dzejkej
364 posts
Joined 01/2008
DiggerTheDog
697 posts
Joined 09/2008
Prologion
1866 posts
Joined 03/2010
Time Link to 00:09:33
Another great Vid - thank you very much
I would have a question on this one:
I absolutely can see the problem and the possible negative scenarios when a 4th Colour will fall on the river for all your reasons.
But I am anyways not sure if this problem is large enough to make on the turn imo such an obv. play by C/Jamming?
The thing is that his flopraiserange includes many many aircombos.
All this combos will continue bluffing on this turn.
-> hence it would make sense to B/Call Flop and C/Call also this turn for instance 9x9h,TxTh,JhYh, QxQh, KxKh,AxAh (btw.: for this reason I would probably C/cry-Fold on a 4th-Colour vs. a Jam).
Now: By C/Calling only here the turn with our present hand,
a.) there is a small chance (probably not a too big one, when he is not so aggr., but I would guess >0%) that he will Bluffjamming on a blankRiver vs. the mentioned part of our preceived Range then
b.) we protect here somewhat this mentioned range and can more often confidently C/F the river on a blank with these hands.
-> hence I think you can actually make some reasons for only C/Call turn though I am tbh of course not sure if this pro-Reasons are compensate for the Contra-reasons (possible negative scenarios on a 4thcolour + giving up our protectionvalue vs. AhYx and even Sets...).
btw.:
@dzejkej:
Don`t worry about your english, I suck even more
But who cares? We are men and from what I have heard, more often than not only girls are talented from their nature in such stuff like foreign language.
In contrast to this men are more talented on average in logical thinking...
I prefer to be talented in the last one - so what?
@ladies: No offense, Babies^^ - I have only heard this, so it is not my fault 
Posted over 1 year ago
Reply to Topic
Reply w/Quote
Hielko
Coach
4384 posts
Joined 07/2008
Prologion; You have a point that x/calling protects our weaker hands from getting bluffed on the river, but that's something I would certainly not worry about with this villain. A big part of the reason why we check/raise is that we do not expect him to continue bluffing a lot of rivers, if we would expect that we probably should call the turn (and not to balance our range, but just because it would get more value, balance would only be a side product).
Posted over 1 year ago
Reply to Topic
Reply w/Quote
Prologion
1866 posts
Joined 03/2010
Prologion; You have a point that x/calling protects our weaker hands from getting bluffed on the river, but that's something I would certainly not worry about with this villain. A big part of the reason why we check/raise is that we do not expect him to continue bluffing a lot of rivers, if we would expect that we probably should call the turn (and not to balance our range, but just because it would get more value, balance would only be a side product).
All right, thx for answering^^
Posted over 1 year ago
Reply to Topic
Reply w/Quote
dzejkej
364 posts
Joined 01/2008
z324739
388 posts
Joined 03/2008
Sounded Simple
Coach
988 posts
Joined 03/2008
Hielko
Coach
4384 posts
Joined 07/2008
DiggerTheDog
697 posts
Joined 09/2008
In Coaching Tree Series 2 Bonus Episode 10 I think - Baluga goes into a quite an extensive discussion of TT - maybe that will help with your thinking on 4bet small vs shove.
It is not insignificant to our equity for villian to fold AJ or suited Aces of Kings in his 3bet bluff range. Particularly if he never 4bet shoves them.
It did sort of worry me - when Hero kept saying oh I only ever 5bet shove the bottom end of his value range. Maybe I misheard.........but seems pretty transparent if 99-JJ AQ is the only hands he shoves and his 4bet small range is either folding or is nutted.
Posted over 1 year ago
Reply to Topic
Reply w/Quote
kagame
36 posts
Joined 09/2009
People will 5 bet shove much worse than TT here. A2 is actually a likely spew! When you cold call in middle position with TT here you are basically at the top of your range.
I was not at all surprised to see 88. Pretty standard hand.
What else is the 11% 3 bet coming from? I don't even mind the play with 88 because as I said TT is the top of the cold call range. I would expect to see AQ at best, TT and 99 rarely if ever. You will probably be playing back at his squeeze with scs, small pairs, basically air type hands if you are adjusting properly like was mentioned.
Basically TT is the nuts here.
Posted over 1 year ago
Reply to Topic
Reply w/Quote
kagame
36 posts
Joined 09/2009
I would like to thank Hielko and Deucescracked for this opportunity! 
Also I'm terribly sorry for my english, guys. I'm not used to speak english, so please make sure you are not playing during or right after this episode and don't spew off whole bankroll being on a "language tilt"
.
Just as an aside, I think you are a better player at these stakes than a player who may be more experienced who is coaching you and not familiar with the way this low/mid stakes game plays these days. If I were you, I would try to trust my instincts and reads. You are not just getting lucky, you are spot on in about every single hand.
Posted over 1 year ago
Reply to Topic
Reply w/Quote
dzejkej
364 posts
Joined 01/2008
If I were you, I would try to trust my instincts and reads. You are not just getting lucky, you are spot on in about every single hand.
Thank you for encouragement
.
I was "right" in hands that are in the video, but I've prepared more of them for the recording and not every single one ended happily
. What I wanted to know in the hands I've won was if it was just a FPS and I was lucky to run into a tilting opponent or into the better part of their range or the thought process itself was sound.
Posted over 1 year ago
Reply to Topic
Reply w/Quote
dzejkej
364 posts
Joined 01/2008
It did sort of worry me - when Hero kept saying oh I only ever 5bet shove the bottom end of his value range. Maybe I misheard.........but seems pretty transparent if 99-JJ AQ is the only hands he shoves and his 4bet small range is either folding or is nutted.
Yes, before I was 4bet shoving over squeezes with hands you've mentioned and also with some slowplays. Defending against squeezes in one of my weak areas and it worries me too
.
Thanks for recommending me Episode 10 of the Coaching Tree! 
Posted over 1 year ago
Reply to Topic
Reply w/Quote
DiggerTheDog
697 posts
Joined 09/2008
DiggerTheDog
697 posts
Joined 09/2008
zenben
1270 posts
Joined 03/2009
Time Link to 00:46:36
If you have the read that this player can get real spewy, what do you think of donking or ch/R the flop with TPQK? You run into a set every once in a while, but since you underrepped your hand pre, he might remove many strong hands from your range and put you on a lot of air.
You could also do something real crazy like minbet donk the turn-this always gets raised by monkeys!
Really though, checking this turn cannot be horrible. The majority of his air range is either giving up regardless of your move or continuing to bet, while his made hands are WAWB and aren't putting any more money in the pot on the turn. There's also the chance he gets suspicious on the river if the turn goes ch/ch, so you could overbet and hope to get called by worse.
Edit:with his high aggressive river sats, you could even consider checking the turn AND the river and get him to thin vbet or bet/ch/bet with air. This is much more likely to get called than when you donk the turn and ch/R the river.
Posted over 1 year ago
Reply to Topic
Reply w/Quote
zenben
1270 posts
Joined 03/2009
Prologion
1866 posts
Joined 03/2010
Time Link to 00:38:06
Definitly agree that folding vs. a rivershove on a blank is just the best decision on average, I would strongly guess.
I mean,
you definitly have flushes in your range (also exspecially bigger ones) and the average Villain should/will not continue bluffing here most of the time + after B/Call flop - large lead on the turn, he has of course many flushes in his range himself.
tbh,
when it came to the turndecision, I paused the vid and rly predicted that I would fold b/c it looks so strong and "flushy" (B/Call Flop - bomb 3rd-Colour-Turn).
But ok,
as you said,
QT is maybe possible for him (for your reasons) and his gap between VPIP/PFR is a little bit fishy...
So probably a turnfold would be too weak here - but vs. a nitty player, I would even find probably a turnfold vs. this line, in this spot.
Posted over 1 year ago
Reply to Topic
Reply w/Quote
Hielko
Coach
4384 posts
Joined 07/2008
If you have the read that this player can get real spewy, what do you think of donking or ch/R the flop with TPQK? You run into a set every once in a while, but since you underrepped your hand pre, he might remove many strong hands from your range and put you on a lot of air.
Think you really need a good read to do something like that, esp on this board where he could have top2pair and you also rep top2pair yourself so he should give a raise a little bit more credit than say on A72r. Playing it passive is also good for your whole range when playing an aggro villain because it protects your weaker hands from getting bluffed.
Posted over 1 year ago
Reply to Topic
Reply w/Quote
zenben
1270 posts
Joined 03/2009
Think you really need a good read to do something like that, esp on this board where he could have top2pair and you also rep top2pair yourself so he should give a raise a little bit more credit than say on A72r. Playing it passive is also good for your whole range when playing an aggro villain because it protects your weaker hands from getting bluffed.
That makes sense. How do you feel about the pre flop decision to flat?
Posted over 1 year ago
Reply to Topic
Reply w/Quote
Hielko
Coach
4384 posts
Joined 07/2008
Prologion
1866 posts
Joined 03/2010
Time Link to 00:57:54
Is it maybe a good idea as a default to play back vs. squeezes in general by 4betJamming a wide range, when the opponnent is squeezing a lot but, also folding less to 4bet and is capable of light 5betJams (for example: It is not bad, when we 4betjam 33 and Villain is then forced to fold ATs/AJ..)
And in contrast to this, owning wide squeezers with a foldto4bet_stat of for instance, let`s say 65%+, by small 4betting?
Reason:
Here it is probably valueable to have a bluff4bet-range.
Posted over 1 year ago
Reply to Topic
Reply w/Quote
1BYONE
5156 posts
Joined 05/2009
dzejkej
364 posts
Joined 01/2008
Kippers12
3 posts
Joined 07/2009
(minute 30:50) the 56s hand:
Thats an interesting question if AJ here is really stronger than AA. I agree with the blockers, but not with the outs: With Aces he has at least six outs for pairing the board.
Posted over 1 year ago
Reply to Topic
Reply w/Quote
Hielko
Coach
4384 posts
Joined 07/2008
(minute 30:50) the 56s hand:
Thats an interesting question if AJ here is really stronger than AA. I agree with the blockers, but not with the outs: With Aces he has at least six outs for pairing the board.
Yeah, with aces you will indeed have more outs on average vs 2 pair. You will have 3 outs on the flop and 6 outs on a blank turn. With AJ you will have between 3 and 5 outs on the flop, and between 3 and 8 on a blank turn.
Posted over 1 year ago
Reply to Topic
Reply w/Quote
infire
1424 posts
Joined 02/2008
Time Link to 00:31:08
I'm with you as far as the blockers go, but how much does that matter? It seems to me that AA has basically the same amount of outs against two-pair given counterfeiting turns, and more outs going into most rivers. And while it sounds pretty iffy/marginal to me from a frequency standpoint, as I am saying it, is there not something to be said for the increased likelihood that an opponent could be raising a dominated pair hand here when we have AA? Plus, versus sets we have two more outs than we have with AJ, which may mean something over large samples.
I feel like I'm splitting hairs by arguing with you that they're basically the same hand, rather than one being stronger, especially since they're both likely to be played in the same manner, but where am I going wrong?
Posted over 1 year ago
Reply to Topic
Reply w/Quote
Hielko
Coach
4384 posts
Joined 07/2008
yeah, I agree. The difference is going to be smaller than I realized when making the video, sometimes it is going to be relevant though (depening on what two pair hands villain could hit on a certain board texture, how light he can raise for value etc).
Posted over 1 year ago
Reply to Topic
Reply w/Quote