dvv15
199 posts
Joined 10/2008
great first video, i really liked it a lot!
You mentioned that because of your pf raise size your are also able to 4bet bluff smaller so do think your 4bets get called more often? (i.e. he 3bet to 9BB and you make it 20BB) I really hate when this happens or do people still play raise/fold against this 4bet size (assuming 100BB standard stacks)?
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xoxoxo
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xoxoxo
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halvadron
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QuadDeuces
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ohjoy
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besthand17
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Time Link to 00:00:36
In the 88 hand on table 2, on the turn you said if the villain leads out you are definitely calling. You have almost no hands on him, I was just wondering your reasoning, because you didn't really good too much into it. It is interesting to me because this is a standard check flop, fold turn bet at 50NL for me.
Idk y time link isn't working but its at like 8:30...
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HotDiggy1121
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DoNkey
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Solid first video. Very surprised at your opening ranges but that makes for more interesting watching. I think there was enough little nuggets there to consider so well done.
I love the idea for your themed video next time. I think we have had to many general play FR vids of late.
Again congrats.
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NLFool
265 posts
Joined 11/2008
great first video, i really liked it a lot!
You mentioned that because of your pf raise size your are also able to 4bet bluff smaller so do think your 4bets get called more often? (i.e. he 3bet to 9BB and you make it 20BB) I really hate when this happens or do people still play raise/fold against this 4bet size (assuming 100BB standard stacks)?
I think for the most part people react exactly the same to a 4 bet of 20x-22x compared to a 4 bet of 27x. Their 5 bet shoving range isn't going to change at all because they will be shoving the top of their range anyways regardless of what I make it and at the same time it atill looks like they have fold equity if they 5 bet shove as a bluff if I make it 27x or 20x.
Once in a while my 4 bet may get called a little light because it's a little smaller then normal but that might happen 1 time out of 20. I think 99% of the time I have just as much fold equity when I make a smaller 4 bet compared to a larger one.
The fact that I'm not 4 bet bluffing people who don't fold to 4 bets helps a lot as well. You don't 4 bet bluff someone who doesn't fold to 4 bets for the same reason you don't 3 bet bluff someone who doesn't fold to 3 bets.
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NLFool
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whats the correct 3bet size oop and ip if somebody either 2x or 2.5x ?
It depends somewhat on stack sizes and how often villain folds to 3 bets.
There isn't a magical number, it's more along the lines of don't 3 bet to big or 3 bet to small.
It's ridculous the # of times that I have had a reg 3 bet my 2.5 or 2x open to 12-14x which is to high when 8-10x would accomplish the same thing. On the flip side, I've been 3 bet just as often to 6x when I open to 2x or 2.5x which is to small with 100bb stacks.
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NLFool
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good video but pretty generell and no tough spots. would be greate if you can make a video playing the deep and ante tables.
Not much I can do about the spots in the video, I can only work with the hands that came up unless you guys want to see a 4 hour video.
As far as deep tables or ante tables, I don't play them and have no plans to in the future.
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NLFool
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NLFool
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Are there downsides to opening so wide UTG? Surely regs with thousands of hands on you know you open really wide UTG.
There are a couple of downsides to opening so small but the positives more then make up for them.
When opening smaller the pot size on the flop isn't as big as it would be if I were to open to 3-4x so I lose some value when I raise with AA and make it 2-2.5x however since 85% of my opening range isn't JJ+ or AK, that really isn't a big issue. Post flop I can manipulate the betting sizes to make up for the smaller pre-flop raise size when I hit a large hand
Players will also be more willing to call with speculative type hands vs me however I really don't see that as a big issue, I'm very comfortable playing postflop out of position with initiative
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Freudian
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I liked the video, primarily because you played pretty straightforward. I sometimes notice a tendency to overdo double and triple barrels in videos but here even though there was some marginal spots to do so you avoided it.
Preflop betsizing is probably more suited for NL200 than NL25-NL50. Down there you can have 4x as a standard and 3x for steals because you get threebet less.
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NLFool
265 posts
Joined 11/2008
lol @ canadian accent.
as a 6max player learning to roll with the nits, explain your preflop raise sizing? it seems very small.
I'm a very laggy player and my VPIP, fluctuates between 20-26 depending on the # of tables I'm playing and the table dynamics. This PFR sizing is not necessary if your a 14/10 type player. If your playing a nitty or TAG style your better off to go with 3-4x because your hand strength in general will be much better then mine. I do think that anything more then 3x on the button or cutoff is a mistake in my opinion regarless of your stats.
Benefits:
Lose less when 3 bet
Better implied odds when I want to play in a 3 bet pot
Able to open a wider range
When stealing it intices players in the blinds to call with marginal hands out of position without initiative more often, which isn't an issue because I can take down a lot of pots postflop whith correctly applied aggression. Who here really wants to play a big pot with A3 on a A78K2 board Out of position when I fire 3 barrels and force you to play in a big pot with a marginal hand?
Cons:
Lose a little value when I raise preflop with the top of my range
Players will call speculative hands vs me more often.
there are more pros/cons but thats a general idea
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NLFool
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In the 88 hand on table 2, on the turn you said if the villain leads out you are definitely calling. You have almost no hands on him, I was just wondering your reasoning, because you didn't really good too much into it. It is interesting to me because this is a standard check flop, fold turn bet at 50NL for me.
Idk y time link isn't working but its at like 8:30...
Sometimes the way to get the most value from a hand and the easist way to play it are 2 completely different things.
If your only going to cbet hands that hit you or hands that you have good equity with and check fold hands that are marginal or weak you become very exploitable. I am just as likely to check this flop back with AJ on a J10x board vs some opponents if I don't think I can get 3 streets of value. Doing this allows the villain to bet into me on the turn with worse hands or air when he normally would check fold them on the flop. It also allows me to get 2 streets of value where a lot of the times I normally would only get one or none if villain held a hand like 10A on this flop and I held AJ, because if I held a J, why wouldn't I bet it? Obviously vs the fish I am going for 3 streets of value with AJ on a J10x board
If I'm checking back this flop it's with the intention of calling a c-bet on 90% of turns because when I check back the flop, I am going to induce bluffs from opponents a fair % of the time.
In the video I didn't explain myself properly. The only cards I would consider folding to on the turn are an A, K or Q and the A fell in this hand. If villain led into me on this turn I am folding here a vast majority of the time.
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NLFool
265 posts
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Hi NLFool. I'm watching the vid now and it's great so far. Maybe this is a rookie question, but why is this such a terrible CBET? (@ 5:52 on table 4)
http://www.deucescracked.com/videos/2051-NLFool-1-200NL-6-tabling?seek=352
Aren't you ahead of much of their range there? and you may get called by a worse Ax or flush draw? It's also possible that the flop missed them completely and you can just take it down there - like you did.
Thanks in advance.
There are a multitide of reasons why this board is a bad board to c-bet on, the main reason being that the board can get very nasty for me. You have to think ahead to future streets and evaluate all the possible scenarios that can occur before you make the decision to c-bet or not. C-betting because you are ahead of their range is not enough of a reason to cbet.
Before you make a decision to c-bet this flop you need to know what your plan is on the turn and if possible the river ahead of time. If your not thinking at least 1 street ahead your not thinking the hand thru well enough.
Reasons to not c-bet this flop:
- This board can get very ugly very quickly. 18 cards can fall on the turn that put me in a bad spot,any diamond, 3, 6 or A.
-Villains are unknowns, I have no idea as to their post flop tendencies, are they fit or fold or are they peeling any 2?
- I think I have very little fold equity vs 2 opponents on this board texture. I expect their calling or checkraising range to be greater then their folding range
-I am out of position vs one of the opponents.
-I am not betting for value, I am betting as a bluff or semi-bluff and I am out of position vs one of the opponents
- this is a flop that I would expect to get checkraised on with a larger then normal frequency if my opponents are aggresive.
-what do I do if I am called and the board blanks and I miss? How do I react to that when I'm unsure if my opponents are calling with Overcards Overpairs, Draws, slowplayed nut hands, combo draws etc? Do I fire a 2nd barrel hoping that they are on a draw, and then again hope that they fold to a 2nd barrel? Do I again fire a 3rd barrel on the river when the board bricks hoping to fold out that stubborn 99 hand?
-what do I do if an A falls or a 3? What about a Q of diamonds? Do I check behind the turn for pot control or do I value bet? If I check the turn behind for pot control and then get led into on the river are they bluffing their missed draw because its obvious I checked behind for pot control or are they betting their better hands?
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ohjoy
432 posts
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I'm a very laggy player and my VPIP, fluctuates between 20-26 depending on the # of tables I'm playing and the table dynamics. This PFR sizing is not necessary if your a 14/10 type player. If your playing a nitty or TAG style your better off to go with 3-4x because your hand strength in general will be much better then mine. I do think that anything more then 3x on the button or cutoff is a mistake in my opinion regarless of your stats.
Benefits:
Lose less when 3 bet
Better implied odds when I want to play in a 3 bet pot
Able to open a wider range
When stealing it intices players in the blinds to call with marginal hands out of position without initiative more often, which isn't an issue because I can take down a lot of pots postflop whith correctly applied aggression. Who here really wants to play a big pot with A3 on a A78K2 board Out of position when I fire 3 barrels and force you to play in a big pot with a marginal hand?
Cons:
Lose a little value when I raise preflop with the top of my range
Players will call speculative hands vs me more often.
there are more pros/cons but thats a general idea
would you change this strategy vs tougher lineups? i saw you open like 2,5x from the hijack or mpwhateverisbeforethat and it seems like it could become a pretty shitty spot for you if you have a good player, or several good players, behind you etc?
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NLFool
265 posts
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would you change this strategy vs tougher lineups? i saw you open like 2,5x from the hijack or mpwhateverisbeforethat and it seems like it could become a pretty shitty spot for you if you have a good player, or several good players, behind you etc?
I don't alter my bet size but if there are good regs behind me or regs that like to 3 bet a lot I will tighten up my range
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QuadDeuces
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NLFool
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What type of tables do you table select for: tight ones so as to use your LAG style to steal?
About the only table selection critria I use is to not have the 20-30 BB short stacks to my immediate left. If theres a super fish somewhere I put my name on the waiting list and join that table when its available and replace it with one of my other tables. Other then that I sit down at the 1st tables I can
Once you hit 400NL+ you will spend the vast majority of the time playing against regs.
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QuadDeuces
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KritiKal
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stumblehere
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NLFool
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NLFool
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Great vid! W/6 talbes hard to see player stats, but trade-off is more interesting spots...I'd like to know what your ranges are for the stats you use...possible to get your HUD display for Poker Stars.
Thanks.
pm me if you want it
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DanhBai
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Wordhappy
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Time Link to 00:06:19
you stated that w/ this board texture and two players in the pot that this was a bad board to cbet. Do you feel this way because your perceived range is wider then most nit FR players? I would assume you are cbetting AA-88 and semi bluffs like AKd,KQd. So, is it that wrong to have air in your range at times? Especially at the start of the session when you can take advantage of your perceived range.
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Wordhappy
89 posts
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you stated that w/ this board texture and two players in the pot that this was a bad board to cbet. Do you feel this way because your perceived range is wider then most nit FR players? I would assume you are cbetting AA-88 and semi bluffs like AKd,KQd. So, is it that wrong to have air in your range at times? Especially at the start of the session when you can take advantage of your perceived range.
**** Ignore this. I just saw your previous response****
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jasons0147
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NLFool
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unclejim
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Hey NLFOOL I really love your HUD. Would it be possible for you to provide the exact parameters for the colors for each of your 13 categories. That would be awesome, or are these automatically configured within holdem manager? If that's asking too much no worries. Great video!!
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NLFool
265 posts
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Hey NLFOOL I really love your HUD. Would it be possible for you to provide the exact parameters for the colors for each of your 13 categories. That would be awesome, or are these automatically configured within holdem manager? If that's asking too much no worries. Great video!!
Thats a lot to type out, theres 14 different categories and 5 different colours for each stat.
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bernie madof
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Stipok
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You seem like a good addition to DeucesCracked!
I think that you should make a video in the Hold'em Manager Replayer where you review hands that you opened in early and middle position that aren't in a standard TAG's range.
For instance, you said that QTs is a standard open for you UTG. For most 15/12 etc. type of "standard TAG" players it is not.
It would be interesting to see a bunch of hands like that and hear your comments on how to play them out of position post flop when facing resistance.
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Ice
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