Poker Video: Pot-Limit Omaha by KasinoKrime (Micro/Small Stakes)

yes yes yes! my day just got better

Time Link to 00:54:44

could you elaborate on the concept of betting the flop to take the pot on the turn? How much is this hand different from the AA35r hand earlier?

I understand what you're saying, people call very wide on the flop and they'll often be forced to fold to aggression; but you're oop, a lot of the hands that call you are almost flipping with you and it's not like they are folding the turn if they improve in any way.
e.g. If you get called twice, I feel like it's almost a crime to let the river go check check and he wins with his crappy small 2 pair but I also don't know if I can bluff because maybe a backdoor draw came in and he could easily have that or maybe he simply won't fold his top and bottom. Also the times the board runs out good for your hand are the times people are most likely to fold; so once you get to the river you are basically never happy check calling, either you bluff in a not-so-great spot or you check and automatically lose the pot.

In other words, I don't think pumping money in the pot with a thin equity edge is a good idea because even if your opponent is bad, just the simple fact that he has position will help him a great deal to make up for his disadvantage. An analogy with holdem might be barrelling a hand like 77 on a Q95r board because you know villain peels the flop with any gutshot; there are simply better hands you can pick to do that.

Time Link to 00:48:49

Do you think that the ace of hearts on that flop generally makes a difference for a successful bluff?

In my limited experience, people are far more likely to believe me if an ace is not included in a monotone flop.

Loved the vid...

awesome video guys can't wait for the next installment.

could you elaborate on the concept of betting the flop to take the pot on the turn? How much is this hand different from the AA35r hand earlier?

I understand what you're saying, people call very wide on the flop and they'll often be forced to fold to aggression; but you're oop, a lot of the hands that call you are almost flipping with you and it's not like they are folding the turn if they improve in any way.
e.g. If you get called twice, I feel like it's almost a crime to let the river go check check and he wins with his crappy small 2 pair but I also don't know if I can bluff because maybe a backdoor draw came in and he could easily have that or maybe he simply won't fold his top and bottom. Also the times the board runs out good for your hand are the times people are most likely to fold; so once you get to the river you are basically never happy check calling, either you bluff in a not-so-great spot or you check and automatically lose the pot.

In other words, I don't think pumping money in the pot with a thin equity edge is a good idea because even if your opponent is bad, just the simple fact that he has position will help him a great deal to make up for his disadvantage. An analogy with holdem might be barrelling a hand like 77 on a Q95r board because you know villain peels the flop with any gutshot; there are simply better hands you can pick to do that.

Hi asdrubale -

Thanks for the comment, and for checking out the video as well! So I can answer your question a bit better, can you give me the timestamp for the AA35r hand you mentioned? Thanks again!

JB

Do you think that the ace of hearts on that flop generally makes a difference for a successful bluff?

In my limited experience, people are far more likely to believe me if an ace is not included in a monotone flop.

Loved the vid...

Hi leluahma -

Thanks for checking out the video. I think it mostly depends on what level your opponents are on, and how much they're considering the naked ace (or K for that matter) bluff in their range. But for the most part I don't think there's as much of a difference. It might give you more FE because people assign top set or top two pair type hands into your range more on A high boards than K high boards, so in their minds they won't think you'll lay those down as easily. For example, say you 3b an opponent and he calls you, you'll get more FE on a A high monotone flop than you will a K high flop most of the time because they'll give you more credit for having AAxx type hands. And in 3b pots people don't lay those down as easily.

For the most part though at the lower stakes, I don't think it makes much of a difference. Hopefully this helps. Feel free to ask me anything you'd like. Thanks!


John

Time Link to 00:22:17

Hi asdrubale -

Thanks for the comment, and for checking out the video as well! So I can answer your question a bit better, can you give me the timestamp for the AA35r hand you mentioned? Thanks again!

JB

to be clear, I know that we have more equity with the KK hand; but in both cases we need to hit perfect-perfect to valuebet the river confidently; and in both cases check-calling the river will be very gross on most board runouts. I feel like betting twice and then check folding is so bad because that plays right into the average loose player's strategy of getting to later streets with a very wide range and betting whenever you check to them.

Time Link to 00:23:22

uh Im having trouble trying to post the timestamp, hopefully it shows up this time

Time Link to 00:06:47

can you address the bet-sizing in this hand particularly on the turn barrel? like why betting less than 1/2 pot is good.

does it change much if we c/r smaller on the flop? like 19 and lead 20 into 44 on turn.

are we shipping most rivers if we get flatted on the turn?

Time Link to 00:22:45

Hi KK,

I have been learning PLO over last month or so and been playing 20bb-50bb games on stars.
I have been buying in for 20bb then running up as many tables as possible - i.e. not ratholing.
I was wondering with the isolation with AA35 badugied - that you dont like the isolation OOP....with 100bb stack. At what stack size would you like isolation/c-bet get it in any flop? And at what point would you not like it anymore.

Thanks for the vid.

Really good video guys.

John, you mentioned talking more about Kai's note taking, but you guys didn't get to it in this vid. It made me pay more attention to his notes and how he was actively and continually checking them, looking at hands he didn't play that went to showdown and taking notes on them, revisiting hands to take notes and so on.

Is there anything specific you wanted to say about the note taking in this video? If not maybe you guys get to it in part 2.

Again, really good vid and hope we get to see part 2 soon.

Really good video guys.

John, you mentioned talking more about Kai's note taking, but you guys didn't get to it in this vid.

Is there anything specific you wanted to say about the note taking in this video? If not maybe you guys get to it in part 2.

Again, really good vid and hope we get to see part 2 soon.

Yeah I def agree and was really interested in this.

Hey,

Keep em coming :-)

Cheers

Really good video guys.

John, you mentioned talking more about Kai's note taking, but you guys didn't get to it in this vid. It made me pay more attention to his notes and how he was actively and continually checking them, looking at hands he didn't play that went to showdown and taking notes on them, revisiting hands to take notes and so on.

Is there anything specific you wanted to say about the note taking in this video? If not maybe you guys get to it in part 2.

Again, really good vid and hope we get to see part 2 soon.

Yeah I def agree and was really interested in this.

Hey Guys -

Hopefully this is in the direction of what you're looking for:

http://www.deucescracked.com/blogs/kasinokrime/24281-Note-Taking-Tips

If there's anything else you want to know about note taking, post it here or in the blog and I'll answer it. Thanks!


John


PS - Sorry I haven't had time to answer the questions from the video yet, I'll definitely get at 'em later today.

Time Link to 00:13:45

If you guys flop less strongly - like a bare FD + bottom pair - do you think shipping is better? You've still got good equity when he calls but the FE in that spot seems to be worthwhile for jamming.

Rob

to be clear, I know that we have more equity with the KK hand; but in both cases we need to hit perfect-perfect to valuebet the river confidently; and in both cases check-calling the river will be very gross on most board runouts. I feel like betting twice and then check folding is so bad because that plays right into the average loose player's strategy of getting to later streets with a very wide range and betting whenever you check to them.

Hi asdrubale -

Good points, but I want to mention several things:

Board texture here is a big consideration. You mentioned that we have more equity with the KK67ss hand, but you also said we still need to hit "perfect perfect" to comfortably value bet the river. By my count, there's many turns that we can continue to bet profitably. Namely, any spade, K, or 5 are turns that we pick up equity on and can comfortably continue aggression on (14 cards). Additionally, consider the turns we can continue to barrel that don't immediately improve us. I'm definitely barreling any broadway, and probably b/f'ing any board pairing card other than the J as well. This gives us over 20 cards we can continue to bet on the turn, and as I mentioned since his range is so wide, he'll probably be giving up on the turn a reasonable amount, so if we're going to bet we should make it bigger both to make him fold his equity, and to pick up more dead money when we bet the turn.

With the board on the AA35r hand we had far less equity against a calling range, and the board was much wetter. Also, the number of turns that we'll be able to profitably continue aggression on are much fewer. Additionally I mentioned that I didn't like isolating the limper with a hand that's so polarized post-flop, so where the big mistake was made there was pre-flop. In the KK67ss hand we had already opened and gotten two callers, so with the initiative on a dry board against two players with very wide calling ranges both pre and post, it makes a lot more sense to bet and get the pot HU going into the turn. Our other option would be to just c/f the flop, but given the board texture and the opponents in the hand, I think it's more profitable to just c-bet and take it down on the flop or barrel the turn rather than check/giving up.

Hopefully this helps. Let me know if you want me to clarify anything.

John

can you address the bet-sizing in this hand particularly on the turn barrel? like why betting less than 1/2 pot is good.

does it change much if we c/r smaller on the flop? like 19 and lead 20 into 44 on turn.

are we shipping most rivers if we get flatted on the turn?

Hi Steve -

Thanks for the questions. Where the mistake was made was on the flop c/r'ing size (like you mentioned). c/r'ing to 18 or 19 accomplishes the same as to 24, and gives us more room to barrel the turn and river if necessary. If we make it 18 on the flop, there's an SPR of ~2 on the turn, which is a SIGNIFICANT difference compared to what we ended up with (~1.4). Since we took an 8 out of his range on the flop, I'd continue to barrel pretty much all non-diamond rivers. If we make the straight then I'm shipping for value, since missed FD's generally won't bet the riv, and I think he'll almost always fold naked FD's anyway, so he'd just check back his OP and we don't want to let him do that.

I think Kai bet half pot on the turn because he wanted to have enough to fire a river, but given what we just talked about I think you can see why his c/r'ing sizing on the flop was a mistake. Kind of unfortunate I missed that in the video but thanks for bringing it up. Let me know if you have any other questions.


John

If you guys flop less strongly - like a bare FD + bottom pair - do you think shipping is better? You've still got good equity when he calls but the FE in that spot seems to be worthwhile for jamming.

Rob

Hi Rob -

Thanks for checking out the vid. Yep, shipping is better, mainly because of what you said, but also if we just peel, we lose money when he c/f's scare cards, or a good card for him comes that improves his equity and forces him to stack off when our equity is lessened (middle card pairing for example when he has OP that kills our 2pr outs). Hopefully this answers your question.


John

Hi KK,

I have been learning PLO over last month or so and been playing 20bb-50bb games on stars.
I have been buying in for 20bb then running up as many tables as possible - i.e. not ratholing.
I was wondering with the isolation with AA35 badugied - that you dont like the isolation OOP....with 100bb stack. At what stack size would you like isolation/c-bet get it in any flop? And at what point would you not like it anymore.

Thanks for the vid.

Hi DTD -

There's too many situations to expand upon here, but I'll give you some general guidelines to follow for most stack depths:

With your weakest aces, you'll want to commit 40% or more of your stack pre-flop to make it profitable to ship any flop.

With medium strength aces, you can get away with 30-35% of your stack pre-flop and shipping any flop.

Premium, committing ~25% of your stack will be profitable for you.

This should obviously depend mainly on how MW the pot is going to be, or how fit/foldy your opponents are in 3b pots. The more fit/foldy Villains are, the wider you can 3b and cbet against them etc.

Hopefully this helps.


John

Hi asdrubale -

Good points, but I want to mention several things:

Board texture here is a big consideration. You mentioned that we have more equity with the KK67ss hand, but you also said we still need to hit "perfect perfect" to comfortably value bet the river. By my count, there's many turns that we can continue to bet profitably. Namely, any spade, K, or 5 are turns that we pick up equity on and can comfortably continue aggression on (14 cards). Additionally, consider the turns we can continue to barrel that don't immediately improve us. I'm definitely barreling any broadway, and probably b/f'ing any board pairing card other than the J as well. This gives us over 20 cards we can continue to bet on the turn, and as I mentioned since his range is so wide, he'll probably be giving up on the turn a reasonable amount, so if we're going to bet we should make it bigger both to make him fold his equity, and to pick up more dead money when we bet the turn.

Thanks for your answer. Say we turn one of the profitable barrel cards, bet, and by the river we have a lonely pair of kings (which is what will happen most of the time). Do you feel ok check/folding? as in, do you think the times villlain will fold the turn + the times we get there make up for the times we are giving money away when he calls twice with all sorts of crap and bets his whole range on the river?

John + Kai! Excellent,loving it so far

Thanks for your answer. Say we turn one of the profitable barrel cards, bet, and by the river we have a lonely pair of kings (which is what will happen most of the time). Do you feel ok check/folding? as in, do you think the times villlain will fold the turn + the times we get there make up for the times we are giving money away when he calls twice with all sorts of crap and bets his whole range on the river?

Depends entirely on what the river card is, and yes against the villain in this video I would be comfortable c/f'ing. And yes, I'm confident the times we get there + the times he folds the turn make up for the times we have to bet/bet/check-fold.

Hope this helps.

John

John + Kai! Excellent,loving it so far

^_^

Time Link to 00:11:04

How is flatting a 4bet here ever profitable? I must be missing something. Isnt he jamming TONS of flops and the times you call you're usually behind. You have no idea if your FD's are good and you dont know his side cards. What kind of hands are you folding ip to a 4bet? Just KKxx?

Just watched this for the second time, really nice vid - you mentioned at the end of the video that there will be a part two, eagerly looking forward to it! (hint, hint )

Time Link to 00:12:58

Calling the preflop 4bet here, assuming an automatic shove is actually -EV, even knowing that the villian has aces.

I've calculated, exactly how unprofitable it is, and we are losing $32.89 every time we call his 4bet and play PERFECTLY on the flop. Villian simply isn't deep enough, and our hand is way too poor to be making this play.

If you guys flop less strongly - like a bare FD + bottom pair - do you think shipping is better? You've still got good equity when he calls but the FE in that spot seems to be worthwhile for jamming.

Rob

Easy shove here, this is where we make our money. When we are on the flop we are getting 28% pot odds, since flush draws run at about 33%, added with a two pair draw, and maybe straight draws to boot we are probably around 50-60% equity.

I would personally shove any (not nut)hand when he checks to me, if hes not going to lead out with aces there, he may just fold to any bet. Even if I have 10-20% equity OTF, i have enough fold equity, based on villians check, to shove there

Great video - Any idea when part 2 will be available?

Great video - Any idea when part 2 will be available?

+1