Episode Two
Episode Two
Oink moves up to $10/20 and talks about dealing with the increased aggression at those stakes, how he changes his preflop play for a different blind structure, and what to do when your opponents play back at you aggressively.
This Series: My Danish Luckbox
DeucesCracked coach Oink gets his own series to soul-crush, luckbox, and otherwise LAG-ify mid stakes limit hold’em. Oink will show you the differences between the “standard TAG” and the Danish “LAGTAG” assassin.
Comments for Episode Two
Early on with A9o from the SB, i really hate the bet on the river, i really dont see the value in the bet because theres really not alot of worse hands that will call, however there will be a lot of worse hands that will bluff sometimes when checked to. Also after 23ish minutes i dont think you have a Vbet with 77 as you implied yourself, simply because the player doesnt seem willing to call with AQ/AJ often enough, but i believe he will always call with JJ/QQ. However it might be good for metagame reasons if you bet and he calls with JJ/QQ, meaning that you could get in some thin Vbets later vs his ace highs etc.
Also, i think opening K8o from the hijack is way too loose even when you have a very tight player behind, you also have a 77/0 player behind you, and a small blind that will call a lot, giving the BB great pot odds to complete, and you find yourself in a 4way pot with K8o, which obv isn`t that great.
Wow so many interesting spots! Better than the first episode IMO where the action was kind of dry. I'm going to watch this again taking some notes.
The Ah2h was pretty awesome!
In hindsight do u think u bet too aggresively aganst Andres754 (that 72% guy on the far right)? He seemed to trap always. Of course he was hitting pretty hard.
For me the most interesting, besides pf, are all the bet/check turn decisions.
Anyway I come back with more specific comments later :)!
You said people will 3-bet you more often if you are playing laggy. Do you think also they are bluffing or playing back on you more often postflop?
19.00: The K6o hand: Exactly why are you betting this turn? People are not peeling light on monotone boards so he either has a pair or a flush draw. You might get him of a flush draw but you are going to need 2 barrels for that. Why not save that bet and give up, maybe call the river if you improve?
Hey guys
Thanks for the comments as usual and also my usual apologies for the late response but I tend to be wasted friday through saturday.
@ Psycho
The A9 hand I regretted. There is a ton of missed draws in his range that I might get a bet from even tho he is rather passive. So yeah I agree with you completely.
Abot the 77 hand: The results oriented answer is that I didnt have a valuebet since he folded. However in rational hindsight I think the bet is close but ok. I know I mentrion he might have JJ-QQ but those need discounting since most TAGs in those games tend to fire away there - which I find to be the correct play btw. So yeah his range is JJ, QQ, maybe 88, AQ, AJ maybet ATs. But as said when he checks I would discount 88, JJ, QQ, ATs quite a bit. However as it turned out he folded so my assumption that he calls with AJ/AQ was def wrong.
About K8o: Well its loose. Lets agree on that. I dont find it too loose even tho the bad player will call a lot OTB and give good odds to the blinds. The good news that you dont mention is that I have a ton of bad players behind me. This is where good LAGTAGs and LAGs know to add hands compared to a more normal range. Also since KTo is mostly an accepted opener in the HJ I doubt K8o is "way too loose". Get your ass in pots with bad players! ;)
@ Sushi
I couldnt find the Ah2h hand. When you have more comments could you give me the time where I played it?
@ Frufru
Yes! Definetely. So you also have to adjust postflop by playing back again with air or draws when you get c/r on the flop and off course by folding a lot less.
@ Willem
I disagree that his flop peel range is confined to pairs + fd's. With the info at that point regarding that player we cant exclude straight draws without a fd.
The decision on the turn is between b/f'ing and checking behind to call a river bet on non club rivers. We still have a lot of SD value against his range so we need to decide how we want to show down.
- If we check and he bets a club river we will be folding the best hand when he bluffs a busted straight draw
- If we bet and he raises we will be giving up equity since his range wont have us drawing dead.
- We do not know how often he will bluff. If we knew he wouldnt bluff then we need to bet turn. If we knew he would bluff his busted draws 100% then checking turn gets a lot better.
With the info at hand I am fine with my decision on betting but I find it close - as long as we show down a lot.
I want to play pots with bad players, but im loving K10o here instead of K8, partially because K10 obv can make more str8s, but also because K10 dominates alot more hands that he`s coldcalling with. But if you say its not that bad, im just offering my opinion and experience, obv the latter you have just as much of, so who`s to judge. One thing though, why do you prefer to 3bet from the BB with a wider range instead of having a wider checkraising range on flops? Is it`s sole purpose to fold out better hands that completely wiff/hands that peel one on the flop and then give up? How true is this according to limits? I just feel that when you 3bet alot preflop its going to be harder to eventually push people off very maginal holdings, and youre putting money in the pot OOP with a very wide range.
Psycho
Yeah KT is better than K8o. LDO :) My point was that if we can agree that KTo is +EV then I doubt K8o is that much -EV. Also, and obviously, I aint playing 100%. The conditions in that spot were good due to the amount of bad players behind me.
BTW I expect it to be slightly -EV. But overall +EV due to the metagame effects from having high VPIP/PFR numbers. I also wouldnt play K7o so I am certainly not sure its a +EV play even with the metagame effects. I just like to err on the loose side in stead of erring on the tight side
About 3-betting in the BB.
Due I advocate doing it a lot HU? Because I sure hope not as that is not my view on things. Or are you referring to 3-way pots? Because in those spots I want to 3-bet more than most.
So you like it 3way and not at all as much in HU-spots? Just seem to remember a spot in the vid where u 3bet a button raise with 89s from the bb and check-folded the turn with 3 highcards after he called the flop, and it seems that this could become a regular problem if you start 3betting wide from the bb. But i have to say i kind of like your idea there about 3betting SC`s when theres a CC in between. And btw, what does LDO mean?:p
LDO = LOL, duuh, obviously. 2p2 slang I suppose
Errhm ok yeah I will 3-bet 98s and JTs and other stuff HU in the BB. But certainly not always. I will mostly do it vs players who gives more respect to a PF 3-bet than a flop c/r.
But overall I dont 3-bet in the BB a lot HU. I do get out of line 3-way tho.
I have been experimenting with this preflop style at $2/$4 and $3/$6 and I think it's indeed much more profitable than the standard TAG style, even with the higher rake. I don't have a big enough sample size at these limits (and never will have) but playing like this does give you lots of opportunities to outplay your opponents. Of course, very good postflop skills are absolutely essential.
It's probably slightly too loose for $30/$60 and higher. Good opponents will not play straightforward postflop, they won't give you excessive action because you are a big LAG, and they don't fold too much. But many opponents there are almost as loose and aggressive as you are. (I suspect Hoss is even more LAG preflop)
Well it depends on villains.
Overall at an average online 2/4 and 3/6 table at say stars with their rake schedule I agree. My guesstimate of the optimal style there would be between 28/20 and 35/25, depending on the exact game
I am almost 100% sure that 25/18 is suboptimal in any game but as you point out if you do not have the sufficient postflop skills then playing tighter is the answer. (As a curiousity to that statement i would venture that at 30/60+ you cant make 25/18 an optimal style unless you have extremely god postflop skills and know how to take advantage of your "to tight" image)
I also agree that at 30/60+ the 40/30 style gets tougher to implement. This is a result of the increased amount of really tough LAGTAGs who dont play straightforward and who knows how to crush your wide ranges. At 30/60+ my guesstimate will be that between 33/23 and 38/27 is optimal depending on the exact game.
Plz note that whenever I quote stats like these I am assuming its filtered for play with 5-6 players at the table AND NOT OVERALL STATS INCLUDING HU AND 3-WAY PLAY!
Also plz note that this series is a suggestion to how you can implement a 40/30 style. I do not necessarily play this style myself altho I would in a lot of games. In later episodes at 20/40 and maybe 30/60 I will be tightening up due to the increased number of tough opponents
Hi very nice video! Here are the comments I made through the video:
8:13 I don't like that turn call with A2 in a 8TK2 when an opponent bets into a big field and you get only 5:1. I think you have to fold.
23:00 you decide to value bet 77 in the river in a 9TK8T board. You say that his range have some AQ and AJ in it, but I think he is rarely calling with them. It's an absolutely terrible board for him to call with a-high. I prefer a check behind.
50:48 you had A7 in a JTQ8 board when an opponent peels the flop and you decide to bet the turn. I'm not sure at all about that.
54:20 you raise the turn with QJ against a turn donk, in a 98QJ board. I don't like it very much i prefer to call down. Maybe I like it if you think he is not going to 3bet you with Tx, but if he is 3betting Tx then I think a call is much better.
56:04 I prefer to call the river with K6o in the 63J58 board against a tight player who 3bet you preflop. don't like folding too much
58:23 You bet the turn with position with Q8 in a JJJJ board against a fish?? Do you think he is going to fold a K? Pay you with T-high? I don't like it at all. He MAY fold a queen but that's not the most probable result of the hand and the pot is small.
Thanks!
