Episode Eight
Episode Eight
Tubasteve and n0whereman bring in a very special (and very tall) guest for their final episode. Watch as they impact a little Whack Em knowledge to the king of Late Night Coaching.
tags: tubasteve n0whereman nlhe 6max replayer 1-tabling ipod friendly joe tall
This Series: From the Ground Up
Primer to online shorthanded No Limit play from n0whereman and tubasteve. Everything you need to know to get started playing and winning in aggressive games. Learn your NL ABCs from our top small stakes No Limit Holdem' instructors.
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Comments for Episode Eight
- Dead-Inside
- Deuce High
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33 posts
Joined 05/08
It just says Episode Eight.
- InverseX
- Pair of Deuces
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132 posts
Joined 07/08
I think you'll find this is from the ground up episode 8
- Dead-Inside
- Deuce High
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33 posts
Joined 05/08
I think you'll find this is from the ground up episode 8
Well obviously, I'm just thinking it should be corrected, I needed to start the video before I knew what it was 
.
- forker
- Pair of Deuces
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201 posts
Joined 05/08
I realize again that my oop post-flop aggression is too high in NL, and it needs a lot of fixing done.
This is one of my favorite lesson formats. Tremendously educational video, and Joe's contribution during this episode was very valuable for me as a limit player.
Thanks for this awesome series tubasteve, and n0whereman. I had a lot of fun watching and listening to all your episodes, and I very much hope that you will be back next season for more of this good stuff.
- pkr_brat
- Deuces Full
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605 posts
Joined 01/08
I liked it. Nice to see me butcher a hand and for the record i would raise all my raising hands to that with the villian involved. The last hand was the weirdest played hand ever. I enjoyed this series plenty for me to rewatch, well done guys good stuff. N the fact late night coaching will be back made this just that bit better.
- kondor101
- Set of Deuces
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466 posts
Joined 02/08
great series, great season and a great episode.
- xerocat
- Set of Deuces
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387 posts
Joined 03/08
I thought you were for sure ending with deuces getting cracked.
On that hand, you guys were talking about check/calling the flop with the set. I just wanted to get a few more comments on that since one thing I was thinking the whole time was how many scare cards could come on the turn to kill your action if a fish were to have something like 99-JJ.
1) Are you more apt to check/raise against a much tighter range (UTG opens, Nit stats, etc) on this flop for the above reason?
2) Are you more apt to check/call against a looser range (BU open, LAG stat, etc) since villain is betting a wide range and another card improves our chances for villain making a good 2nd best hand?
I really enjoyed the series guys. You both did a really good job at explaining the concepts well. I know tuba is doing something soon; n0whereman, are you doing any stand-alone series in the future?
- alexhandros
- Deuce High
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16 posts
Joined 01/08
I think the 87 bluff on the river is excellent. I think the initial raiser will give serious credence to folding AK or AQ, and those are the strongest hands in his range. The 15.50 bet is the perfect number, it looks very strong, our hero looks like he has a flush. I wish the results were provided because looking at the bet I was immediately sure that both players would fold.
- alexhandros
- Deuce High
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16 posts
Joined 01/08
Also Joe, you misunderstood why there are only 3 bad aces. The ace of spades gives the hero the nuts. Discounting outs because of the preflop action is incorrect. Other than this, excellent logic for the most part, and good analysis by all of you.
- SCS
- Pair of Deuces
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202 posts
Joined 06/08
In the second hand (KK on the AcTcx board) how are we proceeding on the river if it's the Kc?
- InverseX
- Pair of Deuces
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132 posts
Joined 07/08
In the KK hand dicused around the 19 minute mark.
Against which type of villains would you not be two barreling here (if any).
Also is the main reason you are two barreling because its a draw heavy board which widens his range up past the aces he is more likely to play? What would you do on a board such as AT9 rainbow? How about A93 rainbow?
- Joe Tall
- Founder
- Quad Deuces
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2058 posts
Joined 11/06
Also Joe, you misunderstood why there are only 3 bad aces. The ace of spades gives the hero the nuts. Discounting outs because of the preflop action is incorrect. Other than this, excellent logic for the most part, and good analysis by all of you.
Opps you are correct, however, I still wanted to get that point in so I hoped it is not confused here and can help someone.
This was fun to do, great job Tuba and N0whereman, enjoyed it!
- Cadaz
- Deuce High
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29 posts
Joined 06/08
Hey guys, great vid and analysis for all of the hands. Hope the next series for us micro guys are just as good.
Just for info in the aqo hand of mine, the original utg preflop raiser was a 27/23/4.5 and the stats I gave (20/8/3) were for the guy that called.
- yobbo
- Deuce High
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69 posts
Joined 12/07
I think the 87 bluff on the river is excellent. I think the initial raiser will give serious credence to folding AK or AQ, and those are the strongest hands in his range. The 15.50 bet is the perfect number, it looks very strong, our hero looks like he has a flush. I wish the results were provided because looking at the bet I was immediately sure that both players would fold.
I thought it was great too, trying to fold top pair from a tag, but you can never be sure when you're doing it, so sent it in for analysis. Then the prior commentary detailed some obvious mistakes I made and how the river bet can easily fail, while I thought I could get away with it. Thanks for the help guys!
Oh and villian tanked down and called AJ two pair .
- tubasteve
- Quad Deuces
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1994 posts
Joined 11/07
On that hand, you guys were talking about check/calling the flop with the set. I just wanted to get a few more comments on that since one thing I was thinking the whole time was how many scare cards could come on the turn to kill your action if a fish were to have something like 99-JJ.
1) Are you more apt to check/raise against a much tighter range (UTG opens, Nit stats, etc) on this flop for the above reason?
yeah, the more likely we think villain will have an overpair the more often we just bomb the flop with a c/r
2) Are you more apt to check/call against a looser range (BU open, LAG stat, etc) since villain is betting a wide range and another card improves our chances for villain making a good 2nd best hand?
that would be correct. its hard for someone to flop anything on an 582r board esp when we have the deck crippled with middle set. there are no 2p combinations, straight draws (67 big whoop), and no flush draw. now lets say i had called in the blind with something like KQ, this is a good spot to c/r if you think villain is on a wide range b/c your hand has no value, we are OOP so can't take it away easily on the turn by calling, and its tough for him to have flopped anything.
I really enjoyed the series guys. You both did a really good job at explaining the concepts well. I know tuba is doing something soon; n0whereman, are you doing any stand-alone series in the future?
we were just discussing some ideas today for a n0whereman standal0ne vide0...any thematic ideas anyone? 
- tubasteve
- Quad Deuces
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1994 posts
Joined 11/07
In the second hand (KK on the AcTcx board) how are we proceeding on the river if it's the Kc?
its probably a bet/call. checking is definitely too weak, and you need some pretty sick reads to fold considering our hand strength and the odds we'd be getting to fill up the times we're behind.
In the KK hand dicused around the 19 minute mark.
Against which type of villains would you not be two barreling here (if any).
probably nits, guys with high fcb %. but against those guys we might not even bet the flop 100% of the time.
Also is the main reason you are two barreling because its a draw heavy board which widens his range up past the aces he is more likely to play? What would you do on a board such as AT9 rainbow? How about A93 rainbow?
yeah its simply b/c there are tons of worse hands to get called by. just a simple value bet. always think about your opponents ENTIRE range, not just the couple you lose to. on AT9 rainbow its closer, against a big fish i'd just bet to get called by any pair or straight draw, but the tighter they are pre the less apt i am to even c-bet the flop. on A93r i think i would check a ton of hte time unless i thought my opponent was good enough to exploit me by multi-barreling. there are no bad turn cards and you can get your opponent to bluff sometimes. also, if you check the flop, they check behind, and a T-Q (plus some other stuff) comes on the turn you'll often be able to get value from broadway hands that have either a pair or a gutshot+"pair outs" since it doesnt look like you have an A.
- miksnake
- Deuce High
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11 posts
Joined 08/08
Where to now? What's the next best logical video to watch after watching this series?
- tubasteve
- Quad Deuces
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1994 posts
Joined 11/07
Where to now? What's the next best logical video to watch after watching this series?
the coaching tree!
but in all reality check out WoT's math of nlhe, his micro-NL grinder series, or josh's turning the corner.
- Deusdeorum
- Deuce High
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20 posts
Joined 07/08
as mentioned in the other thread (Which yet has to bee replied to ) : loved the series. I played around 20k hands on nl25 and didnt have a positive bb/h although i always thought I had quite an edge. But just looking at this series made me fix some leaks (still: i guess i havean edge 
)
Thanks for it guys!
2 questions to the vid:
the KK Hand - what would you do if you wouldn`t have the K of Spade? (say, KcKh). checking is no option then right? bet/raise the flop, bet/shove turn (bet/fold if a spade comes) ?
AQ - if i take your line - c/c flop. What to do on the turn? Donking? I mean, almost all cards are a blank - my hand would be too obvious then wouldn`t it? But on the other side...Villain wouldn`t want to 2nd barrel (if he is reasonable) with a PP since he`s got shodownvalue - so i might loose value in a check.
so, bet or c/r ?