- beachbum
- Deuce High
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16 posts
Joined 01/08
Great series guys!
I'm wondering if you could post the EV graphs so we can see the comparison of total winnings verses showdown winnings. I'm trying to improve my winnings without showdown.
Thanks a lot you two!
- stoney2285
- Deuce High
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3 posts
Joined 02/07
I know that one of the villains did this but hypothetically, if you were to raise the turn with tpgk or something in that range, are you folding to a shove? I would want to say yes but if you raise the turn, generally you have a very large portion of your stack in there already.
- DJ Sensei
- Exec Producer
- Deuces Full
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705 posts
Joined 10/07
hmm thats kind of a vague question... so i´ll give a vague answer:
1) if you have 90% of your stack in and are 100% sure you´re beat, you should fold. but that doesnt happen very often
2) you should rarely play a hand in such a way that the last decision you make is a difficult and unexpected one. the most common manifestation of this is poor stack-size management.
3) if you raise the turn with any hand while committing a big chunk of chips, you should know exactly how to respond to a shove. thats pretty much the same as #2 but a more specific example.
- DJ Sensei
- Exec Producer
- Deuces Full
-
705 posts
Joined 10/07
Great series guys!
I'm wondering if you could post the EV graphs so we can see the comparison of total winnings verses showdown winnings. I'm trying to improve my winnings without showdown.
Thanks a lot you two!
I´d recommend against that. Just try to improve your total winnings, and don´t worry too much about where they come from. In any case, I don´t know how seeing an EV graph would give you any help at all towards increasing non-showdown winnings.
- stoney2285
- Deuce High
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3 posts
Joined 02/07
hmm thats kind of a vague question... so i´ll give a vague answer:
1) if you have 90% of your stack in and are 100% sure you´re beat, you should fold. but that doesnt happen very often
2) you should rarely play a hand in such a way that the last decision you make is a difficult and unexpected one. the most common manifestation of this is poor stack-size management.
3) if you raise the turn with any hand while committing a big chunk of chips, you should know exactly how to respond to a shove. thats pretty much the same as #2 but a more specific example.
Okay I guess more specifically, assuming you were the villain in the hand where villain raised the turn with QJ (tpgk) and you had a flush draw. If you had raised that board for a cheap showdown, Im assuming you would be folding to a shove despite the fact that you have put in money on the flop and a raise on the turn. Is this wrong?
- DJ Sensei
- Exec Producer
- Deuces Full
-
705 posts
Joined 10/07
can´t watch the videos right now, but it all depends. Most of the time though, if you raise the turn and get 3-bet, a weak top pair isn´t looking that good (but the odds on a call may well be nice!). A tough situation, regardless. Thats mostly what I was alluding to in my previous post. Chances are TPdecentK isn´t a good hand to raise the turn with, unless its all going in or the stacks are deep. But I hate to generalize.
- sapper1
- Deuce High
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8 posts
Joined 03/08
lol @ the "jrosenkrantz56". I'm off to create 'vselbst45'.
- Learn2Earn
- Deuce High
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5 posts
Joined 03/08
I'm new here and to the videos but wanted to say something.
Great series-the insight it gave me into the systematic application of aggression has drastically changed my game for the better. It is amazing to be 90% sure you pushed folks off better hands.
I actually had a guy fold the river on a 250.00 pot last night when I shoved the last 24.00 of my stack and he had 17.00 behind-folded and was gone from the table like a ghost. We were both at around 150bb, I had pocket J's (no spade)on the button on an AK10s board-lol. Folded to me I raise pot-he 3 bets-I-4 bet-call. He bets about 1/3 pot and I min raise the flop (AKsX) he checked the turn (10s)-I bet 3/4 pot and he calls-thought I was toast(should have been)-brick river and I shove my last 24.00 and he folds. Pretty sure he had AK maybe KK or nothing. I had already re-bought. Not optimal play but fun anyway. Just learning and got a little carried away maybe. Lucked out.
Back to Earth now, very good results for me even after just seeing episode 3. I have read about aggression, seen it, (been run over by it) but never actually understood it. Especialy how to incorporate it into the natural flow of the game. This was very helpful in getting me to see the method in the madness so to speak. It is very effective training and I've paid for my 6 mo membership 3 times in 4 sessions of around 500 hands total at 100nl 6m. I'll be back at 200 soon I think. I'm playing around 17/13/4 FWIW. I'm watching it all again. Big changes here-differant game. Dinners on me if you get to Seattle.
- DJ Sensei
- Exec Producer
- Deuces Full
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705 posts
Joined 10/07
Dinners on me if you get to Seattle.
Deal!
- dwf76
- Deuce High
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20 posts
Joined 03/08
Great series guy's, I feel i've learnt more from this series than from all the videos I watched at a rival site and it was because of this I decided to end my subscription their and stick with DC.
I hope you think there is enough scope and topics to cover that would allow you to do something very similar in the future, and if you decide to definately get it rigged up for dual commentary for vids like no.7 and 8.
Many thanks.
- Beckham
- Deuce High
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5 posts
Joined 04/08
Best pokerserie ever watched, thank you dan and vanessa! 
- DJ Sensei
- Exec Producer
- Deuces Full
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705 posts
Joined 10/07
yall are very welcome
- sg4rb0
- Deuce High
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2 posts
Joined 05/08
On one of the hands you had pocket nines and bet 7 from middle, and get called by the button. the flop is 874 two diamonds, why did you check and not bet into him? surely lower pairs + the flush draw + the straight draw + maybe overcards are in his range and going to call your bet. I dont get your thought process? btw im totally not disrespecting you cos your totally awsome lol, just wanna get my head round it :D
Another thing is that I dont understand why you bet pf from late, get called by an utg limper, then he checks to you on the flop and you check behind with like AJ on a 569 rainbow board. Is this because you but so much of his range on those types of hand or? whats your thinking? why wouldnt you c-bet?