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Poker Video: No Limit Hold'Em by WiltOnTilt (Mid Stakes)

Time Link to 00:32:32

I play the hand the same way except when he bets 50$ into 100$ on river I Jam!! Would That be terribad?? On the river you have under represented you hand, he can be value betting lots of worse hands....How bad can a raise be here. What do you make of him bet sizing?? I am surprised he did not make it more like a Pot sized bet, and in the heat of battle I would have said that a 1/2 pot bet was more likely to be thin value and put him on A9,Q9...Yup I def would have jammed the river.

What if instead of J8 you have QJ in the last 6 handed hand, do you still fold?

What if instead of J8 you have QJ in the last 6 handed hand, do you still fold?

I think with QJ it becomes super close, I am still not happy in this spot, as this guy was super passive (which I don't think was mentioned), so you may still be able to find a fold. The problem we have is that there are not a ton of worst hands that he can have here.

Real Life NL Grinder Drinking Party! I am down for that! Dates please haha

Pretty bad to have a "Real life NL grinder PRO" edition finish with the PRO guy saying that he is going back to work... that's not too encouraging... the scope of this video should have been to show people that this can be done.. it doesn't do a very good job on the psychological part heh

Pretty bad to have a "Real life NL grinder PRO" edition finish with the PRO guy saying that he is going back to work... that's not too encouraging...

I am only going back to work for 3 months, mainly for tax reasons. I intend to still continue to play a lot of poker. Interesting I am on track to have my biggest month since going full time....

I am only going back to work for 3 months, mainly for tax reasons. I intend to still continue to play a lot of poker. Interesting I am on track to have my biggest month since going full time....

Sweet good work gogogo

Pretty bad to have a "Real life NL grinder PRO" edition finish with the PRO guy saying that he is going back to work... that's not too encouraging... the scope of this video should have been to show people that this can be done.. it doesn't do a very good job on the psychological part heh

Come on man, it's also called "REAL LIFE" NL Grinder. Would we have done better to try some cover up just to appease egos?

Cut Alex some slack please.

WoT

Pretty bad to have a "Real life NL grinder PRO" edition finish with the PRO guy saying that he is going back to work... that's not too encouraging... the scope of this video should have been to show people that this can be done.. it doesn't do a very good job on the psychological part heh

So you would rather have a series called NL Grinder PRO with someone who has already made it? and that helps the rest of us how?

Whiteheat and wiltontilt are serious ballers how dare you doubt them, plus it is a much better form then a highlight reel. I like how many strange spots come up and you get a better idea of game flow and adapting during games.
big ups for guys that manage to play poker for a living. It is really hard to play that consistently for long periods of time.

What's is/was your target monthly income for switching to pro? That is, the amount that covers all expenses of living (rent, car, payments, etc.) and entertainment.

Also interesting that you're on track to having your biggest month, it's probably the psychological relief that a safety net provides (job). With that in mind, before returning to a full time pro maybe it's best to have 9 months expenses saved up. (I'm not sure what you had when you first turned pro, I just use 9 as an arbitrary number as that's what many businesses use for 'cash on hand' ie. another variation of a safety net)

Pretty bad to have a "Real life NL grinder PRO" edition finish with the PRO guy saying that he is going back to work... that's not too encouraging... the scope of this video should have been to show people that this can be done.. it doesn't do a very good job on the psychological part heh

1. Alex is a waaaay better player now. Alex's progression thru the various series really shows. So props to Aaron and Alex for all the hard work.

2. Alex's self-confessed main leak is tilt (and we don't see hands that provoke that in the vids). Fix tilt and I suspect you have a pro level of profit right now.

WDYT Alex and Wilt?

If tilt is the main leak are there key hand triggers that could form a vid series? In other words are there tilt triggers that go beyond the "psychological" vid series and are more lizard brain triggers? The tilt we go on before we consciously recognize it?

That would be my only complaint about the series. That is, Alex's main leak is tilt but it never gets worked on in this series. I don't think psych work alone solves tilt as there are deeper triggers.

1. Alex is a waaaay better player now. Alex's progression thru the various series really shows. So props to Aaron and Alex for all the hard work.

2. Alex's self-confessed main leak is tilt (and we don't see hands that provoke that in the vids). Fix tilt and I suspect you have a pro level of profit right now.

WDYT Alex and Wilt?

If tilt is the main leak are there key hand triggers that could form a vid series? In other words are there tilt triggers that go beyond the "psychological" vid series and are more lizard brain triggers? The tilt we go on before we consciously recognize it?

That would be my only complaint about the series. That is, Alex's main leak is tilt but it never gets worked on in this series. I don't think psych work alone solves tilt as there are deeper triggers.

Get Tommy Angelo in for bonus episode!

1. Alex is a waaaay better player now. Alex's progression thru the various series really shows. So props to Aaron and Alex for all the hard work.

2. Alex's self-confessed main leak is tilt (and we don't see hands that provoke that in the vids). Fix tilt and I suspect you have a pro level of profit right now.

WDYT Alex and Wilt?

If tilt is the main leak are there key hand triggers that could form a vid series? In other words are there tilt triggers that go beyond the "psychological" vid series and are more lizard brain triggers? The tilt we go on before we consciously recognize it?

That would be my only complaint about the series. That is, Alex's main leak is tilt but it never gets worked on in this series. I don't think psych work alone solves tilt as there are deeper triggers.

You're definitely right. It's tough to capture the tilt on camera. I should have hired some ninjas to stake out his home in sydney with cameras to capture him breaking mice and calling off his stack in bad spots hehe

Seriously though, at one point we went through his database and looked for some tilt hands because we wanted to show them. What we found is that the hands were mostly spots where the answers were clear and wouldn't make for much interesting commentary (I should say, the answers were clear when in the right frame of mind). I agree though it's too bad we couldn't figure out a way to better teach anti-tilt issues in the series...although i'd argue that the better you get at poker the less tilt will effect you.

Later this year I'm planning to do a poker philosophy series where I'm going to talk about my philosophies on tilt and other poker issues, so hopefully i can try to work some of this series shortcomings into that series.

WoT

I play the hand the same way except when he bets 50$ into 100$ on river I Jam!! Would That be terribad?? On the river you have under represented you hand, he can be value betting lots of worse hands....How bad can a raise be here. What do you make of him bet sizing?? I am surprised he did not make it more like a Pot sized bet, and in the heat of battle I would have said that a 1/2 pot bet was more likely to be thin value and put him on A9,Q9...Yup I def would have jammed the river.

It definitely depends on how good/bad your opponent is. It should be a trivial bet/fold with worse 2pairs (for your opponent) on that turn/river I think... so if your opponents cannot make this fold then sure, go ahead and ship it in..but I would expect any decent player to be able to get away from most worse hands when you chk/jam the river.

WoT

What if instead of J8 you have QJ in the last 6 handed hand, do you still fold?

It would depend on our read if he is capable of slowplaying a worse 2pair on flop/turn as well as if we think he's always just c/c'ing 9T or if he's sometimes c/r'ing it.

If he's fastplaying worse 2pairs most of the time and c/c'ing 9T all of the time, then QJ and J8 are basically the same hand.

I would complain less about clicking call with QJ though.

30% of my evolution so far is probably because of the Real life series so I am not talking bad about anyone.

Just that I am about to make the same move and my psychic would have liked for him to succeed Anyway, thx a lot for this video series.

So I want to say something and I hope noone takes this personal. I don`t want to harm anyone, but I now few people are thinking like that and are afraid to post it here.
I think it`s very tough to make the decision to become a fulltimepro and it`s even more difficult if everyone can watch you trying it. I really have respect for that.
But two things I want to say:

1. In other places on the net (not here obviously) you see several people talk something like "This donk has stolen a great opportunity from people who would have deserved it". Well that is a little bit hard maybe, but it`s not that far off. Nobody deserves anything of course, but you receive privatecoaching from one of the best mid-high-stakes coaches there are, you are a fulltimepro and have nothing to do than to work work work on your game. But your results are break-even at best after 500K hands (based on pkt and other sites) and not only that; you are tilting away your money every second day. I never saw graphs like this before. Pokerskill is not only the technical thing, I don`t wanna judge that here, although I don`t think you can beat 1/2N 6max, but it`s also the psychology as you know. By that I don`t mean he thinks I think he thinks I suck, but just the ability to play a goddamn abc-game, without playing 10 tables, without tilting everything away, without thinking you can 3times overlevel a regular every hand. So as it seems (I personally don`t know you and Im sorry to say) you suck at this part. Being a Pokerpro is maybe not the right way for you to go. At the end of the series it would be fair to say: "I fail, I didn`t do it, I give up here." But you say things like, 3 months work only for taxes, time, bla, I will get confident in HU..... no you won`t.

That brings me to the second thing I want to say:

2. When I had to manage the kids-group in our chessclub one time, I tried to explain something like that: "See, in the sicilian defence when you play as white you have to goddamn attack. Take the center, sacrifice a knight on e6, rush forward, because in the endgame you have a significant disadvantage because you are missing a central pawn." A week later they all could tell me what I tought them, rush, take the center, attack.... so what was the next move they made? 2. h3?!
What I want to say by this: What is the point in talking about reraise-bluff a River against a reg, because you are on level 4 and he is on level 3 and his range is capped and he assumes you are not capable of bluffing and your history says bla bla bla bla bla......blabla?
I like it. I like to hear that and learn from it if someone like Wilt talks about that. But in this series, where it is all about getting someone to make a little bit of money on 1/2NL or even lower, it`s absolutely not at the right place. How does this change the winrate of WhiteHeatSYD? 0.03% maybe? All the time WHS says something pseudo-intelligent like "I could make it 8 instead of 7 here, because Im representing a much stronger range, blablubbblablubb", but he doesn`t understand what he says, he just repeats and that is so obvious in a lot of the episodes.
In the second week with the chessgroup I wanted to explain why you cannot play Nb3 after Qxb2 in the Najdorf-sicilian, because of a lack in developement, but instead I started with something like "the bishop moves diagonal" and Im sure that was the better way to go.
I did like some hands, but they had nothing to do with this series.

So, although I know a lot of people (also on this site) think like that, this is only my personal and honest opinion and I hope you guys forgive me for telling you all that.

So I want to say something and I hope noone takes this personal. I don`t want to harm anyone, but I now few people are thinking like that and are afraid to post it here.
I think it`s very tough to make the decision to become a fulltimepro and it`s even more difficult if everyone can watch you trying it. I really have respect for that.
But two things I want to say:

1. In other places on the net (not here obviously) you see several people talk something like "This donk has stolen a great opportunity from people who would have deserved it". Well that is a little bit hard maybe, but it`s not that far off. Nobody deserves anything of course, but you receive privatecoaching from one of the best mid-high-stakes coaches there are, you are a fulltimepro and have nothing to do than to work work work on your game. But your results are break-even at best after 500K hands (based on pkt and other sites) and not only that; you are tilting away your money every second day. I never saw graphs like this before. Pokerskill is not only the technical thing, I don`t wanna judge that here, although I don`t think you can beat 1/2N 6max, but it`s also the psychology as you know. By that I don`t mean he thinks I think he thinks I suck, but just the ability to play a goddamn abc-game, without playing 10 tables, without tilting everything away, without thinking you can 3times overlevel a regular every hand. So as it seems (I personally don`t know you and Im sorry to say) you suck at this part. Being a Pokerpro is maybe not the right way for you to go. At the end of the series it would be fair to say: "I fail, I didn`t do it, I give up here." But you say things like, 3 months work only for taxes, time, bla, I will get confident in HU..... no you won`t.

That brings me to the second thing I want to say:

2. When I had to manage the kids-group in our chessclub one time, I tried to explain something like that: "See, in the sicilian defence when you play as white you have to goddamn attack. Take the center, sacrifice a knight on e6, rush forward, because in the endgame you have a significant disadvantage because you are missing a central pawn." A week later they all could tell me what I tought them, rush, take the center, attack.... so what was the next move they made? 2. h3?!
What I want to say by this: What is the point in talking about reraise-bluff a River against a reg, because you are on level 4 and he is on level 3 and his range is capped and he assumes you are not capable of bluffing and your history says bla bla bla bla bla......blabla?
I like it. I like to hear that and learn from it if someone like Wilt talks about that. But in this series, where it is all about getting someone to make a little bit of money on 1/2NL or even lower, it`s absolutely not at the right place. How does this change the winrate of WhiteHeatSYD? 0.03% maybe? All the time WHS says something pseudo-intelligent like "I could make it 8 instead of 7 here, because Im representing a much stronger range, blablubbblablubb", but he doesn`t understand what he says, he just repeats and that is so obvious in a lot of the episodes.
In the second week with the chessgroup I wanted to explain why you cannot play Nb3 after Qxb2 in the Najdorf-sicilian, because of a lack in developement, but instead I started with something like "the bishop moves diagonal" and Im sure that was the better way to go.
I did like some hands, but they had nothing to do with this series.

So, although I know a lot of people (also on this site) think like that, this is only my personal and honest opinion and I hope you guys forgive me for telling you all that.

I think that this is a very fair post and an honest view on it. I don't actually have to defend myself here, but think that it is fair that I give my point of view on the whole experience.

Did I take an opportunity away from someone else?
Maybe I did, but you need to consider that my application was stronger than everyone elses, I had a dream of playing poker full time, and was able to present my case stronger than anyone else. I don't think many people would of put the time and effort into it as I did.

Have I failed?
I am a very competitive person, and want to suceed so much. Maybe in this case I wanted it to much. You would not believe how much time and effort I have put into the mental side of the game. I have spent a lot of time thinking and trying to rationalise why it went wrong and I tilt so much. I have done a lot of soul searching recently in to this, and having an opportunity and not suceeding has been a lot to take. By having a world class coach doesn't instantly make you tiger woods. I honestly am pretty low on life at the moment, due to not progressing as I should, going back to work, and the constant bullshit that I get from the 2+2 crowd and comments that people are willing to make. It is very easy to hide behind the internet, not many are able to be honest with their failings. Poker is a brutal game, and I was willing to put myself out in public and expose everyting. This is what thing that I completely under estimated. I hate playing on ftp for this reason. I never stressed or felt pressure of poker before the first series. Aaron put some much time and faith into me, and I am gutted that I haven't been able to make the leap to professional at the moment in time. It would be foolish for me not to take a contract role till the end of the financial year. Near zero tax, and variance free money.....

But you say things like, 3 months work only for taxes, time, bla, I will get confident in HU..... no you won`t.

If you read my blog I said that I didn't expect to play full time again, I am in a position I can work for 3 months, and then take some more time to decide what to do. I may not of explained this very well in the video.

http://whiteheatsyd.blogspot.com/2010/02/going-back-to-work.html

J.D. I wanted to suceed so much, and am gutted I haven't.

I actually hope to fade into to the background now. Get a job, not play any poker for a month and then just play poker for fun for a few months, no results updates, no blog updates, no ftp. Then decided if I want to carry on.

Adios amigos - GL to everyone on DC, and thank you for your support.

PS - I don't want this thread to turn into an arguement with J.D. he has made some valid points, maybe delivered in the wrong way. Also if you feel that strongly about it, don't watch the series.

JD I think you are being results-oriented about your views on the series. The goal was to take your average poker player, and have one of the best coaches mentor him and see how far he can go. Just because he isn't where you pictured him to be doesn't mean the series was a failure.

If anything the series is better the way it turned out, I have mad respect for Whiteheat and Wiltontilt for doing the series, it exposes the harsh realities of what it means to try to play for a living, and if anything I learn more from Whiteheat's mistakes than I would if he were playing every hand correctly and not tilting, it would make for a pretty boring series.

Do you really think if another 25nl or microstakes DC member was chosen for season 1 the series would have ended differently? I would say that the vast majority of people are going to struggle greatly. Just because we have all taken the greatest leap of all by signing up for DC does not guarantee success. It still doesn't change the fact that 99% of people are losing players. They did not waste a whole series on someone who "didn't deserve it".

JD I think you are being results-oriented about your views on the series. The goal was to take your average poker player, and have one of the best coaches mentor him and see how far he can go. Just because he isn't where you pictured him to be doesn't mean the series was a failure.

Maybe Im a little bit results-oriented here, but the result is that there is not one single stake where WHS has made money, not even 50NL and that was over a pretty big samplesize.

If anything the series is better the way it turned out, I have mad respect for Whiteheat and Wiltontilt for doing the series, it exposes the harsh realities of what it means to try to play for a living, and if anything I learn more from Whiteheat's mistakes than I would if he were playing every hand correctly and not tilting, it would make for a pretty boring series.

So do I !! I have a lot of respect for him and Wilt, of course I do. But as I said, WHS didn`t made the big mistakes in the hands that were discussed where it was all about strange Riverbluffs or about tricky Flop-lead-lines. And by discussing them all the time, WHS denied that his leaks were much more fundamental; and that didn`t fit the charakter the series was meant to be I think. (is that a sentence at all?)

Do you really think if another 25nl or microstakes DC member was chosen for season 1 the series would have ended differently?

Yes I do. Even today in the brutal, hard, difficult.... times we are in, it is still no big deal to be a winning player on 50NL. That is without a great coach, without any coach at all, just by reading 3 books, play and post some hands in a forum. Am I really that wrong here?



I believe the real problem with the "stolen chance" and the very nasty comments from few people and the hate WHS has to take is very simple that TILT is seen not as a leak, but as pure stupidity.
We are all playing our C-game sometimes, but if you are tilting stacks away, then this is not because you didn`t work enough, but because you are just stupid and dumb. (At least this is what by far most people think, I guess)
That said: Everybody dreams of such an opportunity, such an unbelievable chance. If people now see someone got the chance and burn it by pure stupidity (tilt), then of course they are jealous and of course they start to hate the one who burn that chance.

So, I don`t. I just said the series was sub par. Anyway, in some way I learned something, I have great respect for both of them, I never wanted to harm anyone and it was very difficult to write that without using an alias.

J.D.

Think what you like a stolen chance, and what you will of tableratings being super accurate. I am not saying that I was ever a big winning on ftp. But what Aaron did manage to do was take a player who had $1k in poker, to someone that had just under $20k at my peak and was thinking about taking shots at 400nl. Anyway it is all irrelevant now, as I need a break after devoting so much time to poker.

I don't really want this discussion continued. Lets leave it at that.

J.D.

Think what you like a stolen chance, and what you will of tableratings being super accurate. I am not saying that I was ever a big winning on ftp. But what Aaron did manage to do was take a player who had $1k in poker, to someone that had just under $20k at my peak and was thinking about taking shots at 400nl. Anyway it is all irrelevant now, as I need a break after devoting so much time to poker.

I don't really want this discussion continued. Lets leave it at that.

That is success if I've ever seen it. Some people don't even make $20k/year here in the US.

Im talking myself into the grave here, but:

1. I did not say you stole a chance from me! I didn`t even asked for such a chance, you are cool, you did it. I just said I can understand people are thinking that way.

2. As you said, you do not have to defend yourself. You said you understand my point etc., but now you feel affected. Pokertableratings is not super accurate, but pokertablerating telling you made zero dollar in 500K hands is more accurate then so say you were somewhere under 20K BR, while probably 10K was Rakeback and bonus. Although this is not important for the videoseries and what I was trying to say.

Im talking myself into the grave here, but:

1. I did not say you stole a chance from me! I didn`t even asked for such a chance, you are cool, you did it. I just said I can understand people are thinking that way.

2. As you said, you do not have to defend yourself. You said you understand my point etc., but now you feel affected. Pokertableratings is not super accurate, but pokertablerating telling you made zero dollar in 500K hands is more accurate then so say you were somewhere under 20K BR, while probably 10K was Rakeback and bonus. Although this is not important for the videoseries and what I was trying to say.

You have had the last word now even after me continuely asking this discussion to end, I hope you ego is now sufficiently stoked, I feel pretty shit and down after the whole experience but it is always good for someone like you J.D. to put in the last blow. Thank you for that.

You have had the last word now even after me continuely asking this discussion to end, I hope you ego is now sufficiently stoked, I feel pretty shit and down after the whole experience but it is always good for someone like you J.D. to put in the last blow. Thank you for that.

let JD talk. He is just a kid that is mad he didnt get the role for playing WiltonTilts student. If he was that good himself he could probably afford WiltonTilt as a personal coach.

Don't forget you ran terrible at the first season of Micro no limit grinder. You have made the award for best student in a video, your questions have always been awesome and that helped the serie to become as good at it was. I am sure that a lot of people couldnt do this and you could. I am also sure a lot of people agree with me on this.

I don't know about your tilt and anything, but its very unfair for JD to say its just dumb and stupid that you ruined your change. Imo its not like that.

Like you worked extremely hard on your strategy, i am sure you also worked really hard to destroy the tilt. It didnt work out, thats all there is too it.

I am sure that after you took the break you will come back at poker, start out playing for fun with the knowledge you have and build your roll again.

And please stop caring if people tell you you are this or that. Most people who do this have some very big issues themselves and dont want to look in the mirror, thats why they talk to others in a bad way while saying they dont mean it in a bad way.

What i know from you, which isnt much, is that you are a guy that looks in the mirror and see what can be improved. Please look at your break as a recovery from a very bad period in your poker life. It would be a shame if you gave up entirely with all the hard work you have put into it.

You could even play 25nl or 50nl with a massively overrolled bankroll. Nobody commands you to play 200nl or even 100nl!

You have had the last word now even after me continuely asking this discussion to end, I hope you ego is now sufficiently stoked, I feel pretty shit and down after the whole experience but it is always good for someone like you J.D. to put in the last blow. Thank you for that.

This is not about my ego, but about yours. You are denying the reality like you do in the episodes. Why are you telling people you had 20K at some time if not for your ego? It must be possible to say my opinion. I never wanted you to feel bad and newsflash: it is not my fault.

let JD talk. He is just a kid that is mad he didnt get the role for playing WiltonTilts student. If he was that good himself he could probably afford WiltonTilt as a personal coach.

Don't forget you ran terrible at the first season of Micro no limit grinder. You have made the award for best student in a video, your questions have always been awesome and that helped the serie to become as good at it was. I am sure that a lot of people couldnt do this and you could.

I don't know about your tilt and anything, but its very unfair for JD to say its just dumb and stupid that you ruined your change. Imo its not like that.

Like you worked extremely hard on your strategy, i am sure you also worked really hard to destroy the tilt. It didnt work out, thats all there is too it.

I am sure that after you took the break you will come back at poker, start out playing for fun with the knowledge you have and build your roll again.

And please stop caring if people tell you you are this or that. Most people who do this have some very big issues themselves and dont want to look in the mirror, thats why they talk to others in a bad way while saying they dont mean it in a bad way.

What i know from you, which isnt much, is that you are a guy that looks in the mirror and see what can be improved.

So, let me say this as clear as possible: If you want to join a discussion, then read the fuck what was said so far and don`t try to come with some random shit.
Im not a kid
I can afford a coach
I did not say WHS is dumb and stupid I said: a lot of people see monkeytilt as dumb and stupid.
This was never meant to be personal, so try to behave like you were older than 12 years.

This is not about my ego, but about yours. You are denying the reality like you do in the episodes. Why are you telling people you had 20K at some time if not for your ego? It must be possible to say my opinion. I never wanted you to feel bad and newsflash: it is not my fault.

i'm pretty sure he's not lying about his bankroll if that's what you are implying...

J.D I have constantly tried to close this discussion, you have obviously taken a personal view of what is going on. If you read my post that I directed you to on my blog, I said that I doubt I would play poker full time again. I am sure that if you ask any of the many DC members I know personally I don't have an ego. What more do you want from me? I talked quite openly about my tilt problems etc.

i'm pretty sure he's not lying about his bankroll if that's what you are implying...

No, I was implying that
1. it doesn`t matter how much money someone has, because this is not what the series was about nor what I was talking about and
2. this is not a very clever declaration. When someone tries to tell you you are denying serious problems, then saying "but I had nearly 20K" (which by this number of hands and different sites could easily be only bonus+rakeback) is nothing but denying, isn`t it?

He is just saying he made 20k at one point but couldnt keep the ball rolling. Thats all he says, what you make out of it is your personal opinion and whiteheat shouldnt care about your opinion at all.

I am not entering a discussion. My words where for WhiteHeat, because I respect him. I don't care about you, I never will. Funny though you care about what I say and you feel like you need to defend yourself.

I care because you were insulting me and in the world of adult, people don`t do that.

He is just saying he made 20k at one point but couldnt keep the ball rolling. Thats all he says, what you make out of it is your personal opinion and whiteheat shouldnt care about your opinion at all.

Again, noone is talking to you. Who are you, kiddi? Would you please start talking in a normal way or shut up?

I care because you were insulting me and in the world of adult, people don`t do that.

seriously lol

did I insult you? really? where did I do that?
Calling you a kid? I mean, the poker world is full of 20 year olds and you look to me as somebody with the age of 20, just not really grown up.
I am sorry if you find that insulting.

I am much older than 20 and you don`t have to care. And do you really think insulting someone is good for a discussion?

seriously lol

Why is that funny? This is not 2+2, is it?

Maybe its the fact that I say you are probably not that good. I think this is true because if you where you probably went trough a fase of bad tilt yourself. Or you would atleast have had so much poker expierence to know that for some people tilt just isn't something they can overcome.

This is getting boring. I play between 2/4 and 5/10 NL, not more, not less and I can make a good living with that. Is that somewhat important in any way? Is it important what you think I can play? Or is it important for how much my opinion is worth?

Why is that funny? This is not 2+2, is it?

its just a bit ironic. i don't see where alex has denied a single charge you've made against him, he's never denied he has tilt problems, etc. i don't understand why you're still posting. lets just end this discussion, otherwise i guarantee it will escalate and get deleted anyway.

I deleted my posts out of respect for Whyteheat. No need for a discussion with somebody who has his opinion locked in his head and isn't open for other opinions.

I am ending my responses here.

Great. Next time I want to criticise a video, I will certainly do it under an alias.

Great. Next time I want to criticise a video, I will certainly do it under an alias.

It is one thing to voice your opinion about aspects of a video series you didn't like or prefer they were done differently.

It is another thing altogether to say that a video series is sub-par because Whiteheat is a "failure" by your standards and then start quoting PTR and talking shit about his winrate and saying that it is all rakeback. Even if it were true, show some class.

Oh comne on, I never said somebody was a failure, that is shit.
And I just startet with PTR because you said Im results-oriented, I just wanted to say after 500K hands, the result is what matters.
Who is good and who is bad, it`s not important. What I hate is denying and always explaining oneself by coming up with new things that doesn`t make sense.
It`s ok now, as said, next time under an alias.

On a lighter note, awesome vid and I'm down for drinks in vegas.

Great series and good luck to you in whatever your future endeavors might be, WHS.

I enjoyed the series too. It has helped my game a great deal, and it has been entertaining to watch.
People seem to think WHS was lucky he got all this free coaching from WOT. The price he had to pay though was everybody following his results, and I'm sure that must have been hard. Most of the DC members don't out their screenname, that goes to show.
Also, this might be a partial reason for his tilt problem.

Perhaps another lesson to be learnt from this series is that you shouldn't go pro at too low a level, because the pressure becomes too great. That's why it's an excellent ending for the series, that WHS quits, or postpones the dream, by going back to work for a while. It means that even with a great coach by your side, you shouldn't rush things. This is important for all the people who one day dream of going pro: don't do it before you're ready.

a lot of people see monkeytilt as dumb and stupid.

A lot of people see binge-drinking and binge-eating as dumb and stupid but most everyone does it sometimes. Ditto tilt. If tilt were so easy to control/eliminate we wouldn't be a nation of fatties either.

Hard luck to WhiteHeat, hope things pick up for you. One thing I would suggest is not to give up on Poker completely. There's more games to play than NL. Maybe you should look into learning HORSE or something, it would feel like a fresh start and you may be able to deal with the swings a bit better in a limit game. Obviously PLO is popular too but as someone who seemingly doesn't handle variance or swings well that may not be a good fit.

The other thing I'd like to say is that this series concept is obviously very popular among subscribers and was very well received despite things not working out for WhiteHeat. Hopefully the fact that things didn't work out so well for Alex won't dissuade DC from doing similar series to this in the future. Maybe lessons could be learned going forward in terms of trying to protect the players contributing by only making live videos on a secondary account on a different site to their normal games in order to protect them from the unwanted attention and pressure. Though in the poker community that might only be delaying the inevitable.

Why doesn't this guy learn to short stack they seem like a perfect match

Less variance
Less tilt inducing (seperate from the lower variance)
More mathematically rather than feel type plays
Is willing to put in the time/effort/hands
"you can win more full stacking" doesn't apply

The only negative is stigma, but it sounds like you're ego is already battered. It might not be the dream he had, but it's a pragmatic solution.

I'm pretty sure shortstacking would have more variance but the swings might not be as big financially because you're buying in short. And without meaning to sound holier than thou or anything but I don't think recommending or teaching people to shortstack is in keeping with the theme of DC.

I watch vids to help me learn. This vid series helped me learn and what's more it entertained me a great deal as well.

If enough people were both taught and entertained then I'm putting this down as a top quality series.

Quite separately...we wish Alex well. Why would we want to do anything else?

I would suggest that his success/failure is totally irrelevant to the objective of the series and therefore much of this thread seems to be a waste of space.

If Alex and WoT want to do another series in a few more months then I'm a keen potential viewer...and if he can make some money then so much the better.

I watch vids to help me learn. This vid series helped me learn and what's more it entertained me a great deal as well.

If enough people were both taught and entertained then I'm putting this down as a top quality series.

Quite separately...we wish Alex well. Why would we want to do anything else?

I would suggest that his success/failure is totally irrelevant to the objective of the series and therefore much of this thread seems to be a waste of space.

If Alex and WoT want to do another series in a few more months then I'm a keen potential viewer...and if he can make some money then so much the better.

Thanks Harry and all who have provided positive reinforcement for Alex and me in this series. For those who thought we fell a bit short, i'll keep your comments in mind for future mentoring videos.

WoT

Whiteheat, this series was great first.

My oppinion (and its just 1 oppinion) is that you are doing the right thing by going back to work...

Why? You took the leap to going pro and it kinda seems that in your eyes you have failed. You have tried for what? A few months? Going back to work for 3 months is going to clear your mind and give you a more clear perspective on the situation. I believe, that within one month away from the pressure of 'being pro' you will dive right back in fully refreshed.

You stated that you put a ton of effort into the mental side of it but sometimes the only thing that works is some space from the game.

You absolutely have the work ethic to succeed in this profession. Take a break. You are only at the very start of your pro career. Don't take JD's oppinion to heart. Its only one oppinion. 10-1 will support you.

Good Luck!

dff

great series guys,
i really got a lot out of the whole experiance, great job alex and wilt

I hope alex and wot will somehow read this, I learned a lot from both series. Alex worked very hard and he improved as a poker player tremendously. There are probably thousands of break even/losing and even a lot of winning players grinding away who wish they could get a job making even half of what you make but they arent able to find a decent job. Many winning poker player have quit poker to do something else. Also poker is constantly evolving, you have already learned more than 99% of the players in the old Doyle Brunson days. Some variances in poker can literally last over a lifetime(its possible to be a great mtt tourny player and never win a tourny in your whole life) well anyways thanks again take care gg gl

I watched both series and I've learned a lot from it. Alex had very good questions and WoT's answers were clear and accurate and put order in our confused postflop mentality what a lot of us ssnl guys have. I think I made plenty of $ thanks to the knowledge I got out from this series and that's what matters, that is the goal of this site.

Thanks for the comments guys.

Thanks for the comments guys.

Agreed, good series, and especially the first one helped me a lot

WHS obviously pointed his focus in the wrong direction, if he ever watched Tommy Angelo's series and acted on it for at least a month I will eat my hat. He would never shut up about the brutal months and how bad he was running (he even said it in the last episode), and you should have slapped his face WOT as thats part of poker.
You got it in you, but there are people like WHS and me who need to learn consistency and to understand the stupidity of bringing in negative emotion because of variance by practice, and in that aspect you have not been the ideal coach for WHS.A former spazztard whiner turned solid guy without emotion like Tommy would do wonders with WHS (who now probably quit for good right?)

I would love this series to continue, just with a different pro - and please next time choose someone without a high grossing Job. A student dropout going all in at NL50 or from one of lower GDP countries would be really awesome, as he would have to win/get better or go to Maccy D's.
Someone with poker as the best plausible potential career choice would make a hell of a story.

I like this series. I just now finished epsisode 8 of this third season of NL grider, and I am now on the 5th episode of the first season b/c I joined DC only about six months ago. I am looking forward to finishing the first season and then watching the second season too, b/c I am learning quite a bit.

WOT and Alex, thank you for making videos that are teaching me how to play poker.

I think this series is fantastic. Thanks for putting it together guys I learned a lot!