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Poker Video: No Limit Hold'Em by WiltOnTilt (Micro/Small Stakes)

oh wowowo cant wait to watch this! guest hosts FTW!

Woo! Have been waiting for this one!

Sweeet finally!!! I had to go to wal-mart just so that time would go by faster waiting for this thing!!!

Sorry about the delay, it looks like our server had been having some issues (I'm sure some of you saw an error here or there) and I had to fix it before the video would publish.

Rob

The MP4 link doesn't work for me.

Sorry about the delay, it looks like our server had been having some issues (I'm sure some of you saw an error here or there) and I had to fix it before the video would publish.

Rob

no prob. as long as i get it, that's all that counts. Just thought I'd let u know that I wasn't able to download the mp4 version of this video. it gave me an error.

thanks

MP4 errors are fixed.

This guy runs terrible.

nice, thanxx
You touched a bit on 2nd barreling, but still im not sure what's important to consider..
You say that you want villain's range to hvea missed the board on the flop/turn to a high percentage which is the case against most 50NL donks (who seem to auto-call most cbets).
So on the on hand villain doesn't have a hand most of the time ont he turn (i dare to say that my A high is good in most cases), but on the other hand they often call a turn bet as well, which i dont want (whcih seems paradox to me, because i dont want to build a bigger pot w/ A high, but are ahead most times; so what do you do OOP? Bet, to prevent him from taking the lead, or just c/f the best hand..
What do you do IP? I don't want to check behind my A high, because in most cases it's still the best hand, so i dont want to give him a chance to draw out on me and to bluff me on the river..; Should i 2nd barrel here?)
Like to hear some comments.
-thanks

First off I wanna say I really like wilt's videos and the series thus far, even if I did disagree with some things in this video. I actually ended up writing a lot about it as I was watching it, so I put it in wordpad and then on pastebin.

If you scroll down you can copy and paste the text from the bottom window into notepad so it's easier to read.

http://pastebin.com/f31e3f598

Oh jesus, I feel sorry for you. You're due for a super run

Ok, looked the vid now the second time and some questions came up. Like to hear your comments on that:

~21: You chek behind w/ A7 as the pfr on 526rb against a 35/10 guy. I guess his most likely cards are broadways, pp and BIGGER suited connectors which all miss the board. Isn't this a great spot to cbet to prevent him from drawing out on us with his 7To? And why dont we 2nd barrel the Q, which should create just more fold equity?

~42:30: You hold QTo on AQ6tt against a 18/9 guy and decide to check behind. Do i misunderstand sth. or is the only reason for checking behind that you want to induce a steal attempt from him? I mean, sure you get only called by stronger hands; so actually you want to protect your hand (because if you gonna call a bet later, you could as well bet out yourself w/ the advantage that you're protecting your hand) in case he holds a gutshot or fd, but you think you finally get more by giving him a chance to make stab at the pot, right?

~49:30: Here you hold 99 on a AT7tt board vs. a 13/4 nit. You say that firing one barrel on the flop is fine. I don't get your point.. With 13/4 he is more on the passive side, so imo the vast majority of his range are in fact Aces; Futher it's unlikely that he'll bluff you out on a A high board, since he's threatened of the ace. What's the idea behind continuation betting here?

~55:20: Flop comes KKK and you decide not to bluff raise villain's cbet w/ QJo, which is OK against a 9/5 nit who won't believe your raise.
Under what circumstances would you raise here? I mean it's so obvious that you missed the board that you can bluff raise under rare circumstances. What are these? Would you mind giving some examples?

~56:10: You have TT w/ a pfr in front of you. You like to call here, which is imo not the best play?? TT is a very strong hand and we often face AK/AQ or worse hands in a HU pot. By raising we achieve axactly this. Getting HU w/ a hand that's most likely the best hand. Further we gain initiative and even have the possibility of taking the pot down preflop. Why do you want to play a multiway pot and risking overcards which are much more likely to his s.b.? Imo the factors for raising outweigh the ones for calling by far?...
Hoping you elaborate a bit on that.

That's it so far. Thank you very much in advance : )

EXPLOITABILITY LEFT AND RIGHT!

jk obv, this is a really good video, both aaron's and jared's analysis were very good and talking about 2 and 3 barrels and raising OOP with hands like A8o, QTo is something that I don't do that that I'll add into my game. Veryyy good video.

First off I wanna say I really like wilt's videos and the series thus far, even if I did disagree with some things in this video. I actually ended up writing a lot about it as I was watching it, so I put it in wordpad and then on pastebin.

If you scroll down you can copy and paste the text from the bottom window into notepad so it's easier to read.

http://pastebin.com/f31e3f598

Hi Guitarizt, Can you put the specific questions from you text on here. As it is difficult for Aaron to get the time to go through the whole post. Glad you like the series.

nice, thanxx
You touched a bit on 2nd barreling, but still im not sure what's important to consider..
You say that you want villain's range to hvea missed the board on the flop/turn to a high percentage which is the case against most 50NL donks (who seem to auto-call most cbets).
So on the on hand villain doesn't have a hand most of the time ont he turn (i dare to say that my A high is good in most cases), but on the other hand they often call a turn bet as well, which i dont want (whcih seems paradox to me, because i dont want to build a bigger pot w/ A high, but are ahead most times; so what do you do OOP? Bet, to prevent him from taking the lead, or just c/f the best hand..
What do you do IP? I don't want to check behind my A high, because in most cases it's still the best hand, so i dont want to give him a chance to draw out on me and to bluff me on the river..; Should i 2nd barrel here?)
Like to hear some comments.
-thanks

I think that it is a lot easier to double barrell in position, than out of position. I would tend to go towards check folding oop. As if you cbet oop on the turn, then check the river. You are very exploitable, as they are going to be betting most rivers.

You can't really answer the question about IP, with out a hand history, as it is very villan dependant. You need to asign the range of the villan, to your percieved range and go from there. But I do feel there is no point triple barrel bluff a donkey as he is rarely folding.

Been really enjoying this series so far, another good vid. jk3a was a good addition and asked some good questions/gave good analysis. Also Alex you're good at being a student which I have picked up some tips on for my sessions.

do you usually play more tables, alex?

do you usually play more tables, alex?

I play four, and data mine a few in the background. I strongly believe that it is not worth playing anymore than that, as you want to pick up players patterns. It is to difficult to make marginal decisions with more tables than that imo.

Ok, looked the vid now the second time and some questions came up. Like to hear your comments on that:

~21: You chek behind w/ A7 as the pfr on 526rb against a 35/10 guy. I guess his most likely cards are broadways, pp and BIGGER suited connectors which all miss the board. Isn't this a great spot to cbet to prevent him from drawing out on us with his 7To? And why dont we 2nd barrel the Q, which should create just more fold equity?

~42:30: You hold QTo on AQ6tt against a 18/9 guy and decide to check behind. Do i misunderstand sth. or is the only reason for checking behind that you want to induce a steal attempt from him? I mean, sure you get only called by stronger hands; so actually you want to protect your hand (because if you gonna call a bet later, you could as well bet out yourself w/ the advantage that you're protecting your hand) in case he holds a gutshot or fd, but you think you finally get more by giving him a chance to make stab at the pot, right?

~49:30: Here you hold 99 on a AT7tt board vs. a 13/4 nit. You say that firing one barrel on the flop is fine. I don't get your point.. With 13/4 he is more on the passive side, so imo the vast majority of his range are in fact Aces; Futher it's unlikely that he'll bluff you out on a A high board, since he's threatened of the ace. What's the idea behind continuation betting here?

~55:20: Flop comes KKK and you decide not to bluff raise villain's cbet w/ QJo, which is OK against a 9/5 nit who won't believe your raise.
Under what circumstances would you raise here? I mean it's so obvious that you missed the board that you can bluff raise under rare circumstances. What are these? Would you mind giving some examples?

~56:10: You have TT w/ a pfr in front of you. You like to call here, which is imo not the best play?? TT is a very strong hand and we often face AK/AQ or worse hands in a HU pot. By raising we achieve axactly this. Getting HU w/ a hand that's most likely the best hand. Further we gain initiative and even have the possibility of taking the pot down preflop. Why do you want to play a multiway pot and risking overcards which are much more likely to his s.b.? Imo the factors for raising outweigh the ones for calling by far?...
Hoping you elaborate a bit on that.

That's it so far. Thank you very much in advance : )

A7 - we did cbet and didn't 2 barrel because villain was very loose and shortstacked

QT - correct, inducing bluffs here is the only real way to get value. betting to protect is not really important given our hand and the board texture

99 - this is a value bet, we don't expect villain to fold better and he can certainly call with worse (all gutshots/flush draws, 7x) firing two there might not be horrible if he folds all non Ax hands on a blank, but given how tight he was, it's fair to say that too much of his range after calling the flop is Ax.

QJo - people don't fold fullhouses. I'm not sure I would every bluff raise this villain on that board given the action.

TT - 3betting tight utg raisers with TT is certainly suboptimal imo, the range that he continues with after we 3bet is MUCH stronger than the range he opens. Keeping the pot smaller increases our positional advantage as well and allows us to play our strong hand against a weaker range.

TT - 3betting tight utg raisers with TT is certainly suboptimal imo, the range that he continues with after we 3bet is MUCH stronger than the range he opens. Keeping the pot smaller increases our positional advantage as well and allows us to play our strong hand against a weaker range.

I see your points, but i still have to disagree w/ the TT hand.
Let him alone continue w/ AA-TT, Ak-AQ. This makes 32 combos for unpaired hands and 25 for the paired hands. Further you get all the advantages a raise has and you get the maximum out of your hand.

can you use the standard full tilt layout or something freaking normal? this garbage is so hard to look at. can you let him make the mistake then tell him why he did it wrong instead of telling him to raise here, fold here or ask him why he did that. Many times you told him what to do as if you were playing.
also are you teaching a standard tag way to play because the video from the new coach who had his video debut on sunday has a 50nl vid on 2p2 and he plays so aggressive and destroys the table

can you use the standard full tilt layout or something freaking normal? this garbage is so hard to look at. information was good though

Thank you for the feed back. What did you have difficulty with. I feel that his layout gives more space for the stats. I will have a play tonight to look at how I can change it. DRc13 has sent me his layout, so may try that out. Please can other people give me their views on it, as don't want to change it if it the members are happy with what we have? I would prefer it with out the Abbreviations for each stat, but helps for the video.

oh i just mean the table and background seems like there is a blurr, everyone else uses a normal layout in there videos for the most part

Question about the 3-betting:

I apparently must be playing on the wrong tables, but I always seem to end up on a PS table with a couple of villains who are habitual raisers in position, i.e., CO, Button, and sometimes Hijack (which I always notice because I'm usually one of the blinds). Now, usually I give them, the "3 strikes and you're out" rule: if they raise from one of these positions 3 times in a row, I 3-bet them regardless of what I have on the fourth time. Is this a bit too donkey-ish a play by me? Should it only be 2-strikes? Do you have any other suggestions/ideas for attempting to curb the relentless position bettors?

Another question (for the sake of argument):

In regard to raising UTG, would you modify your UTG raising range if you were at a table full of TAGs? By modify, I mean expand it significantly to include suited connectors and suited one-gaps all the way down to 5-7 and all pocket pairs since they would give you more credit for having a stronger hand than you actually do and thus be more wary of 3-betting you without a significantly strong hand themselves?

Question about the 3-betting:

I apparently must be playing on the wrong tables, but I always seem to end up on a PS table with a couple of villains who are habitual raisers in position, i.e., CO, Button, and sometimes Hijack (which I always notice because I'm usually one of the blinds). Now, usually I give them, the "3 strikes and you're out" rule: if they raise from one of these positions 3 times in a row, I 3-bet them regardless of what I have on the fourth time. Is this a bit too donkey-ish a play by me? Should it only be 2-strikes? Do you have any other suggestions/ideas for attempting to curb the relentless position bettors?

I think that you shouldn't be working on a strikes system. I look at their stats and work on the following. Here is my thought process.

1)PFR of 20%+, and high fold to 3bet% (70%+). I will be 3 betting these guys and betting at any flop.
2) The TAG when there numbers are close together say 20/17 etc, and have a high % to steal, plus 30%. I will be rr from the blinds, with strong hands and air. If the same player is a 20% steal, I am likely to give him a lot more respect as it looks like their range is more distributed across the positions.
3)I think that you need to also look at the fold to C-bet, as you are going to be firing pretty much all flops.
4) Another thing to consider is if they are constantly isolating a limper, then it is good to 3bet them, as they are likely to have a weak holding but want the 40/10/1 player to themshelves.
5) If they have a high WTSD and low Fold to C-bet then I don't want to get into a spot with them oop post flop. As it is high variance having to fire multiple streets against them.

I see your points, but i still have to disagree w/ the TT hand.
Let him alone continue w/ AA-TT, Ak-AQ. This makes 32 combos for unpaired hands and 25 for the paired hands. Further you get all the advantages a raise has and you get the maximum out of your hand.

You're more than welcome to disagree, however, you are incorrect and expressing false logic because we have to fold when villain 4bets, and he will 4bet a significant portion of the range you mentioned. This, and this alone can account for the increased profitability in flatting pf.

can you use the standard full tilt layout or something freaking normal? this garbage is so hard to look at. can you let him make the mistake then tell him why he did it wrong instead of telling him to raise here, fold here or ask him why he did that. Many times you told him what to do as if you were playing.
also are you teaching a standard tag way to play because the video from the new coach who had his video debut on sunday has a 50nl vid on 2p2 and he plays so aggressive and destroys the table

I think your complaint about playing style is unfair. I can personally attest that Aaron generally teaches a style that would make most people uncomfortable in terms of aggression. We really didn't get dealt many hands in this session.

also are you teaching a standard tag way to play

lol

Question about the 3-betting:

I apparently must be playing on the wrong tables, but I always seem to end up on a PS table with a couple of villains who are habitual raisers in position, i.e., CO, Button, and sometimes Hijack (which I always notice because I'm usually one of the blinds). Now, usually I give them, the "3 strikes and you're out" rule: if they raise from one of these positions 3 times in a row, I 3-bet them regardless of what I have on the fourth time. Is this a bit too donkey-ish a play by me? Should it only be 2-strikes? Do you have any other suggestions/ideas for attempting to curb the relentless position bettors?

Another question (for the sake of argument):

In regard to raising UTG, would you modify your UTG raising range if you were at a table full of TAGs? By modify, I mean expand it significantly to include suited connectors and suited one-gaps all the way down to 5-7 and all pocket pairs since they would give you more credit for having a stronger hand than you actually do and thus be more wary of 3-betting you without a significantly strong hand themselves?

Hi Fischie,

My personal preference is to modify my opening ranges not based on the "tags" or "lags" at the table, but more specifically targetting 2 stats of the players around me: their 3bet% and their fold to cbet%. If people are not 3betting me much and generally staying out of my way, i will be greatly opening my ranges from every position, including utg... however if we're getting into 3betting wars, then we need to tighten our opening standards and loosen our 4bet and/or calling standards.

I also don't really care for your 3-strikes strategy for when to start 3betting. I think we'd do much better by simply considering the factors of the situations such as his overall gameplan (vpip/pfr/steal%), our table position, our hand, and any recent table history (ex. did he lose a big pot recently? have we 3bet him recently? how does he view our game? etc) to determine the correct situations and frequency for a 3bet. I think arbitrarily choosing a number of instances to allow him to get away with stealing our blinds does not really give this complex situation the thought and consideration it deserves. To say it another way, there's more game dynamic at play here than simply the number of times he's raised from the button.

hope that helps and makes sense.

Aaron

p.s. I think Alex's reply to your question was also very good too.

Been really enjoying this series so far, another good vid. jk3a was a good addition and asked some good questions/gave good analysis. Also Alex you're good at being a student which I have picked up some tips on for my sessions.

Thanks for the kind words Biggy. I'm extremely pleased with Alex's dedication and work he's put in for this series and jk3a is an very talented player and poker mind, so having him sit in with us was very valuable.

Aaron

lol

I was comparing your play in the 50nl video to mdm13s plays in his 50nl and 100nl videos. everything in your video seemed standard raise fold if shown resistance, mdm was firing away 2 and 3 streets while giving a player a hand range and seemed to always be spot on while getting them to lay down hands when they were ahead and mdm would have nothing.

what i meant to say is that was this method shown on purpose or was it just not good situations to play that style. In his videos he plays like a 35/30 4 tabling

I was comparing your play in the 50nl video to mdm13s plays in his 50nl and 100nl videos. everything in your video seemed standard raise fold if shown resistance, mdm was firing away 2 and 3 streets while giving a player a hand range and seemed to always be spot on while getting them to lay down hands when they were ahead and mdm would have nothing.

what i meant to say is that was this method shown on purpose or was it just not good situations to play that style. In his videos he plays like a 35/30 4 tabling

The videos that we have published have not been a reflection on our coaching sessions; it is very difficult to get a dream video. Also there is no benefit in trying to shoe horn plays in spots that don’t fit the table’s dynamics. The changes that I feel have been made to my game, really comes around aggression, and loosening up a lot. For example, my stats have changed a bit from 19/16/2 to more of a 22/19/3 (we also run pretty card dead alot of the time). It is only a small difference, but has made a change to my game, my went to showdown is higher by about 3% and my win at showdown is the same. I will go after players a lot than I did be before, and will be happy stacking off light. So I am 3betting a lot more. It is difficult to quantify the changes, as so much subtle changes have happened and continue to happen. I think some people may feel that Aaron teaches some super secret method, but I feel it is all the 1% that make the difference (and there have been a lot), and Aaron’s ability to question the normal thought process is incredible. Also I feel that it takes a long time to implement changes to your game, as I am still uncomfortable in a number of spots. I don’t feel that there are many players that can play 35/30 and be a long term winner.

EDIT - I have watched mdm13s video on 2+2 and thought that it was very good. Really looking forward to watching his video on DC. It is a very difficult sytle to play, as you are putting yourself in a pile of marginal spots and have to have great hand reading skills. It has huge advantage as no one believes you when you have a big hand. I would love to play looser than I am, but need to take one step at a time.....

run better

Not that you can do anything about that - I've borrowed your quote - from TA? and have it on my desktop to remind me to just play well regardless.

I think this should be called slightly unconventional uNL grinding.
An espisode in teh hand replayer with value extraction where players like myself probably miss $$$ would be sweet

mdm13 plays like 2x as loose and aggro as most of our coaches; dont use him as a basis for comparison for what needs to be done in order to win in these games

mdm13 plays like 2x as loose and aggro as most of our coaches; dont use him as a basis for comparison for what needs to be done in order to win in these games

QFT (and this takes nothing away from what mdm13 does - he's exploiting the crap out of the tendencies of 100NL players)

also whoever was talking about the blurry table, this is probably just because aaron is recording via teamviewer, and the color depth is reduced to lower bandwidth. otherwise it would be way too laggy consider aaron is in the US and alex is in AUS.

Hi Fischie,

My personal preference is to modify my opening ranges not based on the "tags" or "lags" at the table, but more specifically targetting 2 stats of the players around me: their 3bet% and their fold to cbet%. If people are not 3betting me much and generally staying out of my way, i will be greatly opening my ranges from every position, including utg... however if we're getting into 3betting wars, then we need to tighten our opening standards and loosen our 4bet and/or calling standards.

I also don't really care for your 3-strikes strategy for when to start 3betting. I think we'd do much better by simply considering the factors of the situations such as his overall gameplan (vpip/pfr/steal%), our table position, our hand, and any recent table history (ex. did he lose a big pot recently? have we 3bet him recently? how does he view our game? etc) to determine the correct situations and frequency for a 3bet. I think arbitrarily choosing a number of instances to allow him to get away with stealing our blinds does not really give this complex situation the thought and consideration it deserves. To say it another way, there's more game dynamic at play here than simply the number of times he's raised from the button.

hope that helps and makes sense.

Aaron

p.s. I think Alex's reply to your question was also very good too.

Fair enough. I play a fair amount live too and I admit that I am extremely wary of basing too much of my playing style on stats alone.

4 Tables would've been better imo, it gets a bit boring when he's carddead.

4 Tables would've been better imo, it gets a bit boring when he's carddead.

Which is all the time!!!

Really? I don't even think 1 table is boring with the hero is card dead if the commentary and discussion is good for hands in which the hero is not involved.

Really? I don't even think 1 table is boring with the hero is card dead if the commentary and discussion is good for hands in which the hero is not involved.

agree...if you think listening to theory is boring then sorry but you better learn to love it if you want to be good!

I just watched this vid, I love the series,, but Alex you run soo bad, when I'm down on a downswing I should just watch this vid for a laugh that q10 and AJ hands OMG hahahaaha.. Alex if you like Sydney you should check out Gold Coast and lower QLD beaches as well, thanks guys,

Poe

I was dissappointed with the visual quality of this video as I found it very hard to make out a lot of the stats on the HUD and to make out the players names becaue of the "fuzzy" picture.

None the less, I think that the content was exceptional, espcially considering that it was another pretty card dead session. Bought up some interesting concepts, and I'm dling ep 4 now (got some cathing up to do...). Will be good to see some hand reviews too.

Definately one of my favourite series to date, keep it up guys.

I am sorry if I am coming a little later than others to this thread but I am a new member. Again, sorry if what I am going to ask has been discussed in future episodes. In the first three episodes it has been a common theme/idea to play exploitably against the unaware. I get the concept but when do you draw the line. There have been a few hands where, when you missed the flop and bet closer to 1/2 pot than your normal 2/3 to 3/4 pot so that if we get called down and lose we are losing less.

In these few cases you have been called on flop very lightly by A-high hands and sometimes even worse (Q-high for example). How often does this have to happen before you bet the same cbets size whether you connect with the flop or not? Are you saying that these bets are only being exploited if we are being 3-bet? Should we possibly be bluffing the turn if it comes a scare card like A or K for example?

I guess what I am trying to say is that when you bet less are you just natually going to get called on the flop much lighter than if you bet closer to pot? If this is true should we not be betting between 1/2 and 2/3 the pot more than 3/4 pot to pot. When you have aces preflop or flop a set, why bet so much do you not want action?

I am not critiquing here. I am a struggling SSNL player and I am just trying to get the most out of these. I'm gonna say sorry one more time, if these questions are too basic.

I really don't think that you are going to get called any lighter. The reason that it works to bet less is that the players are very unaware about your bet sizing. Their view is that they are going to either fold or call, it doesn't matter if the bet is 4.5, 5.5 or 6.5. So by betting less you are not committing as much to the pot, and improves your non-showdown winnings. As for betting more on flops that we hit, we need to do this to get all the money in by the river. For example if the pot is 7, we bet 5.5 and get called the pot is 18. The turn bet would be 15-16. Leaving a pot of 48. If we bet 6 on the flop pot is 19, 17 on the turn, a pot of 53. Leaving us in a slightly better position to shove (if stacks are full). So for betting slightly more we are going to improve our PT/BB and in the long run this adds up. It is useful to do this exercise with different flop bets to see how much it changes the river bet. Another thing to consider is what is the villans range? So what bet size will they call?

There is no really framework for double barrelling as there are so many dynamics to consider, flop texture, fold to turn bet, went to showdown for example.

I am sorry if I am coming a little later than others to this thread but I am a new member. Again, sorry if what I am going to ask has been discussed in future episodes. In the first three episodes it has been a common theme/idea to play exploitably against the unaware. I get the concept but when do you draw the line. There have been a few hands where, when you missed the flop and bet closer to 1/2 pot than your normal 2/3 to 3/4 pot so that if we get called down and lose we are losing less.

In these few cases you have been called on flop very lightly by A-high hands and sometimes even worse (Q-high for example). How often does this have to happen before you bet the same cbets size whether you connect with the flop or not? Are you saying that these bets are only being exploited if we are being 3-bet? Should we possibly be bluffing the turn if it comes a scare card like A or K for example?

I guess what I am trying to say is that when you bet less are you just natually going to get called on the flop much lighter than if you bet closer to pot? If this is true should we not be betting between 1/2 and 2/3 the pot more than 3/4 pot to pot. When you have aces preflop or flop a set, why bet so much do you not want action?

I am not critiquing here. I am a struggling SSNL player and I am just trying to get the most out of these. I'm gonna say sorry one more time, if these questions are too basic.

good questins mutley.

Usually the first time I see a guy i make a determination by his vpip/pfr to decide if he likely knows what's going on. For example, if I see a guy playing 22/17, i'm naturally going to assume that he's at least CAPABLE of having a clue, whereas if I see a guy playing 40/11 i'm going to straight up assume he has no clue. So that's the first step.

In generally once we make that step, we try to determine what we can get away with against each player. We're going to start off vs the 22/17 by balancing our bets more often and start off against the 40/11 by betting by hand strength more often.**** The reason we get away with betting a smaller % of the pot against the 40/11 is because our cbets against those players are mostly designed to get him off the "air" portion of his range. So when thinking of the range of a guy with a 40vpip, he's going to have pairs (smallest part), weak draws (a little larger part), and air (biggest part of his range), so by betting closer to half pot -- (especially on dry boards like A72r vs QxJdTd -- see why?) we give ourselves a better price on our bluff and therefore a higher EV on our cbet. When we have a set vs those types, it doesnt matter if we bet 90% of pot and he folds a lot -- why? because when he folds he has the "air" part of his range, but we maximize vs him when he actually does have something -- like a weak draw or pair because he's not folding those hands.

Also you do bring up a good point though, if we find our small bets are getting peeled more often (only one way to find out, right?) then you're right we do need to consider adjusting by either firing more barrels or by betting a bigger % of the pot to begin with. Again, it's partially an exercise in figuring out what they will let us get away with... and this gets us into all that "adjusting to the player" stuff that everyone always talks about.

Hope that helps a little.

Aaron

**** what you should get away from this part is not that all 22/17 guys are good thinking players and all 40/11 guys aren't capable of adjusting to your bet size, what i mean is that you have to have a baseline for categorizing how some unknown with these stakes thinks and acts... and it's much more likely that a 22/17 is thinking about whats going on (read: is more "aware") than a 40/11, so we base our defaults on that. As always, pay attention and see if you can think about what each guy is thinking... and if each guy is capable of adjusting to your varied bet sizes etc. it's not easy, but it's worth working on. This is part of the reason that you see most videos at other websites saying "well i bet 3/4 pot here because well i'd always bet 3/4 pot here with weak hands and strong hands and if i don't i'll be exploitable and they will catch on" it's the lazy approach to poker with some sprinkled in logic about unexploitability -- to which i reply "bullshit"

Thanks Aaron. That made good sense.

You need to work on the audio alittle bit. Wilt and jka's voice is really low and the other guy comes in booming....I find myself turn the volume up and down based on who's talking...

Good vid though.

Hate to see you run bad, but it does make me feel better to see some of the same stuff happen to other people that has been happening to me lately and to have the coaches verify that the play is correct despite the poor results.

Really enjoying the series so far.

My first post, excited about being a part of deuces cracked and I can see how it'll really help my game.

I been watching the videos in this series so far and I think they're really helpful. Watched a couple eps of the coaching tree too and there are a lot of ideas floating around that are similar.

I see you not raising hands like AXo or KXs a lot on the button, whereas in the coaching tree they recommend these types of hands with high value cards to open with on the button. Idea is that they have showdown value and will win more often than say 65s will. Also if the flop comes down KQx we can get good value from a Q etc.
So what's your rationale on these types of hands? Do you not play them because you simply think that they are a bit tricky for a beginner or do you not agree with the concept?

Also they advocate playing pots in position against players who you think are pretty bad. Especially when we're slightly deep stacked then it becomes more profitable since we can float more, and our implied odds go up a bunch with hands like AXs.

In relation to this point at 39:00 ish you fold A4ss to FastET's raise even though you have position and are sitting at ~$65. I would say that considering his low fold to 3b that maybe it's not profitable to 3bet since we lack some FE but his cbet % is only 44 over a relatively large sample.
He's raising 19% of his hands and has a 28% steal so I think there's value in calling and seeing a flop. Maybe it's because you wanted to go over the 45ss hand a bit more in detail but I was just wondering

In the 45ss hand where we river a flush you say it's definitely a raise/fold and I agree that we're prob not being raised with worse here, but at what point do we call off a shove? Ace high flush? King high? Ten high? etc.

*edit* - Editing as I watch more of the video lol, do you not advocate opening hands like Kx, Q7+ in the SB? What hands do you open from that position?
I also agree with another comment that you tell him what to do quite a lot more than letting him make a mistake and then talking about why it was bad or what you would have been doing differently. Otherwise it might as well just be Wilt playing. Even down to just bet sizing lol.

you brought up a lot of various points in this post so i'll try to make a bit of a general reply to hit them.

I think raising hands like Ax and Kx as a newbie to 6max NL is ok on the button provided that the peoeple in the blinds either have a reasonable fold to cbet% or they simply don't defend much. While it's true those have some showdown value and therefore with position we can get to showdown with the best hand a lot, it's sort of a flawed concept unless you're actively checking back a lot of flops. If we're following most standard practices by cbetting these hands on dry boards, it's not very often we get into a spot where we cbet king high and get called, turn is a blank and it goes check/check, river he bets and we call. Since that doesn't happen that much, it's less relevant that Ax and Kx have some sort of inherent showdown value. The more experience you get and the more you know about your opponents, the more hands you can play. That's nothing revolutionary. If you're new to 6max NL and you're just starting out, i think you'd probably do better by folding K2o on the button vs typical .25/.50 opponents.

for the A4s hand, if we're calling in position we'd prefer he has a higher cbet% and a higher steal % therefore we could steal the flop more often. If you're trying to make an implied odds argument then i'd rather his cbet be lower and his steal be lower. I'm not saying you cannot show a profit here, and I didn't re-watch the entire vid since we made this half a year ago or something, but it's not an auto call for most people learning poker at these stakes because they aren't good enough hand readers to get to showdown with the best hand/fold when beaten/steal when appropriate. If you want to play these hands to try out things, that's one thing, but if you're trying to teach people how to be solid winners when they are new to 6max NL then these types of spots are best to be avoided for most people.

lastly for your comment about what hands to open from the sb, if the bb is passive and sucks, i dont mind opening lots of hands, but vs anyone who has the slightest clue opening hands like Q7 and K4 are not going to show a profit for most people. Good players are not opening hands like A4o against me at say 10/20nl sb vs bb because they are at such a disadvantage oop with a hand that doesn't play the flop well against a player who is going to make their postflop life miserable.

Again, all this is general stuff, and as i've taught throughout both season 1 and 2 of RL:MNLG you have to try to figure out what you can get away with vs all of your opponents.

Also I don't really get all the "lol"s in your post. Maybe I'm reading them in a more negative light than you intended... but if you think there are some clearly incorrect plays in this video (such as opting to fold Kx from the sb vs a reasonable player) that have not been touched upon in the last 6 months of this thread then let me be the first to dispel that idea.

WoT

I count 2 "lol"'s and they were in the edited section. The first being that I was really into the video at the time and couldn't wait to make a post so simply posted before finishing and realised I had more questions after.
The last one I guess could be taken negatively but it wasn't intended that way. Merely just an observation and these videos as I watch them more are useful because of Alex's questions and comments about the hands.

So sorry if you got the wrong idea. I would rather question everything I don't understand than just sit back and accept these ideas as gospel. That's not saying I know better, I'm really trying to find out the leaks in my game and work on them and I obviously have some or I wouldn't still be in the micros right?

I think I understand why raising hands like Ax and Kx aren't as useful as I had first thought because of the reasons you state. So if we aren't raising hands such as A4o on the button are we making up for it by raising more connected hands? Say 9To or 45s?
I guess it also depends on who is in our blinds. If we have looser more passive players in the blinds are we raising more high card hands than suited connectors since they will fold less often than say tag regulars? We know that tighter players won't go to showdown as much but might 3bet us more so we should be comfortable with hands like 78s because we can call a 3bet in position with that type of hand?

In the A4s hand what types of hands would you suggest cold calling with there preflop if any? If we have a couple of high cards are we raising them for value against this guy even though his stats aren't super laggy? So for example would we be cold calling with QJs because it has good equity in a multiway pot or are we raising because he'll call with worse and we can isolate him to ourselves?

Finally back onto the SB vs BB. If the BB is a pretty good TAG then are we just folding it to him a lot instead of trying to steal? Being OOP sucks I agree so what types of hands are the best to be raising here?

Sorry for all the questions, I appreciate you taking the time to come back to the thread and answering them

Clar

Time Link to 00:25:05

Minute 25, (sorry, I edited the post and it deleted the time link)


Hi Alex and Wilt, when that 6c hit the river with your set and lets say villain checked to us on the river instead of jammed, would you advise just shoving the river for value, even though like you said everything came in? I'd assume yes since we ended up calling his donk shove for the price, than you.

Time Link to 00:35:38

Why are we folding T9s in the small blind here on table 2? I don't think the BB is a big squeezer, isn't this too tight to fold? Shouldn't we be calling or 3-betting this?

-TY

What a fascinating discussion in this thread. Particularly WoT laying his ideas about exploitability up against opposing thoughts on the subject.

Ultimately the correct play is the one that will work at that time against that villain. Not some preset idea about what is THE correct play.

The Jeet Kuen Do of poker... Bruce Lee's no-fixed-ideas approach.

"Be water my friend..."

Time Link to 00:05:04

One of my admittedly sad leaks at times - I've gotten much better since joining and studying more - is just hating the fact that I think I'm being stolen from. This has been one of my worst forms of tilt: just not wanting to be taken advantage of, bullied, etc. I don't want to think of that guy over there laughing about stealing the pot from me with a big bluff.

That said, I just want to remind those of you that have ever struggled in this area as I have that it is totally OK to let pots go like that, when you don't have enough information, or when other factors come into play. I know that over time missing out on certain spots can be -EV, but at these levels, most of us are learners (most of us at DC at least) and so it's OK to be "bullied" a bit. At this level too, these people will play anything and play hands in all sorts of bizarre ways, so waiting for more information is not a bad play.

Just sharing. : )

Time Link to 00:36:22

I actually cheered and applauded - all by myself in my office at nearly 3am - when I saw Alex win that hand. Go Alex Go!

Time Link to 00:15:22

whats your thought process when that 50/5 player shoves the flop on you?

Time Link to 00:34:11

Can you please expand on the concept of 2 barreling people with low fold vs 3B %

Time Link to 00:39:30

Are you just folding that A4s there because we're analyzing a replay? You're definitely wanting to take some flops with suited A on the button especially against the guy on your right, correct?

whats your thought process when that 50/5 player shoves the flop on you?

given his stack size and given that many of these guys won't just overbet ship with nutted hands, I'm not folding when he has 70bb and I have top pair and a gutter. While it's probably not unreasonable for him to play a hand like 98 for bottom 2 this way, i think most other better top pairs would be playing it slower and more nutted hands like the straight and set aren't typically just overbet shipping. So although I don't know for certain how this guy would play it, those general rules about how people view hands would lead me to not folding. As the stacks get deeper it would be more of a fold.

WoT

Can you please expand on the concept of 2 barreling people with low fold vs 3B %

The lower his fold to 3b% is, the more marginal hands he will have. the more marginal hands he has, the harder it will be for him to get to showdown when we fire multiple barrels.

In an extreme example, if the guy has a fold to 3bet of 95%, we would never even cbet much less barrel. If the guy has a fold to 3bet of 5% we would feel very good about cbetting every board and barreling a lot because his hand range pre would be so weak that it cannot connect hard with any board texture as often as someone with a higher fold to 3b.

WoT

Are you just folding that A4s there because we're analyzing a replay? You're definitely wanting to take some flops with suited A on the button especially against the guy on your right, correct?

Yea i think it was because we were discussing the other hand. The thing I'd like to point out here about flatting a hand like A4s here is we need to be aware of who is in the blinds behind us (how often we will get squeezed off our hand) and also we need to not just be playing fit or fold. I feel like this is a spot where some people leak $ because they flat these nice looking hands but they don't ever try to pull a move postflop unless they flop the nut flush draw. If you're going to flat these hands, be willing to try to float and bluff raise some to give yourself some extra earn besides when you just hit.

WoT

thanks for the response. makes a lot of since. That's a great point with the Axs hand. I think that is an area i really need to improve on and am definitely leaking money.

Time Link to 00:50:20

Right table T6s

If it wasn't raised. Do we isolate the EP limper w T6s OTB knowing that he plays fit or fold postflop? If so, how light we want to isol him.

Right table T6s

If it wasn't raised. Do we isolate the EP limper w T6s OTB knowing that he plays fit or fold postflop? If so, how light we want to isol him.

Some things I'd consider:

1) have we seen him limp/reraise
2) how aware/aggro are the people in the blinds? will they see the iso play and 3bet me lighter?
3) how fit or fold is he postflop
4) how loose he is

As long as those things align correctly, we can iso this hand and other marginal stuff like it. Mostly I'd prefer to have at least 2 connected or suited middling cards or higher...so this would be toward the bottom of my iso range, along with some stuff like K8o, 79o, etc