Poker Video: No Limit Hold'Em by Joe Tall (Micro/Small Stakes)

Thanks to all three of you for making such a great video.
I learned a lot from Haian and he was just the student! 1hr and 40mins and I sat glued to my screen. As an NL10 player I learned lots.

Just two questions, on the 60 mins hand AJo, you talk about the bigger turn bet. Would it be OK to just check behind on the river after making that bet or is that be missing too much value? After all we only have top pair.

The other question, can we get you three together again in the future?

Was going to ask if Haian had considered coaching, but I see from the coaching page he already is

Haian has grown to be one of the best poker minds of all my students. He thinks about the game very well and I would highly recommend him to any SSNL player that needs help. His $50/hr rate is a steal for anyone playing small stakes.

WoT

Thanks to all three of you for making such a great video.
I learned a lot from Haian and he was just the student! 1hr and 40mins and I sat glued to my screen. As an NL10 player I learned lots.

Just two questions, on the 60 mins hand AJo, you talk about the bigger turn bet. Would it be OK to just check behind on the river after making that bet or is that be missing too much value? After all we only have top pair.

The other question, can we get you three together again in the future?

Thank you so much for your feedback. It was great to learn from these guys, Aarron and Haian know there shit and I'll admit, I'm the underdog here!

BTW, the intro-story is 100% true, and, this was supposed to be released later on today, so next week it will run as the "LATE SHOW" with a 11PM GMT release.

Glad you enjoyed the format, more coming!

-Joe Tall

two thumbs up! great video

Honestly, I thought this was going to be a bit dull, but it was fascinating. Taking 10 minutes per hand you really get to rip each hand to pieces, which is great.

Also, the slower format let me stop the video and work out what I'd do before hearing the teachers' thoughts. Pretty happy I picked the AK fold, although it's one of those call-at-the-table-but-fold-in-the-forums type hands.

Great video, liked the slow pace. But:throw in some hands where either bad plays wins or you win in sticky spots. Not just coolers and stuff where after half the hands you think hero is gonna lose this one as well as that's how it's been going so far. Another positive thing is having Joe asking the kind of basic questions about NL as most players whatching this video probably are wondering the same things
as him.

please dont do that. At 11 PM EDT its already 3 PM in Germany. Wednesday! What I want to say: The member´s sessions reviewed by DC coaches are just great

please dont do that. At 11 PM EDT its already 3 PM in Germany. Wednesday! What I want to say: The member´s sessions reviewed by DC coaches are just great

Hey luce,

He's going to be releasing it at 11PM GMT (12AM your time, I think?). So yeah, it'll still be a bit late, but that's the idea -- it's a late night show.

Rob

Brilliant stuff. NH all three of you. Season three at DC is looking STRONG!

Joe,
I really like this format. Its pretty awesome to have three levels of approach to a hand -- player who is at the limit and making some mistakes but has a lot of experience on tendencies at the level and hand ranges to expect, coach who has beat the level and can comment a bit on adjustments for different stakes or if the hand had played out differently (WoT did a great job explaining what was the standard line in a situation/ why it was standard/ why you might want to adjust), and an experienced poker player tackling a new game enthusiastically.

I like your comments on player psychology (nice call on the value betting on the 56 hand by the UTG raiser we called with AK). I think you are nicely playing the role learner and the questioner, letting the coach "do their thing" and the player talk about the hand, listening to their whole explanation, then sometimes sharing how you'd think to play it coming from a limit HE background with a ton of handreading experience.

I like your posing of question: "what are you thinking about here" its nice its open and it lets the coach talk and player talk.

Its really new experience for me to have you be a learner. I learned a ton about razz from your video. Great Stuff!

Meant to include another highlight -- I like when you ask about a situation having the potential for a timing tell against a weak player. I think this was a great way you bring your poker experience to NL.

this is sick sick good, very cool indepth discussion

Great Video and the intro is awesome

Hi guys

About the AJ hand where he shoves on the river.

Do you usually go for 3 streets of value in these spots against anyone but massive fish. My normal play would be to check the turn for pot control which would mean we could get to showdown cheaper, snap off a river bluff and get one more street of value from a raggy ace. Also this strategy minimises our losses when he has out flopped us.

Thoughts?

Great format simply because Joe Tall is asking all the right questions I'd ask and getting good answers. One can really learn a lot from this series by re-watching and making copious notes.

When of the best vids I've watched so far. I love this site.

This was a great video. I agree with whoever mentioned the three levels of poker thinking being great for discussion.

Great video, just phenomenal.

You should make this one of the freebies to non members because if I saw this it would convince me to sign up.

I love three voices on the hand and I love the deep dissection. It's just high quality all the way.

Hi guys

About the AJ hand where he shoves on the river.

Do you usually go for 3 streets of value in these spots against anyone but massive fish. My normal play would be to check the turn for pot control which would mean we could get to showdown cheaper, snap off a river bluff and get one more street of value from a raggy ace. Also this strategy minimises our losses when he has out flopped us.

Thoughts?

I have the exact thinking here. It is only a pair J, would it be wrong to check the turn to get some pot control?

I loved this vid seen it last night got thinking today, there all big hands big dicisions the go 1 way or the other we see so much of these i think we know it even if we cant pratice it.. i/we would love to see the 20-40 bb pots done like this, I think its where we as ssnl players lose the money. Like OOP play not only big hand , like when u raise with a good hand. Not a premium. I think thats what faults us all as ssnl players. I really liked this alot tho.

Very nice vid guys! GJ

Just one Q about the vid, regarding the AK on 66J/K/7 board hand. When we peel and get the K turn, would it be bad to raise the turn and maybe check behind the river?

Very nice vid guys! GJ

Just one Q about the vid, regarding the AK on 66J/K/7 board hand. When we peel and get the K turn, would it be bad to raise the turn and maybe check behind the river?

Yes it would be bad to raise the turn because a raise severely overrepresents our hand, it would be more a bluff than a value bet and we're good often enough to just call. Also if we raise it's with the intention of getting it all-in and raise/call would be vastly -EV. It's much better to call and bet the river if checked to than raising and blowing him off all his worse hands and getting action from his stronger ones.

Thanks for the good feedback guys, we're really happy to see that you like it!

Hi guys

About the AJ hand where he shoves on the river.

Do you usually go for 3 streets of value in these spots against anyone but massive fish. My normal play would be to check the turn for pot control which would mean we could get to showdown cheaper, snap off a river bluff and get one more street of value from a raggy ace. Also this strategy minimises our losses when he has out flopped us.

Thoughts?

You absolutely have to bet the turn here because he will call with so many worse hands. First of all there are flushdraws that we don't want to give a free card, villain is not the type of opponent who will make a crazy bluff on the river anyways. Then it is very unlikely that he has us beat but he won't fold his worse aces and we want to get max value from them. You can still check behind on the river if the flush draw hits and adjust your betsizing there so that he calls with his weak hands.

I have the exact thinking here. It is only a pair J, would it be wrong to check the turn to get some pot control?

I guess you mean a pair of Aces? Or are you referring to a different hand?
When thinking about the strength of your hand, the first thing you have to consider is your opponents hand strength and then your hand strength in comparison to his. For example a pair of deuces can be very strong if your opponent's range is mostly complete air and at the same time you could be in a spot where it's correct to fold quad Aces because villain has a straightflush 100% of the time (not going to occur very often obviously ;-) )
In this spot our hand crushes both his range and his calling range so betting is mandatory. Against a player who calls too much and is probably straightworward/easy to read, pot control is generally a mistake unless you have a very specific reason to use that concept.

This was a great video, one of the best I've seen so far on this or any other site. I have a couple of quick questions:

1. In the 2nd (JJ) hand, Aaron mentions to bet and call a shove because of the number of draws and worse overpairs out there. What is the minimum overpair hand we should be bet/folding with here? I'm guessing something like 88 or 99, but I'll check Poker Stove.

2. In the 4th (AK) hand, I agree on the river folding rationale. Against what kind of opponent (besides a complete nutjob) does this become a call? I think I would still fold this against most solid TAGs and good LAGs, but am not sure where I should be drawing the line and calling.

very very good stuff. this haian guy was impressive, I wouldn't mind seeing him make a video on his own.

The problem with the bet/3bet line when you have AhJh on Jd 9d 6s was the initial flop bet, if he pots it (which he should do on a drawy board like this) then villains raise will be somewhere in the $24-26 range and you can push much more easily. As played, he should just flat call because stack sizes are too awkard. lead any blank turn and c/c any diamond on the turn depending on bet size.

speed - even if he raises bigger, I still prefer call and get it in on a nice turn.

tom - #1 my gut says i'd stack off (bet/call) with 99 there, but i haven't done any pokerstoving on it. i would probably opt to check 77 for sure, and possibly 88, to slow down the action with it. I'm not so high on bet/folding 88 there really... so i think i'd rather slow the hand down a bit and see if i can make a bet size/timing read to figure out what to do.

#2 The river would be quite different at the mid and high stakes against good opponents imo. Yes the better opponents will have more 6's in their range but they can also be value betting many worse hands, like a J/QQ trying to rep the 3 barrel, or a worse K for that matter. So against a good tag/lag I probably pay it off. acutally i think vs pretty much anyone except a loose passive or a tight nit i would pay it off, especially in a higher stakes game. At the smaller stakes though, where people 3 barrel far less and don't value bet thinly at all (i dont think a hand like AJ is even considered a thin value bet here by UTG), then probably you can reserve your calling for just lags who have a lot of K's in their UTG range and total mongoloids who could have anything.

WoT

p.s. it was a lot of fun working with joe and haian on this. they did an excellent job!

OMG WILTONTILT SUPASTAR!

Just in case anyone does not know, there is a pilot for this series.
http://www.deucescracked.com/videos/141-Late-Night-Coaching-With-Joe-Tall-Guest-Coach-tubasteve

This is just awesome. Probably the best video i have ever seen when it comes to in depth explanations and concepts regarding specific situations.

Great job guys!

Does anyone consider checking the flop in the A,Q hand??? I really don't see much value in a bet on this flop there. It's true that A,K has 7outs against us but it has reverse implied odds on the A so I don't mind giving a free crad to A,K there. I hardly see a hand that we beat call that flop bet.

absolutely awesome video, clearly one of the best i've seen so far. the three levels of comments are what makes it so interesting
really looking forward to next episode, very good job guys !

I guess you mean a pair of Aces? Or are you referring to a different hand?

I am referring to the hand where you had AJ, and the board had high card of J. If you the opponent calls too much then he could easily have had a J7, 38, or whatever and he might have hit a 2 pair. Or he was just calling with 33 and hit a set. Do these hands not worry you if you only have top pair top kicker?

Wow. Amazing concept.

very good vid

Finally got time to start watching this series. A+
Really enjoyed the discussion - it's a long video but flew along with

I loved this vid seen it last night got thinking today, there all big hands big dicisions the go 1 way or the other we see so much of these i think we know it even if we cant pratice it.. i/we would love to see the 20-40 bb pots done like this, I think its where we as ssnl players lose the money. Like OOP play not only big hand , like when u raise with a good hand. Not a premium. I think thats what faults us all as ssnl players. I really liked this alot tho.

+1 I think a video with few tricky SSNL spots in small pots would be nice although maybe less discussion will result?

I have one question about the betsize of the cbet in the very first hand with the power aces on that KJ3ss board. WoT you say that the first bet should always be bigger against fishes who love to call just once. Well I agree, but! Do you cbet less when you have air on that same board, say 3 hands later against the same player? What about another 5 hands later when you again miss the flop? Or do you make all these 3 bets almost pot-size? What I am basically thinking about is that 2/3 of the time you miss the flop and you might be better cbetting the 'normal' 60-70% of the pot instead of 80-90%? Sure you might say you can vary the size against bad opponents, but come on, I think after 10 minutes with the same (bad or not) opponents it's not that hard for them to read these 2 types of cbet-sizes?

I have one question about the betsize of the cbet in the very first hand with the power aces on that KJ3ss board. WoT you say that the first bet should always be bigger against fishes who love to call just once. Well I agree, but! Do you cbet less when you have air on that same board, say 3 hands later against the same player? What about another 5 hands later when you again miss the flop? Or do you make all these 3 bets almost pot-size? What I am basically thinking about is that 2/3 of the time you miss the flop and you might be better cbetting the 'normal' 60-70% of the pot instead of 80-90%? Sure you might say you can vary the size against bad opponents, but come on, I think after 10 minutes with the same (bad or not) opponents it's not that hard for them to read these 2 types of cbet-sizes?

balance bet sizes against good opponents not bad ones. try it out. if you've watched any of the Real Life: Micro NL Grinder vids I stress when you need to worry about balancing and when you don't.

You can say that after playing with a guy who is bad for 10 mins he will adjust, but i'm tellling you there are guys i play with (thousands of hands) at 10/20nl who still have not adjusted to varying bet sizes.

Try it out before dismissing it. Don't get caught up in the 2+2 group think of "OMG I HAVE TO BALANCE EVERYWHERE OR I'LL GET EXPLOITED!!!111" the fact is most of these guys, especially at these stakes, are simply playing their cards.

Hey Guys,

Great Video. At time 37:44 why do we choose to flat call instead of raise and get it in here when were ahead? If we do put him on Pocket pairs that we think we can get value from why not raise and get it in here before a scary turn kills our action? And since there are a lot of draws in his range why not get it in good here?

Actually I'm not sure if I agree about the timing tell comment during the second hand of the movie (JJ against btn raise from "inductive"). You guys claimed that he would call really quick with a strong hand that he is not scared playing with such as queens, tens, KJs etc. And that he would wait a little time with hands that he is not really comfortable with playing in a 3b pot.

I fwiw think that he would wait a litter longer with strong hands such as queens and maybe tens because he should be considering 4betting, checking out your stats and maybe decide whether he wants to stick it in if you would shove over the top. On the other hand, what I sometimes experience is that I sometimes start calling 3bets really fast with hands like 78s and T8s because my mind goes blank for a second and I hope to flop a huge hand/draw against a somewhat tight player.

Just my two cents