Poker Video: Limit Hold'Em by DeathDonkey (High Stakes)

Haven't watched the vid yet, but huzzah for limit tourneys!

gonna watch it tonight. I dont ever played any limits tournaments. But im looking forward man

Also happy to see limit tournament video!

More HORSE, mixed game tourney vids would be a great addition to the library.

In the AJ hand u talk about trying to decrease variance by for example not raising the turned A. Similar discussion on not 3-betting ATo. How far would u take this concept? Is it for example good to check back flops (I guess 22 vs Soulmaster on that crappy mono board could be one example)? Is this common knowledge for tournament players, so that they in general are a bit tighter, less aggro (well given what I sawin this vid I guess the answer is no)?

I have never played a LHE tourney, because I have thought it's just a big luckbox game. After Unassigned won both mid/high SCOOP tournes last year I became a bit less sure of that. Still it seems to me that if people can bust that means they must be very shortstacked and in limit that means almost zero skill. What are your thoughts on this?

Questions are for both of u !

I think checking back the 22 would be bad for various reasons, not in the least that I'll be put in spots where I'm unsure how to proceed later in the hand. I wouldn't really give up much ever, except when it's a spot where I feel like 'it's so close it doesn't matter what I do' where I'd take the conservative route. Also in this particular example you just take it down way too much when you're only 70% in equity against a bunch of rags so checking would be a fairly serious mistake.

Limit tourneys are obviously some luckboxing, but probably less so than big bet tournies as you're almost always at least 5 bets deep if the structure is reasonable, so you can play out most hands like a cashgame. Blinds and stakes going up continiously does mean that you have to run hot though, for obvious reasons.

The 5k limit was a fair bit softer this year than a typical 30/60 cashgame, and I think 5k tournies are higher stakes than 30/60.

I have lots of thoughts about "reducing variance" in LHE tournament settings. Mostly my thought is that it's usually sub-optimal and actually increases variance, but I haven't seen the video yet and am looking forward to responding to the individual analysis.

Mostly my thought is that it's usually sub-optimal and actually increases variance....

Increases variance or decreases edge? People routinely refer to lower edge as "higher variance" and vice versa (e.g., when NLHE first boomed everyone raved about the lower variance, but they really just meant that an expert has a huge edge over a fish. It feels like more variance if you win less often.

Still it seems to me that if people can bust that means they must be very shortstacked and in limit that means almost zero skill.

There's still skill in picking the hand that you're going to commit to for your (or your opponent's) case chips, though. The difference is, in NL that point comes with 10xbb or more left, so you're hardly doing any postflop play once you reach an endgame.

Increases variance or decreases edge? People routinely refer to lower edge as "higher variance" and vice versa (e.g., when NLHE first boomed everyone raved about the lower variance, but they really just meant that an expert has a huge edge over a fish. It feels like more variance if you win less often.

Yup decreases edge, increasing negative variance. Just using "variance" in the way a lot of people understand it.

Time Link to 00:08:08

I feel somewhat strongly that you should raise this turn against this player in any setting. I do feel like DD is somewhat correct that if you put someone like Unassigned in that spot, depending on what he thinks about you, you should probably go ahead and call down, and you should do that more in a tournament setting than in a cash game setting.

I'd like to make a little distinction here: I'd call down a little more often in a tournament not to reduce variance, but because the marginal value of chips changes as our stack size changes. FYI, I'm not brushed up on my tournament theory at all so that may not effect this decision at all.

Anyway, from the description of the villain I expect him to have a very large value range in relation to his draw range. It also sounds like he'll be showdown bound in spots like this. So our primary concern should be to extract maximum value from that thin value range and not to induce bluffs.

Time Link to 00:13:10

Re: A82r

I still think I'd be c/ring always there just because of the narrowness of the ranges involved. Don't forget we opened UTG so SoulMaster's range is likely to be a bit stronger. In reality people don't have a deuce in that spot or even middle pair and their c/c there is still super strong (aces and underpairs). People are rarely just peeling with something like QJs and if they are, that's just fine by me if I'm OTB given the way my range crushes theirs.

Time Link to 00:20:18

I'm totally with DD that folding is the best play even though he has tons and tons of bluffs in his range. I'm always callind down with Qdx though.

5:50 AJdd i think this is a standard turn raise.

13:00 AQo nh i play it the same

16:00 ATo nh i play it the same also. vs a tighter straightforward player who doesn't have a lot of bluffs in his flop c/r range i might consider raising the turn as a semibuff.

18:45 22 i actually prefer to fold this pf, especially vs a player in the BB who i'm assuming defends very widely, and as we've already seen fights for pots very tenaciously with a lot of bluffs and semibluffs. i find it pretty hard to bluffcatch with this kind of hand. not to mention also that the SB will be 3betting more than his fair share too, given his chip lead, our short stack, and the fact that he probably has a good image.

once he checkraises on the flop i would fold right away and i think it's strongly the best play.

meh i mean once you get to the river i guess calling isn't that bad but i just don't like getting there

27:20 AKo if i got raised on this river my first instinct would be closer to a 3bet than to a fold! in fact i think it's a definite 3bet. i don't see how he wouldn't have a worse king 90+ percent of the time.

31:35 T9cc if you're doing some kind of balance thing where you're going to be openlimping your whole playing range here then i guess this is okay but i would prefer just to raise. i am not a tournament specialist but i feel like it would be more effective to come in for a raise in a tournament scenario with limited chipstacks, as opposed to in a cash game. thoughts?

as played i like a flop c/r.

Time Link to 00:27:48

I just think it's funny listening to Soep's incredulity when DD says "I'd probably 3bet the river". It's like a really typical reaction that a big bet player has in this spot though imo.

Time Link to 00:29:41

The one thing I'll say about Unassigned's play here is that it seems like he has a good read on his opponent. I wouldn't be surprised if, from the way he's talking about the hand, Soep lays down a pair of jacks or queens relatively often in this spot. I also think it's really unlikely that we have a hand like KQ or KJ in this spot.

This really highlights another problem with the preflop cap in this spot.

Time Link to 00:41:33

Check raising is solidly inferior to bet/threebetting in this spot, especially against this villian. There's no reason that he won't just raise a lot of his single spades on the turn, as well as aces and even some random air when we bet here.

Time Link to 01:00:56

I would never ever fold in this spot. We still have the best possible ten and I'm not convinced that this guy won't bet something like 9T here for "value". This is also just such a strong hand in our bluffcatching range that I'd never feel comfortable folding against such a loose aggressive player.

Time Link to 00:26:31

Is there any merit to this sort of thought process: because unassigned is probably the best LHE player at the table, if we are going to play a pot against him we should go ahead and increase our variance a bit by capping preflop here with a wide range. Do we stand to be more likely to make mistakes post flop against him in a more bloated pot? Does it make sense to play a straight up game against him or is going a little wild this one time possibly beneficial?

If this is the dumbest question ever I would just point out the only thing I am worse at than tourneys is LHE.

Is there any merit to this sort of thought process: because unassigned is probably the best LHE player at the table, if we are going to play a pot against him we should go ahead and increase our variance a bit by capping preflop here with a wide range. Do we stand to be more likely to make mistakes post flop against him in a more bloated pot? Does it make sense to play a straight up game against him or is going a little wild this one time possibly beneficial?

If this is the dumbest question ever I would just point out the only thing I am worse at than tourneys is LHE.

I think what you're saying has merit, but on the other hand, its just LHE, its not like we should just roll over for this great player and throw up a white flag. I think your idea is pretty interesting though.

Time Link to 00:33:43

I am so happy that I watched this vid today and this hand came up. This is the exact situation I have been contemplating and daydreaming about for some time.

Firstly, I have been studying the idea of ol all hands, or some other sb strat that includes a lot of ol, against solid - world class players in the bb. CHECK.

Villain raises pf, as he will a lot. CHECK.

The board comes Ace low low two-tone and we have a strong draw on a wet board. Ranges are wide. Villain will give us a wide range that includes a lot of draws when we xr the flop. Villain must play back/semibluff back at us with a reasonable range because of this.

We have a vstrong draw w/o SD value. We should still have monsters in our range. Villain knows that we will punish a rebluff because of our knowledge of ranges, so we still continue to rep a non-narrow but strong value range if/when we take it to the next level.

I think this hand is a great candidate for xr flop and put in another raise at some point if villain plays back. I think this is one of the perfect hands to do it with: FD + good pair outs w/ no SD value.

LHE is fun imo.

Time Link to 00:14:53

i did a pokerstove on the ATo poss 3 bet against the 40 vpip guy and found it to be 58/40 so not that close really.
An easy 3 bet.