DeathDonkey vs. Joe Tall

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DeathDonkey vs. Joe Tall

DeathDonkey battles Joe Tall in this HULHE match -- featuring dual commentary from both players after the match discussing the theory behind making certain plays, how they adjusted and counter-adjusted to each other.

tags: deathdonkey joe tall 1-tabling ipod friendly hu hulhe $5/10

This Series: Duel

Watch as DC's finest tangle HU vs a variety of opponents.

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Comments for DeathDonkey vs. Joe Tall

InverseX
Pair of Deuces
132 posts
Joined 07/08

Thanks for this, I'd love to see a similar thing in NL such as FWF vs Krantz

Posted Aug 28, 2008 12:54pm

WuTank
Deuce High
6 posts
Joined 02/07

nice series start, now post the poo flinging monkeys

Posted Aug 28, 2008 2:08pm

Joe Tall
Founder
Quad Deuces
2058 posts
Joined 11/06

nice series start, now post the poo flinging monkeys



I tried to poo-fling with 65s later in the video, but DeathDonkey had none of it, and poo-flung back with a stone bluff.

Posted Aug 28, 2008 7:06pm

Joe Tall
Founder
Quad Deuces
2058 posts
Joined 11/06

I check/fold KK on the turn in HU LIMIT Hold'em and no one has a comment?

Posted Aug 29, 2008 7:43pm

MickeyWins
Quad Deuces
1520 posts
Joined 07/07

hand 1...DD , I wouldn't have given you two cents for those 88's if Mr Tall had been playing normal.
Mr Tall, you gave up too much by playing blind. DD is hard enough to beat under any circumstances.
Dont handcuff yourself, you are in the same league.

hand 2, DD , you explain why Mr TALLs 3 bet turn is perhaps not optimal, then you fold and make it optimal...interesting....

You two guys are both gods to me.
Its fun watching you play.
Thanks for all you have done for me.

Posted Aug 30, 2008 1:32am

DeathDonkey
Founder
Quad Deuces
2130 posts
Joined 11/06

Notice that my fold doesn't make his play "optimal" (though that word means something different than the way you are using it) because I would have bet any river card. So he was going to make 3 BB either way but he put himself at risk of getting 4 bet the times he was beat with no benefit.

-DeathDonkey

Posted Aug 30, 2008 5:45am

xrosswind
Deuces Full
675 posts
Joined 02/07

I check/fold KK on the turn in HU LIMIT Hold'em and no one has a comment?



Lets say DDs hand is AT, KT or QT (no heart), does he bet the turn with any of these when Joe checks to him?

Posted Aug 30, 2008 7:49pm

Joe Tall
Founder
Quad Deuces
2058 posts
Joined 11/06

Lets say DDs hand is AT, KT or QT (no heart), does he bet the turn with any of these when Joe checks to him?



My guess at the time was that he calls the flop and re-evaluates the turn on such a drawn up board.

DD AMIRITE? (somewhere around 28 mins, we run the hand 2x)

Posted Aug 30, 2008 8:43pm

DeathDonkey
Founder
Quad Deuces
2130 posts
Joined 11/06

I'd probably be more likely to raise the flop with top pair on a draw heavy board, knowing I'll get called down more lightly if the draw misses. I'd wait until the turn with top pair more often on a dry board. I would probably be tempted to bet the turn and then check behind on the river, since it seems like my hand would be worth one more BB but not two, and if I had no heart I could pretty easily fold to a turn CR. So yeah I don't think Joe's fold is necessarily good against my range.

-DeathDonkey

Posted Aug 30, 2008 11:35pm

danzasmack
Founder
Deuces Full
683 posts
Joined 02/07

Notice that my fold doesn't make his play "optimal" (though that word means something different than the way you are using it) because I would have bet any river card. So he was going to make 3 BB either way but he put himself at risk of getting 4 bet the times he was beat with no benefit.

-DeathDonkey



Why bluff w/Qhi in that spot? Given the 1st hand I really didn't like your play on that one.

Posted Aug 31, 2008 5:55am

Joe Tall
Founder
Quad Deuces
2058 posts
Joined 11/06

I'd probably be more likely to raise the flop with top pair on a draw heavy board, knowing I'll get called down more lightly if the draw misses. I'd wait until the turn with top pair more often on a dry board.



Everything I 3-bet preflop that you beat, checks the turn on a dry board, and bet-3-bets when you don't have it beat.

Posted Aug 31, 2008 6:18am

xrosswind
Deuces Full
675 posts
Joined 02/07

My guess at the time was that he calls the flop and re-evaluates the turn on such a drawn up board.

DD AMIRITE? (somewhere around 28 mins, we run the hand 2x)



Wouldn't this make it too easy for you to read his hand. DD is very big on having balance in his play, so I can't see him just calling flops on very draw up boards and waiting for a safe turn before raising with top pair type hands, and only raising very drawn up boards with big draws.

I suspect DD is going to raise this flop with a variety of hands, some of which will be made hands and others will be draws.

Posted Aug 31, 2008 8:40am

DeathDonkey
Founder
Quad Deuces
2130 posts
Joined 11/06

Everything I 3-bet preflop that you beat, checks the turn on a dry board



That can't be a good thing. My peel range on a dry flop is probably any 2 cards, I will be very happy in general for free cards on the turn.

and bet-3-bets when you don't have it beat.



Well yeah, when top pair with a good kicker is beat in a heads up pot it can get costly. That's certainly always going to be the case. But perhaps after playing more with you I would be able to make monster laydowns in that spot that are super exploitable but perhaps way +EV if what you are saying is typically true. Fwiw I think you 3 bet the turn with more hands than you think (JT of hearts hand is a good example) though that's not necessarily always a good thing.

Why bluff w/Qhi in that spot? Given the 1st hand I really didn't like your play on that one.



Chuck, we can debate the play on its own for sure, but I don't see why using the first hand as a reference is helpful? Joe makes a play like that on the first hand to specifically try to build an image, but the reality is I often had lots of fold equity, I just always happened to have him beat when he was making big laydowns in this 30 minute match.

-DeathDonkey

Posted Aug 31, 2008 3:04pm

Joe Tall
Founder
Quad Deuces
2058 posts
Joined 11/06

That's certainly always going to be the case. But perhaps after playing more with you I would be able to make monster laydowns in that spot that are super exploitable but perhaps way +EV if what you are saying is typically true.



Regardless if you knew what I laid down, I sure wasnt going to bet-3-bet the flop and c/f the turn ever again.

Shouldnt you take free cards on a wet board too? (without a hand, obv)

Posted Aug 31, 2008 3:12pm

danzasmack
Founder
Deuces Full
683 posts
Joined 02/07

DD,

My issue was more w/bluffing w/Qhi.

Joe MAY on occasion have an Ahi when he c/r's this flop but most of the time he has a T, 7, or draw. Raising the turn with the intention of betting the river again on a bluff with Qhi really just puts an extra bet in with Qhi. I don't think Joe can really have Khi or Ahi here often enough and he is def. calling your turn raise a ton.

Posted Sep 1, 2008 3:42am